How about instead of trying to remove orbs, we remove the core source of the problem the affinity?

[Fallen_Echo]

So before i get thrown out of the airlock please hear me out!

I have read a lot of different threads and posts about the focus and its problems, how the base gain is low even with ediolon lenses, how the orb is bad and soo on and this just occurred to me.

Why not keep it and instead separate focus from affinity?

Currently with only ediolon lenses equipped you earn 2.25% of the affinity as focus and if you pick up the orb you earn 18% of the affinity as focus meaning that in the best case if you earned 300K affinity in a mission you get 54K focus what is awfully low.

The reasoning for orbs is to make leeching minimal, im okay with that but with these numbers the whole thing is a tedious grind what is still favoring leeching gameplays or excessively specialised playing.

So here comes my idea:

First we separate affinity from focus so it no longer matters how much affinity you gain if you want to farm focus. This is the most important change because without this we are stuck in an infinite spiral of "broken" metas.

Second focus from now on is earned when you do specific actions:

1. For moving atleast 30 meters you get 10 focus
2. Killing 5 enemies gives you 10 focus
3. Headshot kills give you 1 focus
4. Every new combo on a melee weapon earns 20 focus, must hit an enemy and change the attacks constantly
5. Using advanced movement aka bulletjump and others gives 2 focus per use
6. Reviving an ally who died from an enemy gives 50 focus
7. Using abilities from each tier gives 1 focus +3 for every tier higher than 1
8. Completing an objective and being atleast 50m close to it gives 50 focus
9. Extracting earns 100 focus if the mission was successful
10. Completing the affinity bonus challange gives you 100 focus
11. Stealth kills give you 2 focus
12. Toggle and duration based skills gives 1 focus for every 3 sec they are active
13. Using team consumables gives 10 focus

Now you might say that these numbers are awfully low but thats because they are not the main source of focus, they are additional sources to keep people moving and acting. You know to prevent afk leeching and so on, with this even a leecher is forced to do something actively as affinity no longer fills the focus bar.

 

Third, this is the main point here. The focus orb is now treated as a resource, so its affected by all resource boosters and the gains from it are dependant on how much focus the player collected from the above ones.

Five variants of focus orbs are able to spawn. Each have higher rewards and requies more to get:

1. The first variant is the standard orb you see normally here, you pick it up and you gain 500 focus and an additional bonus all affected by the lens multipler. The additional bonus is equal to the collected total amount of focus before the orb was picked up This additional bonus is the same on all other orbs. To spawn it the team only needs to do a mission normally, 20 dead enemies make one spawn. When you pick it up you also gain an x2 multipler for all above listed gain methods too for 45 second.
2. The second variant has glowing orange color and to get it the players need to get throught it with an advanced movement (bullet jump, roll, etc). This one spawns at random altitudes and gives 1000 focus with the additionals. To spawn this the team must kill atleast 50 enemies. After pickup it gives x3 modifier to the basic focus gains for 45 seconds.
3. The third variant is bright red, gives 2500 focus plus additionals. This one has some hp so it must be broken before it can be picked up. This one spawns after 100 enemies have been killed or an objective was finished. When picked up till the player dies this variant increases the focus gain from the shown methods by +5 till the end of the mission.
4. The fourth variant is a focus spirit looks similar to the human figures seen in the void or on lua. The spirit must be defeated to gain focus which is 5K plus additionals. The stats of the spirit defend on the avarage levels of the enemies around him when spawned. To spawn it the players must finish 2 objectives and kill atleast 50 enemies in total. This one reappears every time if the spawn conditions are met and there is no higher variant avaible to spawn.
5. The last variant is technically a void entity who grants 10K focus plus additionals is the players can defeat his champion, a frame copied from one of the players with upscaled health depending on the avarage levels of the current enemies. To start it all players must go to the spirit and agree with his challange. When the clone is defeated as a bonus the gain by methods is increased by +10 till the end of the mission. (this stacks with the reward of the third) To spawn it the players need to either kill atleast 200 enemies, complete 3 objectives or defeat the focus spirit (the 4th level guy) atleast 2 times.

 

Now lets go to the numbers, on an avarage extermination mission you do the following:

You killed 50 guys, thats 100 focus.

Used your first skill 20 times, thats 20 focus.

Bullet jumped atleast 30 times and rolled 10 times, thats 80 focus.

Revived a guy who thought its a good idea to bring a freshly formad mag against the grineer with only a melee weapon, thats 50 focus.

In total you earned 250 focus by these, not too much but also you have picked up the orbs. The first level orb for killing spawned 2 times so you got total 1533 focus from them. The second level spawned once and gave you 1278 focus. The mission was finished so the third one spawns giving you 2811 focus.

