Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[fangtimes]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)KingGuy420 said:

I don't even see these as nerfs necessarily. More like lateral moves that'll just change play styles.

 

17 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Cash201293 said:

I don’t think ppl are getting It. These aren’t even nerfs. I really don’t understand why ppl don’t like the new Banshee augment. These changes are good to these Warframe’s. The day that DE nerf fast nova is the day that we all riot.

These are 100% nerfs. By definition, these are nerfs: "A nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element." These frames excelled at specific tasks and specifically, those parts of the frames are what is being targeted. Chroma's high single target damage (to Eidolons), Banshee/Ember mass killing at their respective levels. It's not a sidegrade or buffing a different playstyle they are just making it harder to do or straight up impossible to do what the frames were previously being used for.

If these were sidegrades they wouldn't need to change the way the original abilities worked.

[Nez-Kal]

I for one am glad that I'll be able to enter a Fissure mission in the near future and actually SEE the enemies. Rip "Stroll on Fire", you won't be missed.

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

15 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Yes, she is scrap.
 

  Hide contents

Ummmm I never said she was crap. Also getting most damage delt isn't hard nor does it prove Mag is a good frame.

[Foberon]

We are still dont know if it doesnt allow you to move while hover without exiting the hover state  and the they said that she is still work in progress, plus we dont really know how it will work if you charge her first ability in the air, or even if it is allowed. So i of course suppport, mobile hovering and more interactions with her charge mechanic, such as increase hover time, castable in the air to refresh hover time etc.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Foberon

[phoenix1992]

Just now, (Xbox One)NeutralSilence said:

Ummmm I never said she was crap. Also getting most damage delt isn't hard nor does it prove Mag is a good frame.

No, it does not.

But it does prove a certain point considering buffs - if she does what she does now, would not be a tad bit overboard to buff her more than already stated?

[DrakoKnight48]

38 minutes ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

just add extra range  to offset ... also cast 2 to stun enemies. 

not complicated

the intent of the reworks is to fix AFK play style of press # and go afk

with it it makes it more challenging but not honestly all that hard to figure out a play tactic that can work

as one who dosnt use a meta build i actually have always played with the toggle 4 when needed rather then the normal press 4 and leave it on and use 2/1 to stun enemies [i find 3 useless mostly...] 

seeing this rework honestly just makes you have to change 1 or two mods to do as before 

but ill honestly wait ill it drops before complaining on this 

I don't you people who ASSUME every person who plays Ember is sitting AFK. I dunno who you're talking about but sure as heck isn't any Ember players I've encountered over the past two years I've played warframe. 

I'm actively crowd controlling enemies with her fire quake augment and running up to every single one to force 'em to give me Hek barrels a big kiss. 

 

This nerf isn't only reducing her range but also draining her energy at a quick rate. I've seen the work shop dev stream. DE Rebecca died instantly after her energy ran out. Ya don't need a brain to see that's bad on so many levels. That energy drain BS is the soul reason why I stopped playing Valkyr.   

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

 

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

No, it does not.

But it does prove a certain point considering buffs - if she does what she does now, would not be a tad bit overboard to buff her more than already stated?

I think making the rest of her abilities (besides Magnetize) actually good would not be overpowered at all.

[phoenix1992]

Just now, (Xbox One)NeutralSilence said:

 

I think making the rest of her abilities (besides Magnetize) actually good would not be overpowered at all.

The only ability I do not use during runs is pull, because it fits more into a Melee playstyle, which I don't see in Mag.
But never the less, the buffs are buffs to abilities that are not Magnetize, right?

[Vanillu]

5 minutes ago, Epilogia said:

Ember:
"[...] offering low survivability in exchange for high offense [...]"
"[...] anything under level 30 [...]"

Lvl 30. High Offense.
Is this Warframe 2013?

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a main build for her which is built for survivability and CC with the Firequake augment. This change completely butchers that. That was the only way to survive at higher levels, while dealing almost NO DAMAGE (with the warframe of HIGH OFFENSE, see the irony there, DE?).

It's gone now.

