Daily Log-in Highly Unfair

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

4 minutes ago, Xarian said:

Because there are a lot of new players coming in for the (really good) new content, and they feel that many of the rewards - some of which are quite good, like the primed mods, the Zenistar, and the Zenith - are way out of reach. And, frankly, I agree with them. No matter how much time or effort you put into obtaining those login rewards, you, as a new player, cannot get them any faster. This makes new players lose enjoyment and helps drive them away - and having more players who enjoy and play the game is better for everyone.

Why should a new player be able to get these things any faster than those of us that were new players once and now have them? On the contrary, I would argue that NOT putting these rewards behind a time-gate is just going to get Warframe a bunch of 90 day or 6-month wonders. You've seen it before, players get all they can get from the game too fast, they start whining the game is boring and they have nothing left to look forward to earning in the game. Those players end up leaving.

9 minutes ago, Xarian said:

I don't like feeling pressured to log in while I'm out camping in the woods or have the flu (can't fall behind on the logins!), and I don't think it's good for the community, the game, or DE's revenue to keep up with the current system. You aren't "earning" something by logging in every day for 800 days - you aren't improving the community, you aren't playing the game, you aren't providing any revenue. You aren't even "putting in the time". You're simply starting the game and closing it 10 seconds later.

I don't think you meant this to be as offensive as it may come off to others, but here you're making assumptions about those that have followed this login system. I reveal this with a bit of embarrassment, be nice, I have put in 3,860 hours into Warframe. I don't just login for the reward and leave. (I'm actually afraid DE might force me to take a break! Let me get my codex scans in first!) I'm sure there are some players that fit your description, but I don't think a game should reward a player for how much revenue they provide either. Gaming used to be about beating challenges not about being human money dispensers.

I have to ask you what does any of the things you listed have to do with the standards that were set by DE. DE chose to implement this reward system, not the players as far as I know.  All DE asked of us was to log-in. If they had of told me to accumulate 500,000 headshots using MK-1 Paris with a damaged Serration mod to get Primed Shred, I would of done it! I want that Conclave syandana, but I suck at PvP, should I demand DE allow me to get it some other way? Is it fair to the skilled PvP players that have already earned it?

27 minutes ago, Xarian said:

If someone absolutely falls in love with the game, then they shouldn't have to wait 800 days to get all the login rewards.

On the contrary, I would say if someone absolutely falls in love with Warframe, then logging into it for 800 days would be no problem.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

Why should a new player be able to get these things any faster than those of us that were new players once and now have them? On the contrary, I would argue that NOT putting these rewards behind a time-gate is just going to get Warframe a bunch of 90 day or 6-month wonders. You've seen it before, players get all they can get from the game too fast, they start whining the game is boring and they have nothing left to look forward to earning in the game. Those players end up leaving.

I don't think you meant this to be as offensive as it may come off to others, but here you're making assumptions about those that have followed this login system. I reveal this with a bit of embarrassment, be nice, I have put in 3,860 hours into Warframe. I don't just login for the reward and leave. (I'm actually afraid DE might force me to take a break! Let me get my codex scans in first!) I'm sure there are some players that fit your description, but I don't think a game should reward a player for how much revenue they provide either. Gaming used to be about beating challenges not about being human money dispensers.

I have to ask you what does any of the things you listed have to do with the standards that were set by DE. DE chose to implement this reward system, not the players as far as I know.  All DE asked of us was to log-in. If they had of told me to accumulate 500,000 headshots using MK-1 Paris with a damaged Serration mod to get Primed Shred, I would of done it! I want that Conclave syandana, but I suck at PvP, should I demand DE allow me to get it some other way? Is it fair to the skilled PvP players that have already earned it?

On the contrary, I would say if someone absolutely falls in love with Warframe, then logging into it for 800 days would be no problem.

True...but games also used to cost money to buy, and even more money to play online....and even MORE money to get DLC.   DE doesn't charge a dime, but they still have bills to pay, so forgive them if they want to encourage a little spending, hm?

As for people who might just play for 4 or 6 months and then quit...Are they spending disproportionately more than us "long time players"?  If so, DE may not be as concerned about them quitting because, as you stated indirectly, more 6 month wonders will fill in when they leave...and DE will be able to keep the lights on!

As for this whole login system... I've posted my thoughts on a replacement for it somewhere in this messy thread.  I honestly don't have the time to look it up but feel free to search...  To summarize, however, I think it is fine if DE changes it.  It's fine if they don't.  I never play this game for rewards or free handouts or trophies or any of that.  

