Remove Stasis from Limbo

[ZodiacShinryu]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

The ideal solution we be to leave Limbo how he is now and let teammates have a toggle switch in their options menu for rift mechanics. That way if Limbo has enemies under under stasis or they are just on the opposite side of the rift as you, then you are not effected at all. You when you shoot all of your projectiles fly and hit regardless of if they are in the rift. Then Limbo is just good crowd control for his team.

Needs more details. Does this toggle also exempt you from ALL rift mechanics? If it does then maybe; if not then no. Limbo does much more than just CC if you let him. If you also don't want energy and protections then that is on you.

24 minutes ago, Bobtm said:

A simple solution which avoids a nerf would simply be to make it so that allied gunfire is uneffected by Stasis' freeze.

See, Stasis freezing the gunfire of allies doesn't serve any semblance of balance.  Melee is already outright stronger than guns are, but lacks range comparatively.  But while Stasis is up range isn't required strictly.  Seeing as everything is already made helpless.  Allowing allies to fire their guns normally won't make Stasis any more overpowered than it already is, and will alleviate a lot of the grievances that folks have when dealing with the poorly designed frame that is Limbo.

Also a similar argument. Stasis and the Rift are more than just CC. If you are worrying about Stasis it means you are in the Rift. While you are in the Rift you are safe from like 95% of situations outside the Rift (also vice versa). Everyone can make their own judgements on whether they need to change the plane they are in (rolling out or move out of Cataclysm) to take care of whatever situation. However while in the Rift, Limbo has the ultimate control making being in the Rift a near invulnerable zone. That is the reason for the melee restriction balance for Stasis: Near effective invincibility. People have made Limbo vs Vauban comparisons but Vauban doesn't technically protect you from outside sources quite like Stasis. Also a note that the Rift is feeding you increased energy regen to use abilities which in most cases do not discriminate the between the planes.

Limbo problems tend to be player problems (wjether it is the Limbo or his allies). If the mission requires you to kill things then a Limbo should be reading the situation and toggling Stasis unless you are in a situation where loss of stasis is death of any squad. If you don't need to kill things then players can do whatever they want but if they are going to be under the protection of the Rift then just go melee things or use your powers. He is not stopping you otherwise and it is sort of ironical that people complain about lazy Limbos preventing them from playing when they are themselves too lazy to play the game to its fullest. And trolls are just trolls and they are not isolated to just Limbo.

As far as adjustments... a range reduction on Cataclysm is probably not the worst thing. There is no reason for a Cataclysm to cover a whole tile. Cataclysm could also start small and expand to max range, artificially making more room for a time outside cataclysm and not locking down whole tiles immediately (builds up detonation strength as it expands as well). Stasis itself could have a reduced duration to reinforce that it should toggled and add to the upkeep as Limbo gets energy from rift kills anyway (and the rift in general). As far as Banished targets go, I think one of the better suggestions I heard was to work the Melee Channel system in. It uses energy it might as well be considered similar to power damage and hit enemies between planes. It could also be used to "pull" enemies out of the Rift to the be damaged normally. This way players have methods to take care of banished targets simply.

[tychondus]

@OP

You know what, while you're on the hate bandwagon (instead of learning to adapt) wwhy dont we stretch this remove-skill petition to every other warframes out there.

I think Banshee's number 4 should be removed, because its anti fun and helps farmers farm Hydron efficiently. But i feel bored standing there doing nothing.

I think Frost Snowglobe should be removed, because theres are idiots out there that spam this everywhere thus affecting my gameplay of shooting enemies from a safe distance.

I think Embers number 4 should be removed because its basically a 'I win' button for low level content.

I think Nezha's number 4 should be removed, because i cant headshot enemies when they are upside down.

I think Rhinos Stomp should be removed, because like Nezha, it flips the enemies upside down and hard to headshot.

I think Loki's stealth should be removed because its basically an 'cant-touch-this' button.

I think Volt's Speed should be removed, because it COMPLETELY CHANGES my movement speed. Thus affecting my gameplay, severly

I think....the list goes on. But, i don't hear anyone whining about these frames for affecting and changing anothers' gameplay. Instead people keep jumping on the Nerf Limbo bandwagon driving the same useless argument everytime. Limbo is a great frame and his rework is amazing! Well done DE! Might i suggest that either you learn how to play so that you can adapt and teach bad limbo players or request the said limbo player to not use X skill and give and explanation why. Or simply leave the squad and form a non Limbo squad. Unlike other mindless hit-X-button-to-win warframes, Limbo is a very advanced and diverse frame and takes time and effort to learn. Which it appears you don't have, and thus you feel better if X skill was removed so that YOUR experience of warframe is good, while giving no consideration to others that put time and effort into learning how he works. I think for the moment Limbo is in a very good spot. And should be left alone. If anything DE need to put out a tutorial or a beginners build and guide for this advanced warframe.

