Respectfully, I think "Damage percent" mods need their own slot.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

You have created a mod system where every player is obliged to use a specific mod on every build. As in, "You can either use this mod, or you can never progress in the game". That mod has several names. "Pressure Point, Point Blank, serration", etc. And their primed variants of course. This means that no matter how you would like to build your weapon, you have to effectively "waste" one of your slots on just making it able to cut butter or shoot through paper.

The easiest, by far, solution is to just add a dedicated slot to each weapon for it's damamge bonus... That or just add more mod slots, it's clear from the mod screen the way they're laid out that you left room to add them later if you needed...

A more complicated, and interesting, solution would be to just can the bonus damage, and instead convert the mod to bonus trait... Like at the top of the screen for say, I don't know, pick a melee weapon. You have your stance slot in the middle, and two slots empty on the sides, the one you insert pressure point into either increases critical damage and chance on left, or status chance and duration on right. There's enough "mandatory" mods at this point that just figuring out a build that works, especially if you haven't acquired every single mod out there yet, can be a nightmare..And some needed mods the only way to get is to just keep playing until you are given them for daily login.

I strongly feel that moving the damage % mods completely out of the main tree is an effective, and maybe necessary change. I'm not sure that using damage mods to gate off progression was ever a good idea, but I am sure that making players waste a slot on just being able to have a hit register damage is definitely a bad one. 

I grant that I have not been playing the game long enough to have my opinion matter much, but I have been dedicated since I started... There are far too many mods that rather then being pursuant to a complex build, are in fact mandatory just to survive.

Edited February 24, 2018 by (PS4)Echo_X

[TylerFreeman]

particularly, this would be a kinda risky move if they were to approach this idea.

Although, there is one side of me that really would like this considering I'd like to implement speed mods on some weapons considering the current dominant  builds revolve around huge dmg and rivens.

At best, having a lucky roll on rivens is a small...Remedy for letting me retain elemental dmg considering the only thing to offer about strengthening your weapon is BIG DAMAGE or nothing else matters.

[GinKenshin]

There was old talk that dmg mods are to be removed and make their bonus innate within the wep, every time you gain a lvl you get more dmg 

 

  From what I understand from the recent devstream, the new dmg system is DElayed indefinitely, so this change might take a lot of time to happen, or any change for that matter 

 

  If only they’d share with us what sorta trouble they’re having.....unless they’re not even thinking about it right now which is more than likely 

[peterc3]

Just do this one thing and everything gets solved... if you ignore the aftermath.

This is the obvious choice, one that DE considered for a half-second then realized it doesn't solve anything, just punts the issue down the road.

What would go into that slot? If your answer was anything but more damage, you'd show yourself to not have looked that hard at the problem and the proposed solution. Now you've also removed the side effect of needing lots of credits and Endo to level the damage mod up. Everyone from R1 to 24 instantly has a damage boost before you even slap another 90 or dual stat 60 into the freed slot.

Then what about locking this freed slot to "QoL" mods. That is, nothing that touched reload, damage, crit, status, or fire rate. These include Hush and it's brethren, Zoom modifiers, Recoil reducers, etc. Respectfully, rethink this.

[(PSN)EmilyRoze]

Would rather have a dedicated riven mod slot, that way atleast every riven can be used because its doesn't take something away from a build, ofc if its not all negetives. 

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

many of us veterans have been saying this for years, but i dont think another slot is the answer

just remove the existing core base dmg mods, THEN make all weapons gain +5% base dmg per rank, ie +150% base dmg at rank 30, THEN refund the required creds/endo that ppl spent on those mods [the plat used in trades stays how it is, since ppl are still getting credited for what they possess atm] 

this functions to free up a slot on all weapons, so we then dont need to go about adding more slots, but in the long run this is THE proper solution

the sad thing is that DE already knows this, but they are too scared/gun-shy becuz they think that too many ppl will QQ about their 'investment' into serration/HS/PP/etc, but that's nonsense imho ; as long as ppl are reimbursed in a fair & equitable manner ; and even if a small group of ppl QQ about it, they would forget about it in a few weeks/months and they would get used to the new normal and move on with their lives [especially since the ingame ranking of weapons would be a LOT more user friendly ESPECIALLY for newer players] ; and even moreso DE should not let a vocal minority of ppl ruin their game by QQ about design decisions that are best for the long-term health of the game

like someone else said, if we are going to add any kind of additional slot for weapons, it should be a riven-only slot, and im still on the fence about that, but imho the removal/integration of the core base dmg mods is much more important in the long run {the problem with adding a riven slot factors also into how the order of elemental dmg gets combined into dmg types, that might be a huge hassle}