I play because I love the mother-f**king game.  And having access to playing it is the only "Reward" I need.

[Xarian]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

Why should a new player be able to get these things any faster than those of us that were new players once and now have them?

You have a lot of time spent, and you're posting here in a pretty constructive manner - if someone else wants to put in that much effort, then they should be able to get the login rewards too. Right now, however, someone could put in 120 minutes of gameplay (by logging in, then logging out 800 times) and get the same login rewards as you. Why is that okay? The rewards aren't given for dedication, they're just given for a combination of account age and use of DE's login servers.

 

26 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

I'm sure there are some players that fit your description, but I don't think a game should reward a player for how much revenue they provide either. Gaming used to be about beating challenges not about being human money dispensers.

I'm not making assumptions about you - I'm just saying that this is the most effective way of getting login rewards when you don't actually want to play the game. Logging in 800 days isn't beating a challenge - there's no skill involved and nothing you can do to improve, no matter how hard you try. It just requires you to click a button once per day, and make sure that you never take any vacations, get sick, or focus on your real-life work habits.

Would you consider it a good thing if I told you that I had the 800 day reward with 4 hours of gameplay, no money spent, and nothing but trolling and toxicity on the forums? What if I told you that I have a 120 day reward with 1500 hours played, $500 spent, and multiple accepted designs for Augments and Tennogen content? The bottom line is that the login reward system only rewards you for logging in. And logging in, by itself, is not valuable to anyone, nor does it show that I've accomplished anything.

 

29 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

If they had of told me to accumulate 500,000 headshots using MK-1 Paris with a damaged Serration mod to get Primed Shred, I would of done it! I want that Conclave syandana, but I suck at PvP, should I demand DE allow me to get it some other way? Is it fair to the skilled PvP players that have already earned it?

The conclave reward that you mentioned is exactly the perfect example that you're arguing against. A skilled person, and one who dedicates themselves, can earn that reward much more quickly than someone who doesn't even try. For example, I don't like conclave, but if I really wanted the awesome syandana then I'd go practice and get better at it (and I could do it relatively quickly). This is exactly the opposite of the login reward system.

And, as far as fairness, it's really easy to make things fair when rewards get easier to obtain - you just further reward people who have already obtained the reward. Using the conclave thing as an example, let's say that DE decides one day to cut the number of required headshots down to 5,000 instead of 500,000. Obviously people who managed to get that reward would be angry. But you can make it up by giving them an additional reward that is still valuable but not exclusive - things like platinum, legendary cores, event-limited weapons, weapon and warframe slots, etc. These are things that players could work at and get through normal gameplay through hard work and dedication - but they are still valuable.

 

31 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

Gaming used to be about beating challenges not about being human money dispensers.

Rewards should be given based on how much the player achieves and benefits the community as a whole. Even though you may not like it, spending money actually helps DE and benefits all of us. This isn't exactly Electronic Arts - the money isn't being spent financing @[DE]Rebecca and @[DE]Megan's cocaine-fueled binges on a private jet down to Guadalajara - it's being re-invested to help DE hire people like @[DE]Pablo who work their butts off to improve the game. And yes, I'm calling out Pablo specifically because he's done things like put in UI changes requested on Reddit literally three days earlier. Logging in 800 days didn't help hire him.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

True...but games also used to cost money to buy, and even more money to play online....and even MORE money to get DLC.   DE doesn't charge a dime, but they still have bills to pay, so forgive them if they want to encourage a little spending, hm?

I have no problems with DE encouraging spending, but this has nothing to do with what the person I was replying to was saying. This person indirectly implied that players that bring in more revenue should be rewarded, within the context of the log-in system rewards. When a player buys a Prime Access, I would argue, that they got their "reward"; Prime Access often comes with exclusive items.

This is a tightrope we're walking on right now, because rewarding players for spending money outside of the actual money transaction (like buying Prime Access) now moves us into the Pay to Win territory. What I mean to say is, if DE had chosen to give log-in rewards exclusively to players that spent x-amount of money, it would make Warframe a P2W game. The reason many people are against P2W games is because then it is no longer gaming; it is just a place to go to show off to other people how money you can afford to throw at the game.

I almost wish DE would start charging, because now we have people that feel that since they've spent x-amount of money on the game, they're entitled to everything, they should get special treatment, they're the real fans.  I digress...