Edited February 15, 2018 by tychondus

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

19 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Needs more details. Does this toggle also exempt you from ALL rift mechanics? If it does then maybe; if not then no. Limbo does much more than just CC if you let him. If you also don't want energy and protections then that is on you.

Well it's an optional toggle. So regardless of energy or potential protection, people with the Rift switch off are going to be happy because it's what they want. This idea is for teammates who just don't want any Rift stuff. There's a fair amount of those people out there. That includes me. I love playing Limbo, but it is irritating getting in squads with people who don't know how to play him in a considerate way.

[ZodiacShinryu]

Well my remark was more about what the scope of the toggle was going to do less about whether it was optional (which I assumed).

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

This idea is for teammates who just don't want any Rift stuff.

I'm just going to assume this as the Rift does nothing for people with the toggle off. You don't have to worry about getting shots/bullets stuck in Stasis (because you can't go into the Rift), you can be hit from anything anywhere even in Cataclysm but can hit anything anywhere (because you ignore the Rift plane distinctions) and you don't get the energy regen (because again you can't go to the Rift). The point is you are not getting the benefits of the Rift while ignoring the drawbacks. And as my first statement goes then "Maybe" this could be a solution. I personally don't like the slippery slope of toggling what you do and do not like of ability effect of allies because it opens certain risks of exploitation but in this case Limbo has a mechanic that he solely in the game commands with near non-existent counter (even for enemies). It is a coop game at heart after all and at some point people should play nicely with others without being forced to despite the discrepancy in powers.

That being said (and not considerate of me at all) if such a toggle existed, whether I am Limbo or not, I hope these people can take care of themselves or risk using all their revives (and I suggest others all consider such action) because I don't have time to take care of people that could prevent the situation by just playing the game as it was intended.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

38 minutes ago, tychondus said:

I think Banshee's number 4 should be removed, because its anti fun and helps farmers farm Hydron efficiently. But i feel bored standing there doing nothing.

I think Frost Snowglobe should be removed, because theres are idiots out there that spam this everywhere thus affecting my gameplay of shooting enemies from a safe distance.

I think Embers number 4 should be removed because its basically a 'I win' button for low level content.

I think Nezha's number 4 should be removed, because i cant headshot enemies when they are upside down.

I think Rhinos Stomp should be removed, because like Nezha, it flips the enemies upside down and hard to headshot.

I think Loki's stealth should be removed because its basically an 'cant-touch-this' button.

 

Careful there - iterating all of these just highlights  a single way they might negatively impact other players. Limbo can do ALL of the above.  At the same time. (well if upside=inside rift negating shooting at all).   Then add to all that it its basically a press 4 to win sortie mobile defense (or so people like to claim). 

I personally can't stand Limbo's in my squad - I don't care if they think they are gods gift, ARE gods gift, or are just trash.  But I've never rage quit about it, complained in chat about it - I just leave squad when the mission is over and move on. If they're having fun and we're not failing its just a few minutes - I'm sure my gameplay with some frame and/or weapon at sometime has annoyed others and they were decent enough to live and let live, not complain, and part ways at the end.  Actually, there was one LoR i was doing and the dummy kept putting up the cataclysm while we were trying to interact with buttons in both the security room AND the hijack... I think I might have had a few choice words for him in chat LOL.

 

 

[PatternistSlave]

17 hours ago, Zhoyzu said:

Every time i log onto warframe to play the game, i generally intend to play the game. I mean why else would i log on?

And yet we have a warframe in the game that completely removes game play from the game. Which absolutely boggles the mind.

When you hop into a mission and see a map wide cataclysm, its time to leave and find a different mission. 

Before stasis, limbo was playable and decent as you could kill things and do stuff while limbo did useless limbo things. BUT you could still play the game. The only thing limbo is good for is cheesing the kela de thaym boss during a sortie. Beyond that, its only use is to troll people in the game by removing game play from the game.

 

So, since i like many others enjoy playing the game can we please remove the ability ( or frame ) that prevents, entirely, the game from being played?

