Chroma & Ember: The 'Destiny' treatment

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

   While these two Warframes are frowned on by players who weren't constantly defeated by someone using Ember nor Chroma in Conclave, there is the trend of reworking characters in the PvE area through a trend. These two characters are useful in team composition for team play, solo play in PvE, and infinite scaling enemies. Here and there complaints were posted on the Forums by players making a argument when they played public matchmaking in PvE with a random player who had used  Ember and any other characters in their match. From the same crowd who made these complaints on the Forums they have voiced their complaints in serveral other games to push for the game to be unplayable for the majority of the people. The same complaints will continue, even after the rework attempts to make some abilities more active.

[Entharias]

Chroma 'nerf' was needed, since he outclassed most of buffers.
Ember nerf was needed, since she made public matching hell for new players, and even old ones.

Remember, this is a game, people come here to have fun, not to see an Ember jump around and oneshotting every mob, ruining the fun for everyone else.

And quit hiding behind the 'PVE' excuse, it's old and dumb.
 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Nakrast

[LSG501]

Don't worry, they'll find a new frame or maybe a weapon they want to be nerfed as soon as the current targets get their 'rework' and players move on to an alternative. 

All the calls for nerfs really does make it feel like certain players want waframe to just be a gun and melee type game without any abilities at times...

Edited February 4, 2018 by LSG501

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Last I saw, no one was complaining about the Chroma Vex Armor. DE just stated that they made a mistake in the initial calculation, but left it alone because it was massive overkill. They only changed it because it made Eidolon hunts trivial.

Ember's case is thus: People play Warframe to be Space Ninjas. Not play "Futuristic Walking Simulator" because a max range WoF Ember removed every enemy on the map before they even saw it.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

5 minutes ago, Xana_Skullsunder said:

Last I saw, no one was complaining about the Chroma Vex Armor. DE just stated that they made a mistake in the initial calculation, but left it alone because it was massive overkill. They only changed it because it made Eidolon hunts trivial.

Ember's case is thus: People play Warframe to be Space Ninjas. Not play "Futuristic Walking Simulator" because a max range WoF Ember removed every enemy on the map before they even saw it.

Many perspectives come together. When people get excited for some challenges in the game there will be some regrets for flexibility lost in some places.

[Urlan]

I would disagree, that something like this is needed due to 'outclassing' other buffers, as there will always be something greater at a role; but if what DE said about the formula using improper variables, then yes that needs to get fixed. Unfortunately, this will be a nerf, but the way the game handles things should be consistent. I doubt Chroma's power will be as useful, but perhaps something can be done to make his narrow skill-set more useful to fill that gap.

7 minutes ago, Nakrast said:

Chroma 'nerf' was needed, since he outclassed most of buffers.
Ember nerf was needed, since she made public matching hell for new players, and even old ones.

Remember, this is a game, people come here to have fun, not to see an Ember jump around and oneshotting every mob, ruining the fun for everyone else.

And quit hiding behind the 'PVE' excuse, it's old and dumb.
 

Fun is subjective, and if a player is bothered by another player using their warframe as intended, that is probably a good indication they need to mature socially before trying to force their playstyle on others when searching for random allies to assist them. Was Ember a problem? Personally, I don't think so, though I also didn't find her fun, as she doesn't offer much to my playstyle aside from non-scaling damage - good against light infested but most of my guns or other abilities do well enough in that regard - that said, I am not every player and for players that did enjoy Ember, not being able to effect things at range and for a reduced period due to increased drain will likely push them away from her fragile caster playstyle. You might want to ask allies or random players what they feel about these changes rather than only insult others for expressing their own.

[Airwolfen]

not once have I seen a player say that chroma should be nerfed. That was DE's call.

He was an outlier in the buffer role. all buffs effect base stats. not modded. So Chroma has both the highest % buff AND uses a higher method of calculation. they warned about this change a long time ago. now its here.

[Aechmea]

>Can't AFK Play

>Unplayable

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

10 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Don't worry, they'll find a new frame or maybe a weapon they want to be nerfed as soon as the current targets get their 'rework' and players move on to an alternative. 

All the calls for nerfs really does make it feel like certain players want waframe to just be a gun and melee type game without any abilities at times...