Same, I did that exact same build for higher level missions and DE literally just tore the majority of why I used her away from me. Me as a player I do not like sitting here and constantly dealing with toggling abilities on and off constantly, I want to focus on my aim because that's what I enjoy with shooting games. The quake with the augment would enable me to aim freely for the majority of the time. Essentially my main frame I used for sorties was just thrown into a trash can because of this whole damage fad I see with changes, since I stopped playing 2-3 months ago.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Range does decrease over time to half but damage doubles, I think it suits ember better as you can get burnt if you get too close. 

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

 

4 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

The only ability I do not use during runs is pull, because it fits more into a Melee playstyle, which I don't see in Mag.
But never the less, the buffs are buffs to abilities that are not Magnetize, right?

Yes, but they are not enough and one of them isn't even the right type of buff as I stated in my first post.

Edited February 3, 2018 by (XB1)NeutralSilence
Added two quotes

[Caelward]

I wonder what it would be like if WoF worked a bit like Speed Nova. I better clarify.

let range modify her WoF ability like a lens. Huge range lets her attack accross the map with lower effectiveness. Heavily penalized range lets her deal obscene amounts of damage to things directly adjacent to her? Just like zooming in or out with a lens. The wider the angle, the more you can see, but the less well defined it is. The tighter the angle the better clarity of the things you can see.

[DrakoKnight48]

I had made a suggestion on the warframe and abilities tab. I suggested that DE give Zephyr exalted wings and call her mashup of the two "Wings of Freedom". Where the grows out bird wings in the form of air (color dependent on energy color). While floating in the air holding down one while aiming at the ground would create a halo (in the coloring of your chosen energy color). This would mark the ground and after tapping 1 again she's dive bomb on that area, smashing whoever is caught in it. Flying is would be quick like Titania's fourth ability and as so cost one energy per second while moving. 

[G6_tempo776]

Buff the range on Chroma's vex armor aura. Leaving it at a 10 meter range won't do much for the squad unless everyone were compacted which is rare in a  game, unless you modded for Range, strength and duration. Still it wouldn't be viable with everything spread out into every skill tree, pretty much effectively making everything weak which barely benefits anyone. Most players would probably turn back to the old strength and duration build for the best results, making the added aura addition a waste of time on your part.

[DreamsmithJane]

Meh. Consistent mechanics are good for the long-term health of the game, and I don't see anything wrong with giving Chroma a reason not to dump his range stat. Banshee is getting buffed, but it requires a shift in playstyle for those that used Resonating Quake (and by that, I mean you actually have to play the game, not flirt with the AFK timer). Ember...well, that's a little more complicated, but you were never supposed to turn on WoF and leave it on for the whole mission, so people acting like the range was cut in half permanently have the wrong idea.

Are disruptive playstyles that undermine the core mechanics of the game being nerfed? Yes. And they need to be.

[phoenix1992]

Just now, (Xbox One)NeutralSilence said:

Yes, but they are not enough and one of them isn't even the right type of buff as I stated in my first post.

So let me clear this out.

Mag is already performing rather good, she will perform even better with the buffs, but you want better buffs, so we can enter obscene power creep territory based on your perception of Mag?

I am sorry, but I have to pass. Mag is good, she will be better and going further is just asking for nerfs on the few things in which she is already good.
 

[Caelward]

It might be nice to be able to differentiate between a sudden straight line burst of movement or a large overhead arcing jump by using a charged use of tailwind.

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

11 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

I for one am glad that I'll be able to enter a Fissure mission in the near future and actually SEE the enemies. Rip "Stroll on Fire", you won't be missed.

I I get tired of seeing many abilities, we could do away with the power fantasy all together, would that work for you

[austinfreak123]

I love the reworks but could we get also change chroma's passive, this element color change isn't much of a passive as more of just a mechanic of his. but again love the rework.

[ljmadruga]

The changes announced for all the warframes except ember (see: crowd controlling LARGER areas with firequake in HIGHER level content is a must for her survivablility) are for the most part pretty nice from a first look. Personally, here are some small adjustments I'd like to see.

Ash:The proposed bladestorm change is FANTASTIC and allows for multitasking on the battlefield. The only tweak I'd like to see is this: To opt into bladestorm, the player can teleport to a marked target while clones are active.

