Ash Feedback

[(XBOX)Artakka]

Ash is insanely op. Regardless of his 4, his 3 with the augment and a galatine prime I have yet to come across something I don't 1 shot (MR 17). Idk what this wheelchair talk is. Ash is far from it.

[Somi_xD]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb Hypernaut1:

You don't think his recent change was a huge QoL for him? For me personally, is almost brings his killing to pre marking levels. 

Did i say something against the change? I even mentioned it as the easy way to "fix" BS ;D.

The only problem with it is, that opt-in with teleport.... That was really stupid, and is half-as.sed. Seperate them directly or merge them to one ability and give a new 4th.

DE did decide to go with the easy way but tried to construct a pseudo-synergy which only use is visual for 'motion sickness lovers' but limits teleport while using BS.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Hypernaut1:

Ash isnt perfect. No frame is. He's still good at what he does. 

a few changes i would like to see

1. Hold 4 to opt in bladestorm. Currently, its clunky enough to where i never bother to join in anymore. There's no major advantage to doing so anyway. It's mostly visual.

2. Shuriken tosses individual clones on marked enemies without activating BS on all enemies. non-augment shuriken has no real use outside of low levels. a clone is cheaper, stronger and more accurate. I honestly dont know what they could do to make it a viable part of his kit by itself. 

 

1. Agree

2. Wouldn't be bad. 

Another good option for shuriken would be, to make shuriken count as melee hit for the combo counter and the dmg of the shurikens affected by melee multiplier.

Therefor the seeking shuriken augment takes away the dmg multi for shuriken but strips armor. (This would be one way to balance neutral shuriken out and would fit ashs melee frame image.

Edit: 3. His smoke screen needs to be a smoke cloud (at least with his smoke shadow augment)

Edited April 13, 2018 by Somi_xD

[lookindown]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Young Boy HT said:

Ash is insanely op. Regardless of his 4, his 3 with the augment and a galatine prime I have yet to come across something I don't 1 shot (MR 17). Idk what this wheelchair talk is. Ash is far from it.

Yeah think im good, dont wanna spend hours using the same ability, pressing 1 button to kill 1 enemy, is that what ash has degraded to....damn.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

4 minutes ago, lookindown said:

pressing 1 button to kill 1 enemy, is that what ash has degraded to....damn.

Nope

his 4 ability also wipes out sortie 3 enemies in seconds too.

Ash can use teleport to oneshot a heavy unit and use bladestorm to kill all the fodder enemies.

[Arcira]

What if his second ability would be an actual aoe smoke sreen that markes enemies in this area and makes allies invisible? This would be a good synergy and utility at the same time.

[Nazrethim]

hace 5 horas, Hypernaut1 dijo:

I honestly dont know what they could do to make it a viable part of his kit by itself.

How about making it shoot a single Shuriken base, but add one for each increase of the melee combo counter? or allow it to be charged to release a ring of shuriken around Ash. Or make it deal all it's damage  (instant+bleed) instantly as Finisher damage if victim is unalerted? Or make it a "combo ability" like Landslide and make Ash shoot 2, 4 and 6 if chain casted.

Or perhaps it could be replaced by a completely different ability, like a short range "Blinding Powder" thrown from Ash's hands to blind enemies in a cone in front of him and maybe opening them to finishers. Could also be made a combo ability by adding a short dash forward (similar to old slash dash) that becomes available after the powder is used. Or maybe a quiver-style array of Ninja tools, of which Shuriken would be one. Could also add stunning darts/bombs, rooting/crippling caltdrops, the already mentioned blinding powder.

[Hypernaut1]

30 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

 

How about making it shoot a single Shuriken base, but add one for each increase of the melee combo counter? or allow it to be charged to release a ring of shuriken around Ash. Or make it deal all it's damage  (instant+bleed) instantly as Finisher damage if victim is unalerted? Or make it a "combo ability" like Landslide and make Ash shoot 2, 4 and 6 if chain casted.