Yeah I mean let's just remove an interesting and unique ability because you can't figure out how to use your melee.

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

19 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Well my remark was more about what the scope of the toggle was going to do less about whether it was optional (which I assumed).

I'm just going to assume this as the Rift does nothing for people with the toggle off. You don't have to worry about getting shots/bullets stuck in Stasis (because you can't go into the Rift), you can be hit from anything anywhere even in Cataclysm but can hit anything anywhere (because you ignore the Rift plane distinctions) and you don't get the energy regen (because again you can't go to the Rift). The point is you are not getting the benefits of the Rift while ignoring the drawbacks. And as my first statement goes then "Maybe" this could be a solution. I personally don't like the slippery slope of toggling what you do and do not like of ability effect of allies because it opens certain risks of exploitation but in this case Limbo has a mechanic that he solely in the game commands with near non-existent counter (even for enemies). It is a coop game at heart after all and at some point people should play nicely with others without being forced to despite the discrepancy in powers.

That being said (and not considerate of me at all) if such a toggle existed, whether I am Limbo or not, I hope these people can take care of themselves or risk using all their revives (and I suggest others all consider such action) because I don't have time to take care of people that could prevent the situation by just playing the game as it was intended.

Yeah I didn't go into detail because since there are several ways that Limbo's rift offends people, a partial switch wouldn't really solve the problem. And being able to take advantage of his energy regen or some sort of protection even with the switch off doesn't seem like a realistic change that DE would ever make. Better to let people turn it off entirely if that's what they want. I think it's realistic to make that sort of an exception for Limbo's mechanics considering the massive (and absolute) effect that he has on teammates. It's basically like rolling to exit banish, only it's for everything and it stays off until switched back on.

[(XBOX)SEE MR TOLKIEN]

Hello Guys, 

Just wanted to throw my two cents in here. 

I will admit that Limbo has one of the coolest designs in Warframe and I don't mean just the way he looks. The concept and the way his powers are sooo cool and he is quite useful in so many situations and missions. 

However many more players prefer to shoot stuff in the face, then smash the players in the face. 

I will admit some days I am glad that whatever mission I am playing is being made easier by Limbo, but most times I actually want to work for the reward.

The last problem, is that some players don't know how to use him and as result end up causing more deaths in the squad then actually being helpful. Of course this isn't Limbo's fault, but it does add to the frustration.

[tychondus]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Careful there - iterating all of these just highlights  a single way they might negatively impact other players. Limbo can do ALL of the above.  At the same time. (well if upside=inside rift negating shooting at all).   Then add to all that it its basically a press 4 to win sortie mobile defense (or so people like to claim). 

Can you please put up a link of video evidence to prove that Limbo can do ALL of the above said things; such as

He is able to wipe the map like banshee/ember.

Drop many cataclysm like frost can with snowglobe all over the map and remain persistent until destroyed.

Invert enemies like Nezha/Rhino.

Vastly increase other players speed affecting their movement and overall gameplay?

I for one have not seen anything of the sort to this day. But i am aware that people like to over exaggerate things as if it gives the illusion that it adds some sort of substance to drive their point forward. I am eager to see how he can do ALL of that. If he truly can do ALL the above, then he is way too op, and needs to be reworked. That's only if he can.

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Actually, there was one LoR i was doing and the dummy kept putting up the cataclysm while we were trying to interact with buttons in both the security room AND the hijack... I think I might have had a few choice words for him in chat LOL.

This is the problem that i find with Limbo there is stupidly limited information about this warframe. And the only real source of any information on this warframes ability and how they synergise with his other abilities and limitations can be only gotten from other advanced Limbo players, that have spent countless hours to figure how he works. Its now DE turn to go the extra mile and explain how his skills can interact with object and enemies. Because they are not straightforward. And this should be done either post or pre building this warframe. I think this will go a long way to understand how he works and it will help to alleviate alot of misunderstanding and misuse about him.

Edited February 15, 2018 by tychondus

[richardtrle]

When I start reading I thought there would be a comprehensive post about Limbo, but the post is like everyone else, complaining about Limbo. Bu this one is better, is probably written in a childish and sour manner. You could almost taste the sour on his text, so palpable. Anyways, lets get mature here, if you say that a warframe or any part of it should be removed without providing any strong argument without downpouring feelings, well there you go, you got lots of pepps attention. Which is no the case. I don't play Limbo, even though mine has a somewhat decent ranged based build. But if you never played with Limbo, please don't say childish things like that OP. It makes me pitty you. So no Stasis is not going to be removed, and if you don't like it there are two basic options. First, use your meele, second outside Limbo cataclysm weapons work phew, that is nice.