Edited March 3, 2018 by CY13ERPUNK

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, CY13ERPUNK said:

+1 OP

many of us veterans have been saying this for years, but i dont think another slot is the answer

just remove the existing core base dmg mods, THEN make all weapons gain +5% base dmg per rank, ie +150% base dmg at rank 30, THEN refund the required creds/endo that ppl spent on those mods [the plat used in trades stays how it is, since ppl are still getting credited for what they possess atm] 

this functions to free up a slot on all weapons, so we then dont need to go about adding more slots, but in the long run this is THE proper solution

the sad thing is that DE already knows this, but they are too scared/gun-shy becuz they think that too many ppl will QQ about their 'investment' into serration/HS/PP/etc, but that's nonsense imho ; as long as ppl are reimbursed in a fair & equitable manner ; and even if a small group of ppl QQ about it, they would forget about it in a few weeks/months and they would get used to the new normal and move on with their lives [especially since the ingame ranking of weapons would be a LOT more user friendly ESPECIALLY for newer players] ; and even moreso DE should not let a vocal minority of ppl ruin their game by QQ about design decisions that are best for the long-term health of the game

like someone else said, if we are going to add any kind of additional slot for weapons, it should be a riven-only slot, and im still on the fence about that, but imho the removal/integration of the core base dmg mods is much more important in the long run {the problem with adding a riven slot factors also into how the order of elemental dmg gets combined into dmg types, that might be a huge hassle}

You should have played the game long enough to realize that formaing the weapon with what you suggest would make levelling the weapon solo a lot harder. Simply because you can't boost damage by a huge amount from the start.

[Kalvorax]

2 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

You should have played the game long enough to realize that formaing the weapon with what you suggest would make levelling the weapon solo a lot harder. Simply because you can't boost damage by a huge amount from the start.

what do you think we delt with for years before they changed it so we HAD mod slots  upon using a forma?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

what do you think we delt with for years before they changed it so we HAD mod slots  upon using a forma?

It was a very welcome QoL.

This is the main reason why people are against it, in fact. Formaing my Soma Prime years ago (I am not a "vet" but I do remember the tiled Starchart and when Soma P was top tier rifle) was so incredibly frustrating I wouldn't want to do it again if this kind of thing happened (doubly frustrating as I use Soma Prime very little now)

Actually I'd still do it because it is necessary, but it would be a sad day when your formaed weapons have to gain damage from scratch again.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Guest

[Recel]

This is a thing that can't be easily solved.

The issue is that due to enemy scaling, we need damage, and even if enemy scaling wouldn't be an issue, people would want as much damage as possible anyway. If you give them an extra slot by removing the base damage mod, they still wouldn't use an utility mod. They would cram in one more mod that increases the weapons damage even further. Because the best CC is killing your opponent, the best "stealth" is killing anything before they can set off an alarm or even react, and the best ammo efficiency is killing as many enemies with a single shot as possible.

So in the end, freeing up a mod slot would still leave utility mods in the dust, as people would just slap on one more elemental mod or one more critical boosting mod, more fire rate, or anything that allows them to do more damage. Leaving utility mods in the dust once more, and pushing our damage into even more ridiculous levels.

 

The only way people would use a utility mod is if it would work like an exilus slot, forcing you to place a utility mod in it. Or if the entire combat would be shifted in a way that would make ammo, accuracy and stealth a real concern during battle. With the later being a very unlikely scenario.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Well the simple fact is that a lot of the development decisions are to keep people playing the game. A... Fact that Destiny 2 is learning the hard way. Making all weapons the same. Making all weapons do a base line damage. And not making you work to unlock the full damage potential, is what killed that game dead................. Also the fact that warframe is a better game, as is the Division now... Or so I hear. Also the fact that they don't force you to buy loot boxes.. ANYWAY...

To get primed reach, primed pressure point, primed pointblank, primed flow, primed... What ever. To get all of this leveled requires a significant amount of endo, credits, and time. There's a reason people sell fully leveled primed mods for the equivalent of 20 to 40 dollars worth of real world money, and you'd pay more than that in the store for the endo to level. Keeping people grinding for the resources they need to level their mods or build their weapons is how they keep people playing their game... 