Atlas: I can't wait for these changes to hit pc. I'd personally like to see Petrify be changed to a one-handed skill so that Atlas can use his secondary or melee weapon, giving him some more tactical options. Also, I'd like to see some synergy between Tectonics and landslide, perhaps contributing some rubble? Finally, I'd like to see the width of the wall from tectonics be affected by power range.

Banshee: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Chroma: I'd like to see Vex Armor become refreshable. Giving the buffs to allies is a welcome change, but I'd like to be able to give an ally the buffs as soon as I see them, instead of waiting for the ability to expire. Also, I'd like to see Spectral scream be changed to a more utility skill that changes with each element. Effigy inheriting Vex armor buffs would also be nice.

Gara: Maybe take a look at Spectrorage? It really doesn't work well with her other powers and it doesn't do much on its own.

Mag: Cool, will need to see how the changes work out.

Volt: HALLELUYAH

Zephyr: She should be able to fly quickly and smoothly without having to recast tailwind. Also, I'd like to see the second skill become an AOE wind that ragdolls enemies within an area and tosses them forward like they were caught in a hurricane.

[Sajochi]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)NeutralSilence said:

Those are some good damage numbers in theory, however in actual gameplay

In actual gameplay, like the third sortie, kuva floods and beyond 60 minute survivals, those numbers get higher. That's something that can be done consistently with very little practice. You want to make the drain a percentage that further gets multiplied with both the ability multiplier and enemy density. You sure that's a good idea?

[Shaw1996]

5 hours ago, fatpig84 said:

Basically Rebecca ran faced first into the problem.
They were only at MOT and Ember gets 1 shotted after Fire Quake is gone.
MOT is not even Sortie 1 level.

This will happen far more frequently with propose changes.

 

The amount of damage the enemies in MOT do would be like Sortie 4. So that's why she got killed.

[(PSN)KingGuy420]

9 minutes ago, fangtimes said:

 

These are 100% nerfs. By definition, these are nerfs: "A nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element." These frames excelled at specific tasks and specifically, those parts of the frames are what is being targeted. Chroma's high single target damage (to Eidolons), Banshee/Ember mass killing at their respective levels. It's not a sidegrade or buffing a different playstyle they are just making it harder to do or straight up impossible to do what the frames were previously being used for.

If these were sidegrades they wouldn't need to change the way the original abilities worked.

Yeah, except Ember is going to be drastically more viable at higher levels. Chroma is going to give the whole team a damage boost that'll probably equal out to the same or more damage overall. And Banshee will now be able to gun while using quake, which will most likely allow her to put out more overall damage. But yeah, nerfs apparently. 

It's changing their functions, not nerfing them.

[CryoSpecter]

20 minutes ago, DrakoKnight48 said:

I mainly use Ember for her CC ability. Anything over lvl 50 will only cause minor burning. That's why I use the Firequake mod to CC enemies. I dunno about anyone else but I'm not gonna their play their play styles. When you're forced to grind endlessly doing the same mission over and over again, you want that mission done quick and fast. And as a solo player this is my preferred farming method.

 

 The trade off is punishing players for using Ember's single most used and known ability. And what excatly are we getting in return for this? Nothing. May I remind you how squishy ember is? During the Work Shop stream DE Rebecca died immediately once her energy ran out.  

 

Why should we be forced to turn it off at all? Keep it the way it is currently. What's the point on having high damage if you need to be in smooching range of an enemy to hurt them? Try walking up to a bombard or a high level corrupted gunner. They'll have a field day spamming knock downs and rockets in Ember's face. 

Reb was running Mot, which has a damage multiplier attached to it. Also we are getting double damage in exchange. And as has been continuously stated, they want the game to be interactive, not press a button and leave it. Also, one of my original suggestions for decreasing range was damage reduction to compensate for the fact that she will become close quarters.

This thread is meant as a discussion of suggestions for how to help better implement the changes they have in mind, not complain without offering any real solutions or compromises.

[Nez-Kal]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)DevilishSix said:

I I get tired of seeing many abilities, we could do away with the power fantasy all together, would that work for you

Eh, I'm up for it, sure. I'm the one who WANTS Operator Only Missions, remember. Be a nice change of pace.