[HisokaXEveryone]

So, this is somewhat off topic, but it seems somewhat relevant since it might help the OP get along with Limbos . . . I've been slowly working on writing out a full guide for Limbo, and what I'm about to post are excerpts from the sections on "Working with a Limbo", "Dealing with a problem Limbo" and "solo-queuing as Limbo". Note that, A: This is still an incomplete guide, so please excuse its roughness, typos, run on sentences, and other problems. They'll be fixed before the full guide's released. And B: that when I mention small bubble, I'm referring to using Narrow Minded to shrink its size. That mod should basically be considered as required for all Limbo players before they enter most solo-queue mission types both due to its usefulness and the fact that when Limbo does get in the way, the reaction from other players can be unpleasant.
 

Working with a Limbo:

 

Working alongside a friendly Limbo is generally a straightforward experience, simply remember that rolling will break you out of the void as long as you are not in a catacylsm, and that if enemies in the void are frozen, you will need to use melee attacks or Warframe abilities to do anything.

 

Speaking of warframe abilities, if you are Mesa, Excalibur or another strong ability-based warframe, use them from the void! You can safely use any warframe ability to target enemies inside or outside the void, which can both prevent enemies from harming you, and give you constant energy regeneration.

 

You should generally not attempt to simply fire through and break stasis, as this is both very annoying to your Limbo, and fairly pointless. Not only does Stasis cost little, but Limbo gains energy from every kill he makes in the void and can just recast it every time it breaks.

 

If you feel you absolutely must use ranged weapons, step outside of the bubble and fire at enemies before they reach it. And while you are there, feel free to help the Limbo out by killing any nullifiers you can before they pop his bubble. While he can usually kill them quickly enough, he is extremely squishy and there is no way for him to attack them without stepping outside of the void.

 

Finally, do not blow a revive unless you really want to get right back into the fight! Unless there is a nullifier right on top of you, Limbo can, and should, revive you from the void any time you go down. 

 

How to deal with a problem Limbo

 

Sadly, there is not much you can do to deal with a Limbo who has decided to make your life miserable. Ask him to stop whatever is the problem, and see if he's intentionally trolling or not. If not, everything'll probably be fine from then on. If it IS intentional, please report him to Digital Extremes. If he is constantly banishing you despite you asking him not to, that probably counts as harrassment, and I'm pretty sure that IS a ban(ish)able offence. Obviously that won't help you complete the mission, but getting rid of a problem player is always a good thing. You can also try simply waiting him out, since as long as he is not personally killing things and you are leaving his void as soon as your banished, he will eventually run out of energy. This won't be quick, but it can be done. Also, consoles can be hacked by operators, so if you've finished the War Within you can just leave your frame and hack them that way. But if a Limbo just grabs the drive on mobile defense, steps into the void, and starts dancing, just report him and leave. He isn't worth you or anyone else's time.

Solo-Queuing as Limbo

Assassination: This is an odd mission type for Limbo, as he can be very useful for dealing with certain bosses by placing a cataclysm before certain periodic attacks happen such as Kela De Thaym's orbital barrage, but in general Limbo's primary use will be simply reviving teammates when they go down. Thanks to most boss's slow and predictable abilities, Limbo himself should never die, and he can revive teammates in complete safety from the void. As for bubble type, it generally does not matter much, as it will almost never be active for more than a few seconds.

 

Assault: As of writing this there is only one of these missions in the game, but it is a decent place for Limbo. In the first stage he can use cataclysm and stasis to defend the charge, in the second he can banish any enemies near a console so that he can safely hack it, for the third another staticlysm combo can keep the point safe, and while he does little in the forth stage, he is hardly a detriment to the team either.

 

Capture: Sadly, Limbo does not contribute much here. He can banish enemies near the target to get them to go away, and he can capture the target from the rift. But beyond that, he is simply an additional gun. That said, there are few frames that actually add much to this short mission type, so he won't be worse than most either.

 

Defense: Small bubble is ideal, as the bubble never needs to be that large to protect the point, and the extended duration helps limit the periods in which the enemy can attack the target. As for the details of Limbo's use, by placing cataclysm down, he prevents the point from being harmed at all by enemies of any level, and as long as his cataclysm is regularly refreshed and not disrupted by his death, the only way for enemies to remove it are with ability-canceling skills, such as nullifier bubbles.

