Plague Star more like Plague Tedium... star!

[Gandergear]

Look I get it you can't have people do these really fast because you put forma and stuff as the rewards, doing a 4/0, the most efficient manner of doing plague star, nets 230 standing per minute assuming your crew can keep the mission at 9 minutes, remove the entire 8 minutes from the first few stages and that's just crazzzzy!

But is there seriously no BETTER way for you guys to design an event? Is it justified to have to go 2000m to the toxin, 800m to the mixer, 400m to the drone, and 800m again to the boil, not to mention how long the defense is?

Here's some ideas to make it less awful.

1. Go ahead and spawn us near the cave via our landing craft. It's shown in Saya's Vigil that the LC can be used on the plains. Make us spend more time in the caves instead.

2. Make the thraxx toxin into a cache mission, why does Hek have all his eggs in one basket? have us collect X (1 for each party member) thraxx toxins that are inside the caves in random cache-like locations, have them behave like caches and bing bang you've added maybe a minute of playing in the cave for each run except we're finding things instead of running to the same spot over and over.

3. Make the mixer interesting, nothing is worse than that long, boring, monotonous, mixer section. Have a grineer commander pop in every minute to help rally his troops against you, afterall it's Hek's PLAN to let the boil grow, you'd think he'd be more interested in defending it.

4. Make the drone spawn next to the boil, just do it, there's a grineer camp right there that has an eidolon lure at night.

5. Remove the dumb damage cap from the hemocyte, if you want him to have more hp, GIVE HIM MORE HP, get rid of his ridiculous armor too, there's no reason why 18000+ damage weapons give you 300 damage a hit, or why 1200 damage full autos plinking 30-90. Who at DE decided that enemies should have 99.99% damage reduction instead of just having appropriate HP, why is the design case for shattering impact worse when it should have been a viable option?

6. Fix the toxin clouds, add a UI gas effect to our screens to let us know we're inside this cloud and give us a second to get out, i've been sniped bullet jumping by the BS aim tracking and instant downed. Players try to force the meme about movement reducing damage but it's just not true. CMON DE fix this already.

[LSG501]

While I'm not saying the event isn't boring etc (rewards are worth the farming though) it's always going to take longer for those that have not invested the time into the game to have better gear etc...

Yes travelling is a pain and to be fair that was raised the last time too... funnily enough they only 'bug fixed' things that made it faster.

As to your damage from weapons, pick the right type, it's immune to status and has a damage cap so you want a crit weapon  with fast fire rate...I see higher than 30-90 on my full auto rifle

[Baterial]

i am oding this only for contagion and cetus wisps

[Sormaran]

While i get distance and defence time complaints, dont like it myself, but the boss complaints are tiresome. "oh i cant kill enemy with 100% resist to status with my status based weapon".... Seriously im so tired of ppl with tigris prime there. Get something like synapse and nova, it dies in seconds.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Sormaran

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

37 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

While I'm not saying the event isn't boring etc (rewards are worth the farming though) it's always going to take longer for those that have not invested the time into the game to have better gear etc...

Yes travelling is a pain and to be fair that was raised the last time too... funnily enough they only 'bug fixed' things that made it faster.

As to your damage from weapons, pick the right type, it's immune to status and has a damage cap so you want a crit weapon  with fast fire rate...I see higher than 30-90 on my full auto rifle

shotguns do well to, because the damage cap applies per projectile. 

meaning (and i dont know the exact figures) a damage cap of say, 300 allows a shotgun to deal a maximum of 300 per projectile, whilst the opticor would be stuck doing 300 for the whole shot (barring multi-shot of course)

[LSG501]

7 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

shotguns do well to, because the damage cap applies per projectile. 

meaning (and i dont know the exact figures) a damage cap of say, 300 allows a shotgun to deal a maximum of 300 per projectile, whilst the opticor would be stuck doing 300 for the whole shot (barring multi-shot of course)

They have a shorter range though so while they may do a decent amount of damage (assuming you don't take one which is status orientated such as tigris prime) you also need to be closer to the target to get max damage, rifles with their longer range allows you to be further away from things like the scythe.  Not to mention I've also watched players in public groups jumping up to try and hit the target with their shotguns....

