Slide Attack/Maiming Strike/Whip and Polearm range -- an absurd mixture of overpoweredness

[jan_Pike]

"we need to nerf maiming strike"

then it gets nerfed

player moves onto new mod, condition overload

"we need to nerf condition overload"

then it gets nerfed

player moves onto new mod set, a few of the gladiator mods with bloodrush
"we need to nerf the gladiator buff"

its a slow and painful downward spiral

[DxAdder]

16 hours ago, Vindicus8235 said:

Can we please talk about the elephant in the room here?  Frames like Ember get World on Fire nerfed because it basically ruins the game for anyone else trying to play.  That was partially true but only worked up to around level 40 mobs.  Now slide attack on the other hand, ruins games up to at least 150 and beyond.  Sorties are a mind numbing bore-fest with a slide attack spammer as there's really nothing left to do since it's a super fast moving screen wide red crit aoe fest.  Please address this egregiously overpowered combo of things for the health of the game.  At the very least cap melee range to a few meters, since you know, it's melee; increase whip and polearm damage to compensate if necessary.  Thanks for your consideration.

Why do continue to post this stuff?

Reality Check : At a certain point EVERY Weapon Primary/Secondary/Melee is over-powered along with Warframes.

A well geared player will crush any mission there on.

 

 

[visiblenoise]

The only nerf I'd be down with is if after many consecutive spins, the warframe has to stop and do a puking animation for two or three seconds

[Maercurial]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Thundervision:

Oh, and the special «just go Solo» kind.

Well, let me make it simple: if such players, capable of killing all the stuff they see and in fact aiming for it, come to Public mode or low level regions acknowledging how sensitive the matter of this topic is as well as realizing the others won't have a chance to enjoy the game the way they want (who are you trying to convince you're an innocent player which definitely will stop murdering stuff seeing that the others found themselves a small tile to have fun in w/o you?), then they are the ones who belong to Solo mode. Oh. But they won't, will they? Because it's boring and there's no that many enemies to kill!

«Yep, surprise!»

Well, let me tell you a secret -- this is exactly how the others feel when you come to public missions where others just want to have 'casual' fun and you can't control your selfish instincts (ironically, that's the main reason of many changes and nerfs, because as long as it doesn't became wide-known, the attention to such things is pretty damn minimal). The hypocrisy is strong with some people. 

So people are selfish for playing the game just like they want to play it.... sure... that's the deal when joining a pub, everyone will play the way they want, it's perfectly reasonable to point out that if you don't want to play that way, you either join a premade group of likeminded people, try another pub or go solo. That's the way it's always been and always will be.

The only hypocrisy here comes from people like you who want to change the game so other players can no longer play the game the way they want, just because they didn't play it according to your idea of how the game should be played. And you come here and dare to call others hypocrites... well played 

Zitat

On the other hand, childish «hurr... durr. We'll find another meta» behavior is always fascinating. Please, do. You probably think this will piss the developers off, but in reality you're the ones who help to bring a balance to the games

That's not childish at all, it's a matter of fact that there's always going to be another meta as people will use something else that is just as strong. That's the whole point, there are many other things just as strong, so Maiming Strike isn't some outerworldy powerful exceptional thing that needs to be fixed, it's well within other abilities and combinations in terms of destructive power, which just shows that people crying about it usually have no damn clue about the many other options there are to achieve the same thing. Ultimately, clearing rooms of level 30-40 really isn't anything special in Warframe, it's almost expected for any decent combination of Frame and weapons to be able to do that. 

[Hyohakusha]

Here's some crap I posted a while ago.

punish the abuse of macros. Using MS to get Berserker going before comboing into a crowd with a slow weapon like Dex Dakra or Volnus is one thing; using a macro that somehow makes you move faster than slide rolling and maintains momentum is ridiculous. The true "problem" compounding this is the Scoliac's disposition, allowing it to end up with a range larger than most rooms. Granted, this is the exception, but also the root cause. If you use MS to get speed or get out of a bad spot, people aren't even going to know you have it. If someone's got MS on a Scoliac with a riven and a macro though, people aren't going to enjoy being Ember'ed. Instead of nerfing one part of the problem (and rivens still exist, so that's not happening) cut the disposition of Scoliac rivens in half and extend afk penalties to people who hold their macro for the entire level.

Basically
- Maiming by itself used by a human = not really noticeable
- Maiming + Scoliac (or Atterax, though its overrated :P ) + Riven + Macro = what causes these threads

Also, the same few things come to mind as always.
- people think they're kills are being "stolen"
- people don't want to farm acolytes
- people dont want to grind/ buy plat for maiming
- people are new and have no clue what they're seeing, attribute it to one weapon/ mod, like atterax or maiming, realize they'll have to work for it and get pissed off when they realize there's much more to it than just one thing

I play almost every day and I rarely see anyone with the maiming macro anymore. Maybe two a week. And for those of you who are new and weren't here for Telos Boltace, you have no idea what you're talking about. If you think people are flying through the level on manual keyboard inputs, you have no idea what you're talking about.