Honestly, I would feel resentful if they implement a new system that allows players to get stuff earlier. My resentful little feelings won't hurt anyone and definitely not DE. I'll probably sulk a little while obsessively opening lockers on my newly broken Ember (assuming by that time consoles will have gotten the rework update), but I'll get over it. I'm just stating my opinion, which I feel is a fact, it's not fair; but neither is life.

I'll continue to love Warframe, because I'm from a generation that played games that only had two colors.

[Sahansral]

Can someone explain to me how four timegated weapons and two primed mods should be responsible for a single player abandoning a game with literally hundreds of weapons?

Even if such a player exists how does he/she manage the existance of the founders gear or primed chamber?

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

10 minutes ago, Xarian said:

You have a lot of time spent, and you're posting here in a pretty constructive manner - if someone else wants to put in that much effort, then they should be able to get the login rewards too. Right now, however, someone could put in 120 minutes of gameplay (by logging in, then logging out 800 times) and get the same login rewards as you. Why is that okay? The rewards aren't given for dedication, they're just given for a combination of account age and use of DE's login servers.

 

I'm not making assumptions about you - I'm just saying that this is the most effective way of getting login rewards when you don't actually want to play the game. Logging in 800 days isn't beating a challenge - there's no skill involved and nothing you can do to improve, no matter how hard you try. It just requires you to click a button once per day, and make sure that you never take any vacations, get sick, or focus on your real-life work habits.

Would you consider it a good thing if I told you that I had the 800 day reward with 4 hours of gameplay, no money spent, and nothing but trolling and toxicity on the forums? What if I told you that I have a 120 day reward with 1500 hours played, $500 spent, and multiple accepted designs for Augments and Tennogen content? The bottom line is that the login reward system only rewards you for logging in. And logging in, by itself, is not valuable to anyone, nor does it show that I've accomplished anything.

 

The conclave reward that you mentioned is exactly the perfect example that you're arguing against. A skilled person, and one who dedicates themselves, can earn that reward much more quickly than someone who doesn't even try. For example, I don't like conclave, but if I really wanted the awesome syandana then I'd go practice and get better at it (and I could do it relatively quickly). This is exactly the opposite of the login reward system.

And, as far as fairness, it's really easy to make things fair when rewards get easier to obtain - you just further reward people who have already obtained the reward. Using the conclave thing as an example, let's say that DE decides one day to cut the number of required headshots down to 5,000 instead of 500,000. Obviously people who managed to get that reward would be angry. But you can make it up by giving them an additional reward that is still valuable but not exclusive - things like platinum, legendary cores, event-limited weapons, weapon and warframe slots, etc. These are things that players could work at and get through normal gameplay through hard work and dedication - but they are still valuable.

 

Rewards should be given based on how much the player achieves and benefits the community as a whole. Even though you may not like it, spending money actually helps DE and benefits all of us. This isn't exactly Electronic Arts - the money isn't being spent financing @[DE]Rebecca and @[DE]Megan's cocaine-fueled binges on a private jet down to Guadalajara - it's being re-invested to help DE hire people like @[DE]Pablo who work their butts off to improve the game. And yes, I'm calling out Pablo specifically because he's done things like put in UI changes requested on Reddit literally three days earlier. Logging in 800 days didn't help hire him.

This post needs to be pinned or something.  Every point was perfectly made. Thank you!

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

I have no problems with DE encouraging spending, but this has nothing to do with what the person I was replying to was saying. This person indirectly implied that players that bring in more revenue should be rewarded, within the context of the log-in system rewards. When a player buys a Prime Access, I would argue, that they got their "reward"; Prime Access often comes with exclusive items.

This is a tightrope we're walking on right now, because rewarding players for spending money outside of the actual money transaction (like buying Prime Access) now moves us into the Pay to Win territory. What I mean to say is, if DE had chosen to give log-in rewards exclusively to players that spent x-amount of money, it would make Warframe a P2W game. The reason many people are against P2W games is because then it is no longer gaming; it is just a place to go to show off to other people how money you can afford to throw at the game.

I almost wish DE would start charging, because now we have people that feel that since they've spent x-amount of money on the game, they're entitled to everything, they should get special treatment, they're the real fans.  I digress...