Things change a little in sortie defense missions, but not by much. Simply banish the NPC himself, and then refresh the effect when it wears off to make him invincible for the entirety of the level. Also, Limbo can safely revive him from the void, so even if the target does somehow take damage, it should be easy to heal him and keep going.

 

Excavation: Another place where Limbo can be a god, by placing a stasis bubble over the excavator, Limbo can completely block the machine from being harmed. Additionally, if the level does not include a way for the enemy to remove his bubble, Limbo can place a cataclysm on it as soon as the drilling time drops below a certain duration, and then he and his teammates can simply move on to the next machine, greatly speeding up excavation runs, especially when working with another frame with defensive abilities. Small bubble is generally best, but note that too small of a bubble can inadequately protect the machine, so it is best to experiment and see for yourself.

 

Exterminate: Sadly, Limbo is only a healer here. This mission is all about killing enemies quickly and moving on, and there is not much that he can do here that helps with that. Picking Limbo here is unlikely to cause a problem, but the only real way to help the team out is by reviving them if they fall. Otherwise, it is probably best to simply not use any of your abilities.

 

Hijack: Big bubbles can make this mission type into something of a joke: simply place the catacylsm in the path of the vehicle, activate stasis, and any time it starts to get near the edge of the bubble, move the catacylsm down the road a bit. As long as you keep an eye out for nullifiers and keep the two abilities active, the vehicle should reach the exit without taking a single point of damage.

 

Hive Sabotage: This is another mission where Limbo does not provide an amazing amount of utility, but due to the mission's nature there are few frames that really help. He can at least step into the void, ignore all of the enemies, and focus entirely on hunting down pustules, but beyond simply having a safe set of eyes and his normal kit. Note that large cataclysms can actually be used here to great effect in a team setting, but because many of the nodes will be on the ceiling or otherwise out of reach of melee weapons, using a large bubble in a pug may lead to some very frustrated teammates.

 

Infested Salvage: It is a good thing that there is only one of these mission types, as all of Limbo's abilities are unwise to use in a random group. Not only is there nothing for his bubble to defend, it stops players from being able to activate any of the level's machines. And banishing enemies to the Rift is equally counter-productive, as without the items they drop the mission cannot be completed. While there is an interesting strategy that can be used with a coordinated team, without that coordination Limbo is, at best, an additional gun, and at worst a serious annoyance.

 

Interception: Another area where medium or large bubbles are ideal: just set down a cataclysm large enough to cover any of the terminals at a point, and then go reinforce another area. Anytime your cataclysm breaks or starts to run out, simply go back, kill everything, and recast the ability. As long as you watch the ability timer and don't die, you will never lose that point.

Mobile Defense: This is one of the most well-known Limbo missions, but he basically just does the same thing he does in defense. Place down a cataclysm, activate stasis, and kill any nullifiers who start to get near the point. There is no reason to have a large bubble in this.

 

Rescue: While Limbo is not amazing in this mode, he does have two ways of using banish to contribute: First, he can simply use banish and stasis to instantly nullify any wardens or other enemies for long enough to safely hack the terminals. Additionally, by banishing the target after the rescue he can make sure it does not die even if the team is somehow slowed down. However, since most teams simply head to the exit as fast as possible and the NPC teleports to keep up, its rare for there to be any serious threat to worry about. The Narrow Minded build is still slightly better thanks to the extended duration, but cataclysm size is rarely an issue.

 

Sabotage: How useful or not Limbo is depends on the particular version of Sabotage mission you're doing, but he usually provides some benefit through cataclysm. On Uranus, Orokin, and Earth missions he can defend points with it, and on others he can usually quickly break open all of the destructibles by placing and then immediately removing the ability.

 

Spy: This is one of Limbo's strongest mission types, and even many of the players that hate him are aware how good he can be at it. His most well-known trick is simply stepping into the void to bypass Corpus lasers, Grineer doorways, and other similar traps. He can also use banish to destroy any cameras instantly and silently, or combine it with stasis to quietly remove an enemy from the area for a minute or so. Small bubble users can use it to destroy cameras behind small walls, while ballsy Limbo's who are quick at hacking and have access to their operator can simply activate stasis, and then fire an extremely large cataclysm over the entire spy area, exit their frame, and then use the operator to hack any terminals. The only other frame that is nearly as capable at spy missions is Loki, and even he cannot always clear them as quickly.