You have earned a total of 5872 while playing as casually as it can get. With this system the active players are rewarded and the orbs spawn for everybody once the teamgoals are finished. Im also sure that the gains are not too much to make the focus system a "I want it NOW" type of thing.

This is the end, please feel free to comment, suggest or point out problems.

[(XBOX)Red X278]

This would be really useful especially since if I want to finish madari, I think I spelled that very wrong, I either need equinox and or this set up for focus farm or killing every eidolon there is or play probably for the rest of the year.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

This is a nice suggestion, but the lore behind the different Focus gains you have is weird and impractical since you can't really complete three different objectives in one mission unless it's a quest or something special.

And if we separated Focus from Affinity, then what would really be the point of Affinity?

Edited April 16, 2018 by (PS4)ArtPrince17

[Fallen_Echo]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Red X278 said:

This would be really useful especially since if I want to finish madari, I think I spelled that very wrong, I either need equinox and or this set up for focus farm or killing every eidolon there is or play probably for the rest of the year.

I can feel the cold creeping up on my back from the thought that to finish any of the focus trees i might need to cap tridolons go to adaro.

[Ferah_Frithu]

Just now, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

then what would really be the point of Affinity. 

Leveling frames, sentinels and weapons?

[Emulad0or]

Looks interesting, but how would it actually change from the current "gameplay"? What I mean by this is, wouldn't it still be easier for someone using, let's say, a Banshee on Hydron to farm Focus? Kills tons on enemies, spawns several orbs with this, etc. What would actually change?

Edited April 16, 2018 by Emulad0or

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Red X278 said:

This would be really useful especially since if I want to finish madari, I think I spelled that very wrong, I either need equinox and or this set up for focus farm or killing every eidolon there is or play probably for the rest of the year.

It's not that hard. Finishing a Focus tree could be around maybe 100 Teralysts, 50 Gantulysts, and 25 Hydrolysts. Maybe only about 1 week worth of nights.

And it's Madurai.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

16 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

So before i get thrown out of the airlock please hear me out!

I have read a lot of different threads and posts about the focus and its problems, how the base gain is low even with ediolon lenses, how the orb is bad and soo on and this just occurred to me.

Why not keep it and instead separate focus from affinity?

Currently with only ediolon lenses equipped you earn 2.25% of the affinity as focus and if you pick up the orb you earn 18% of the affinity as focus meaning that in the best case if you earned 300K affinity in a mission you get 54K focus what is awfully low.

The reasoning for orbs is to make leeching minimal, im okay with that but with these numbers the whole thing is a tedious grind what is still favoring leeching gameplays or excessively specialised playing.

So here comes my idea:

First we separate affinity from focus so it no longer matters how much affinity you gain if you want to farm focus. This is the most important change because without this we are stuck in an infinite spiral of "broken" metas.

Second focus from now on is earned when you do specific actions:

1. For moving atleast 30 meters you get 10 focus
2. Killing 5 enemies gives you 10 focus
3. Headshot kills give you 1 focus
4. Every new combo on a melee weapon earns 20 focus, must hit an enemy and change the attacks constantly
5. Using advanced movement aka bulletjump and others gives 2 focus per use
6. Reviving an ally who died from an enemy gives 50 focus
7. Using abilities from each tier gives 1 focus +3 for every tier higher than 1
8. Completing an objective and being atleast 50m close to it gives 50 focus
9. Extracting earns 100 focus if the mission was successful
10. Completing the affinity bonus challange gives you 100 focus
11. Stealth kills give you 2 focus
12. Toggle and duration based skills gives 1 focus for every 3 sec they are active
13. Using team consumables gives 10 focus

Now you might say that these numbers are awfully low but thats because they are not the main source of focus, they are additional sources to keep people moving and acting. You know to prevent afk leeching and so on, with this even a leecher is forced to do something actively as affinity no longer fills the focus bar.

 

Third, this is the main point here. The focus orb is now treated as a resource, so its affected by all resource boosters and the gains from it are dependant on how much focus the player collected from the above ones.