   Several games thus far have the crowd who make their statements louder than others to change the game several times to get their way in a game. It would take the game far away from it's purpose. These issues were original in PvP areas of games; but the same crowd does not want to learn the things they haven't tried yet in the game. The same crowd would not have picked up Warframe and complain if the game was stuck in the same design that it was in for the first few month from release.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

22 minutes ago, Nakrast said:

Chroma 'nerf' was needed, since he outclassed most of buffers.
Ember nerf was needed, since she made public matching hell for new players, and even old ones.

Remember, this is a game, people come here to have fun, not to see an Ember jump around and oneshotting every mob, ruining the fun for everyone else.

And quit hiding behind the 'PVE' excuse, it's old and dumb.
 

   While PvP is the seed to many debuff in games it does bother certain players as much that some PvE play styles work after testing and others are preference. There would be less posts for PvE debuffs to be made if more players played Conclave more. PvP and PvE both take the time to understand how to play each one.

[Carlio]

18 minutes ago, Nakrast said:

Chroma 'nerf' was needed, since he outclassed most of buffers.
Ember nerf was needed, since she made public matching hell for new players, and even old ones.

Remember, this is a game, people come here to have fun, not to see an Ember jump around and oneshotting every mob, ruining the fun for everyone else.

And quit hiding behind the 'PVE' excuse, it's old and dumb.
 

Chroma should be outclassing every other buffers in the game by a wide margin. Every other buffer in the game doesn't have to take damage in order for the buffs to activate, they get it instantly and don't have to risk dying to do it. The simple fact that you have to risk dying in order to activate the buffs require an equivalent level of benefits. At enemies of level 50 or under, Chroma can take the damage and survive, beyond that all it can require is three or less attacks or even 3 seconds to die while trying to activate buffs.

Anyone who can say that Chroma doesn't deserve the high buffs has never played the warframe in any sortie level content, or nightmare (no shield). NO Matter how High the Buffs are he still becomes squishy that can be "one-shotted" while trying to activate his buffs.

If you want to make it fair remove the damage taken requirement which no other warframe currently has...

[Rociel]

Am I the only one who reads everything XGN DrFeelGood writes in the voice of Onkko ?

57 minutes ago, (Xbox One)XGN DrFeelGood said:

From the same crowd who made these complaints on the Forums they have voiced their complaints in serveral other games to push for the game to be unplayable for the majority of the people.

Is this tin-foil conspiracy stuff? It's really hard for me to understand OP. Or is this really just another generic "PvE doesn't need balance, we should just be given NoClip and GodMode if we want it" thread ?

[taiiat]

so, what you're saying, is that if your Gameplay scenario isn't be AFK or deal for all intents and purposes infinity Damage, that the game is unplayable.

ok

4 minutes ago, Carlio said:

beyond that all it can require is three or less attacks or even 3 seconds to die while trying to activate buffs.

nonsense. Armor comes before Damage, so you become a Hypertank before you even consider the theoretical self risk to increase your Damage.
that sort of statement only holds true vs like Lv500 Enemies, where the game doesn't work anyways for any Warframe.

Edited February 4, 2018 by taiiat

[Maka.Bones]

43 minutes ago, Nakrast said:

Remember, this is a game, people come here to have fun, not to see an Ember jump around and oneshotting every mob, ruining the fun for everyone else.

I loved playing ember, but that's honestly the reason I stoped maining her. I'd love it if she weren't so dependent on her 4, but that was honestly her most efficient, practical, & survival setup. Yes, I did try fireball/fireblast along with accelerant, and I tried accelerant alone. None of the other setups I tried were really as efficient, or survivable while allowing for fredom of movement.  

[Nez-Kal]

7 minutes ago, Carlio said:

Chroma should be outclassing every other buffers in the game by a wide margin. Every other buffer in the game doesn't have to take damage in order for the buffs to activate, they get it instantly and don't have to risk dying to do it. The simple fact that you have to risk dying in order to activate the buffs require an equivalent level of benefits. At enemies of level 50 or under, Chroma can take the damage and survive, beyond that all it can require is three or less attacks or even 3 seconds to die while trying to activate buffs.