Or perhaps it could be replaced by a completely different ability, like a short range "Blinding Powder" thrown from Ash's hands to blind enemies in a cone in front of him and maybe opening them to finishers. Could also be made a combo ability by adding a short dash forward (similar to old slash dash) that becomes available after the powder is used. Or maybe a quiver-style array of Ninja tools, of which Shuriken would be one. Could also add stunning darts/bombs, rooting/crippling caltdrops, the already mentioned blinding powder.

i like the chaining idea. it would be cool if they gave him alternating hand throwing animation too.

What if it did damage and was also an accuracy/damage debuff on enemies? Like you throw it at a heavy gunner and besides damage, it makes them miss more and decreases their damage output for a time? Ash may not need it since he could just FT and assassinate, but if he could rapidly debuff a bunch of enemies (at a cost of course), it could be a team utility for squishier frames. This might be too much power for a 1 though.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

6 hours ago, lookindown said:

Yeah think im good, dont wanna spend hours using the same ability, pressing 1 button to kill 1 enemy, is that what ash has degraded to....damn.

You missed the part where I said regardless. His bladestorm is still very viable for sorties, his 2nd just allows him to better take out enemies with no resistance, and his 1st strips armor. If you don't synergize his abilities and make use of his complete toolkit, that's your choice. Ash doesn't rely on just one ability, but man is that one ability insane.

[True_Naeblis]

In terms of energy cost I can deal with DE leaving it as high as it is for his 4, but he and Rhino are both still left in the past with their max energy even from Primed Flow. It's not just a matter of energy at the moment for use, it's having a larger pool for when things do get squirrely. 400 isn't cutting it.

As to actual Blade Storm, not having to watch the animation anymore is a nice change. Since the specters works independently now, though, having them all work at once on however many marked targets there are would be a nice change as well. Set a max number of targets regardless of energy availability, but make it nuke the things that it nukes and be done with them. Watching energy refunded again and again because someone else does the job faster while you're marking up targets or your specters are killing and killing slowly just feels pretty weak.

Khora's whip or her 4 and a weapon will kill faster. Rhino's stomp and then a weapon to finish kill faster. Banshee Sonar & Silence followed by melee goodness or a ranged weap kill faster. If Nezha runs through a crowd with his ult on they're left burning while he moves on. If his chakram is enough to deal with them, then it's fire and forget, on to the next. Excal can swish his way across the map willy nilly and things just die. Nidus' virulence takes care of everything in its path, it doesn't have to stop at the first and kill it, then the next, then the next. His 2  doesn't gobble up one thing at a time. His parasites don't feast on one enemy at a time. Mesa will clear the area and leave everything dead before Ash even finishes marking targets.

Ash's ghosts should do their work on all marked targets at once and be done in one go. With the time needed to mark, and even more to add two to three marks on a target, slow kills after the fact aren't getting it done.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

19 minutes ago, True_Naeblis said:

In terms of energy cost I can deal with DE leaving it as high as it is for his 4, but he and Rhino are both still left in the past with their max energy even from Primed Flow. It's not just a matter of energy at the moment for use, it's having a larger pool for when things do get squirrely. 400 isn't cutting it.

As to actual Blade Storm, not having to watch the animation anymore is a nice change. Since the specters works independently now, though, having them all work at once on however many marked targets there are would be a nice change as well. Set a max number of targets regardless of energy availability, but make it nuke the things that it nukes and be done with them. Watching energy refunded again and again because someone else does the job faster while you're marking up targets or your specters are killing and killing slowly just feels pretty weak.

Khora's whip or her 4 and a weapon will kill faster. Rhino's stomp and then a weapon to finish kill faster. Banshee Sonar & Silence followed by melee goodness or a ranged weap kill faster. If Nezha runs through a crowd with his ult on they're left burning while he moves on. If his chakram is enough to deal with them, then it's fire and forget, on to the next. Excal can swish his way across the map willy nilly and things just die. Nidus' virulence takes care of everything in its path, it doesn't have to stop at the first and kill it, then the next, then the next. His 2  doesn't gobble up one thing at a time. His parasites don't feast on one enemy at a time. Mesa will clear the area and leave everything dead before Ash even finishes marking targets.