Five variants of focus orbs are able to spawn. Each have higher rewards and requies more to get:

1. The first variant is the standard orb you see normally here, you pick it up and you gain 500 focus and an additional bonus all affected by the lens multipler. The additional bonus is equal to the collected total amount of focus before the orb was picked up This additional bonus is the same on all other orbs. To spawn it the team only needs to do a mission normally, 20 dead enemies make one spawn. When you pick it up you also gain an x2 multipler for all above listed gain methods too for 45 second.
2. The second variant has glowing orange color and to get it the players need to get throught it with an advanced movement (bullet jump, roll, etc). This one spawns at random altitudes and gives 1000 focus with the additionals. To spawn this the team must kill atleast 50 enemies. After pickup it gives x3 modifier to the basic focus gains for 45 seconds.
3. The third variant is bright red, gives 2500 focus plus additionals. This one has some hp so it must be broken before it can be picked up. This one spawns after 100 enemies have been killed or an objective was finished. When picked up till the player dies this variant increases the focus gain from the shown methods by +5 till the end of the mission.
4. The fourth variant is a focus spirit looks similar to the human figures seen in the void or on lua. The spirit must be defeated to gain focus which is 5K plus additionals. The stats of the spirit defend on the avarage levels of the enemies around him when spawned. To spawn it the players must finish 2 objectives and kill atleast 50 enemies in total. This one reappears every time if the spawn conditions are met and there is no higher variant avaible to spawn.
5. The last variant is technically a void entity who grants 10K focus plus additionals is the players can defeat his champion, a frame copied from one of the players with upscaled health depending on the avarage levels of the current enemies. To start it all players must go to the spirit and agree with his challange. When the clone is defeated as a bonus the gain by methods is increased by +10 till the end of the mission. (this stacks with the reward of the third) To spawn it the players need to either kill atleast 200 enemies, complete 3 objectives or defeat the focus spirit (the 4th level guy) atleast 2 times.

 

Now lets go to the numbers, on an avarage extermination mission you do the following:

You killed 50 guys, thats 100 focus.

Used your first skill 20 times, thats 20 focus.

Bullet jumped atleast 30 times and rolled 10 times, thats 80 focus.

Revived a guy who thought its a good idea to bring a freshly formad mag against the grineer with only a melee weapon, thats 50 focus.

In total you earned 250 focus by these, not too much but also you have picked up the orbs. The first level orb for killing spawned 2 times so you got total 1533 focus from them. The second level spawned once and gave you 1278 focus. The mission was finished so the third one spawns giving you 2811 focus.

You have earned a total of 5872 while playing as casually as it can get. With this system the active players are rewarded and the orbs spawn for everybody once the teamgoals are finished. Im also sure that the gains are not too much to make the focus system a "I want it NOW" type of thing.

This is the end, please feel free to comment, suggest or point out problems.

This would make the time required to reach daily cap much longer then it is now.

Also, there is a lot of potential for exploitation for some of your proposed focus gain methods, like number 7, which could be exploited with quite a few frames.

Overall, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. While it does fix the problem of kills being the only source of focus, it introduces a far more complicated and more readily exploitable system that is less rewarding. I cannot find any way to reconcile that.

EDIT: I would like for you to outline exactly how long you estimate it would take to max daily focus using the system you propose, as you would have the clearest idea of that in your head as you were the one to make it.

Edited April 16, 2018 by -AoN-CanoLathra-

[Fallen_Echo]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

This is a nice suggestion, but the lore behind the different Focus gains you have is weird and impractical since you can't really complete three different objectives in one mission unless it's a quest or something special.

And if we separated Focus from Affinity, then what would really be the point of Affinity. 

From what i know focus comes from your understanding of the void power and your frame, what else would give you more than using it?

As for what would be the point of affinity? Levelling stuff.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

1 minute ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

Leveling frames, sentinels and weapons?

Outside of that. Which would be nothing.

[Ferah_Frithu]

Just now, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Outside of that. Which would be nothing.

But... that was the point of affinity before Focus was even introduced.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

Just now, Ferah_Frithu said:

But... that was the point of affinity before Focus was even introduced.

Yeah, I would like to see it changed. It's pretty much just there outside of Focus. Y'know, be useful for other stuff.

[Fallen_Echo]

4 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Looks interesting, but how would it actually change from the current "gameplay"? What I mean by this is, wouldn't it still be easier for someone using, let's say, a Banshee on Hydron to farm Focus? Kills tons on enemies, spawns several orbs with this, etc. What would actually change?

For first that for maximum efficiency you are not force hammered into getting a banshee to go to hydron for max focus gains.

Second, it would remove the leeching aspect too.

[Emulad0or]

4 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

For first that for maximum efficiency you are not force hammered into getting a banshee to go to hydron for max focus gains.

Second, it would remove the leeching aspect too.

Sure, you are not forced, but at the same time, it would still be the "most efficient way", so people farming Focus would still feel forced to do it like this.

Not only that, people could still leech, they would not get the kills, but they would get the orbs without doing anything but walking around and collecting them. They would receive less, but would still receive the focus from the orbs, no?