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

36 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

They have a shorter range though so while they may do a decent amount of damage (assuming you don't take one which is status orientated such as tigris prime) you also need to be closer to the target to get max damage, rifles with their longer range allows you to be further away from things like the scythe.  Not to mention I've also watched players in public groups jumping up to try and hit the target with their shotguns....

depends on the shotgun, i suppose. i use my brakk and a damage buffing warframe like rhino or chroma in order to max out the per-pellet damage. usually allows me to take a head out in about a magazine or 3 (against a max phylaxis/catalyst lephantis... i mean hemocyte)

[HisokaXEveryone]

The repetitiveness is bad. The length of the mission that you're repeating is bad. But what's really horrible is when you get a DC at the last part of the mission, and it's the host. You lose the rewards from the only worth-wile part of the mission. And this S#&$'s happened more than once. I've got one of the Zaw's from this, I've got some mastery fodder in the form of a snipetron, and that's about all the patience I have for this dreadfully thought-out and apparently buggy-ass mission, no matter how good the rewards are.

[--END--Rikutatis]

I think the mission itself is pretty fun, I enjoy it. It just gets repetitive after doing it many times, but then you can just go do something else for a while before coming back to it. And the rewards are awesome, specially the infested zaws and exodias, so it's worth it. 

I do agree the damage cap on the Hemocyte is a little annoying though, but the boss fight itself is actually pretty fun. And I'm glad they nerfed the ember thing, that was kinda silly tbh. 

[BlackCoMerc]

13 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

shotguns do well to, because the damage cap applies per projectile. 

meaning (and i dont know the exact figures) a damage cap of say, 300 allows a shotgun to deal a maximum of 300 per projectile, whilst the opticor would be stuck doing 300 for the whole shot (barring multi-shot of course)

Damage caps are an insult to the player base. Invalidates all the time and effort we put into our gear. It's like DE are actively trolling their players.

At this point, DE is the DM in a tabletop game who just keeps.changing the rules every time players do something they don't like. They can't be bothered to adjust their approach, vary enemy types.or don anything at all creative or even logical. Instead, it's just "No, we don't WANT to you to have this, so we are taking it away."

It's a ridiculous, insulting approach to running an online game. Bordering on sadistic, even. DE are like some twisted teacher on a playground trying to see how many of the kids toys they can intentionally break before the kids quit playing early and go back inside to their homework.

At this point, they don't WANT the vast majority to enjoy the game. They want people looking for enjoyable game play to stick to the main.game while BUYING the event stuff to skip the sheer Tedium.

This.is free to play gone terribly, horribly wrong.

Edited April 9, 2018 by BlackCoMerc

[Ham_Grenabe]

I'm in it for the plague zaw strikes and the arcanes; anything else is gravy. I enjoyed it enough for the first few runs (really, you only need a few to get everything actually valuable from Operational Supply). What I'm not getting is why people who were around for Plague Star the first time around are doing it twice. 

[Gandergear]

2 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I'm in it for the plague zaw strikes and the arcanes; anything else is gravy. I enjoyed it enough for the first few runs (really, you only need a few to get everything actually valuable from Operational Supply). What I'm not getting is why people who were around for Plague Star the first time around are doing it twice. 

Formas, gems, etc

I dont do catalyst runs because theyre too slow and tedious, 4 phyl 0 cat nets more standing per minute but relegates me to only playing premades.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

17 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Damage caps are an insult to the player base. Invalidates all the time and effort we put into our gear. It's like DE are actively trolling their players.

At this point, DE is the DM in a tabletop game who just keeps.changing the rules every time players do something they don't like. They can't be bothered to adjust their approach, vary enemy types.or don anything at all creative or even logical. Instead, it's just "No, we don't WANT to you to have this, so we are taking it away."