New players get in a game with MR20+ players, see everything die around them and want that power for themselves. Funny thing is, they realize there will be actual work and grinding involved, and you end up with threads like this, where they're actually asking for things they wanted to be nerfed, due to not having any experience with progression in this game.

Here's a tip from someone who's been playing forever. This is why when you ask "What's the best X weapon or frame?" in region chat you will always get the same answer. There is not one single weapon or mod in this game that can carry you by itself. 

•  2

[disco_inferno6]

I'm sick of threads like this when people that ask for a nerf, haven't even taken the time to learn the basics.

"I don't own it, no-one must have it" mentality without even knowing how the damage system works...

I simply put the OP on ignore ingame.

I have no time for this.

 

ps/. It's no accident that 95% of the people in this thread are against the OP.

Edited March 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[aswitz87]

So today a few newbies got upset with me.  Don't blame them but I was testing a point.

Used an unranked lato.  Got every single kill in the match except one.

 

Might as well Nerf everything.

To the three newbies on an exterminate alert, I'm sorry.

[disco_inferno6]

5 minutes ago, aswitz87 said:

So today a few newbies got upset with me.  Don't blame them but I was testing a point.

Used an unranked lato.  Got every single kill in the match except one.

 

Might as well Nerf everything.

To the three newbies on an exterminate alert, I'm sorry.

I know.

Done that several times using mk1 weapons. XD
 

Even outclassed relatively new players in sorties with them just to see for myself.

Edited March 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[aswitz87]

Just now, disco_inferno6 said:

I know.

I've done that several times using mk1 weapons. XD
 

Even outclassed new players in sorties with them.

It's such an odd horrible feeling, especially because every now and then someone who outclasses me by a mile will do the same (intentionally or not).

[disco_inferno6]

1 minute ago, aswitz87 said:

It's such an odd horrible feeling, especially because every now and then someone who outclasses me by a mile will do the same (intentionally or not).

Tbh, I enjoy it when it happens to me.

I observe to see what recipe the other player has used.

[Buzkyl]

• Why is OP taking away people's fun.
• If you don't like it, leave when it's used.
• It's PvE why should we try to balance
• Aren't there other things DE should focus on?

 

All these are excuses. Repeated ad nauseam every-time the subject of nerfs are brought up, regardless of reason no matter how reasonable/unreasonable,logical/fallacious the argument may be. People always say the same story. Ignoring the problem does not make it go away.

Slide attacks aren't inherently bad, nor is a mod like maiming strike/bloodrush  or whip weapons like the atterax but in certain combination they create broken mechanics. The calculation of BR w/Maiming strike already allows any weapon to become crit viable, combine with with extended reach weapons and mods like beserker and macros and you have a recipe for spamming 10M AoE crit blenders. And that is not inline with DE's intention of player fun. Just because a player finds a mechanic 'fun' that doesn't mean it's good nor healthy for the game.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Buzkyl

[sleepychewbacca]

1 hour ago, Buzkyl said:

• Why is OP taking away people's fun.
• If you don't like it, leave when it's used.
• It's PvE why should we try to balance
• Aren't there other things DE should focus on?

 

All these are excuse. Repeated ad nauseam every-time the subject of nerfs are brought up, regardless of reason no matter how reasonable/unreasonable,logical/fallacious the argument may be. People always say the same story. Ignoring the problem does not make it go away.

Slide attacks aren't inherently bad, nor is a mod like maiming strike/bloodrush  or whip weapons like the atterax but in certain combination they create broken mechanics. The calculation of BR w/Maiming strike already allows any weapon to become crit viable, combine with with extended reach weapons and mods like beserker and macros and you have a recipe for spamming 10M AoE crit blenders. And that is not inline with DE's intention of player fun. Just because a player finds a mechanic 'fun' that doesn't mean it's good nor healthy for the game.

The problem is people making these issues a problem when there are much more bigger issues that can be looked at. 

This is just simply a  "I DONT LIKE IT, AND EVERYONE SHOULD AGREE WITH ME REEEEE" post. It's been beaten to death again and again, yet it still comes up. Its passed being constructive. 

[Buzkyl]

5 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

The problem is people making these issues a problem when there are much more bigger issues that can be looked at. 

This is just simply a  "I DONT LIKE IT, AND EVERYONE SHOULD AGREE WITH ME REEEEE" post. It's been beaten to death again and again, yet it still comes up. Its passed being constructive. 

See what i mean? DE is not one person and can focus n multiple things at once.. OP's point does not talk about the issue itself from a numerical point but address how the problem expreses itself in some players, with disdain.