[chainchompguy3]

And now it's coming back around...

 

Focus was originally introduced as a vague promise from the devs, that one day all the extra affinity level 30 weapons got would have a use.

Then, we got focus 1.0: A weird little passive/actives tree. It wasn't what everyone wanted, but it was new and interesting, so we just went with it.

Then, focus 2.0 came round: Tie it completely to the Operator. It's the operator's level-up system.

But now that it's a dedicated level-up system, for a dedicated part of our arsenal, we want to be able to actually level it up.

But since it's designed with the impression that you're gaining focus passively, over a long period of time, the numbers are utterly grind-tastic.

So players do what they do best: become efficient, and trivialize.

Now we have "max focus cap in 1 mission" builds, and affinity farms.

And players are now thinking of removing focus from affinity.

[Tsukinoki]

4 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Second, it would remove the leeching aspect too.

Sorry but I have to utterly disagree with this point.
It would do nothing to stop leeching.  The only thing it would do is create another form of leeching.

All a leecher would have to do is follow the team around, bullet jumping, rolling, and spamming their max-effinciency builds into corners as they wait for the team, or randomness, to spawn them an orb and then they would collect the orb and get all of the bonuses as well as the constant small amounts from basically just existing with all of your ideas granting them focus for basically breathing in the game.

Lets use your numbers for an active player:

35 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

You killed 50 guys, thats 100 focus.

Used your first skill 20 times, thats 20 focus.

Bullet jumped atleast 30 times and rolled 10 times, thats 80 focus.

Revived a guy who thought its a good idea to bring a freshly formad mag against the grineer with only a melee weapon, thats 50 focus.

In total you earned 250 focus by these, not too much but also you have picked up the orbs. The first level orb for killing spawned 2 times so you got total 1533 focus from them. The second level spawned once and gave you 1278 focus. The mission was finished so the third one spawns giving you 2811 focus.

You have earned a total of 5872 while playing as casually as it can get

Now say a leecher was with them.
He was a max efficiency frost and bullet jumped everywhere spamming his snow-globe non stop.
He didn't kill a single enemy but used his 3rd ability 75 times, that is 525 focus at 7 focus per cast (1 + 3 per tier above first)
He bullet jumped 100 times easily as he was mostly just bullet jumping in circles around the room, so he got 200 focus from that.
He didn't revive anyone, but he did manage to travel a modest 2KM in the mission by non-stop bullet jumping.  That is another 667 focus.
Already he is at 1392 focus, nearly 6 times as much focus for not killing a single enemy and just bullet jumping non-stop while spamming abilities.
And this is before any bonuses from the orbs that he picks up as well, so in reality it could be much higher.

Since he stayed near the party he got all of the orbs as well, so he got 1533 focus from the first two, 1278 from the second level, and since he was within range he got teh third one as well.
In the end he got 7014 focus, a decent chunk more than the person who was actually playing the mission objective and killing stuff.

Sure, he might not have been an AFK leecher, but he was still a leecher and got a chunk more focus because of it.
And heck, if he was fast enough at spamming his third ability and had a stock of energy restores he could have gotten about as much with just a few bullet jumps after the party to keep up while spamming his three ability in a corner and dropping energy restores on himself for 10 focus per energy restore and 7 per ability cast, and could have skipped being a hyper-active bunny.

So no, your idea doesn't do anything to deter leechers.  In fact the only thing it really does is encourage them to be more spammy and annoying instead of sitting in a corner and being forgotten.

[Synpai]

There will always be a "meta;" as it's the shortest distance between two points.

Really the gains are just too low for general/non-booster gameplay.

 

They've a hard time balancing for the non booster, casual players and the focus farm w/ booster players.

 

Same goes for the Tridolons. Hard to find a balance where casual players can get decent gains without trivializing the gains for the hardcore hunters.

[Fallen_Echo]

6 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

This would make the time required to reach daily cap much longer then it is now.

Also, there is a lot of potential for exploitation for some of your proposed focus gain methods, like number 7, which could be exploited with quite a few frames.

Overall, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. While it does fix the problem of kills being the only source of focus, it introduces a far more complicated and more readily exploitable system that is less rewarding. I cannot find any way to reconcile that.

EDIT: I would like for you to outline exactly how long you estimate it would take to max daily focus using the system you propose, as you would have the clearest idea of that in your head as you were the one to make it.

 

Okay lets see.

For reference our node will by Hyeracon as it requies a lot of movement and has plenty of spawns while being endless.

