Reduce weapon switching time.

[(PSN)Croewe]

The more and more I play fortnite (PvE) the more and more I realise just how clunky weapon switching in Warframe is. It's annoying as you'll tend to just use one weapon for extremely long periods of time and only switch when you run out of ammo. Look at this quick video and you'll see what I mean by smooth switching.

I really want to be able to switch on the fly and I refuse to use mods to do so when every build already is already full of mandatory mods.

Please DE either completely remove the delay (keep the animation and let you cancel immediately by shooting) or add a massive increase to the speed at which you switch.

Edited February 14, 2018 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[Spectre-8]

Yes please DE , this is a great suggestion - make it a reality in the next 24 hours ( no pressure ) .

[Rabbid-]

you can still do something else while changing weapons
like:
go bullet jump and while your jumping you can change weapon' it'll change the moment you land

[(PSN)Croewe]

4 minutes ago, Rabbid- said:

you can still do something else while changing weapons
like:
go bullet jump and while your jumping you can change weapon' it'll change the moment you land

I could do that... I could also kill enemies switch midair and kill even more enemies before touching the ground... You know like a space ninja would.

Edited February 14, 2018 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[Hayabusa97]

Seriously, no one I know of (cept for my clan leader who used to use speed holster for mesa) really uses the holster speed mods (streamlined form probably only sees use on Nezha just for more sliding, the weapon mods take up a slot that is usually reserved for a more useful mod, and Speed holster shares the same aura polarity as Corrosive Projection and Energy Siphon)

Edited February 14, 2018 by Hayabusa97

[MJ12]

I made a thread about this a while ago that got onto the popular threads list. It really is a thing which will not harm Warframe's gameplay balance or core gameplay loop while improving variety and available tactics.

[NinjaZeku]

Yes please.

It's just so dang silly that lotsa times when faced with a Nullifier while wielding a slow single-shot Primary,
I keep plinking away at the bubble with that one rather than switch to my rapid-fire Secondary
because the weapon switch time would pretty much negate (or even surpass) the kill speed gained.

[TheGrimCorsair]

There's a mod for that. Streamlined Form works wonderfully, in fact.

[NinjaZeku]

7 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

There's a mod for that. Streamlined Form works wonderfully, in fact.

Yay bandaid Mods : |

Also, a 60% speed increase isn't even ninja good enough.

_{Plus I'd never use it over Enemy Sense.}

[GeoffFromAccounting]

Yes please. I still fail to see why Warframe, the game about fast paced space ninjas with void magic, has the slowest and clunkiest weapon swap out of almost any game I've played. This includes games like Insurgency, a much slower paced game about tactical marines/soldiers in the middle east during the modern day and age, yet somehow that has a faster/less clunkier weapon swap than Warframe.

A change like this would do wonders for smoothing out the gunplay, and would actually help in making loadouts where the secondary compliments the primary, rather than the current case of "you choose one, and you only swap if you absolutely have to (e.g Lifestrike) or you're no longer in combat". It would also go a huge distance into complimenting the theme of the game, rather than grating against it.

To all those who say "but Speed Holster!" or any mod similar: No. Such a simple change that would greatly smooth out the game should not be locked behind a bandaid mod. This game already has a massive issue with mandatory/bandaid mods (damage mods come to mind, but that's another can of worms for another topic), and I refuse to let such a basic game mechanic be crippled simply because "there's a mod for that".

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I see only good and no harm from DE allowing more fluid weapon transition from a player's perspective for both Conclave and Normal PvE co-op.

It makes players feel more Ninja and if the swap/holster speed was sped up- I might even be willing to use reload while holstered mods in PvE.

 

The game has come along way in making us move more ninja-like with just a few things left for us to be there completely.

•Melee Animation lock attacks (Wall-attacks/Ground Slam)

•Not yet able to cling to ceiling (we are space ninjas)

•Slow weapon switching relative to the pace of combat

 

If weapon switching matched the newer Operator transition speed that would be great.

 

Repurposing Speed Holster to be a Natural Talent Aura mod would be amazing and other holster speed mods could always be Endo conversion/refunds.

Fair compromise for more fluid combat at all levels: even allowing for faster Codex scanner swap.