The main thing is.. Elemental mods add damage. Augments of critical damage add damage. Multishot mods add damage. All of these. Are things that add damage by DOING something to the gun, blade, whip, whatever. My issue with mods like serration and whatnot... Is that those mods are required, absolutely required, unavoidably required, for your weapon to work at all. It's not part of your Grineer build. Not part of your Corpus build, not part of your Infested build... It's a mandatory part of any build you make, because if that mod isn't taking up a slot, your weapon might as well be shooting nerf darts.

You can choose to leave fury and reach off your weapon. Odds are you'll regret it in many cases but more damage against less targets at a slower attack speed is a trade off that you can choose to make. There's a viable argument for and against. But pressure point, if it's not equipped, you might as well leave your weapon on the ship.

My position is, it simply isn't okay to tell players they /must/ use this mod or they might as well not play the game. People make a big deal about maim strike having practically become a required mod... Well. This mod type literally is required. I don't know what to tell you is the best solution. But one way or another, something needs to be done....

A valid solution, though a very difficult one, is to rebalance mechanics... For instance, right now corrosive or gas or magnetic or what not help you with certain enemies but they are not required, they largely are just adding damage.... By making certain elements significantly more influential or almost necessary for certain enemies... Sorta like pokemon, a game that is pervasive enough I know the concept of even having not played it, you're going to have to tune your weapons for the engagement.... Then you can adjust damage percent mods to effect the weapons core damage, not it's secondary damage, so because say, Pressure Point would no longer enhance your elemental mods, there's a legitimate argument to say "Well then why am I using this mod if my focus is more towards elements?" Another option is to abandon damage percent and attack rate mods entirely and have a sliding scale, pushing all the way towards attack speed reduces your damage, pushing towards damage reduces your attack speed. On weapons that you have put your whole focus on elements, you're going to want a high attack speed to get that elemental damage flowing as hot and heavy as possible, while if you're building for critical damage, you'll want that base damage as high as posisble, because even if you hit slow, you'll hit hard, and a mod that raises your damage percentage 50% is a way bigger deal when your base damage is 1000 than it is when it's 100. Maybe follow that up by binding status chance to attack speed and critical chance to attack damage... 

I'm not asking them to do anything ive said here, because I'm at work and I'm too busy to put a great deal of focus into something that's largely going to be ignored... I just feel that making you burn a slot on something that is REQUIRED to play the game is maybe not the best way to work mechanics.

[Tuoweit]

Baking the extra damage into the weapons is functionally equivalent to simply leaving them in while adding a 9th mod slot and an extra 7 points for everyone to make even more OP builds with - so there'd need to be some serious rebalancing of the other mods for that to work.  Not that it isn't possible, but it's a lot more complex than simply slapping some extra damage onto the base weapons, removing the raw damage mods, and calling it a day.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

1 hour ago, Tuoweit said:

Baking the extra damage into the weapons is functionally equivalent to simply leaving them in while adding a 9th mod slot and an extra 7 points for everyone to make even more OP builds with - so there'd need to be some serious rebalancing of the other mods for that to work.  Not that it isn't possible, but it's a lot more complex than simply slapping some extra damage onto the base weapons, removing the raw damage mods, and calling it a day.

I would argue that with this game, there is meaningfully no such thing as overpowered.... Overpowered is when there is one weapon that is so good that nobody uses anything else... There is a build for every weapon in this game to make it not just good but great. I just started using the nunchaku with their stance... Fresh out the door, with no mods on it except for primed reach and primed pp, I wandered into a mission solo, was like "oh garbage..." when an enemy syndicate said "you going to be cleansed beesh" and dumped a heard of chargers on me.... So fine... Here goes... I start whacking them with my nunchaku... No drifting contact or anything... 10 seconds and I'm at 3.5 from my combo modifier and I'm like "WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING THIS IS RIDICULOUS OH MY GODS THESE ARE THE BEST THINGS EVER!" as electricity burns my enemies to the ground...  Every weapon in this game is awesome. Which means there is no such thing as overpowered. You are going to use the weapon that is the most fun for you.....

Which is why even though I love these things I will probably default back to my murder yoyo or sparring gloves because I just have more fun with them...

[Trentiel]

Every time a conversation about mandatory mods comes up, I am compelled to make this point.

There's 3 ways this could go.

1. Status Quo, leave everything as it is.
2. Remove the mandatory mod and make it a standard feature.
3. Give that mandatory mod some healthy competition.

