Kuva Survival Should Drop 50 Kuva per Siphon...

[DrBorris]

... and increase by 50 with consecutive siphons.

So first siphon would give 50, second would give 100, third would give 150 etcetera. This would give the reward for extended survival runs so many of us have been asking for.

 

"But I don't like sitting in a mission for an hour, it's boring"

Well, that is what every other Kuva Siphon mission is for. It would be the best of both worlds, those that like fast objective based missions have traditional Kuva Siphons and those that like endurance have Kuva Survival (although it would be nice to see all Kuva Siphon survival missions get this mechanic so we could enjoy other tile-sets). This would also help with matchmaking as if you queue up for Kuva Survival you know the other people you are getting matchmade with probably are in for the long haul because it is not rewarding to leave before 20 min.

 

Just my two cents.

[xXDeadsinxX]

50 is way too low, should start at 250 kuva or something close to that amount. I would be able to get more kuva more quickly doing Kuva Siphon missions than doing the kuva survival all together.

[PETI258]

If the life support is traded for the siphon collector it makes the survival much more harder to complet without Nekros.

I would say it should give the same amount in 20 mins as can be collected on kuva missions but staying longer will add bonuses like on relic endless missions.

[Urabask]

3 minutes ago, PETI258 said:

If the life support is traded for the siphon collector it makes the survival much more harder to complet without Nekros.

I would say it should give the same amount in 20 mins as can be collected on kuva missions but staying longer will add bonuses like on relic endless missions.

IMO having to trade life support is bad design anyways.  The first time a group misses the timer and loses 6k+ kuva you'll see rage posts all over the forum.  DE looks at it as a way to make it more challenging while everyone else will see it as a reason to cuss at their teammates for screwing up.

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

I would like to see rewards that ramp up as well. It would give an actual reason to stay longer is missions.

[DrBorris]

11 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

50 is way too low, should start at 250 kuva or something close to that amount. I would be able to get more kuva more quickly doing Kuva Siphon missions than doing the kuva survival all together.

I think you misunderstood, it stacks 50 Kuva for every siphon you do. So sure, the first is 50, but then the second gives 100. This means you have 150 total so far in the mission. Then the third and fourth would give 150 and 200 each, leaving you with 500 total for the mission.

Then, the longer you stay, the more quickly you will gain reward. For example your 12 siphon alone will give 600 Kuva, the normal output for a Kuva Siphon. And it will only go up from there.

 

11 minutes ago, PETI258 said:

If the life support is traded for the siphon collector it makes the survival much more harder to complet without Nekros.

I would say it should give the same amount in 20 mins as can be collected on kuva missions but staying longer will add bonuses like on relic endless missions.

I would estimate that 20 min with the drops as proposed in the OP would be a bit less than just running 4-5 Kuva Siphons. However, the longer you stay the more you are rewarded for your time so staying 40 min would give much more reward than 40 min of various traditional siphons.

 

5 minutes ago, Urabask said:

IMO having to trade life support is bad design anyways.  The first time a group misses the timer and loses 6k+ kuva you'll see rage posts all over the forum.  DE looks at it as a way to make it more challenging while everyone else will see it as a reason to cuss at their teammates for screwing up.

But... you don't instant fail when you run out of LS, you just have to leave the mission. If I run out of LS an hour into a survival I still keep all of my rewards as long as someone makes it to extraction.

[xXDeadsinxX]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

I think you misunderstood, it stacks 50 Kuva for every siphon you do. So sure, the first is 50, but then the second gives 100. This means you have 150 total so far in the mission. Then the third and fourth would give 150 and 200 each, leaving you with 500 total for the mission.

Then, the longer you stay, the more quickly you will gain reward. For example your 12 siphon alone will give 600 Kuva, the normal output for a Kuva Siphon. And it will only go up from there.

I understood what you meant, which is why I said 250 kuva should be the starter amount instead of 50 that you’ve suggested. 50 kuva  would be way too low for the starting amount. As I said in my other post, with it starting with 50 kuva, it’s way too low since I can do a Kuva Siphon mission and get a lot more kuva in that mission without doing the new kuva survival. 

[Ham_Grenabe]

It doesn't seem starting at 50 kuva would ramp fast enough to compete with a plain Kuva Siphon. Since life support capsules drop about every two and a half minutes, it would take somewhere around, 12 minutes to get above 650 Kuva if you used every life support capsule as a filter.

Possible, but it pretty much dictates having a Nekros in the squad. Starting it higher (as already mentioned) makes it competitive.