Honestly, I would feel resentful if they implement a new system that allows players to get stuff earlier. My resentful little feelings won't hurt anyone and definitely not DE. I'll probably sulk a little while obsessively opening lockers on my newly broken Ember (assuming by that time consoles will have gotten the rework update), but I'll get over it. I'm just stating my opinion, which I feel is a fact, it's not fair; but neither is life.

I'll continue to love Warframe, because I'm from a generation that played games that only had two colors.

And much respect for that!  I'm in the same boat.  I  apologize, as well, if I misunderstood the context.  So many posts flooding this thread (more than it likely deserves) it's easy to miss a point.   

I never want to see DE turn this into a P2W.  I agree 200% with your points.  I do wish other people would understand why they can't just play for free forever and expect MORE of the company.

[(PSN)MsOroroMunroe]

Sometimes I get a neurode for logging in

There are people here suggesting that it should be a reward for completing a raid instead? 

One of the milestones gives a sigil, booster, and Orokin catalyst. Who wants that as a reward for beating the Teralyst? 

 

The game does reward you for completing tasks/missions. It also thanks you for logging in and playing the game. 

Where's the problem? 

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

11 minutes ago, Xarian said:

Right now, however, someone could put in 120 minutes of gameplay (by logging in, then logging out 800 times) and get the same login rewards as you. Why is that okay?

This is okay, because they are meeting the requirements set by DE. Think about it, even a scrub like this was willing to do this, why not a true fan of the game?

 

12 minutes ago, Xarian said:

It just requires you to click a button once per day, and make sure that you never take any vacations, get sick, or focus on your real-life work habits.

...and quite surprisingly many on this forum seem to feel like this is too hard!

 

14 minutes ago, Xarian said:

And logging in, by itself, is not valuable to anyone, nor does it show that I've accomplished anything.

You'd be surprised, on console, how many people end up buying a game because they see other people logged in to them. I don't buy for one bit that most people that have logged in over 400 days are the scrubs that just want the rewards. If you don't play the game why would you go through all the trouble to get the reward?

 

18 minutes ago, Xarian said:

Rewards should be given based on how much the player achieves and benefits the community as a whole.

Showing up and playing the game also benefits, because no one stays on a game where there's only like four people playing. That's why, even though I'm anti-social, I try to switch over to public at least once during a session.

 

[This_Machine]

I wouldn't keep logging in everyday if the system changed. I definitely would set Warframe aside if there was nothing to keep me coming back to it, but I'm too worried about falling behind on days so its working. Hell sometimes I even play a few missions when I login, but its been over two years now so maybe its just me and not the 40k concurrent daily players.

[Xarian]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

This is okay, because they are meeting the requirements set by DE.

Sorry, but this is circular reasoning. You're saying that DE's login reward system is okay because that's how they made the login reward system.

 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

Think about it, even a scrub like this was willing to do this, why not a true fan of the game?

This has been discussed multiple times, even in my last post. Basically, because being a "true fan of the game" isn't the same as logging in every day. You can be a "true fan of the game" and still have to go out of town for business. You can be a "true fan of the game" and have to go spend a few days with your sick family member. You can be a "true fan of the game" and not feel like playing a video game every day.

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

...and quite surprisingly many on this forum seem to feel like this is too hard!

You do realize that there's no actual skill involved in logging in, right? It's not "too hard", it's just not always desirable or possible. That's nowhere near the same as "too hard".

 

10 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

You'd be surprised, on console, how many people end up buying a game because they see other people logged in to them. I don't buy for one bit that most people that have logged in over 400 days are the scrubs that just want the rewards. If you don't play the game why would you go through all the trouble to get the reward?

Nobody said anything about "most people", and you shouldn't confuse that with the inherent problems in the system. Some people say, "I don't have time right now but I might play this game again some day, and I don't want to get behind on the login rewards." I've certainly done this with other games that have really punishing login streak rewards. And then there are other people who say, "I really like this game - why didn't I know about it earlier?" but despite running daily raids with their friends, still can't beat a 90 day login reward.

I play regularly with someone who just got the Azima last week and has been logging in every day - 100 day reward! This is a MR 24 player who knows more about the game than I do. It doesn't make sense that there's absolutely nothing that they can to do get the Primed Shred any faster. "Go back in time and start playing 500 days earlier" is not a solution.

 

16 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

Showing up and playing the game also benefits, because no one stays on a game where there's only like four people playing. That's why, even though I'm anti-social, I try to switch over to public at least once during a session.

Showing up and playing the game absolutely benefits. However, showing up, getting a login reward, and logging out does not.