Ash's ghosts should do their work on all marked targets at once and be done in one go. With the time needed to mark, and even more to add two to three marks on a target, slow kills after the fact aren't getting it done.

This sounds like you haven't done anything past star chart.

If you build attack speed on your melee, the bladestorm clones should take out groups of lvl 120 enemies in seconds, and you can use your weapons, so if your teammates are out killing your Ash, then either you're playing low level missions or you just gotta work on your build.

Speaking of builds, Ash doesn't need an energy increase, because he has one of the cheapest kits in the game

His 1 cost 25 energy

His 2 cost 35 energy

His 3 cost 25 energy

His 4 cost 6-12 energy per mark(and it refunds unused marks.

Just using a streamline can make his kit spam happy.

Your suggestion would just turn Ash into Old Press4towin but on crack. Especially when clones do all the work and it takes most people like 2-3 seconds to triple mark enemies.

[True_Naeblis]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

This sounds like you haven't done anything past star chart.

If you build attack speed on your melee, the bladestorm clones should take out groups of lvl 120 enemies in seconds, and you can use your weapons, so if your teammates are out killing your Ash, then either you're playing low level missions or you just gotta work on your build.

Speaking of builds, Ash doesn't need an energy increase, because he has one of the cheapest kits in the game

His 1 cost 25 energy

His 2 cost 35 energy

His 3 cost 25 energy

His 4 cost 6-12 energy per mark(and it refunds unused marks.

Just using a streamline can make his kit spam happy.

Your suggestion would just turn Ash into Old Press4towin but on crack. Especially when clones do all the work and it takes most people like 2-3 seconds to triple mark enemies.

Which is exactly why I said place a limit on the max number of targets. I don't think with the power BS has that it should be able to lock on to everything in the room and walk away. I also said that the energy boost is because of how content works. You might have a glut of energy at times, then not have it when you need it, and it's easy to see the difference in efficient frames with a 500 or 600 pool vs those with 400. There's a way to give him better QoL without making his 4 press once to win. I'm fine with both marking targets and keeping a cap on the number, as well as having to stay on them longer to add a second or third mark.

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

4 hours ago, True_Naeblis said:

Which is exactly why I said place a limit on the max number of targets. I don't think with the power BS has that it should be able to lock on to everything in the room and walk away. I also said that the energy boost is because of how content works. You might have a glut of energy at times, then not have it when you need it, and it's easy to see the difference in efficient frames with a 500 or 600 pool vs those with 400. There's a way to give him better QoL without making his 4 press once to win. I'm fine with both marking targets and keeping a cap on the number, as well as having to stay on them longer to add a second or third mark.

But like you said earlier TIME is the biggest factor. Refunded energy is a sure fire sign of the ability being bad design. The way it was originally with auto target selection compensated for 40 seconds it took to kill while the enemies we marked were "ours" alone. With the "auto marked" enemies being able to be killed by other players would have made design wise much better game play. Add in the clone summon of the current system with a same button opt in method and the skill is back to being near perfect. Get rid of the per enemy garbage or add it to EVERY frame that can hit more than one enemy. 

 I seriously do not understand the logic of these devs and the keyboard warriors defending these changes. It sux because for so long this was my favorite game and my kick back and murder everything in sight fun relax time. Now they just want me to "work" and I'm not going to work 8-12 hours a day just to come home and stress over more work. So I stopped playing this game. I hope one day I can come back and Ash will be out of his wheel chair and I can enjoy this game again.