[(PSN)Croewe]

16 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Melee Animation lock attacks

This is another thing I have a massive problem with. More weapons need to have stances like crushing ruin and vulpine mask which allow for far more freedom while using their combos. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

I think it would be neat to have a default melee mode keybind (I use C) and change the way the swap keybind works:

Press F briefly to switch weapons.

Hold F to use your sidearm and swap back to your primary on release.

The increased swap speed could be handled with weapons "jumping" from holsters to hands in neat sci-fi fashion, or even just straight-up teleporting. (To reduce the issue of janky swap animations.)

[Mach25]

This is why I use the blade alone - slow weapon switching ruins it.

15 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

I think it would be neat to have a default melee mode keybind (I use C) and change the way the swap keybind works:

Press F briefly to switch weapons.

Hold F to use your sidearm and swap back to your primary on release.

The increased swap speed could be handled with weapons "jumping" from holsters to hands in neat sci-fi fashion, or even just straight-up teleporting. (To reduce the issue of janky swap animations.)

You - I like you.

[TheGrimCorsair]

On 2/14/2018 at 11:30 PM, NinjaZeku said:

Yay bandaid Mods : |

Also, a 60% speed increase isn't even ninja good enough.

_{Plus I'd never use it over Enemy Sense.}

Yeah, it's good enough. No, its not a bandaid.

News flash: Modding is a trade off of space vs desired perks. You want weapon swap speed? You're giving up an exilus slot. Or an aura slot. Or one of your regular slots. Just like if you want to recover super fast from knockdowns, bullet jump faster, on squeeze that little extra bit of power strength out of your build.

[blueThunder24]

It's not just clunky, it's broken. I made some tests some time ago.

 

[MJ12]

2 hours ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

Yeah, it's good enough. No, its not a bandaid.

News flash: Modding is a trade off of space vs desired perks. You want weapon swap speed? You're giving up an exilus slot. Or an aura slot. Or one of your regular slots. Just like if you want to recover super fast from knockdowns, bullet jump faster, on squeeze that little extra bit of power strength out of your build.

@blueThunder24 just made an excellent post showing that no, it's not good enough and it is absolutely a bandaid. In Call of Duty, several of the weapons have a disadvantage of having a more or less glacial switch speed to make up for their other good qualities, for example, machine guns in the Treyarch games (which have high stopping power and fire rate at the cost that they make you slow as hell, take forever to reload, and take forever to switch or ADS)..This glacial switch speed is... ~700-1000 milliseconds. This is literally two or three times faster than switching weapons in Warframe.

Modding in Warframe isn't a "trade off of space vs desired perks." The modding system in Warframe is literally the vertical progression system in Warframe. When you say "you're giving up an exilus slot. Or an aura slot. Or one of your regular slots." You are saying that you should be required to make the choice of giving up a ridiculous amount of real, actual, temporal power for convenience. You know what happens when you force people to make that choice? People choose actual, temporal power rather than moderately increased convenience, but become annoyed because your game is frustrating if you don't choose convenience. It's not the good kind of choice which leads to the good kind of hard decisions. It's the bad kind of choice because it feels awful. It's the developers saying through game mechanics "If you want to make the game feel better, you can choose to be weaker. Suck it up buttercup."

When you talk about games which go "you want weapon swap speed? You're giving up something else in return" guess what they don't ask you to give up. Oh right, real, actual, damage per second. Instead it's a bunch of different choices which do not have a clear preference. If 'weapon swap speed' mods were separated and siloed off entirely from actual increases in damage output, you might have something resembling a point (except 2 seconds to switch a weapon is considered ridiculously slow in even a tactical shooter and we shouldn't be required to mount mods to gain a baseline level of competence and game-feel). But in Warframe, you don't choose between not showing up on UAV scans and switching weapons faster. You don't choose between running a reflex sight on your gun and switching weapons faster. You don't choose between bringing your weapon up faster after ending a sprint and switching weapons faster. You have to choose between doing more damage, often a ton more damage, and switching weapons about as fast as people do in Call of Duty. They nuked Stopping Power in the Call of Duty games for a reason, and that reason was because making people choose between 33% more damage and convenience was a bad idea all around. The Exilus slot in and of itself should be a demonstrator of how ridiculous this bandaid is. The Exilus slot exists because nobody was using anything but raw combat stat-increasing mods, because it was incredibly dumb to use anything but raw stat-increasing mods.