I've had some pretty frustrating months where I logged into Warframe (or used a computer at all) just to keep my login reward up. Do you have any idea how crushing it is to encourage someone to log in to a game when they don't have the time or ability to do so? Like, yeah, it's bad enough that a hurricane just destroyed your internet, but now we're going to dock you 45 days of login time as well and there's nothing you can do to make up for it.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

The current system is fair - it is a level playing field for everyone.  

First lets look at WHY there is a login reward: Its not to reward people for logging claiming it and logging out. It is to try to get people in front of the game.  Maybe they don't intend to play, but they get their login reward and say "hey, maybe I'll play for a bit".  The game has MANY mechanisms to encourage people to come back day after day: MR test time gates, crafting time gates, login rewards.  They (DE) cast a wide net with lots of different bait to try to entice people to get on the game.

Next lets evaluate "Fair" - fair is the same for everyone.  Everyone who performs the same task, the same number of times, gets the same reward.  Its actually one of the fairest systems in WF in that there is no RNG behind it.

But what about the people who start yesterday - they have to wait 800 days to get XYZ? well - the people who started 800 days ago did to.  Students can't just sign up for public school, take the tests and if they pass, advance.  They actually have to have ATTENDENCE. If you miss too many days, even if you know your stuff and can pass a test, you are not going to advance.

But what about you? You can't login every day becuase your mommy doesn't let you play on weekdays, or your  job keeps you on the road, or what ever your sob story is.  Well  - tough. You want to say "well I could farm make-up points for 24 hours straight on saturday".  All your doing is shifting the problem elsewhere.  And out of the woodwork will come the "but the grind is too much", "its not fair because I can't play for 24 hours in a week, much less a day"

And lastly lets look at the rewards

• 50 Days - Imminent Eclipse Sigil, 3-day Affinity Booster, and Orokin Catalyst
• 100 Days - Azima (Comes with weapon slot and pre-installed Orokin Catalyst)
• 150 Days - Awakened Luna Sigil, 3-day Credit Booster, and Exilus Adapter
• 200 Days - Primed Fury (Unranked)
• 250 Days - Eternal Stasis Sigil, 3-day Affinity Booster, and Orokin Reactor
• 300 Days - Zenistar (Comes with weapon slot and pre-installed Orokin Catalyst)
• 350 Days - Solar Flare Sigil, 3-day Credit Booster, and Orokin Catalyst
• 400 Days - Primed Vigor (Unranked)
• 450 Days - Void Gate Sigil, 3-day Affinity Booster, and Exilus Adapter
• 500 Days - Zenith (Comes with weapon slot and pre-installed Orokin Catalyst)
• 550 Days - Lotus Deliverance Sigil, 3-day Credit Booster, and Orokin Reactor
• 600 Days - Primed Shred (Unranked)
• 650 Days - Spectral Tide Glyph, 3 Forma, and Orokin Reactor
• 700 Days - Sigma & Octantis (Comes with weapon slot and pre-installed Orokin Catalyst)
• 750 Days - Guiding Rose Glyph, 3-day Affinity Booster, and Exilus Adapter

Yup - a whopping 4 weapons: NONE of which are required to currently reach MR25, and even when MR26 is reachable, so all you have to do is wait for about 1 update that brings a few new weapons - OH THE HORROR.

And 3 mods - NONE of which are even remotely required.

I've been playing for about three years  - spring of 2015.   I'm almost 300 days behind in logins because I missed a pile of days.  Oh well. The system is fair, transparent, and not in anyway game changing.  

And lastly, its a game. get over it.

 

 

[QueenKharn]

All they are going to do is give newer players the option to choose which of those 50 day segments to pursue. That's even more fair, imo.

Edited February 26, 2018 by KokoroWish

[CaptainZgred]

Just passing by, is that a meme thread?

[Maggituete]

I still don't get either side.

If you enjoy the game, you play the game not for the login-rewards but for the fun the game provides to that point. The rewards are just a nice gift.
If you don't enjoy the game, logging in just to get some weapons won't make the game more enjoyable?