Anyone who can say that Chroma doesn't deserve the high buffs has never played the warframe in any sortie level content, or nightmare (no shield). NO Matter how High the Buffs are he still becomes squishy that can be "one-shotted" while trying to activate his buffs.

If you want to make it fair remove the damage taken requirement which no other warframe currently has...

Isn't Chroma the only Frame with such a Power Activation/Buff method that CAN Self-Damage? From what DE has been saying it seems like they AREN'T taking that little tid-bit away from him, so.....count your blessings there. As for Late-Game, tying back in with the first part there, Players who play him typically seem to take some sort of Self-Damage method with them, to ensure a Controlled situation for their Buff gains. (I take Hikou Prime with Concealed Explosives Mod: Quick and Controlled Self-Damage).

 

You are right, he SHOULD be outclassing any other Frame that can single button press, full Buff effect. Just remember that DE IS also leaving him with his biggest life hack of all.

[Averath]

54 minutes ago, Nakrast said:

Chroma 'nerf' was needed, since he outclassed most of buffers.
Ember nerf was needed, since she made public matching hell for new players, and even old ones.

Remember, this is a game, people come here to have fun, not to see an Ember jump around and oneshotting every mob, ruining the fun for everyone else.

And quit hiding behind the 'PVE' excuse, it's old and dumb.
 

My tires on my car needed to be replaced. Doesn't mean they should only replace one tire and call the job "complete".

 

You're correct in that they needed to be changed, but this only makes these frames weaker overall, and not in a good way. They needed more sweeping changes to have everything addressed. Chroma's changes for "consistency's sake" ignore his other massive inconsistencies. Ember's change only makes her weaker and actively hurts her in the later stages of the game, as her damage will do absolutely nothing to compensate for her durability equating to a wet paper bag.

[Carlio]

4 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Isn't Chroma the only Frame with such a Power Activation/Buff method that CAN Self-Damage? From what DE has been saying it seems like they AREN'T taking that little tid-bit away from him, so.....count your blessings there. As for Late-Game, tying back in with the first part there, Players who play him typically seem to take some sort of Self-Damage method with them, to ensure a Controlled situation for their Buff gains. (I take Hikou Prime with Concealed Explosives Mod: Quick and Controlled Self-Damage).

 

You are right, he SHOULD be outclassing any other Frame that can single button press, full Buff effect. Just remember that DE IS also leaving him with his biggest life hack of all.

The point was if DE is trying to scale him down to be more like other warframe then they should do it the right way and should give the buffs without needing to take damage... They didn't change the buffs to make him different from other warframes, but rather more "like" other warframes. So the need or ability to self damage becomes a mute point.

The benefit to cost ratio has been drastically reduced...

[Maka.Bones]

6 minutes ago, Averath said:

Ember's change only makes her weaker and actively hurts her in the later stages of the game, as her damage will do absolutely nothing to compensate for her durability equating to a wet paper bag.

I think you mean a "burning" paperbag... ;D

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, Carlio said:

The point was if DE is trying to scale him down to be more like other warframe then they should do it the right way and should give the buffs without needing to take damage... They didn't change the buffs to make him different from other warframes, but rather more "like" other warframes. So the need or ability to self damage becomes a mute point.

The benefit to cost ratio has been drastically reduced...

Or reduce the amount of damage that you're required to take, to get the max benefit. 

[Cobaltor_252]

I find it hard to understand how people keep calling Chroma's fix a "nerf", it's almost like they didn't even read the Dev Workshop. It was an oversight with his damage calculations that they were reluctant for whatever reason to fix, and now they're fixing it.  DE isn't nerfing him because he does too much damage, they're changing him to be in line with literally all other damage calculations in the game and bring him back to what was intended.

As for Ember, like the Banshee augment change, it was warranted. She was boring to play and made missions with her on your team boring as well. I only played Ember when I wanted to trivialize missions, when I didn't want to play the game, or at least have to try.  The only reason people are upset is because none of her other abilities are as good as WoF, and it has been stated that DE is taking a look at her other abilities, so hopefully she becomes something more than an afk farming frame for early-game missions. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Cobaltor_252

[Rociel]

12 minutes ago, Averath said:

My tires on my car needed to be replaced. Doesn't mean they should only replace one tire and call the job "complete".