The switch mods are absolutely a bandaid which exist only because weapon switching in Warframe is set to a ludicrously slow level and takes 2 to 3 times longer than in other comparable shooters. They never get used because they are directly competing with actual power, because the Warframe mod system is more or less the entirety of Warframe's vertical progression system. So despite the fact that DE ostensibly wants people to switch between weapons on a regular basis, nobody does so and instead they take weapons that are good at any range (or use quick melee), and only switch weapons when they run out of ammo.

Perhaps you should consider that the "tradeoff" has been demonstrated to be one that nobody wants to pay, because it is absolutely foolish to trade actual power for minor convenience. The example of Speed Holster is pretty amazing too, because you are literally suggesting that it is good to present a choice between effectively increasing your damage output against the toughest targets by something like 50 to 1000 (not a typo)% depending on how many corpros are in your squad and switching weapons slightly faster.

This idea that modding is a "Trade off of space vs desired perks" needs to die in a fire. It isn't actually true. It was never actually true. Maybe it's true for some other games but the Warframe mod system absolutely does not support this. Modding in Warframe is actually more akin to assigning stat level-ups in other RPGs, except your stat level-ups are equipped as cards.

[Biddion]

I like things the way they are. If one wants to switch weapons faster, mod for it by giving up damage. I typically think about my weapon choices so that one can handle a job another cannot.

 

Actually, I feel like more damage should be taken when reloading or switching weapons to force us to use cover more.If a change is necessary, have heavier weapons take longer to switch to, while smaller, lighter weapons switch almost instantaneously. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

12 hours ago, Biddion said:

I like things the way they are. If one wants to switch weapons faster, mod for it by giving up damage. I typically think about my weapon choices so that one can handle a job another cannot.

So basically players who want to mod for swap speed need to limit themselves to high-damage non-crit weapons or Warframes like Inaros?

Fun.

12 hours ago, Biddion said:

Actually, I feel like more damage should be taken when reloading or switching weapons to force us to use cover more.If a change is necessary, have heavier weapons take longer to switch to, while smaller, lighter weapons switch almost instantaneously. 

Ew.

That's not the kind of game Warframe is, and I'm glad it isn't.

Many tiles don't have adequate cover for the number of enemies, backspawns are a thing, and your idea would just flat-out not work on the Plains.

The fact that weapons DON'T have variable swap speed should clue you into the fact that it isn't being used as a balancing mechanic and is simply too long. Sort of how the default melee combo meter is too short and effectively unusable without augmentation.

[Panser_Nes]

15 hours ago, Biddion said:

Actually, I feel like more damage should be taken when reloading or switching weapons to force us to use cover more.If a change is necessary, have heavier weapons take longer to switch to, while smaller, lighter weapons switch almost instantaneously. 

I am so happy right now that the forums are not actually working on the game. This has to go down as the worst idea I've seen to date.

[MJ12]

15 hours ago, Biddion said:

I like things the way they are. If one wants to switch weapons faster, mod for it by giving up damage. I typically think about my weapon choices so that one can handle a job another cannot.

 

Actually, I feel like more damage should be taken when reloading or switching weapons to force us to use cover more.If a change is necessary, have heavier weapons take longer to switch to, while smaller, lighter weapons switch almost instantaneously. 

Oh god the Covershooterframe people are back

I thought we had banished the last of the Covershooterframe people in 2014. The guys who were insisting that the game should MAKE PEOPLE USE COVER MORE because otherwise it was TOO EASY because the first thing I think when I see 'game about power armor cyber ninjas with hell-dimension magic' is "we take cover all the time and peek out to shoot."

Also, "mod for it by giving up damage" is, again, a ludicrous argument. There is a reason Call of Duty took out Stopping Power after Modern Warfare 2, and it's because "giving up damage" is almost always suboptimal. Note that in CoD you were giving up a slight increase in damage for doubled switch and reload speeds for all weapons, to boot.