So if DE intends to change the login-rewards, what will actually change? I think i asked this in another thread, but what are people who have 800 days of logging in getting out of it? They get all the items and, as i have learned, bragging rights. The bragging rights fly straight over the head of 95% of the playerbase who don't check the equipment  (in this case, mainly weapons, though the syandana might be noticable aswell)  of their teammates unless you actually take the time to use the chat to point your awesomeness out (never happened to me in ~900h of playtime). In the end, as i see it, if you logged in 800 days, you have all the rewards possible for 800 days of logging in. That's awesome! Cudos to you.
If you are a person like me, who has ~160 days of logging in, you have rewards for 160 days of logging in. If I could've chosen to get something different at the 100 days point, i probably would've, but that doesn't mean that i did not want the azima at all, just that i simply want a different reward more. In the end, what it boils down to, is that the 800 days login is the newest one to get and therefore more desirable? So if DE would announce the rewards for up to 2000 logins and you could choose, would it give some equality to the change if they ever realize it?

[MagPrime]

10 minutes ago, KokoroWish said:

All they are going to do is give newer players the option to choose which of those 50 day segments to pursue. That's even more fair, imo.

It's certainly more enticing imo.

I know that as a new player I'd be more interested in logging in simply because I had a goal to work toward for something I want.

[Xarian]

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

It's certainly more enticing imo.

I know that as a new player I'd be more interested in logging in simply because I had a goal to work toward for something I want.

It's a step in the right direction, but still doesn't address the fundamental problem that many people are behind and will literally never be able to catch up. This, in turn, means that there are login rewards that many players will never be able to get - obtaining the newest login reward is literally impossible for anyone who has missed at least 50 login days.

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

2 minutes ago, Xarian said:

Sorry, but this is circular reasoning. You're saying that DE's login reward system is okay because that's how they made the login reward system.

What I'm trying to say here is that, DE set these requirements and even the scrubby players that don't even really care about Warframe are willing to do this. I'm also saying that if they didn't cheat, then they've done what DE "said to do." We'd need an entire new thread to truly discuss the value of this login reward system.

We're going in circles here. On the one hand, some players feel that those that bothered to do the whole log-in thing don't deserve the rewards because they feel no real effort was put in to obtain them. On the other hand, some of us that bothered to do the whole log-in thing feel that DE set this simple requirement not only for reasons that were mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but to reward those of us that felt their game was worth a daily visit for x-amount of days. We can't see what all the fuss is about, we bit our lower lips and logged in every day.

I will concede this one point many others have made:

Players that were playing before the system got implemented should have been compensated.

This discussion reminds me of how I used to argue with my papa whenever he would say "You have to learn to crawl before you walk. You have to learn to walk before you run." I still give him hell when he says this to me to this day, but in my heart I know that he is right.

It's bad practice to just hand everything over to the new player, why play at all? Rewards are like beacons we follow; they are motivation to overcome challenges or to meet whatever standards, whether it be easy log-in or insane headshot count, we face. So many of my magical Warframe moments would have been ruined if I never had to go through some of the tough times I did; having all the fancy stuff I have now would have completely ruined the game for me. I feel rewarded in that sense.

When I heard about the Zenistar and how it would take 300 days to get it, I became determined to get it; I don't even use it now but that's besides the point. It never occurred to me that I should complain to the developers of Warframe about 300 days being a long time. So I honestly cannot relate with the people that are complaining about it. Maybe I'm just old school: You want something, find out how to get it, no matter how hard it is, commit to it, do it and you will get it. Also, never look a gift horse in the mouth!

[MagPrime]

37 minutes ago, Xarian said:

It's a step in the right direction, but still doesn't address the fundamental problem that many people are behind and will literally never be able to catch up. This, in turn, means that there are login rewards that many players will never be able to get - obtaining the newest login reward is literally impossible for anyone who has missed at least 50 login days.

In all honesty, this login reward system is a Founder's pack level fiasco.  They shouldn't have put anything of value in the rewards in the first place, and they shouldn't have made it like this.

 

[Xarian]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

We can't see what all the fuss is about, we bit our lower lips and logged in every day.

The point is that you shouldn't have to log in unless you are planning to play and enjoy the game. If you want one of the login rewards (especially one of the later ones), the knowledge of your lost login days reduces your enjoyment of the game. And past a certain point, once you don't enjoy the game, you'd rather stop playing completely instead of worry about the login rewards. Note that it may seem like a small thing to you - "who cares about the Azima? It's bad anyway" - but the perception can still cause you to enjoy the game less. You know all those people who are satisfied that they kept up with login rewards? How dissatisfied do you think players are when they realize that they missed some (or many) login days? Keep in mind that peoples' dissatisfaction over small problems is way higher than peoples' satisfaction over small benefits.