[(XBOX)UlisesTheFallen]

I think the best way to do this is to give Ash his old BS back. The only issue alot of people had was that it made enemies invincible to everyone and everything except Ash and his clones. That was the only real issue with his 4th. And some people had the sickness to the animation, but other then that, Ash was completely fine. Best middle ground is give Ash the "auto target" back, so he can go back to killing enemies in a certain radius like before without a S#&$ty mark system, but let teammates hurt enemies that are affected by BS. Everyone would be happy then. And I guess make it to where its only his clones that do BS, that way he can still be a teamplayer and assist others. Opt in if you like, or not, like now. But picture it, Ash can just activate blade storm without having to target, and all enemies within a certain radius are being slaughtered while he goes to revive his boy, Excalibro, or whatever frame you want in that scenario. You get the best of both worlds: Ash's old BS killing capabilities while still being a team sport. My friend I played with stopped playing this because they killed his 4th ability. I used a Seeking Shuriken build, myself, but Ash needs his old 4th back in the way I've suggested/proposed, as it's the best way that would help both sides and keep them happy. I recognize his 4th has a crippling mechanic. That mark system needs to go

[BLI7Z]

I haven't read everything, not your main post, OP; neither everyone elses answers.

I'm going to say this as a main Ash player (also Trinity for Eidolons, Nova, Loki, and Frost for some specific stuff):

Ash is brutal as hell unleashed. He is a monster of slash damage meelee.

His shurikens with the augmentation are insane.

Smoskescreen is one of the best instant life savers.

Teleport and execute saved me from death since times immemorial.

Bladestorm is a perfect assassination tool. 

This Warframe is perfect for real ninja-like gameplay. Loki can bite the dust against Ash. 

Long live the King, ASH. 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

Get rid of the per enemy garbage or add it to EVERY frame that can hit more than one enemy. 

 I seriously do not understand the logic of these devs and the keyboard warriors defending these changes

You wanna know why DE doesn't turn bladestorm into another mindless AOE? Because balance. 

Bladestorm is already one of the strongest damage abilities in the game, it can deal a total of 100,000+ finisher damage with three marks, hell my bladestorm build for Ash can easily deal a total of 200,000+ finisher damage. That's enough damage to wipe out a room of lvl 170 corrupted bombards in seconds.

If bladestorm dealt something else other than finisher damage, then I would agree with you, but unfortunately Bladestorm's killing potential is too powerful for it to be what you want, so if spending 3 seconds to erase your enemies is too much work for you than that's too bad :(

 

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

You wanna know why DE doesn't turn bladestorm into another mindless AOE? Because balance. 

Bladestorm is already one of the strongest damage abilities in the game, it can deal a total of 100,000+ finisher damage with three marks, hell my bladestorm build for Ash can easily deal a total of 200,000+ finisher damage. That's enough damage to wipe out a room of lvl 170 corrupted bombards in seconds.

If bladestorm dealt something else other than finisher damage, then I would agree with you, but unfortunately Bladestorm's killing potential is too powerful for it to be what you want, so if spending 3 seconds to erase your enemies is too much work for you than that's too bad :(

 

 

BS is not the strongest in DPS. Maybe in single skill damage but then you must argue what is his current single skill. BS with 1 single mark does not win ANY DPS war. 

Finisher damage is 100% useless in structured groups. Four players using Corrosive projection removes all armor making finisher damage useless.

But since you are speaking about finisher damage...

Lets look at Hydroid. Hydroid also does "finisher damage" but doesn't have a per target energy cost. 

Lets look at Octavia. Doesn't need anything but enemies to attack her orb and things disappear no finisher damage needed.

Let's look at Mesa. Doesn't need finisher damage and put at the right choke point easily out classes the BEST Ash player. 

This list can go on forever. War Frame was about having fun. This micromanaging crap ruined this class which ruined this game for me.

This was never an issue of damage but you brought it up. 

Also you cannot achieve a 200,000+ blade storm without a 5-10 minute build up (or more) and waiting another 9 seconds for the ticks. You think in 5 mins that any other character cannot surpass Ash's damage? 

The only factor that should limit a skills damage output is energy. If you so want to spam a key then you should suffer in certain area and excel in others. No frame can assist in players ability to "mark" enemies.

I do not care if every auto target has an energy cost to hit. I'm ok with that.

But to make a system where a player has to slow down/stop the fun in order to use it is just absurd.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

BS is not the strongest in DPS. Maybe in single skill damage but then you must argue what is his current single skill. BS with 1 single mark does not win ANY DPS war. 

That's why you use three marks obviously.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

Finisher damage is 100% useless in structured groups. Four players using Corrosive projection removes all armor making finisher damage useless.

