The reason I stopped playing is because DE won't reasonably protect traders.

[Calteru]

If I MUST link all the instances of people getting locked out of their accounts because some jerkwad used bad plat in a trade, I can, but I really don't think I need to.

Anyway: 

I stopped playing Warframe because my endgame playloop is that of a merchant. It has been for over 20 years now. When I cap a character, the most fun thing for me to do is open up a little business selling players in-game items. 

I ain't doing that here because DE won't reasonably protect sellers.

I don't deal with too many games that allow direct trading of the game's premium currency. I think the closest I've come to this in the two decades I've been playing online would be EvE and its PLEX. Though to be honest, we didn't trade in PLEX directly; we just bought it for selling on the market for ISK. Still, EvE wouldn't ban the recipient of bad PLEX wholesale. I've seen people go into negative ISK from RMT, but those people were never banned. They could even work themselves back into the black.

Here? You're banned until you pay more money. What's gonna happen the first time I upset a competitor? Are they gonna fake a buy with an alt using bad plat to get me banned? That's too much to even consider in a video game. I'm here to have fun, not worry about stuff like being locked out by some jerk for something I wouldn't have been at fault for in the first place.

Let me know if that ever changes. Even with the incredibly limited selection of wares I could have offered, selling prime junk would have been fun for a while... if I didn't have to worry about getting banned because of someone else. Until then, I've moved on and am spending my money on a subscription to another game that offers not only seller protection, but my own store that accepts walkups without an invite and a marketboard in case I don't feel like opening up the store.

That's my feedback. Thank you for your time and for the fun I had leveling. I wish I could have had more fun with my endgame, but it's clearly not what DE wants at this time.

[Kracken]

i had read what you have wrote and ... imo its not a feedback but a rant...

If you are in an instance where someone trade "bad" plat - that trade should be reverted regardless - but its should be solved by technical support. Technical support from their side should track that "bad" plat to the source and act accordingly - case by case.

The only instance where a player gets a temporary ban when that "bad" plat is taken back without rolling back the trades/buyouts.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

The best way to make DE realize how big of a mistake their trading policy is to go on a ''bad plat'' trading spree and get dozens upon dozens of players banned that way, just for the heck of it. They talked about the Kavat skin gambling on their documentary but they would have never changed it unless somebody went ahead and abused the absolute crap out of it.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Wyrmius_Prime

[Calteru]

1 minute ago, Kracken said:

i had read what you have wrote and ... imo its not a feedback but a rant...

If you are in an instance where someone trade "bad" plat - that trade should be reverted regardless - but its should be solved by technical support. Technical support from their side should track that "bad" plat to the source and act accordingly - case by case.

The only instance where a player gets a temporary ban when that "bad" plat is taken back without rolling back the trades/buyouts.

Your opinion of my opinion is irrelevant. Here's the other thing I'm talking about, which seems to contradict your assertion on the banning policy: 

 

 

[Calteru]

1 minute ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The best way to make DE realize how big of a mistake their trading policy is to go on a ''bad plat'' trading spree and get dozens upon dozens of players banned that way, just for the heck of it. They talked about the Kavat skin gambling on their documentary but they would have never changed it unless somebody went ahead and abused the absolute crap out of it.

I would hate to see it come to that, but I fear you are correct.

[Kracken]

6 minutes ago, Calteru said:

Your opinion of my opinion is irrelevant. Here's the other thing I'm talking about, which seems to contradict your assertion on the banning policy: 

 

 

its all here

 

[Calteru]

1 minute ago, Kracken said:

its all here

 

Yeah, see, that's the contradictory part. You saw the link, you saw the trade. That person got banned for a negative plat balance and it wasn't their fault - in direct contradiction to the two-year-old link you've shown me. Which would be why I said "this seems to contradict your assertion on the banning policy". 

[Shalath]

3 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The best way to make DE realize how big of a mistake their trading policy is to go on a ''bad plat'' trading spree and get dozens upon dozens of players banned that way, just for the heck of it. 

That's... really not a good idea. Far too many innocents would get caught up.

The better idea is to keep raising the point and suggesting better ways for DE to handle the situation as I think even they would agree banning people who had no idea they were dealing with bad plat just isn't good business.

For me the best solution would be to simply partially reverse the trade so the bad plat is removed and the person receiving the bad plat gets whatever they traded back. That kind of falls over if the person who paid with bad plat has already shifted the item on so maybe grant the seller a new copy of the item(s).