This last option isn't one I see brought up much. The problem with Mandatory mods is that they are always heavy-weight options. They cannot compete with other mods, because other mods aren't in their weight class. So one solution is to create direct competitors to mods like Serration.

I fully support the idea of giving a dedicated base-damage mod slot to weapons. By giving these heavy weight mods their own slot, you can artificially enforce that players can use only one. Similar to Auras. But it wouldn't work without providing alternatives to Serration / Hornet Strike / Pressure Point.

• Heavy Calibur: 330% base damage -55% accuracy (I could actually see many corrupted mods being direct serration competitors with a bit of tweaking)
• +130% base damage +15% flat crit chance (or other small flat-stat modifications that allow you to tinker with a weapons core stats)
• 150% base damage +gives the weapon a special alt-fire (not compatable with weapons with an existing alt-fire)
• Thunderbolt: 200% base damage but the arrows explode on impact doing self-damage, -alarming noise level. (but fix the scaling issue on the explosion)

Things like this, maybe these numbers are a bit wonky. Mods that give you a choice. So instead of choosing between 165% base damage and... well nothing competes with base damage mods. You'd be picking between many heavy weight options.

Melee might be a bit of a trick, since they already have a dedicated mod slot for stances. So adding another might not work. Maybe stance mods could get a base damage modifier?

 I think it's a novel enough idea, but I don't see it brought up often. It's not that everything is too OP already. Over powered is the name of the game, the problem is that these mandatory damage mods feel like we're having a mod slot stolen. You see 8 slots, but you know, you don't get 8 slots. You get 7. It would be nice for the game's system to not only directly encourage you to slot in a base-damage mod, but recognize that it's not really giving you a choice in not using one. Instead you'd be presented with an ever-evolving question of "what flavor of base damage would you like on this particular weapon?"

 

[CY13ERPUNK]

On 3/3/2018 at 1:49 PM, Datam4ss said:

You should have played the game long enough to realize that formaing the weapon with what you suggest would make levelling the weapon solo a lot harder. Simply because you can't boost damage by a huge amount from the start.

a single solo spy run can boost an unranked primary into the mid teens, which would equate to an immediate in-mission boost of +75%-ish base dmg ; i understand that there are always going to be tradeoffs, but imho it is a much worse scenario that we are currently in where a 'mod slot' basically has-to-be a REQUIRED core base dmg mod, and this mod is not immediately available to all new players, thus leading to false choices and noob traps {ie bad game design} 

[Leqesai]

On 3/3/2018 at 11:49 AM, Datam4ss said:

You should have played the game long enough to realize that formaing the weapon with what you suggest would make levelling the weapon solo a lot harder. Simply because you can't boost damage by a huge amount from the start.

It really doesn't make it that much harder. Especially since a portion of the damage boost would always be in effect. This frees up a mod slot and quite a bit o' capacity which can be used on other damage mods.

 

Straight up, the removal of damage boosting mods and a level by level increase of damage is the solution. Mandatory mods need removed from the game. 

 

Hell, I'd even go so far as to say multishot be a level by level thing too, affecting each weapon differently. 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 3/3/2018 at 12:55 PM, Datam4ss said:

It was a very welcome QoL.

This is the main reason why people are against it, in fact. Formaing my Soma Prime years ago (I am not a "vet" but I do remember the tiled Starchart and when Soma P was top tier rifle) was so incredibly frustrating I wouldn't want to do it again if this kind of thing happened (doubly frustrating as I use Soma Prime very little now)

Actually I'd still do it because it is necessary, but it would be a sad day when your formaed weapons have to gain damage from scratch again.

I disagree

Looking at weapons that have 0 starting Polarities (Soma would not be included in this case)

Spectra or Supra these weapons would require a new player to get the weapon to level 14, be MR14+, or be MR7+ and use an Orokin Catalyst; just to slot a Max Serration or Hornet Strike which is almost ½ the weapon leveling before slotting this "mandatory" damage mod.

If the damage was included while ranking up someone could have Slotted 2 Dual-status mods or Barrel Diffusion/Vigilante Armaments/Split Chamber instead. 

Comparing a current weapon with only Serration or Hornet Strike versus a proposed 'Baked into leveling damage increase' allowing other mods to be slotted would have a stronger weapon with the Serration/Hornet Strike damage built-in at level 14-15 but with the Elemental or Multi-shot mods making the weapons stronger.