36 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

• For moving atleast 30 meters you get 10 focus
• Killing 5 enemies gives you 10 focus
• Headshot kills give you 1 focus
• Every new combo on a melee weapon earns 20 focus, must hit an enemy and change the attacks constantly
• Using advanced movement aka bulletjump and others gives 2 focus per use
• Reviving an ally who died from an enemy gives 50 focus
• Using abilities from each tier gives 1 focus +3 for every tier higher than 1
• Completing an objective and being atleast 50m close to it gives 50 focus
• Extracting earns 100 focus if the mission was successful
• Completing the affinity bonus challange gives you 100 focus
• Stealth kills give you 2 focus
• Toggle and duration based skills gives 1 focus for every 3 sec they are active
• Using team consumables gives 10 focus

 

The smallest possible distance what can spawn objectives the closest to each other seems to be 60 meter while the longest between areas is 300 meter.

Grouping them together and saying that you do a 2K run means you done 20 of them each time you have moved 60 meter between 2 low distance and 300 meter between the long distance. You have walked around approx 3360 meters. That in itself earned you 1120 focus in total and you move an avarage 360 meters between objectives if they spawn the furthest away.

Assuming that you are using bulletjump for everything what is further than 30m you have jumped atleast 112 times what gives you 224 focus.

As a reference how many kills are possible i used this video :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfOrFec6cc

 

This guy have killed 1291 infested in this run so an avarage 64 enemies per objective. The kills in itself earned 2581 focus.

There were 126 headshot kills too what grant additional 126 focus, not much but still.

He sadly has not showed how many times he used an ability so lets just say he casted his first 100 times. Thats 100 focus an avarage 5 per objective.

He completed 20 objectives what earns additional 1000 focus.

So in total he earned 5151 focus.

Now for the numbers on the orbs:

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

• The first variant is the standard orb you see normally here, you pick it up and you gain 500 focus and an additional bonus all affected by the lens multipler. The additional bonus is equal to the collected total amount of focus before the orb was picked up This additional bonus is the same on all other orbs. To spawn it the team only needs to do a mission normally, 20 dead enemies make one spawn. When you pick it up you also gain an x2 multipler for all above listed gain methods too for 45 second.
• The second variant has glowing orange color and to get it the players need to get throught it with an advanced movement (bullet jump, roll, etc). This one spawns at random altitudes and gives 1000 focus with the additionals. To spawn this the team must kill atleast 50 enemies. After pickup it gives x3 modifier to the basic focus gains for 45 seconds.
• The third variant is bright red, gives 2500 focus plus additionals. This one has some hp so it must be broken before it can be picked up. This one spawns after 100 enemies have been killed or an objective was finished. When picked up till the player dies this variant increases the focus gain from the shown methods by +5 till the end of the mission.
• The fourth variant is a focus spirit looks similar to the human figures seen in the void or on lua. The spirit must be defeated to gain focus which is 5K plus additionals. The stats of the spirit defend on the avarage levels of the enemies around him when spawned. To spawn it the players must finish 2 objectives and kill atleast 50 enemies in total. This one reappears every time if the spawn conditions are met and there is no higher variant avaible to spawn.
• The last variant is technically a void entity who grants 10K focus plus additionals is the players can defeat his champion, a frame copied from one of the players with upscaled health depending on the avarage levels of the current enemies. To start it all players must go to the spirit and agree with his challange. When the clone is defeated as a bonus the gain by methods is increased by +10 till the end of the mission. (this stacks with the reward of the third) To spawn it the players need to either kill atleast 200 enemies, complete 3 objectives or defeat the focus spirit (the 4th level guy) atleast 2 times.

The first orb has spawned 64 times that means you got 32K focus from this.

The second variant spawned 25 times giving 25K focus.

The third variant spawned 20 times giving 50K focus.

The fourth variant spawned 10 times giving out 50K focus.

The fifth variant spawned atleast 6 times giving out 60K focus.

We are now at 217K focus for one 2K run on hyeracon and the additionals are not counted in yet.

If he only killed half of the avarage enemies with the multipler per objective that means he got an additional 640 focus per first level orb the final number for the first level orb is 44.8K.

The second variant spawned 25 times and if he only killed half the avarage enemies he got an additional 9.6K focus what means the total here is 59.6K.

The third variants bonus is now applied with the assuption that he did not died at all.

The first variants bonus is now 960 per first level or and the new final number is 41.6K focus.

The second variant gets this too and now its 86K focus.

With these applied we have capped focus and the fifth variants bonus and the lens bonus has not been applied yet, its also affected by resource boosters too.

 

Now to how good is this i dont know, i do know that there are videos out there where someone with sleepynox caps focus in 15 minutes so i leave the judgement to you.