If that is too much work (each case would probably have to be handled by a person rather than automation) then just don't ban people with negative plat if they were the seller for that particular transaction. Most of the time it is the seller who has no idea that something isn't right and if DE don't want to reimburse the seller then at least they can trade plat junk to bring their account back into the positive.

[Mama_Sasha]

I seen alot more people getting banned because of these platinum resellers. One problem i noticed that someone showed, is that once you get banned thanks to this sort of an instance, its done, there is nothing else you can do other than to buy the missing platinum.

I do agree that, if the said person who was banned really did buy play from a reseller, then sure thats justified, but from waht i seen, there doenst seem to be a way to know that the person you trade with, could be a reseller, as teh game doesnt even tell, and the Autoban system doenst seem to react fast enough to catch the culprit that manipulated the platinum value.

Whatever the case may be, resellers to honest players, i cant be certain myself and it has made me nervous to even go on trade chat to sell stuff.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Sasha_The_Lynx

[RugerMK1]

DE's draconian policy towards platinum resellers and negative plat holders isn't surprising, it directly affects their control and monetary interest in their product.  Anyone who trades a large amount of platinum around should be concerned that they may be the victims of a fraudulent transaction that could put their account in peril.  DE is not probably ever going to play nice with this issue and will instead leap for the throat with anyone they think is gaming the system.

[Calteru]

12 minutes ago, RugerMK1 said:

DE's draconian policy towards platinum resellers and negative plat holders isn't surprising, it directly affects their control and monetary interest in their product.  Anyone who trades a large amount of platinum around should be concerned that they may be the victims of a fraudulent transaction that could put their account in peril.  DE is not probably ever going to play nice with this issue and will instead leap for the throat with anyone they think is gaming the system.

And that's their choice, and I won't tell them how to run their business. I'll simply tell them why someone else has mine now.

[---RV---Maniac]

They could allow you to play with negative plat and any plat you get from trades or from buying plat decreases the negative plat. Your obviously not allowed to buy anything from market/players until you get your plat fixed.

I also heard they allow you to sell stuff you brought ingame (like market skins) to make for it but in some other cases they don't?

I keep seeing more cases of people geting banned, some people go into the support section trying to proof their case but they usually answer your first ticket with the case is now closed and if you send more tickets they just ban you from forums and support aswell. It doesn't seem good policy for me. 

I know some people get spammy and annoying but I seen people geting banned for sending 1 or 2 extra replies in tickets. You have to understand some people that get their accounts locked andransomed into buying more plat, have spend hundreds sometimes thousands of hours on their accounts and are geting banned suddenly unfairly so, this would get annyone upset.

[Tsukinoki]

42 minutes ago, Sasha_The_Lynx said:

Whatever the case may be, resellers to honest players, i cant be certain myself and it has made me nervous to even go on trade chat to sell stuff.

Here's the thing about the bans:
DE removes the fradulent plat from your account.  If this puts you in the negatives (meaning that you used some of said plat) you are on the hook for buying the plat to make up what you used.
Only fair that DE gets paid for the plat that is used.

For instance, say you trade a riven for 13K plat and then go on a spending spree and use 10K before DE gets a chargeback.  You're now on the hook for the -10K plat that is in your account balance.  After all you spent that plat and DE expects to get paid for plat that is spent.
If you bought cosmetics and orbiter decorations, slots (that aren't being used) and stuff you can appeal to support to get those things reverted to get out of the red, at least partially.
They can't refund everything (such as used Forma, trades to other players for their items, boosters, etc) but they can refund a lot of things.  I've seen people get completely out of negative plat by having DE revert all of the frame cosmetics they spent the money on.

There is one simple way to avoid any possible banning though:
If you trade for a massive amount of plat then just sit on it for a short while.  If the plat it taken out of your account?  You won't get banned because you never spent any.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[Tyrian3k]

23 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Here's the thing about the bans:
DE removes the fradulent plat from your account.  If this puts you in the negatives (meaning that you used some of said plat) you are on the hook for buying the plat to make up what you used.
Only fair that DE gets paid for the plat that is used.

For instance, say you trade a riven for 13K plat and then go on a spending spree and use 10K before DE gets a chargeback.  You're now on the hook for the -10K plat that is in your account balance.  After all you spent that plat and DE expects to get paid for plat that is spent.
If you bought cosmetics and orbiter decorations, slots (that aren't being used) and stuff you can appeal to support to get those things reverted to get out of the red, at least partially.
They can't refund everything (such as used Forma, trades to other players for their items, boosters, etc) but they can refund a lot of things.  I've seen people get completely out of negative plat by having DE revert all of the frame cosmetics they spent the money on.