A 20-minute run using every capsule would net something like 1750 Kuva, or about 3 siphons. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Ham_Grenabe

[DrBorris]

57 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

I understood what you meant, which is why I said 250 kuva should be the starter amount instead of 50 that you’ve suggested. 50 kuva  would be way too low for the starting amount. As I said in my other post, with it starting with 50 kuva, it’s way too low since I can do a Kuva Siphon mission and get a lot more kuva in that mission without doing the new kuva survival. 

But if it was 250 start than it would be better to run Kuva Survival for 10 min than to run Siphon missions. Kuva Survival is not supposed to be power creep, it is supposed to be an alternative for those who like endless missions. If Kuva Survival instantly becomes the best way to farm Kuva for everyone than it is a failure IMO. Having it start so low "filters" out the people that only want to stay for 10 min.

[xXDeadsinxX]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

But if it was 250 start than it would be better to run Kuva Survival for 10 min than to run Siphon missions. Kuva Survival is not supposed to be power creep, it is supposed to be an alternative for those who like endless missions. If Kuva Survival instantly becomes the best way to farm Kuva for everyone than it is a failure IMO. Having it start so low "filters" out the people that only want to stay for 10 min.

Just completely get rid of Kuva Siphon missions then, they are going to serve no purpose either way with the kuva survival.

[Urabask]

4 hours ago, DrBorris said:

But... you don't instant fail when you run out of LS, you just have to leave the mission. If I run out of LS an hour into a survival I still keep all of my rewards as long as someone makes it to extraction.

If you run out of life support one hour into a survival mission it's really likely that you won't get even one of your teammates to extract with you.  I've already run into this in normal survival.  This game mode is going to be terrible without premade groups if they leave it as is.

[Gravitus123]

That is way too low of a starting point you are risking mission failure because of the way survival works.The first like 5-10 minutes of the survival are usually the most difficult because of the way enemies spawn and since youre reliant on enemy spawns for lifesupport the reward needs to outweigh the risk of losing the mission.

A better starting point would be something like 300-400 kuva that then grows for 100 every 5 minutes up to a cap of like 1000 or 1500.The kuva survival needs to be worth doing because regular kuva siphons are fairly quick missions and you can do a lot of them in a short time so giving players a good incentive to stay longer to farm more then usual has to be done or no one will bother with it.

[peterc3]

7 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Just completely get rid of Kuva Siphon missions then, they are going to serve no purpose either way with the kuva survival.

That's a pretty bad argument. X feature is in the game, so things added need to take that into account. You can either get a big pile with the Siphons and Floods or accumulate less at once, but more over time with Kuva Survival.

Floods are in the game, so Siphons should be removed.

[xXDeadsinxX]

4 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

That's a pretty bad argument. X feature is in the game, so things added need to take that into account. You can either get a big pile with the Siphons and Floods or accumulate less at once, but more over time with Kuva Survival.

Floods are in the game, so Siphons should be removed.

Here, look at this way, if the amount of kuva from the survival is high enough, what would be the point of having the Kuva Siphon missions in the game?

[peterc3]

2 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Here, look at this way, if the amount of kuva from the survival is high enough, what would be the point of having the Kuva Siphon missions in the game?

A quick mission to do with a definite end? Why have all the missions in the game when we could all just play Bere with a Tigris P and an Atterax with Maiming Strike. Just have the one mission, the one set of weapons. What's the point of everything else in the game?

[Wicker-G041]

Since a regular kuva mission gives us 600+ most of the time, i think it should be on it's lowest 200 kuva

[Snake]

On 3/19/2018 at 11:36 AM, DrBorris said:

... and increase by 50 with consecutive siphons.

So first siphon would give 50, second would give 100, third would give 150 etcetera. This would give the reward for extended survival runs so many of us have been asking for.

 

"But I don't like sitting in a mission for an hour, it's boring"

Well, that is what every other Kuva Siphon mission is for. It would be the best of both worlds, those that like fast objective based missions have traditional Kuva Siphons and those that like endurance have Kuva Survival (although it would be nice to see all Kuva Siphon survival missions get this mechanic so we could enjoy other tile-sets). This would also help with matchmaking as if you queue up for Kuva Survival you know the other people you are getting matchmade with probably are in for the long haul because it is not rewarding to leave before 20 min.

 

Just my two cents.

I get it - Stacking 50 for each LS. Nice - You have my Vote!