It's a deadhorse that keeps coming back possibliy because an actual underlying problem exist.

[sleepychewbacca]

Just now, Buzkyl said:

See what i mean? DE is not one person and can focus n multiple things at once.. OP's point does not talk about the issue itself from a numerical point but address how the problem expreses itself in some players, with disdain.

It's a deadhorse that keeps coming back possibliy because an actual underlying problem exist.

Hmm. I think we're inclined to disagree. I feel it's a self made problem, motivated out of a desire to have large numbers on the end of mission screen, or frustration from not having it. 

Problems in game would be things like bugs with the Eidolons, host migrations causing reward losses ect. MS is fair in it's crazy amount of damage simply because of how difficult it is to obtain, unless you buy it with plat. No reward without loss kinda thing. 

Even then, it's useful at low level content, and tapers off for status builds at higher levels. And it gets boring after the novelty wears off. The problems with people crying out for nerfs is simply that it's knee jerk. Rather than ruin the experience for those who like using a MS combo, just reform another squad, or block the slide user. That's 5 seconds of time lost. That vs a loss of farming efficiency. At a certain point, you'd want to do a mission for something as fast as possible. I would propose a change to matchmaking instead, even if it's a MR limit for pub missions. 

Instead, we have cries to completely change the mechanics. But that's my opinion. You're free to disagree, and I'll respect your opinion. 

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

outside of myself >.> I've never seen anyone using a whip. I mostly leave mine on because I was focus farming with it. I've never heard anyone complain about these weapons outside of this post either. Saryn and other frames can kill mobs before those weapons could ever get a shot at them.

[Reifnir]

10 hours ago, Thundervision said:

Oh, and the special «just go Solo» kind.

Well, let me make it simple: if such players, capable of killing all the stuff they see and in fact aiming for it, come to Public mode or low level regions acknowledging how sensitive the matter of this topic is as well as realizing the others won't have a chance to enjoy the game the way they want (who are you trying to convince you're an innocent player which definitely will stop murdering stuff seeing that the others found themselves a small tile to have fun in w/o you?), then they are the ones who belong to Solo mode. Oh. But they won't, will they? Because it's boring and there's no that many enemies to kill!

Actually, no.

The only reason I will show up in a low-level mission in my minmaxed gear is when it's a fissure I need, or if it drops the type of relic I need. Yes, I will then proceed to slaughter everything in sight. No, I won't give a Hek about the feelings of others who may show up there. Because (and this part is important) I don't really have an alternative. Primes are spread across all relic eras, and there is no way of getting them all to drop without doing those missions. Unless running a dedicated radshare, additional players provide additional chances at either the loot you want, or at least some decent Prime junk. 

Add a hard mode to Fissures (HM Lith, featuring level 100+ enemies, maybe a Nightmare modifier and increased chance of better Relic loot) and I won't set foot into a normal one ever again. Add a Hard Mode node to farm Lith relics at a rate of 2 relics per reward rotation with same added difficulty - and that will solve the problem altogether. 

No alternatives? Then sorry, I'll keep doing things efficiently, Meme Strike or not. 

[VortexInfinity]

The mods rarity and price justifies its power. 

[F8ted]

Since the op is new and none of you took the opportunity to let him know, this game is about the slowest I've seen on anything from balance passes to new content. We have been waiting since The War Within for the devs to simply remove damage mods and integrate them into the base weapon itself. Like they said they would years ago. Instead of releasing the new quest they talked about nearly a year ago, or the new warframe they promised before Christmas, we got a balance pass on a number of warframes. The likes that League of Legends releases about every 2 weeks. This balance pass was the largest this game has ever seen, and it's unlikely we will ever see a patch bring this many balance changes again. Still haven't released anything they promised to happen 10 weeks ago. They added re skinned eidolons and took away raids. The amount of content in the game actually went down.

How can it be so hard to build base damage mods into guns?

How can it be so hard to fix the difference between impact, puncture, and slash?

How can it be so hard to release something that you already have in game footage of completed?

It's not. You want maiming strike removed from the game? I can say with all the confidence of DE's own words that it will happen Soon™.

[MarcNemesis]

To be honest, i haven't ready every post. But here goes non the less.

First of all, i'm a Chroma + Atterax + MS + Corrosive build user. I do it manually without any effort what so ever. Sure my little finger hurted the first 2 days but now it's totally fine. My policy is "Kill before being killed". Thanks to that, i can safely solo lv 150+ even after the nerf. I probably could do it without it but it would be more tedious.

Now as for people complaining about it being unfair or OP, i honestly don't understand you. I rarely see other people using a whip or Orthos Prime with a MS build or riven for that matter (Scoliac Riven + MS out there will know what i mean and let it be known that i'm jealous of you for it 😂.)