Also, you shouldn't stop trying to improve the system simply because other people before you suffered through it. "I suffered, therefore you should suffer too" just results in everyone suffering. Needless to say, this is bad. People who already "suffered" can also be given additional non-exclusive rewards to say "thanks for going through this", as I mentioned before.

 

20 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

It's bad practice to just hand everything over to the new player, why play at all?

I agree that the rewards should not simply be given freely. They should require some sort of gameplay benchmark (like Mastery Rank) combined with some sort of catch-up system so that it's obtainable but only for players who actually want to play Warframe. But there does need to be a way to catch up. If they put in a token-based catch up system, then they could keep the current reward structure so people don't just skip past the Azima or whatever (which is mediocre) straight to the Primed Shred (which is a lot better than the Azima).

 

19 minutes ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

You want something, find out how to get it, no matter how hard it is, commit to it, do it and you will get it.

By this logic, if you buckle down and work really hard, you should be able to obtain the login rewards, right? Well, it turns out that the "latest" login rewards are always impossible to get. If you missed 300 login days, then the last 300 login days worth of rewards are permanently unobtainable.

And, even if DE implements a "choose your own reward" system, then someone who misses 300 days of logins will always be down 6x rewards (or 3x or whatever they make it). There's no hard work involved, there. It's simply impossible to catch up, which is rather at odds with the philosophy of working really hard to obtain a goal.

Some things in life simply are impossible - you can't hang out with Isaac Asimov any more, for example, because he isn't around any more. You simply have to accept that and move on. This is a video game, however, and there's no need for these rewards to be impossible to obtain. DE is getting a lot of new players because of PoE and soon because of PoV, so it makes sense to allow them to see a system that says "hey, we saw you were concerned about that, but it's okay! you can catch up if you work at it."

[Xarian]

2 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

In all honesty, this login reward system is a Founder's pack level fiasco.  They shouldn't have put anything of value in the rewards in the first place, and they shouldn't have made it like this.

It's been my experience that exclusive rewards (like the Founders pack) drive short-term revenue but are ultimately bad for the long-term health of the game. Time gated exclusive rewards (login rewards) don't drive revenue at all, but are supposed to drive player retention by convincing players to stick around and play more - but really, they don't have that effect at all.

What really drives player retention are special events and expansions like PoE. I always logged in to play special events, and I always got sucked into playing more Warframe when I did. This time around, I got sucked in by the latest change to Eidolons.

Time limited exclusive rewards like Excalibur Prime, and time gated rewards like Shred Prime, ultimately only serve to incite bad feelings among the community. In short, this is because very few people feel good about having the exclusive rewards, but many people feel bad because they don't. Inevitably, these rewards divide the community because, as we've seen, there's generally two camps that can be roughly summarized as "I want the stuff"/"I want you to have the stuff" and "You shouldn't have the stuff". The cooler the rewards are, the worse it gets, and it can get really bad if the rewards are truly special. Notice how it wasn't such a big deal when it was just Azima, but then we got Zenistar and Primed Shred and people started realizing that the login weapons and items really are unique and special.

But the thing is, this sort of player division creates a toxic community as a whole due to the escalating infighting. We've already seen this with people saying things like "suck it up" and casually throwing around insults or insinuating that new players are whiny babies simply because they want to be able to obtain the login rewards without waiting 3 years. Is it okay to be a huge A****** to someone simply because they don't want to wait until 2021 to use a specific gun? No, it's not. But this is where we are, simply because of "exclusivity".

It's been my experience that games with exclusive rewards work best when the exclusive rewards are cosmetics that are extremely gaudy and ugly, especially minor variations of cosmetics that are already in the game. For example: the Christmas version of the syandanas and weapon skins. People will use them sometimes to show off their founder/etc status, but usually just as a joke. Those people get to feel good about their exclusive items, but only diehard players feel bad when they don't have them - because most people won't be jealous of a ridiculously ugly syandana. And when new players see them, they get to recognize a veteran wearing an ugly sweater without simply feeling jealous because of the good gun/mod/whatever.

And even these rewards work best when they come back. Many games use seasonal exclusives in order to drive player retention and sales - Valentine's day skins, for example, that are unobtainable... until next Valentine's day. Throw in Halloween, Christmas, etc and you have a recipe for success. DE does holidays slightly different, giving us temporary cosmetics like mustaches and bunny ears. All of this is good fun. We also get non-holiday events that show up and give us a fun mission and good items. We all keep hoping that these events come back, but they usually don't except as integrated mechanics (like Index and Ambulas).