Oh, nice, anologies game!

My bicycle had a flat tire. Doesn't mean I built a new bicycle that will be able to run with a flat tire.

[(XBOX)DevilishSix]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)XGN DrFeelGood said:

   While these two Warframes are frowned on by players who weren't constantly defeated by someone using Ember nor Chroma in Conclave, there is the trend of reworking characters in the PvE area through a trend. These two characters are useful in team composition for team play, solo play in PvE, and infinite scaling enemies. Here and there complaints were posted on the Forums by players making a argument when they played public matchmaking in PvE with a random player who had used  Ember and any other characters in their match. From the same crowd who made these complaints on the Forums they have voiced their complaints in serveral other games to push for the game to be unplayable for the majority of the people. The same complaints will continue, even after the rework attempts to make some abilities more active.

This is true we have a current case study in how over balancing strips the fun out of a game.......I give you Destiny 2.

[-CM-Grendil]

Ember should simply be deleted after this nerf. Forcing a caster to fight within MELEE RANGE in order to do the same level of damage as a mediocre mid-range frame? Okay.

DE could have made WoF as a wide AoE nuke that has to be cast manually instead of the low-dps aura it is now, and will continue to be. We have plenty of other abilities on other frames that are way stronger than WoF, that have proper tuning.

For example: Ember's 3 and 4 could have been combined to make a medium-to-long range nuke so that we wouldn't be able to kill enemies off-screen but still have respectable range, tune the damage range up, auto-ignite enemies affected, and have the aura component removed. That would have promoted mobile play, and, with the addition of Firequake, would have retained the CC element. Also add diminishing returns to prevent spamming.

Players get punished with nerfs for finding the most efficient ways to do things, regardless of factors such as how armor is meaningless at end game, how some frame's damage is not only laughable, but only good at early game (Ember for example). Snowflakes come to the forums and complain and whine about some ability that has to be obliterated simply because they're having a hard time with their frame of choice, or just simply don't like a frame doing a certain thing because "reasons".

I loved Ember before this upcoming nerf, and even so, I have long agreed that WoF needed a change to make her play more active and engaging. But THIS change isn't a good one that DE's making, unless DE plans on adding more armor and health to the frame.

the issue's not that Ember's receiving a nerf. The issue's that Ember's nerf puts her in a much WORSE spot than she was already, and the Ember haters are too busy celebrating to notice the disturbing trend of putting a band-aid over a shotgun wound that DE is engaging in.

Oh well, I guess those haters will come back here in droves the day that DE nerfs THEIR main under the ground with horribad changes......

Edited February 4, 2018 by -CM-Grendil
spelling > me

[Carlio]

28 minutes ago, Cobaltor_252 said:

I find it hard to understand how people keep calling Chroma's fix a "nerf", it's almost like they didn't even read the Dev Workshop. It was an oversight with his damage calculations that they were reluctant for whatever reason to fix, and now they're fixing it.  DE isn't nerfing him because he does too much damage, they're changing him to be in line with literally all other damage calculations in the game and bring him back to what was intended.

As for Ember, like the Banshee augment change, it was warranted. She was boring to play and made missions with her on your team boring as well. I only played Ember when I wanted to trivialize missions, when I didn't want to play the game, or at least have to try.  The only reason people are upset is because none of her other abilities are as good as WoF, and it has been stated that DE is taking a look at her other abilities, so hopefully she becomes something more than an afk farming frame. 

DE said Chroma made Eidolons hunting to easy so they are changing him to be in line "all other damage calculations in the game". So that means he was doing too much damage to Eidolons. If Chroma was not used to hunt eidolons they would have let it alone for atleast until his Prime came out or a even a couple more years.

[Cobaltor_252]

7 minutes ago, Carlio said:

DE said Chroma made Eidolons hunting to easy so they are changing him to be in line "all other damage calculations in the game". So that means he was doing too much damage to Eidolons. If Chroma was not used to hunt eidolons they would have let it alone for atleast until his Prime came out or a even a couple more years.

My mistake, I must have missed that bit. But the change was still bound to happen since it was originally an oversight.  I guess him doing to much damage to Eidolons woke DE up to that thing they forgot to change.