If you think the initial numbers are too low feel free to suggest them to be higher.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Now say a leecher was with them.
He was a max efficiency frost and bullet jumped everywhere spamming his snow-globe non stop.
He didn't kill a single enemy but used his 3rd ability 75 times, that is 525 focus at 7 focus per cast (1 + 3 per tier above first)
He bullet jumped 100 times easily as he was mostly just bullet jumping in circles around the room, so he got 200 focus from that.
He didn't revive anyone, but he did manage to travel a modest 2KM in the mission by non-stop bullet jumping.  That is another 667 focus.
Already he is at 1392 focus, nearly 6 times as much focus for not killing a single enemy and just bullet jumping non-stop while spamming abilities.
And this is before any bonuses from the orbs that he picks up as well, so in reality it could be much higher.

Since he stayed near the party he got all of the orbs as well, so he got 1533 focus from the first two, 1278 from the second level, and since he was within range he got teh third one as well.
In the end he got 7014 focus, a decent chunk more than the person who was actually playing the mission objective and killing stuff.

Sure, he might not have been an AFK leecher, but he was still a leecher and got a chunk more focus because of it.
And heck, if he was fast enough at spamming his third ability and had a stock of energy restores he could have gotten about as much with just a few bullet jumps after the party to keep up while spamming his three ability in a corner and dropping energy restores on himself for 10 focus per energy restore and 7 per ability cast, and could have skipped being a hyper-active bunny.

So no, your idea doesn't do anything to deter leechers.  In fact the only thing it really does is encourage them to be more spammy and annoying instead of sitting in a corner and being forgotten.

Now please tell me would you rather sit in a corner watching focus grow passively or actually start to move around a spam stuff. I do not think that when it requies effort a leecher would truely go and do it because if you have the time to bulletjump in circles and spam globes you might aswell go and play the game too.

 

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I like the idea, but it doesn't solve the main issue I've had with Focus since it was implemented. The problem is the timing in which it spawns and the actual ability to gain Affinity within the given time limit. 

Do an Equinox stealth run on Adaro, Sedna and get 30,000 Focus or more. Do a Hydron, Sedna defense mission to wave 20 and get 80,000 focus. These are great places to farm those Focus points, but that with lenses on each of your weapons and having a squad that communicates the entire time to maximize Focus gains. 

The timing (and sometimes location) of the Focus Orbs spawning is a major problem because sometimes it decides to follow it's own schedule and even vets make silly mistakes such as a Syndicate proc going off when it shouldn't or bumping your first power on Equinox and there goes your time... 

(Don't even get me started on the time waster of an elevator on Grineer defense missions!) 

I wish you had a meter that filled that could be activated when you wanted as opposed to waiting and then getting your time to Focus, but everything has already dropped dead due to boredom or over zealous teammates. (Here's to you Limbo, Banshee, Volt, and Nova players!) 

I also think you should be able to earn a 2% or less, Focus gain passively for your main Focus School even without a lense. This would really help players new to Focus in general actually want to try to farm Focus as opposed to it feeling like a tacked on extra. If you have a lense equipped on each of your items in your current loadout those lenses will override your passive gain and function as is now... 

I really do like the Focus levels you introduced, though! I also like the ability to gain Focus from movement and using abilities as well. It's still missing something I can't put my finger on yet. 

 

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Now please tell me would you rather sit in a corner watching focus grow passively or actually start to move around a spam stuff. I do not think that when it requies effort a leecher would truely go and do it because if you have the time to bulletjump in circles and spam globes you might aswell go and play the game too.

And like I brought up at the bottom:
A properly spammy frame with energy restores can sit in a corner and spam bilities, only occasionally moving when an orb spawns before going back into a corner and spamming abilities, while occasionally dropping a restore and get more focus than the people "playing the game".

Hek, that requires just as much effort as the current method of "Chase after party to stay in affinity range and collect orbs and don't do anything else, especially in defense or survival maps where you can easily bullet jump in a corner and spam abilities without even really looking at the game.

The only thing the leecher cares about is "Is it easier than doing it 'properly'?"
And the idea you suggest is "Yes, it is easier to sit in a corner and spam my globe non-stop and get as much, if not more, focus than someone doing it 'properly'."

It really wouldn't require more effort from the leecher than avoiding the AFK timer while keeping up with the squad does currently.