I find it cute that you think everyone always run a structured group with 4xCP 100% of the time.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

Lets look at Hydroid. Hydroid also does "finisher damage" but doesn't have a per target energy cost. 

Hydroid also becomes an puddle that  literally does nothing but suck enemies into him and slowly drowns them, he can't pick up loot, energy or interact with anything like consoles and his 4 ability deals such pathetic finisher damage that it's not a good damage source on high lvls.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

Lets look at Octavia. Doesn't need anything but enemies to attack her orb and things disappear no finisher damage needed.

Octavia makes every frame in the game look bad so using her doesn't really matter.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

Let's look at Mesa. Doesn't need finisher damage and put at the right choke point easily out classes the BEST Ash player. 

You're right she doesn't need finisher damage, she needs a Optimal build on her secondary where as Ash just needs like two mods on his melee to optimize bladestorm.

Also energy wise, Ash will be able to spam Bladestorm a lot more than Mesa can spam peacemaker since Bladestorm isn't a channeling so Ash can gain energy from EV Trinity, energy pads, Harrow etc while using bladestorm where as Mesa doesn't when using peacemaker.

Also bladestorm doesn't make Ash stationary and Ash can still use his weapons while bladestorming.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

This list can go on forever. War Frame was about having fun. This micromanaging crap ruined this class which ruined this game for me.

It is, but fun is subjective, Bladestorm's "micromanaging" is pretty fun for many other people. It ruined Ash for you but not everyone.

Hell, it takes most people 3 seconds to triple a group of enemies, it's really not that bad.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

Also you cannot achieve a 200,000+ blade storm without a 5-10 minute build up (or more) and waiting another 9 seconds for the ticks. You think in 5 mins that any other character cannot surpass Ash's damage? 

Add some power strength and use the venka prime and your Bladestorm will slay Gods in like 30 seconds.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

The only factor that should limit a skills damage output is energy. If you so want to spam a key then you should suffer in certain area and excel in others. No frame can assist in players ability to "mark" enemies.

Well this isn't the case with bladestorm, the energy cost is laughable with some efficiency mods and Ash can still gain energy while using it. The frame shouldn't need to assist you considering all you do is look left and right like 3 times quickly.

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

I do not care if every auto target has an energy cost to hit. I'm ok with that.

 

6 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

But to make a system where a player has to slow down/stop the fun in order to use it is just absurd

But that's not what the system is doing tho, it actually encourages you to be aggressive. Sure most people will stop doing anything to mark enemies, but you can just leave bladestorm on passively and just play the game normally use it when you're swarmed, I personally find the ability to oneshot a group of enemies while gunning down another group to be really fun and active.

Edited April 15, 2018 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

20 hours ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

That's why you use three marks obviously.

I find it cute that you think everyone always run a structured group with 4xCP 100% of the time.

Hydroid also becomes an puddle that  literally does nothing but suck enemies into him and slowly drowns them, he can't pick up loot, energy or interact with anything like consoles and his 4 ability deals such pathetic finisher damage that it's not a good damage source on high lvls.

Octavia makes every frame in the game look bad so using her doesn't really matter.

You're right she doesn't need finisher damage, she needs a Optimal build on her secondary where as Ash just needs like two mods on his melee to optimize bladestorm.

Also energy wise, Ash will be able to spam Bladestorm a lot more than Mesa can spam peacemaker since Bladestorm isn't a channeling so Ash can gain energy from EV Trinity, energy pads, Harrow etc while using bladestorm where as Mesa doesn't when using peacemaker.

Also bladestorm doesn't make Ash stationary and Ash can still use his weapons while bladestorming.

It is, but fun is subjective, Bladestorm's "micromanaging" is pretty fun for many other people. It ruined Ash for you but not everyone.

Hell, it takes most people 3 seconds to triple a group of enemies, it's really not that bad.

Add some power strength and use the venka prime and your Bladestorm will slay Gods in like 30 seconds.