[Arniox]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Yup - a whopping 4 weapons: NONE of which are required to currently reach MR25, and even when MR26 is reachable, so all you have to do is wait for about 1 update that brings a few new weapons - OH THE HORROR.

And 3 mods - NONE of which are even remotely required.

I've been playing for about three years  - spring of 2015.   I'm almost 300 days behind in logins because I missed a pile of days.  Oh well. The system is fair, transparent, and not in anyway game changing.  

And lastly, its a game. get over it.

Agreement :P

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

14 hours ago, Xarian said:

It's a step in the right direction, but still doesn't address the fundamental problem that many people are behind and will literally never be able to catch up. This, in turn, means that there are login rewards that many players will never be able to get - obtaining the newest login reward is literally impossible for anyone who has missed at least 50 login days.

I think you're misunderstanding how to use "literally".   It is not "literally" impossible for the newer players to catch up.  If they want Day 800, they're only 800 days away.  Period.  Not "impossibly far away", though it might feel that way.

People keep saying "If they could pick their reward, they'd have something to work towards".

We can already DO that.  I like reward at 500 days....guess I'm gonna log in every day that I -CAN- for 500 days! :D   See?  Goal > Work > Achievement.

Now personally, I don't care if they change it or not, because I don't play the game for the rewards.  If I log in and something nice is popping up on my screen, COOL.  If not, that's fine too because all I REALLY wanted was to play this awesome free game - which I CAN.  So...everything else is just icing on the sweet, sweet cake that is Warframe.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

14 hours ago, Xarian said:

The point is that you shouldn't have to log in unless you are planning to play and enjoy the game. If you want one of the login rewards (especially one of the later ones), the knowledge of your lost login days reduces your enjoyment of the game. And past a certain point, once you don't enjoy the game, you'd rather stop playing completely instead of worry about the login rewards. Note that it may seem like a small thing to you - "who cares about the Azima? It's bad anyway" - but the perception can still cause you to enjoy the game less. You know all those people who are satisfied that they kept up with login rewards? How dissatisfied do you think players are when they realize that they missed some (or many) login days? Keep in mind that peoples' dissatisfaction over small problems is way higher than peoples' satisfaction over small benefits.

\

This is straight up bollocks.  Don't speak for me.  I'm not gonna enjoy the game LESS because of some "perception of lost days".  That's complete BS.  I've never felt that way, I know many others who never felt that way, and I'm never GOING to feel that way, because I DO just play the game to enjoy the game.   If losing interest in this game is a result of you not getting to login enough....you weren't that enthralled with it to begin with. 

Also, they didn't "miss" login days. That's the thing about the current system. You CAN'T "MISS" any of them.  If you log in today, your login day is yesterday +1.  If you don't login for a WEEK, your next login day is your previous login day +1.  That is constant. You never miss them.  They don't go away or cease to exist.

The only reason you perceive it as "falling behind" is because you're turning the login system into a race/competition that it simply isn't. At all.  You're creating your own problem.

Mind you, I don't even have the Zenistar yet, and I really, honestly just don't care. I'm still enjoying the hell out of Warframe, and I'm not about to quit because I missed a bunch of time (which I DID - easily over 200 days behind).  

Edited February 27, 2018 by (PS4)Taishin_Ishu

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

14 hours ago, Xarian said:

By this logic, if you buckle down and work really hard, you should be able to obtain the login rewards, right? Well, it turns out that the "latest" login rewards are always impossible to get. If you missed 300 login days, then the last 300 login days worth of rewards are permanently unobtainable.

And, even if DE implements a "choose your own reward" system, then someone who misses 300 days of logins will always be down 6x rewards (or 3x or whatever they make it). There's no hard work involved, there. It's simply impossible to catch up, which is rather at odds with the philosophy of working really hard to obtain a goal.

Some things in life simply are impossible - you can't hang out with Isaac Asimov any more, for example, because he isn't around any more. You simply have to accept that and move on. This is a video game, however, and there's no need for these rewards to be impossible to obtain. DE is getting a lot of new players because of PoE and soon because of PoV, so it makes sense to allow them to see a system that says "hey, we saw you were concerned about that, but it's okay! you can catch up if you work at it."

NO REWARDS ARE PERMANENTLY UNOBTAINABLE.  This is dumb.