There is one simple way to avoid any possible banning though:
If you trade for a massive amount of plat then just sit on it for a short while.  If the plat it taken out of your account?  You won't get banned because you never spent any.

Quoted from the official post by DE_Adam linked above: "Players have never had Platinum removed or been banned for trading fairly with a regular player that had a chargeback."

 

No regular trade should ever lead to a ban in case of a chargeback according to that line in their policies, so if DE stuck to that, your suggestion should be completely useless.

That does not seem to be what is actually happening, so either all players who were banned are lying on the forums about the circumstances of their ban or DE isn't sticking to their own policies.

[Mama_Sasha]

29 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Here's the thing about the bans:
DE removes the fradulent plat from your account.  If this puts you in the negatives (meaning that you used some of said plat) you are on the hook for buying the plat to make up what you used.
Only fair that DE gets paid for the plat that is used.

For instance, say you trade a riven for 13K plat and then go on a spending spree and use 10K before DE gets a chargeback.  You're now on the hook for the -10K plat that is in your account balance.  After all you spent that plat and DE expects to get paid for plat that is spent.
If you bought cosmetics and orbiter decorations, slots (that aren't being used) and stuff you can appeal to support to get those things reverted to get out of the red, at least partially.
They can't refund everything (such as used Forma, trades to other players for their items, boosters, etc) but they can refund a lot of things.  I've seen people get completely out of negative plat by having DE revert all of the frame cosmetics they spent the money on.

There is one simple way to avoid any possible banning though:
If you trade for a massive amount of plat then just sit on it for a short while.  If the plat it taken out of your account?  You won't get banned because you never spent any.

Amen to that. Still, it makes one nervous and i think its only natural.

I remember when i had negative platinum, but that was for a different reason (Got twice of everything in a prime access ddue to some strange gltich), but we got that one resolved.

But your suggestion sounds pretty good. Simply wait for awhile and see if its safe. That sould be a pretty good groudn rule right there.

[Letter13]

42 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Here's the thing about the bans:
DE removes the fradulent plat from your account.  If this puts you in the negatives (meaning that you used some of said plat) you are on the hook for buying the plat to make up what you used.
Only fair that DE gets paid for the plat that is used.

For instance, say you trade a riven for 13K plat and then go on a spending spree and use 10K before DE gets a chargeback.  You're now on the hook for the -10K plat that is in your account balance.  After all you spent that plat and DE expects to get paid for plat that is spent.
If you bought cosmetics and orbiter decorations, slots (that aren't being used) and stuff you can appeal to support to get those things reverted to get out of the red, at least partially.
They can't refund everything (such as used Forma, trades to other players for their items, boosters, etc) but they can refund a lot of things.  I've seen people get completely out of negative plat by having DE revert all of the frame cosmetics they spent the money on.

There is one simple way to avoid any possible banning though:
If you trade for a massive amount of plat then just sit on it for a short while.  If the plat it taken out of your account?  You won't get banned because you never spent any.

Quoting this to emphasize it.

Like in real life, if you receive a large check, it usually takes several days for it to clear. During this time, although the money may be "available" for you to spend (your bank is essentially lending part or all of the check's value to you), until the transaction clears through both banks you should avoid spending any of it in the event that the check bounces (or is canceled/recalled by the issuer).

If you receive a large sum of platinum, sit on it for a few days and don't spend more platinum than you had before the trade, this way if it was discovered as fraudulent then you won't be sent negative when it's deducted and voila, no ban. Anything you traded for should be restored (the trade which resulted in you receiving platinum should be undone), and if everything hasn't been returned then you should contact support.

 

 

Going to go ahead and lock this. There are a lot of ways that traders can protect themselves and avoid getting banned for participating in trades with users performing chargebacks or RMT'd platinum... A lot of these ways are just like they are in real life: know the person you're trading with (cursory checks on their username, in game play time, etc. to see if they're a throwaway account--throwaway accounts usually mean they're doing something illicit), practice safe spending habits (any large transfers should be given time to 'rest' so all associated platinum/money transactions can clear to prevent chargebacks), and don't buy/sell platinum for real money or non-tradeable goods (i.e. CS-GO skins)