It's a ridiculous, insulting approach to running an online game. Bordering on sadistic, even. DE are like some twisted teacher on a playground trying to see how many of the kids toys they can intentionally break before the kids quit playing early and go back inside to their homework.

At this point, they don't WANT the vast majority to enjoy the game. They want people looking for enjoyable game play to stick to the main.game while BUYING the event stuff to skip the sheer Tedium.

This.is free to play gone terribly, horribly wrong.

well it just means that a select few enemies require a certain type of setup to beat.

[JalakBali]

On 4/9/2018 at 8:00 AM, Gandergear said:

5. Remove the dumb damage cap from the hemocyte, if you want him to have more hp, GIVE HIM MORE HP, get rid of his ridiculous armor too, there's no reason why 18000+ damage weapons give you 300 damage a hit, or why 1200 damage full autos plinking 30-90. Who at DE decided that enemies should have 99.99% damage reduction instead of just having appropriate HP, why is the design case for shattering impact worse when it should have been a viable option?

Just chiming in that this idea is bad and have always been bad in this game. Unlike in other games where your DPS might vary from class to class between 100 to 300, in this game your DPS might vary from 100 to 1,000,000 between frames. Now, let's do some logical scenario: how many shots should a maxed out Chroma do to kill this particular enemy? Now, calculate how many shots a non-Chroma need to take the enemy down. This is the problem with making a bullet sponge enemy in this game.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

2 hours ago, JalakBali said:

Just chiming in that this idea is bad and have always been bad in this game. Unlike in other games where your DPS might vary from class to class between 100 to 300, in this game your DPS might vary from 100 to 1,000,000 between frames. Now, let's do some logical scenario: how many shots should a maxed out Chroma do to kill this particular enemy? Now, calculate how many shots a non-Chroma need to take the enemy down. This is the problem with making a bullet sponge enemy in this game.

exactly, depending on the sponginess of the enemy its either going to be a cakewalk for chroma, or nigh impossible for everyone else. having damage caps on certain bosses allows a wider range of loadouts be "viable"

[Gandergear]

5 hours ago, JalakBali said:

Just chiming in that this idea is bad and have always been bad in this game. Unlike in other games where your DPS might vary from class to class between 100 to 300, in this game your DPS might vary from 100 to 1,000,000 between frames. Now, let's do some logical scenario: how many shots should a maxed out Chroma do to kill this particular enemy? Now, calculate how many shots a non-Chroma need to take the enemy down. This is the problem with making a bullet sponge enemy in this game.

Ive already disussed DEs bad damage scalibg before, but thats just proof of bad design if DE cant balance the gane without cheating on the mechanics

[Sintag]

Ohhhh...kay.

Firstly, Tedium Star rolls off the tongue better (and that's not my point, it's just...you missed a golden opportunity man!)

Second...yeah, OK:  The cap on Hemocyte is already pretty bad, especially for snipers; Maybe raise it?  I don't want this thing to be one-shotted, but I also like having my Vectis Prime (Albeit, it's built to murder Eidolons) mean something.  I don't want to have my logically-should-be-stronger-but-aren't bullets doing the same as regular bullets.

Also, yes, the distance (and some of the time) could stand to drop.  Maybe don't ping us from one literal end of the Plains to the other, game, have us start on the outskirts relative to the boil and work in instead?

For instance, you start at a cave.  Move 400m inward to the mixer.  You make the toxin.  Wait two minutes, presumably do a mixing.  Grab the toxin.  Move another 200m, find the drone, and get it moving.  Drone takes roughly 100 meters to get to the boil.  Then the pub brawl begins.  It'd make more sense then 'HERE'S POINT A, HERE'S POINT B FIFTY THOUSAND MILES AWAY, THEN GET TO POINT C AND TAKE IT FOR WALKIES FOR LIKE I DUNNO THE ENTIRE DISTANCE IT'D TAKE TO WALK IN A STRAIGHT LINE THROUGH THE EURASIAN CONTINENT ok here's your action.'