Sure you don't get as many kills but if you stick arround that meat grinder, you'll still get all the loot, a affinity bonus XP and completition of the map (for tbe most part unless something goes horribly wrong.) If your not happy about those meat grinder, no one is forcing you to stick arround. There's plenty of people arround for you to play with that don't use those type of build. In the end, even if DE were to nerf MS,  people would simply swap to Scoliac + range Riven. So all you'll have won is a arguement on 1 mod. Your game situation will stay the same.

Now let's say it is nerf'ed. What will be the next thing you'll set your eyes on? Will you be willing to nerf that one thing YOU enjoy the most? I highly doubt it. So live and let live. The star chart is large enough for everyone and everything.

[Abenoki]

On 3/12/2018 at 7:47 PM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

It gets nerfed, something else will take its place, more threads complaining about a mechanic will be brought up on the forums.

Again, it’s an endless chain of complaining about getting something nerfed when something else can easily take its place. 

Again, you’re beating a dead horse. You might as well eat it at this point to conserve energy.

Gotta love the ad nauseum defense...am I right?

This is in fact logically false as an argument against discussion. While I have no real problem with the issue being discussed here and haven't encountered it personally, I do with poor and lazy counter points.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

30 minutes ago, Echoa said:

Gotta love the ad nauseum defense...am I right?

This is in fact logically false as an argument against discussion. While I have no real problem with the issue being discussed here and haven't encountered it personally, I do with poor and lazy counter points.

aliquid planum facere, argumentum ad infinitum. animo prompto esse ad iocandum accommodate ad persuadendum dicere. aggredi ad dicendum dirigere aliquid ad aliquem rem. mores in dies magis labuntur.

Hooray for butchered Latin. An ad nauseum defense for an ad nauseum topic. Let’s beat down another dead horse, right?

Edited March 14, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Blade_Wolf_16]

Il y a 2 heures, Reifnir a dit :

The only reason I will show up in a low-level mission in my minmaxed gear is when it's a fissure I need, or if it drops the type of relic I need. Yes, I will then proceed to slaughter everything in sight. No, I won't give a Hek about the feelings of others who may show up there.

So, why do you go public then if only the Mission Reward interest you? How is going solo limiting you in your selfish relic/prime hunting? Serious question. I want to know why somebody who doesn't care about others like that would have the right to say to those people to play solo if they disagree with your "gameplay"?

il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 a dit :

Let’s beat down another dead horse, right?

You're the one beating the damn horse with all this "beat down the dead horse" crap. Could you at least try to find an argument instead of just repeting the same expession over and over again? 

Il y a 2 heures, sleepychewbacca a dit :

MS is fair in it's crazy amount of damage simply because of how difficult it is to obtain, unless you buy it with plat. No reward without loss kinda thing. 

The rarity of something doesn't make it less broken nor acceptable to be broken. The rarity of Primed Chamber wouldn't mean make it fair if it allowed to one shot anything or room-cleaning with a spamable 20m+ AoE able to one shot level 150+, even if it's the rarest mod in the game. 

Il y a 3 heures, sleepychewbacca a dit :

Il y a 3 heures, sleepychewbacca a dit :

The problem is people making these issues a problem when there are much more bigger issues that can be looked at. 

This is just simply a  "I DONT LIKE IT, AND EVERYONE SHOULD AGREE WITH ME REEEEE" post. It's been beaten to death again and again, yet it still comes up. Its passed being constructive. 

I feel it's a self made problem, motivated out of a desire to have large numbers on the end of mission screen, or frustration from not having it. 

That's not an argument, that's just yet another attempt to discredit other people's point of view, just like pretty much +90% of everything that was posted to defend this Spin-2-win spam. Dramatizing and discrediting others is the real example of what you described as "passed being constructive". 

[rune_me]

Don't worry, DE is already on it:

 

[Abenoki]

1 hour ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

You're the one beating the damn horse with all this "beat down the dead horse" crap. Could you at least try to find an argument instead of just repeting the same expession over and over again? 

he doesnt have one, hence he repeats that because he falsely believes that something loses relevance the more its discussed and simply doesnt want to do so and cant find a good point to counter the OP argument.  

[Midrib]

4 minutes ago, Echoa said:

he doesnt have one, hence he repeats that because he falsely believes that something loses relevance the more its discussed and simply doesnt want to do so and cant find a good point to counter the OP argument.  

Almost all of the posts so far have been like that,

Its either attack the OP because you can't argue against his point, so you call him a whining new player.

Or you generalize all people who dislike Maiming as Moaners who just can't get kills.

Or my favorite, The slippery slope, "If maiming gets nerfed DE is going to go after our Equinox & Octavia or maybe even go after our Lenz & Zarr."

and ofcourse the "We will never achieve perfect balance so why bother" argument.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