 

DE already implemented weapon damage scaling based on weapon level with Melee Finisher Multipliers.

• Finisher damage will now increase based on weapon rank and enemy level. Finisher Damage for stealth kills capped at 8x damage with max rank melee weapon!

 

Wiki keeps getting changed back to:

Stealth Attack Damage = Weapon Damage × Stealth Multiplier × Weapon Multiplier

• 3.0x Weapon Multiplier for Daggers, Dual Daggers, Polearms, and Staves.
• 6.0x Weapon Multiplier for Hammers.
• 4.0x Weapon Multiplier for all other weapon types

 

Currently it is easy to test Finisher damage Multiplier scaling with Melee weapon rank because you can buy a Fresh Skana/Mk-1 Furax/Mk-1 Bo and compare to unranked to a level 30 to verify that the wiki Melee Stealth Finishers Multipliers are incorrect.

Because to finisher multipliers we're normalized between weapon classes: there really should not be a need for Aresenal UI Entry. (Could just simply be a Codex Entry for players to reference, just like how the Unalerted/Stealth Melee bonus is currently 800%)

*Excerpt from quoted post, linked below

In all fairness the best way for DE to implement the damage as being baked-in and removing players Primed Damage mods is to make the baked-in damage a buff.

Example at Rank 30 weapons will have the equivalent of 300% base damage increase.

This would make it far superior than if a player had Primed Pressure Point, Serration, Hornet Strike, Primed Point Blank, Cutting Edge, or Rubedo Lined Barrel.

Then even at half ranked a weapon (150% base damage buff) with no mods would almost be as strong or stronger than a current weapon with a staple "mandatory" base damage mod.

[Guest]

If the so called damage bonus scaled with weapon base capacity, then fine, I have no issues with it. I.e. at MR 14 you get a level 14 weapons's base damage from the start, and it scales up only when the weapon hits 15.

Starting from scratch brings back too many bad memories.

Also, what would you do about Damage Rivens and Damage corrupted mods? What about Augur Pact?

[BBaw]

The only problem I see with this is I'd have to redo all my builds!  I'll start adding Blood Rush to all the places I couldn't have it before,  Primed Reach to all the places I couldn't have it before, Argon Scope to all the places I couldn't have it before,  Maiming Strike!!.... eehh i hate it i'll just sell the ones I got.   Condition Overload to all the places I couldn't have it before.  And I would just add a riven mod to all my existing builds that didn't have one.

This is actually a very condensed list of things I would actually be doing but you could pretty much call me Mr OP after that.  As if I had trouble with that before...

I've also seen a suggestion in the past to blanketly add those Pressure Point, Point Blank, Hornet Strikes, and Serrations into the weapon stats and get rid of those mods since they're already necessary and just give us the stats already!!   And my new to the game fresh nub self from way back thought about it and said, THATS A GREAT IDEA! cuz instead of having to scale up my damage as I went through the lower sections of the startchart when I couldn't afford the endo to max out a serration or anything else for that matter,  I could just have it all right then and one shot my way through everything, cuz thats literally how OP it is at that level of play.

I don't think this is exactly a broken issue at the moment,  I mean riven mods capable of taking the place of 3-4 other mods in your setup all in one slot is slightly OP but at least they have a disposition system that sorta iffy kinda supposed to work to balance it out?  

On 2/23/2018 at 11:06 PM, (PS4)Echo_X said:

I strongly feel that moving the damage % mods completely out of the main tree is an effective, and maybe necessary change. I'm not sure that using damage mods to gate off progression was ever a good idea, but I am sure that making players waste a slot on just being able to have a hit register damage is definitely a bad one. 

Those slots aren't wasted either, it actually takes  a starting player a very long time to max out a serration or pressure point and its a very effective way of scaling up through the starchart.  As they get more resources they are able to scale their damage into the new contents,  its not even gated with how OP most weapons are in the start chart content.

If I wasn't able to take my weapons and literally one shot nearly anything up to sortie level and beyond I'd say necessity was a big deal.   I never really got the impression that my damage mods where gating my progression though.  In all honestly I can say with surety that it was just me not being aware of how to efficiently use my warframe and weapons and not realizing how powerful they where.  That was my biggest hangup while leveling up the star chart.  I just didn't know how strong I was.  If only I knew that fast melee wasn't the same as scaling a combo counter...I would have won the game long before  I ever did.  Now I'm pretty confident I could take all the mods off my MR 2 Atterax and still finish a sortie.  