 

Survival: And following one of Limbo's strongest solo-queue missions, we end on one of his weakest. Limbo can be enormously powerful here, but the sad fact is that even though this can be an amazing place for Limbo, the general community is so out of tune with his potential strategies that anyone who enters survival planning on using any of his abilities at all are probably just going to anger their teammates, no matter how effective the strategy is. Which means that in a PuG, the only thing Limbo can really safely do is be a source of gunfire and revive any fallen teammates. Bubble size is inconsequential.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, while I get the impression that most Limbo haters aren't actually interested in learning how to deal with him, I hope that if you DO read this you'll come away a bit more tolerant of Limbo's kit. I know that he can be annoying, and yes, even I hate how prevalent huge-bubble Limbo's are(Seriously, it might be better for DE to shrink his base bubble size down or just GIVE him a copy of Narrow Minded when working on his quest, the mod is that important), but hopefully this should help.

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

14 hours ago, Whooohooo said:

That will kill frost....

 

A fair point that I hadn't considered, but less of a priority in my opinion.

Frost would still be a viable choice while Limbo could be used without disrupting everyone's game play.

I like Limbo. I love the new "dash into rift" mechanic. Unfortunately, he just ruins your squads enjoyment of the game by having too much control over the way they get to play.

 

14 hours ago, Whooohooo said:

And that kinda naive... they will still complain about banish next

 

I prefer "optimistic".

Edited February 15, 2018 by (XB1)INe Saninus

[Anthraxicus]

On 14/02/2018 at 7:37 AM, Zhoyzu said:

Every time i log onto warframe to play the game, i generally intend to play the game. I mean why else would i log on?

And yet we have a warframe in the game that completely removes game play from the game. Which absolutely boggles the mind.

When you hop into a mission and see a map wide cataclysm, its time to leave and find a different mission. 

Before stasis, limbo was playable and decent as you could kill things and do stuff while limbo did useless limbo things. BUT you could still play the game. The only thing limbo is good for is cheesing the kela de thaym boss during a sortie. Beyond that, its only use is to troll people in the game by removing game play from the game.

 

So, since i like many others enjoy playing the game can we please remove the ability ( or frame ) that prevents, entirely, the game from being played?

I beg to differ. Operator mode is far better and effective at that. Just place your warframe on top of those switches, enter in void mode and cheese the rest of the battle.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Anthraxicus

[KIDdAe]

Biggest problem I see with Statis is that there is no information given to ally to know how to damage ennemies or what the **** is happening.

If a player has never seen this before, doesn't know the mod, and never has played limbo, how is he supposed to know that he should melee ? (Yeah, like I was the first time)

 

[Mr.Snipersmiley]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

The ideal solution we be to leave Limbo how he is now and let teammates have a toggle switch in their options menu for rift mechanics. That way if Limbo has enemies under under stasis or they are just on the opposite side of the rift as you, then you are not effected at all. You when you shoot all of your projectiles fly and hit regardless of if they are in the rift. Then Limbo is just good crowd control for his team.

That would be astronomically over powered. Being able to shoot enemies while being impervious to bullet fire and the enemies can’t fight back would break everything.

 

15 hours ago, (Xbox One)INe Saninus said:

Why not just ask for stasis to slow instead of freeze?

Make it a 90% slow.

Allow gunfire.

Limbo fixed. Boom.

 

Or the player base can bring a melee to a mission and use that to kill

or the player base can learn how to play with limbo even if he is trolling

OOOOOOOORRRRRR the player base can learn how to play limbo

limbo is an amazing warframe which was a huge leap from what he was before. He is in a really good spot right now period.

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

1 hour ago, Mr.Snipersmiley said:

Or the player base can bring a melee to a mission and use that to kill

or the player base can learn how to play with limbo even if he is trolling

OOOOOOOORRRRRR the player base can learn how to play limbo

limbo is an amazing warframe which was a huge leap from what he was before. He is in a really good spot right now period.

No one's arguing on whether he's powerful or if this iteration is a vast improvement over his original incarnation.

Expecting 3 other people to have to completely change their play style based off on 1 player's choice is unreasonable.

 

I say this as someone who likes Limbo and would love to use him more. Unfortunately, he disrupts the game too much right now.

 

My suggestion makes Limbo not only a viable option, but a pleasant one too play with on your team.

-Functionally, a slow instead of stop would provide almost the same exact gameplay while removing the frustration for both user and squad mates.