[Ham_Grenabe]

3 hours ago, Sintag said:

...my Vectis Prime (Albeit, it's built to murder Eidolons)...

Ayup. We players focused on creating weapons and builds designed to one-shot the damn Eidolons, which has the carryover effect of being able to basically one-shot anything else you can see.

DE, on the other hand, has outright said "we don't want you one-shotting our stuff," so they're making painful changes to warframes and weapons and implementing damage caps and whatnot. 

I'm not sure exactly what Digital Extremes expected here. I have a feeling they didn't really think this through very well. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Ham_Grenabe

[----Fenrir----]

Damage caps are useless. It just makes people use different weapons. With Rhino (Roar) it takes me around 5 seconds to plop a head with the Baza. And its the same with other high fire rate weapons like the Soma.

[Sintag]

4 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

DE, on the other hand, has outright said "we don't want you one-shotting our stuff," so they're making painful changes to warframes and weapons and implementing damage caps and whatnot. 

In fairness, a good deal of the changes to Warframes was either requested QoL (Ash's Bladestorm no longer forcing you along for the ride, everything to do with Zephyr), fixing up some old, problematic equations (Vex Armor, looking at you...) or reworks for Warframes that needed hem (Atlas).

And the weapon changes were absolutely needed, both for balancing statistics and balancing user needs.  Beam weapons that didn't begin with Ig and end with nis were given a breath of fresh air, for one thing.  For another, several older guns had fallen off the scale due to that specter, power creep; Now they've become relevant for, if nobody else, the MR requirements where you can first acquire these guns.

[Ham_Grenabe]

I was actually specifically addressing Arca Plasmor and Chroma - I shouldn't have painted with such a broad brush. The rest of the changes were mostly great, but the one-shot Chroma Plasmor was what I think got DE in a tizzy about one-shotting their bosses. 

[Sintag]

On 4/11/2018 at 2:53 PM, Ham_Grenabe said:

I was actually specifically addressing Arca Plasmor and Chroma - I shouldn't have painted with such a broad brush. The rest of the changes were mostly great, but the one-shot Chroma Plasmor was what I think got DE in a tizzy about one-shotting their bosses. 

Fair enough, fair enough.  I still think the damage cap (maybe the health, to a lesser extent) should be raised some to allow sniper rifles to perform as great as Soma Primes, but that's just me.  And the whole spiel about distance; Start on the outside, work in, that sorta thing.

[Ham_Grenabe]

I agree -- it's super annoying that weapons we've spent time to make devastating aren't allowed to be devastating against this boss because it would trivialize it. 

That definitely speaks to me of a need to break the mold in mission design. Stage 1 - Stage 2 - Stage 3 - Boss is easy and familiar, but at this point I think we've moved beyond "traditional boss" setups in terms of what can possibly challenge advanced (or even reasonably advanced) players.

And this boss in particular. A single Nox can make a team sit up and listen faster than the Hemocyte. 

[BlackCoMerc]

On 4/11/2018 at 5:48 AM, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

exactly, depending on the sponginess of the enemy its either going to be a cakewalk for chroma, or nigh impossible for everyone else. having damage caps on certain bosses allows a wider range of loadouts be "viable"

Good game design and balance would also allow this, without gimping your players and invalidating their time and effort.

Damage cap is basically developer trolling.

[BlackCoMerc]

On 4/11/2018 at 2:53 PM, Ham_Grenabe said:

I was actually specifically addressing Arca Plasmor and Chroma - I shouldn't have painted with such a broad brush. The rest of the changes were mostly great, but the one-shot Chroma Plasmor was what I think got DE in a tizzy about one-shotting their bosses. 

If they would balance their game properly, they would.not have this problem.

The honest way to say this is that DE is in a tizzy due to their past design mistakes and is taking it out on the players as opposed to.fixing their game.

Edited April 13, 2018 by BlackCoMerc