Well this isn't the case with bladestorm, the energy cost is laughable with some efficiency mods and Ash can still gain energy while using it. The frame shouldn't need to assist you considering all you do is look left and right like 3 times quickly.

 

But that's not what the system is doing tho, it actually encourages you to be aggressive. Sure most people will stop doing anything to mark enemies, but you can just leave bladestorm on passively and just play the game normally use it when you're swarmed, I personally find the ability to oneshot a group of enemies while gunning down another group to be really fun and active.

To me reading what you wrote....

It seems to me that you are on PC or playing solo off on your own not actually being in a group contributing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

On PC I'm sure marking is MUCH faster and easier to micromanage while using your space bar/left alt (quick mele depending on your keyboard spacing and hand size) and what not but on console this is not the case at all. trying to attack in one spot and mark in the other is not as easy as flicking a high DPI mouse very slightly or shaking it violently hoping you can get ANY kills in a multiplayer as things melt WAY to fast to slow down and mark enemies.

Also slash is now the META and mele has always been OP so the thing is I can easily out kill you JUST using teleport (normal non modded) and my atterax. It take you way to long to mark enemies and why would I want my cross hair on something and not just outright kill it.

Edited April 16, 2018 by (XB1)Natfrog123

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

(XB1)Angryspy101

But to make a system where a player has to slow down/stop the fun in order to use it is just absurd

But that's not what the system is doing tho, it actually encourages you to be aggressive. Sure most people will stop doing anything to mark enemies, but you can just leave bladestorm on passively and just play the game normally use it when you're swarmed, I personally find the ability to oneshot a group of enemies while gunning down another group to be really fun and active.

Since  I forgot to address this in the last.

It does the exact opposite of what you claim. With out my invuln frames and a system that "auto marks" enemies no matter where I look I'm forced to hang back OUT of the combat NOT being agressive. NOT helping my team and NOT having fun. I can go in and spam my mele button but I cannot have a use for a skill that FORCES me to stop doing something to "mark" targets and then to put more than a single mark on a single enemy if I am lets say surrounded is just a pure statement of fiction if you think that this is ok. The 4 ability was for when S#&$ got bad and you needed a murder button. Ash is completely gimped now. He might as well be in a wheel chair when looking at this game, the mechanics IN THIS GAME, and where he was prior to the original rework where MOST real Ash fans fell in love with him.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Natfrog123 said:

but on console this is not the case at all

I'm an Ash main on PS4, and I do what he's suggesting all the time. I have no difficulty with the marking. Being able to have your clones take out one group while you're personally fighting another group has been a great boon to Ash's skillset. 

The only things I think BS might need for quality of life is a small circular area for marking rather than his crosshair, and a way to instantly upgrade all marked enemies to 3 marks for convenience (like hold the button to pay the extra cost per mark needed and upgrade marked enemies to 3 marks).

[(XBOX)Natfrog123]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I'm an Ash main on PS4, and I do what he's suggesting all the time. I have no difficulty with the marking. Being able to have your clones take out one group while you're personally fighting another group has been a great boon to Ash's skillset. 

The only things I think BS might need for quality of life is a small circular area for marking rather than his crosshair, and a way to instantly upgrade all marked enemies to 3 marks for convenience (like hold the button to pay the extra cost per mark needed and upgrade marked enemies to 3 marks).

This would be solved with an auto marking system. Again you admit that the current set hinders your ability to play and slows you down... thanks.

[Nazrethim]

En 14/4/2018 a las 23:46, BLI7Z dijo:

Ash is brutal as hell unleashed. He is a monster of slash damage meelee.

Which may or may not become a good thing once IPS gets reworked, unless DE thinks ahead and prepares something should Slash gets hit hard.

En 14/4/2018 a las 23:46, BLI7Z dijo:

His shurikens with the augmentation are insane.

Good Niche with augment, completely worthless without it for practical purposes. You can still use it for shirts and giggles.

En 14/4/2018 a las 23:46, BLI7Z dijo:

Smoskescreen is one of the best instant life savers.

A little lasting cloud upgrade for it's Augment would be nice though.