EDIT:
The other problem with your idea, now that I think about it, is that it gives absolutely zero reason to do higher level content at all.
In fact I could get as much focus by sitting on an Earth excavation node as I could on a pluto excavation node, and quite a lot easier as well with far less risks.  Why spend the time at higher levels when a low level endless node will get up to roughly the same enemy density in the long run, yet I can stay much longer with much lower level enemies?
i mean what would be the point of higher level nodes at that point?
At least the current system encourages you to play the higher level nodes instead of bumming it in a low-level dark-sector for all of your focus.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[TurquoiseGnome]

2 hours ago, Synpai said:

There will always be a "meta;" as it's the shortest distance between two points.

Basically the problem with any solution I've seen so far is this and the fact that if the devs want to make the shortest route longer its probably going to impact the other, longer routes as well.

If the devs want to remove meta focus farming then my suggestion would be to make focus gain a passive that triggers when you deal damage to an enemy, complete an objective, use an ability, or something along those lines.  After it triggers you start gain x focus per second.  Triggering the passive again resets the timer for the passive.  At the end of the mission any extra time left on the passive is converted into focus so you don't have people waiting for the timer to run out before leaving the mission.  The orbs could double the amount of focus you gain per second.  Even if you gained about 70 focus a second from this passive then it would take an hour of normal play time to reach the daily limit.

I'm not sure if I think that's a good idea but doing something like that or similar is the only way I see of removing the shortest possible path.  Basically make all paths exactly the same length.  As soon as you start bringing in some form of experience/affinity for doing x then players will find the fastest way to do x.

Just to reiterate but I don't know if I like my own idea for getting focus but it's the only thing I could think of that would be less exploitable then having it based off of experience of some kind. 

[Synpai]

22 minutes ago, TurquoiseGnome said:

Basically the problem with any solution I've seen so far is this and the fact that if the devs want to make the shortest route longer its probably going to impact the other, longer routes as well.

If the devs want to remove meta focus farming then my suggestion would be to make focus gain a passive that triggers when you deal damage to an enemy, complete an objective, use an ability, or something along those lines.  After it triggers you start gain x focus per second.  Triggering the passive again resets the timer for the passive.  At the end of the mission any extra time left on the passive is converted into focus so you don't have people waiting for the timer to run out before leaving the mission.  The orbs could double the amount of focus you gain per second.  Even if you gained about 70 focus a second from this passive then it would take an hour of normal play time to reach the daily limit.

I'm not sure if I think that's a good idea but doing something like that or similar is the only way I see of removing the shortest possible path.  Basically make all paths exactly the same length.  As soon as you start bringing in some form of experience/affinity for doing x then players will find the fastest way to do x.

Just to reiterate but I don't know if I like my own idea for getting focus but it's the only thing I could think of that would be less exploitable then having it based off of experience of some kind. 

There's a meta to this as well though, doing things to ensure no down time in-between passive gains, which would still cause differences in time taken to reach daily cap.

Not to mention your idea, puts affinity back into its worthless state for players with maxed weapons and would become more of a chore than the current afk massacre. 

[Gandergear]

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

So before i get thrown out of the airlock please hear me out!

I have read a lot of different threads and posts about the focus and its problems, how the base gain is low even with ediolon lenses, how the orb is bad and soo on and this just occurred to me.

Why not keep it and instead separate focus from affinity?

Currently with only ediolon lenses equipped you earn 2.25% of the affinity as focus and if you pick up the orb you earn 18% of the affinity as focus meaning that in the best case if you earned 300K affinity in a mission you get 54K focus what is awfully low.

The reasoning for orbs is to make leeching minimal, im okay with that but with these numbers the whole thing is a tedious grind what is still favoring leeching gameplays or excessively specialised playing.

So here comes my idea:

First we separate affinity from focus so it no longer matters how much affinity you gain if you want to farm focus. This is the most important change because without this we are stuck in an infinite spiral of "broken" metas.

Second focus from now on is earned when you do specific actions:

1. For moving atleast 30 meters you get 10 focus
2. Killing 5 enemies gives you 10 focus
3. Headshot kills give you 1 focus
4. Every new combo on a melee weapon earns 20 focus, must hit an enemy and change the attacks constantly
5. Using advanced movement aka bulletjump and others gives 2 focus per use
6. Reviving an ally who died from an enemy gives 50 focus
7. Using abilities from each tier gives 1 focus +3 for every tier higher than 1
8. Completing an objective and being atleast 50m close to it gives 50 focus
9. Extracting earns 100 focus if the mission was successful
10. Completing the affinity bonus challange gives you 100 focus
11. Stealth kills give you 2 focus
12. Toggle and duration based skills gives 1 focus for every 3 sec they are active
13. Using team consumables gives 10 focus

Now you might say that these numbers are awfully low but thats because they are not the main source of focus, they are additional sources to keep people moving and acting. You know to prevent afk leeching and so on, with this even a leecher is forced to do something actively as affinity no longer fills the focus bar.