It would allow gun play.

 

It would remain balanced by:

-still only allowing damage while on the same plain

-increasing the threat of enemies forces slightly.

You wouldn't be able to just afk. You'd have to engage the enemies on objectives and still maintain situational awareness.

 

Leaving it "as is" clearly isn't the answer. One look at the forums will tell you that.

 

A slow instead of stop is my suggestion to maintain theme and game play loop, but ease frustration.

[Nerdonis]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

Well it's an optional toggle. So regardless of energy or potential protection, people with the Rift switch off are going to be happy because it's what they want. This idea is for teammates who just don't want any Rift stuff. There's a fair amount of those people out there. That includes me. I love playing Limbo, but it is irritating getting in squads with people who don't know how to play him in a considerate way.

You really can't do this without dramatically shortening the length of limbo's abilities though and doing that would run him into the ground.

90 seconds of enemies frozen in place where the rest of the team can freely shoot them would just lead to Max range limbo's becoming standard fare in pretty much any endless mission and people would complain he's op.

Because limbo had such a direct effect on enemies with his stasis, there no reasonable way to argue that opting out of his rift can completely leave you divorced from any benefit

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

1 hour ago, Mr.Snipersmiley said:

That would be astronomically over powered. Being able to shoot enemies while being impervious to bullet fire and the enemies can’t fight back would break everything.

Do you think I'm saying that allies would have bullets passing through them with rift mechanics turned off? Because no that's not what I'm saying. I think players should have the option to play the game as if Limbo was not there if that's what they want. But, exercising that option would mean giving up any potential benefits Limbo offers as well. So if you're in a Cataclysm, or if stasis is on, or a bunch of enemies are banished, you could just shoot enemies normally as if none of it was there. And if you're outside Cataclysm and an enemy is in, they could shoot you too. It's just the "let me go back to normal Warframe" button. I think it's perfectly reasonable to make an exception for Limbo's mechanics because he has such an absolute effect on whether his squad can actually attack. Now if you're saying that you think it's game breaking to let allies take advantage of Limbo's great crowd control, I have have to disagree. First, if they happen to be in a situation where they want to melee, they can already use the CC to its fullest benefit. Also there's no shortage of great CC in the game. Other frames can already hard CC at high range with immediate recastability. Also, Limbo is already game breaking which is why we're having this discussion. This would be a net of less broken. And if the CC is to much, maybe DE turn down the duration a bit just to even things out.

[Nerdonis]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

Do you think I'm saying that allies would have bullets passing through them with rift mechanics turned off? Because no that's not what I'm saying. I think players should have the option to play the game as if Limbo was not there if that's what they want. But, exercising that option would mean giving up any potential benefits Limbo offers as well. So if you're in a Cataclysm, or if stasis is on, or a bunch of enemies are banished, you could just shoot enemies normally as if none of it was there. And if you're outside Cataclysm and an enemy is in, they could shoot you too. It's just the "let me go back to normal Warframe" button. I think it's perfectly reasonable to make an exception for Limbo's mechanics because he has such an absolute effect on whether his squad can actually attack. Now if you're saying that you think it's game breaking to let allies take advantage of Limbo's great crowd control, I have have to disagree. First, if they happen to be in a situation where they want to melee, they can already use the CC to its fullest benefit. Also there's no shortage of great CC in the game. Other frames can already hard CC at high range with immediate recastability. Also, Limbo is already game breaking which is why we're having this discussion. This would be a net of less broken. And if the CC is to much, maybe DE turn down the duration a bit just to even things out.

How would enemies affected by stasis fire back though? You're asking for the game to handle the same enemies completely differently while playing the same mission together.

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

1 minute ago, Nerdonis said:

How would enemies affected by stasis fire back though? You're asking for the game to handle the same enemies completely differently while playing the same mission together.

In that scenario I was just mentioning Cataclysm. Stasis is a CC so yeah they can't shoot you if that's on for a completely different reason.

[(PSN)Jedi_Arts_]

14 minutes ago, Nerdonis said:

there no reasonable way to argue that opting out of his rift can completely leave you divorced from any benefit

True. I mean I've definitely noticed how much benefit the CC would have. Although we still have to acknowledge that this sort of benefit exist in its full capacity for melee weapons right now. Also you still get his protection and the energy regen. He's also not the only frame that can hard CC with massive range on a repeated basis. Vauban, Rhino, Frost, Nezha can, and if you count Blinds then Excalibur and Mirage can get in on that too. Obviously, the big difference here is duration, but I wouldn't mind DE turning it down in exchange for a change that's just better for the game's health. And I don't think it would destroy him as a frame. You would just need to be alert to your timers. Generally I'm just concerned about the player experience and I think that's worth more than things potentially being a bit better than they should be. OP is almost omnipresent in this game anyways.