En 14/4/2018 a las 23:46, BLI7Z dijo:

Teleport and execute saved me from death since times immemorial.

When it doesn't bug out. Not to mention it cannot be used on many objects which makes little sense. And it requires the augment to sort of work properly.

En 14/4/2018 a las 23:46, BLI7Z dijo:

Bladestorm is a perfect assassination tool. 

Probably, but remember this is a Horde game, target by target assassination tools aren't as great as they seem. At least now you can continue to attack while the clones do their thing, albeit slowly, and the cost has been made reasonable.

En 14/4/2018 a las 23:46, BLI7Z dijo:

This Warframe is perfect for real ninja-like gameplay.

Actually, Ivara more closely resembles "real ninja-like gameplay" with her array of control tools, having distraction, stealing, spying. Ash fits the "hollywood warrior ninja" theme. For a comparison, a real ninja would play like the Marked Ninja from Mark of the Ninja, while a hollywood ninja would be Ryu Hayabusa, you can spot the differences. Ash brings no actual stealth tactics beyond going invisible and destroying bodies with BS, which doesn't even grant stealth kill multiplier if it manages to oneshot the victim.

En 14/4/2018 a las 23:46, BLI7Z dijo:

Loki can bite the dust against Ash. 

Comparing Loki and Ash is foolish though, Ash has more in common with Excalibur than with Loki.

 

[Vanrythzx]

i think shuriken should mark enemies and riccochet 4-5 times (not back to the same enemy tho)

Edited April 17, 2018 by Vanrythzx

[Dr.Wuzzah]

This thread has become pointless

[BLI7Z]

hace 14 horas, Nazrethim dijo:

Which may or may not become a good thing once IPS gets reworked, unless DE thinks ahead and prepares something should Slash gets hit hard.

Good Niche with augment, completely worthless without it for practical purposes. You can still use it for shirts and giggles.

A little lasting cloud upgrade for it's Augment would be nice though.

When it doesn't bug out. Not to mention it cannot be used on many objects which makes little sense. And it requires the augment to sort of work properly.

Probably, but remember this is a Horde game, target by target assassination tools aren't as great as they seem. At least now you can continue to attack while the clones do their thing, albeit slowly, and the cost has been made reasonable.

Actually, Ivara more closely resembles "real ninja-like gameplay" with her array of control tools, having distraction, stealing, spying. Ash fits the "hollywood warrior ninja" theme. For a comparison, a real ninja would play like the Marked Ninja from Mark of the Ninja, while a hollywood ninja would be Ryu Hayabusa, you can spot the differences. Ash brings no actual stealth tactics beyond going invisible and destroying bodies with BS, which doesn't even grant stealth kill multiplier if it manages to oneshot the victim.

Comparing Loki and Ash is foolish though, Ash has more in common with Excalibur than with Loki.

 

It all depends on gameplay and perspective. I feel like an anime ninja with insane powers, or something like that, while using Ash... Ivara and Loki don't give me that feeling.

The mod ain't necessary for Teleport to be effective. I prefer using Natural Talent for that matter, and then pressing E myself.

And you can spam Smoke Screen for locking enemies, with high range and 1 sec duration to the skill itself. 

And for Blade Storm, if you have good aiming and speed, you can just bullet jump for a while, spam Smoke Screen a couple of times... and there you've got a full room of high level enemies totally wiped out. That if you didn't kill the "trash" mobs before with a weapon. 

All frames have pros and cons... But in the end the most important thing, from my view, is having mobility while knowing the game mechanics.
 

And in any case, as I alreay wrote, it is always a matter of gameplay. I like the way Ash skills work, because I don't have to depend on them. They are tools for specific moments; and from my perspective, that I love going mostly meelee, and needing good timing, I just love the way Ash makes that gameplay more complete. Blade Storm and Teleport are more for assassinating specific enemies or groups, not so much as an instant nuke. I like how playing Ash makes very important what weapons you take with you. 

And I won't get tired of saying this over and over, it's all a matter of perspectives and gameplay. And I feel that playing Ash is playing Warframe in hardmode.

Edited April 18, 2018 by BLI7Z