 

Third, this is the main point here. The focus orb is now treated as a resource, so its affected by all resource boosters and the gains from it are dependant on how much focus the player collected from the above ones.

Five variants of focus orbs are able to spawn. Each have higher rewards and requies more to get:

1. The first variant is the standard orb you see normally here, you pick it up and you gain 500 focus and an additional bonus all affected by the lens multipler. The additional bonus is equal to the collected total amount of focus before the orb was picked up This additional bonus is the same on all other orbs. To spawn it the team only needs to do a mission normally, 20 dead enemies make one spawn. When you pick it up you also gain an x2 multipler for all above listed gain methods too for 45 second.
2. The second variant has glowing orange color and to get it the players need to get throught it with an advanced movement (bullet jump, roll, etc). This one spawns at random altitudes and gives 1000 focus with the additionals. To spawn this the team must kill atleast 50 enemies. After pickup it gives x3 modifier to the basic focus gains for 45 seconds.
3. The third variant is bright red, gives 2500 focus plus additionals. This one has some hp so it must be broken before it can be picked up. This one spawns after 100 enemies have been killed or an objective was finished. When picked up till the player dies this variant increases the focus gain from the shown methods by +5 till the end of the mission.
4. The fourth variant is a focus spirit looks similar to the human figures seen in the void or on lua. The spirit must be defeated to gain focus which is 5K plus additionals. The stats of the spirit defend on the avarage levels of the enemies around him when spawned. To spawn it the players must finish 2 objectives and kill atleast 50 enemies in total. This one reappears every time if the spawn conditions are met and there is no higher variant avaible to spawn.
5. The last variant is technically a void entity who grants 10K focus plus additionals is the players can defeat his champion, a frame copied from one of the players with upscaled health depending on the avarage levels of the current enemies. To start it all players must go to the spirit and agree with his challange. When the clone is defeated as a bonus the gain by methods is increased by +10 till the end of the mission. (this stacks with the reward of the third) To spawn it the players need to either kill atleast 200 enemies, complete 3 objectives or defeat the focus spirit (the 4th level guy) atleast 2 times.

 

Now lets go to the numbers, on an avarage extermination mission you do the following:

You killed 50 guys, thats 100 focus.

Used your first skill 20 times, thats 20 focus.

Bullet jumped atleast 30 times and rolled 10 times, thats 80 focus.

Revived a guy who thought its a good idea to bring a freshly formad mag against the grineer with only a melee weapon, thats 50 focus.

In total you earned 250 focus by these, not too much but also you have picked up the orbs. The first level orb for killing spawned 2 times so you got total 1533 focus from them. The second level spawned once and gave you 1278 focus. The mission was finished so the third one spawns giving you 2811 focus.

You have earned a total of 5872 while playing as casually as it can get. With this system the active players are rewarded and the orbs spawn for everybody once the teamgoals are finished. Im also sure that the gains are not too much to make the focus system a "I want it NOW" type of thing.

This is the end, please feel free to comment, suggest or point out problems.

Yeah go for it focus is a slog and i finished it, no reason to make the only worthwhile grind be eidolons and soon to be dead on arrival onslaught

[TurquoiseGnome]

12 minutes ago, Synpai said:

There's a meta to this as well though, doing things to ensure no down time in-between passive gains, which would still cause differences in time taken to reach daily cap.

Not to mention your idea, puts affinity back into its worthless state for players with maxed weapons and would become more of a chore than the current afk massacre. 

There are definitely problems with my idea but the difference in time to max out focus each day between someone doing it as fast as possible and someone just playing the game wouldn't be as large as it is right now.  Personally I wouldn't implement my idea however DE can't really have focus linked to affinity and expect people to not find the fastest way to farm it, regardless of whether that method is fun or not.

Separate idea: Have focus that doesn't count towards the daily limit as a reward for alerts.  You would still be able to get focus the way it currently works but it would be a little less of a grind and slightly more interesting than always doing the same thing over and over.  This wouldn't change how focus is farmed for the most part but at least it would add a little variety.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

The other problem with your idea, now that I think about it, is that it gives absolutely zero reason to do higher level content at all.

Adaro and the tridolon hunting were not really high level content too.

Currently as many have said theres absolutely no reason to do high level runs in warframe at all, those all died.

The highest level areas you can go now are top tier bounties, sorties and kuva floods, theres nothing else worthy and those are not used for focus farming unless we talk about eximus sorties.

Also while i get your concerns about leeching i gotta say the main objective is not to fight against it but to make the focus accusition much better for everyone.