[Nerdonis]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

True. I mean I've definitely noticed how much benefit the CC would have. Although we still have to acknowledge that this sort of benefit exist in its full capacity for melee weapons right now. Also you still get his protection and the energy regen. He's also not the only frame that can hard CC with massive range on a repeated basis. Vauban, Rhino, Frost, Nezha can, and if you count Blinds then Excalibur and Mirage can get in on that too. Obviously, the big difference here is duration, but I wouldn't mind DE turning it down in exchange for a change that's just better for the game's health. And I don't think it would destroy him as a frame. You would just need to be alert to your timers. Generally I'm just concerned about the player experience and I think that's worth more than things potentially being a bit better than they should be. OP is almost omnipresent in this game anyways.

Yeah I definitely think there are areas where tweaks are valid, but how his cc works is fundamentally different from any frame you mentioned.

Rhino is hard CC, but doesn't affect new enemies entering the radius. Vauban does affect enemies entering, but has an upper limit and neither of them stop enemies from shooting from outside the range. Frost blocks from the outside but is limited on effect inside the bubble to slow which is useful, but the bubble is also hp based and requires much more upkeep. Nezha I don't play, but from what I've seen, his effect is along similar lines as rhino and therefore suffers from similar limitations

I like where limbo is at in the game primarily because you can point to other frames that do something similar, but never to something identical and within his niche, he is incredibly useful.

QoL is a valid concern, but any changes need to be well thought out because most changes I've seen either homogenize him or Nerf him into the ground or ignore existing technical limitations of the game

[(PSN)Dublincore]

On 14/2/2018 at 10:37 AM, Zhoyzu said:

So, since i like many others enjoy playing the game can we please remove the ability ( or frame ) that prevents, entirely, the game from being played?

No thanks, because it doesn't prevent anything. Even inside a catalyst with Stasis you can shoot (bullets will hit once the duration has expired) and use melee. 

If you're experience with Limbo players is so bad probably you're matchmaking with very low level players (they don't know how to use Limbo at all, generally). Personally i've met many good and friendly players with Limbo, but usually MR 15 and up. Nothing to complain. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by (PS4)Dublincore

[highestcrab3]

Stasis is a great CC but sooo annoying if you want to level gear and end up in a mission with a stasis limbo GG you don't get any XP because nothing dies or can be since you cant shoot in the void because time is basically stopped and you cant shoot from outside because they are in a different dimension. all in all stasis is just very annoying and really only useful if you are doing a mission that you are not ready to take on and don't wanna deal with failing or trying to win.

[Mr.Snipersmiley]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Jedi_Arts_ said:

Do you think I'm saying that allies would have bullets passing through them with rift mechanics turned off? Because no that's not what I'm saying. I think players should have the option to play the game as if Limbo was not there if that's what they want. But, exercising that option would mean giving up any potential benefits Limbo offers as well. So if you're in a Cataclysm, or if stasis is on, or a bunch of enemies are banished, you could just shoot enemies normally as if none of it was there. And if you're outside Cataclysm and an enemy is in, they could shoot you too. It's just the "let me go back to normal Warframe" button. I think it's perfectly reasonable to make an exception for Limbo's mechanics because he has such an absolute effect on whether his squad can actually attack. Now if you're saying that you think it's game breaking to let allies take advantage of Limbo's great crowd control, I have have to disagree. First, if they happen to be in a situation where they want to melee, they can already use the CC to its fullest benefit. Also there's no shortage of great CC in the game. Other frames can already hard CC at high range with immediate recastability. Also, Limbo is already game breaking which is why we're having this discussion. This would be a net of less broken. And if the CC is to much, maybe DE turn down the duration a bit just to even things out.

The way you made it seem is that the mission would act as if it was a 3 person squad but in reality it’s a 4 person with limbo being the fourth and that you’d play as if he wasn’t there. So if the enemies are being stasised by the LIMBO the one that’s the 4th person, you’d be able to shoot the STASISED enemies without them shooting back or moving because stasis l8mbo is still there.

TL;DR the way you made it seem is that you turn off limbo abilities in the setting and none of the abilities affect you?