Lolz I'm actually gonna go do that now, I'ma go take all the mods off one of my favorite melee weapons and go solo an endless survival and see how far I can scale it.  I'll probly be using saryn though so its gonna be half cheating....but still! So fun! Great idea! Patting myself on the back now, haHA!

[(PSN)MrNishi]

2 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

If the so called damage bonus scaled with weapon base capacity, then fine, I have no issues with it. I.e. at MR 14 you get a level 14 weapons's base damage from the start, and it scales up only when the weapon hits 15.

Starting from scratch brings back too many bad memories.

Also, what would you do about Damage Rivens and Damage corrupted mods? What about Augur Pact?

Yeah something similar might need to be adopted also for Exalted weapons to scale base damage of just received a larger base damage boost.

(Since they would not have the Base damage mods to scale from)

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Yeah something similar might need to be adopted also for Exalted weapons to scale base damage of just received a larger base damage boost.

(Since they would not have the Base damage mods to scale from)

TBH, it is possible for weapons to simply scale 7.5% more base damage per level (for 225% at max, about same as Hornet Strike)

However, this base damage is added like a mod. Basically, it takes the place of Serration and stacks additionally with things like Heavy Caliber and Augur Pact.

[BBaw]

4 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

TBH, it is possible for weapons to simply scale 7.5% more base damage per level (for 225% at max, about same as Hornet Strike)

However, this base damage is added like a mod. Basically, it takes the place of Serration and stacks additionally with things like Heavy Caliber and Augur Pact.

Absolutely possible, very bad idea.  Imagine what it would do to all the low level content in game. You start your character go through the first few basic missions and in no time you've got a level 30 weapon.   You now have a maxed Serration, Primed Pressure Point, Hornet Strike or Primed Point Blank. (primed versions there for continuity but reducing the cost for arguments sake)   That is more than a bit broken.  A normal Serration mod takes 20,460 endo and 988,218 credits to max out.  Exactly how long do you think it takes for someone starting out to acquire that?  You've basically given someone a damage bonus that takes half the star chart to gather enough endo and credits to achieve.  Instead of leveling it up gradually and allowing it to scale their damage as they progress side by side with the content in game as they gather credits and endo and rank up other mods and try to manage their resources for different weapons and gear.   You now just potentially gave them over 80,000 endo and roughly 4 million credits for free,  if we went with the actual cost for primed mods we gave them twice that much,  and scaled their weapons base damage to max in content that they shouldn't even be close to using them in, yet.

That isn't just a little bit broken its very broken.  I understand its possible to get those things and have them maxed early on in the game but that's because you either know somebody or you payed a lot of real world money for them.  That isn't the typical new player experience. Giving every weapon a 165% to 200% base damage increase for that particular content is a pretty big deal. If you asked me back then, would I like it, sure I would have loved to one shot a lot more things instead of dumping clips into them or go hacking and slashing away like jack the ripper.   At this point in the game though I realize that would have been a very bad idea.

DE made it this way for a reason,  I understand there have been changes over the years, but for right now it scales very well with the content and doesn't give the new players something completely overpowered from the get go.  I also don't like the idea that we might have this AND an additional mod slot available as a result of it.  Our weapons scale massively above any normal content in game at the moment,  how could anyone believe this is necessary.

Just for funs and a little challenge and for curiosity's sake,  I took all mods off one of my melee weapons except for a Life Strike and a Stance mod.  I then carried that into Eris, Zabala a level 35-45 infested zone, and hung out there for 25 minutes just demolishing the place.  I just face tanked it all, no hiding behind walls or using any subversive tactics, basically played like a big ol nub.  I literally destroyed the place and if I didn't have to get up when I did I could have stayed there even longer.  That was without any damage mods equipped at all and using only whatever meager damage my stance would have provided in that case.  I definitely had to beat on some things a lot but I never felt like I was in any danger from not having a capable weapon, it was more than capable.   So, someone would have a hard time convincing me we either need an extra mod slot or base damage just given to us.  This part of the game isn't broken on the low end.  If anything I would say we either need an outlet for all the massive amounts of damage we can produce or we need it curbed a bit.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BBaw said:

Absolutely possible, very bad idea.  Imagine what it would do to all the low level content in game. You start your character go through the first few basic missions and in no time you've got a level 30 weapon.   You now have a maxed Serration, Primed Pressure Point, Hornet Strike or Primed Point Blank. (primed versions there for continuity but reducing the cost for arguments sake)   That is more than a bit broken.  A normal Serration mod takes 20,460 endo and 988,218 credits to max out.  Exactly how long do you think it takes for someone starting out to acquire that?  You've basically given someone a damage bonus that takes half the star chart to gather enough endo and credits to achieve.  Instead of leveling it up gradually and allowing it to scale their damage as they progress side by side with the content in game as they gather credits and endo and rank up other mods and try to manage their resources for different weapons and gear.   You now just potentially gave them over 80,000 endo and roughly 4 million credits for free,  if we went with the actual cost for primed mods we gave them twice that much,  and scaled their weapons base damage to max in content that they shouldn't even be close to using them in, yet.

That isn't just a little bit broken its very broken.  I understand its possible to get those things and have them maxed early on in the game but that's because you either know somebody or you payed a lot of real world money for them.  That isn't the typical new player experience. Giving every weapon a 165% to 200% base damage increase for that particular content is a pretty big deal. If you asked me back then, would I like it, sure I would have loved to one shot a lot more things instead of dumping clips into them or go hacking and slashing away like jack the ripper.   At this point in the game though I realize that would have been a very bad idea.

It didn't take me half the Starchart to max out a Serration, TBH. 

The whole point is removing "mandatory mods" simply because they would be on the weapon anyway. If you read my earlier replies, you would know that I personally don't support not having my Serration, but that is not due to the investment or the "new player experience".

However, if they are going to remove my mandatory mod, at least give me something workable in return.

[peterc3]

7 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

In all fairness the best way for DE to implement the damage as being baked-in and removing players Primed Damage mods is to make the baked-in damage a buff.

Example at Rank 30 weapons will have the equivalent of 300% base damage increase.

This is Bad. On top of this, you'd have an empty slot and a dozen+ extra capacity. This is naked power creep of the worst kind.

[BBaw]

7 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

It didn't take me half the Starchart to max out a Serration, TBH. 

The whole point is removing "mandatory mods" simply because they would be on the weapon anyway. If you read my earlier replies, you would know that I personally don't support not having my Serration, but that is not due to the investment or the "new player experience".

However, if they are going to remove my mandatory mod, at least give me something workable in return.

But those "mandatory mods" are what enables the weapon to be progressed and scaled with early game content as the player acquires resources to rank them.  Do you remember when you where able to make your first 1 million credits? I do,  I had barely spent any credits on anything when I started.  I knew I had very few resources and I was progressed fairly far in the star chart before I ever made my first million.   That is the cost of maxing only ONE of those mods, not all.  It would be very imbalancing to give not only that damage but those resources required for it to that player immediately.   On top of that they MUST remove a mod slot that Serration or Pressure Point etc had taken up because there are literally 0 equitable arguments right now for an additional damage slot on weapons.  Our weapons right now are extremely overpowered for our available content.

The only mod slot that I could see anyone potentially making a case for would be an additional utility slot, and that argument is leaning mostly just towards warframes.  Adding damage to weapons for the sake of it because someone doesn't like the fact that you have to put them on their anyway is a very poorly thought out argument at the moment, it has many implications in the game that aren't being addressed and until those things get addressed  my answer to this would be a solid, "No."   I'm sure DE would agree. 

If someone can come up with a way of removing those mods that...

A) addresses low end scaling in the game

B) addresses the lost resource cost

C) does not make the high end of the game even more overpowered and out of balance

D) address the mod slots in a fair and balanced way

Then, I might entertain the thought but so far this argument is without substance.

Some of my most completely overpowered builds on weapons are 1 mod slot short of being so broken they would have to change the base values of the weapons.   This would fix that!!  That isn't healthy for the game I don't want it.

Just for fun and as a test, last night, I took an unmodded weapon into a level 45 endless survival and soloed my way to 25 minutes with literally no problem dispatching the enemies and keeping my environmental counter at nearly 100% the entire time....unmodded weapon.  So, yes I would entertain removing Serration, Hornet Strike, (Primed) Point Blank, (Primed) Pressure Point AND THEIR DAMAGE from the game entirely as I'm fairly certain we could get by without them.   That would be the only argument that makes sense to me. Then we could keep our mods slots, yaaay!  Rivens would be the new Serration... BOOOOoooOOOOOoooooooo......Rivens would lose their purpose... BOOoooooOOOOOooooooo.  Yea nobody is thinking about what this actually would do :<