[Katto_Prime]

I like this idea, however I think the kuva needs to be a little bit higher, with a different scaling mechanic. The Kuva should start at 200, but then increase by 100 for every 5 mins in the survival. Give it a cap of about 1500-2000 kuva or so and I think the grind would be worth it :3

[Borg1611]

I think it should start at a meaningful number like 200-400ish and then they can simply copy and paste the bonus system from fissures into kuva survival (and possibly all non-fissure endless missions to make them more interesting). 

The fissure bonus system caps at 2x boosters. For kuva survival they could potentially remove some of the other boosters and/or the relic rounds so that the resource booster stacks a bit faster. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

@DrBorris

Kuva survival should be better than Kuva Siphons.

Siphons are quick-n-dirty chunks of Kuva for 5ish minutes of investment. The enemies are L30 all the way through.

Kuva Survival will have scaling enemies that ramp up the effort required to get returns.

You need to hit that sweet spot where until 10 minutes or so, Siphons are the better deal... But for 20-30 missions you can rake in proportionally more Kuva (on average) than simply running Siphons for half an hour.

Then it comes down more to preference. Can't handle that 30 minute investment? Don't have time? Siphons are for you. Sick of rushing missions repeatedly and need something you can get lost in? Survival is for you.

It will also be good for when the Fortress is in crappier tiles *coughcough* Shipyards/Hive *coughcough*

[DrBorris]

11 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

@DrBorris

Kuva survival should be better than Kuva Siphons.

Siphons are quick-n-dirty chunks of Kuva for 5ish minutes of investment. The enemies are L30 all the way through.

Kuva Survival will have scaling enemies that ramp up the effort required to get returns.

You need to hit that sweet spot where until 10 minutes or so, Siphons are the better deal... But for 20-30 missions you can rake in proportionally more Kuva (on average) than simply running Siphons for half an hour.

Then it comes down more to preference. Can't handle that 30 minute investment? Don't have time? Siphons are for you. Sick of rushing missions repeatedly and need something you can get lost in? Survival is for you.

It will also be good for when the Fortress is in crappier tiles *coughcough* Shipyards/Hive *coughcough*

Ummmmm.... I think this is exactly what I said. Well, with the exception that I think Kuva Survival should be objectively worse sub 15 min as to separate the niches of Siphons and Survival. But, then again, you seem to agree with that as well. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

20 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Ummmmm.... I think this is exactly what I said. Well, with the exception that I think Kuva Survival should be objectively worse sub 15 min as to separate the niches of Siphons and Survival. But, then again, you seem to agree with that as well. 

I was referring to this comment:

On 3/19/2018 at 12:47 PM, DrBorris said:

But if it was 250 start than it would be better to run Kuva Survival for 10 min than to run Siphon missions. Kuva Survival is not supposed to be power creep, it is supposed to be an alternative for those who like endless missions. If Kuva Survival instantly becomes the best way to farm Kuva for everyone than it is a failure IMO. Having it start so low "filters" out the people that only want to stay for 10 min.

For context, starting at 50 and scaling up by 50 will prevent the Survival mode from outpacing normal siphons... Like ever.

Base spawn spacing is 2min 30sec, so where a default siphon nets you 600ish in 5 minutes a Survival nets you... 150. And that time between towers increases as the mission drags on, in ADDITION to the enemies scaling in level.

That's what I meant by you need to hit that sweet spot.

10 minutes should net maybe 8-900 (less than 2 siphons), but 30 minutes or so should net in the order of 4-4.5k (more than 6 siphons).

After that it can cap out the scaling; people have the option of going longer but they shouldn't need extra encouragement at that point. They'll already be operating at above-siphon efficiency so long as they can keep up. I also don't think it would be good to encourage players to stay absurdly long.

[K4RN4]

11 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

After that it can cap out the scaling; people have the option of going longer but they shouldn't need extra encouragement at that point. They'll already be operating at above-siphon efficiency so long as they can keep up. I also don't think it would be good to encourage players to stay absurdly long.

If they cap out the scaling, the spawnrate of lifesupport capsules will still slow down and the kuva gain will therefore be reduced over time. That's why the scaling should be slow but steady and uncapped.

[DiabolusUrsus]

3 hours ago, Oru5732 said:

If they cap out the scaling, the spawnrate of lifesupport capsules will still slow down and the kuva gain will therefore be reduced over time. That's why the scaling should be slow but steady and uncapped.

I disagree, because the enemy scaling is supposed to force players out eventually. If you can stay in mission for 4 hours, good for you. But you don't need extra cookies for doing so, and ut really shouldn't be the most efficient use of your time.