(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)OnValkyrieWings]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

That's where you are wrong though. This wasn't change for the sake of change. They did this to unify both PC and Consoles for the sake of putting out easier and faster patches for both. Instead of coding something to PC and a different code to Consoles, it is all the same code now which makes things streamlined and easier to put out content.

HA, yeah, right.  Like the difference in UI means anything for patches.  DE will still take their time in porting over content.  The reality is it doesn't, unless they were going to implement changes to the UI which they're doing in a month given the delay for updates between consoles and PC's is such.  But after such?  This changes nothing.  An .obj is recognized as such across PC, Xbox and PS.  .mp3's aren't suddenly white noise on a PS or Xbox because they were first used on the PC port.  They all operate off of the same language, the same files and the same coding, the differences being in the slight differences that Sony has with the PS4 .  The code for UI interfacing doesn't change update to update unless DE actually has monkeys coding that need to rewrite the entire thing from the ground up every time they make an addition.

They did this because for some god awful reason, they needed to change something.  They didn't know how, they didn't know why, all they knew was they wanted to change something. 

And just because something is "streamlined" doesn't mean its better.  Shooting heroine into my eyes is a streamlined method to enjoying everything.  And DE deciding to go with a god awful cursor that is the opposite of such since that means they needed to entirely remake the UI interaction system they already had, and it sure isn't streamlined for us console peasants considering for the next month we're going to have to put up and deal with it until they MAYBE release something that is POSSIBLY better.

[RandomXZ]

If they are giving the option to turn off the cursor to consoles, give it to PC also.

Edited June 6, 2018 by RandomXZ

[(XBOX)lvx Reaper xvl]

Dear DE, I have abandoned all other games since I found warframe. Customizing warframes, builds, etc. used to be so easy. The pointer in some instances are OK but in most ways it has made the experience almost agonizing. It feels broken. Because I chose a console and not a mouse. It would be really nice to simply be able to turn on/off the pointer and give the console player a chance to stay in their comfort zone of controller use. Especially in menus. Please don't break the game, I really don't want to give up warframe. 

[(PSN)zhurang555]

Make cursor optional or take it away all together, you guys put up the excuse that is to bring the consoles to the same update as pc....Please stop lying we know the PS4 has the same architecture as pc, it's basically a pc.

Other companies are able to bring updates up to par to the PS4 and across other platforms, why can't you on a timely fashion?

On the other thread that you guys probably didn't care to read, we are all upset with the state of the UI and most of us can't play.

Can't sell, can't mod properly, no point in playing already.

Everything else is such a pain to deal with, also navigation was hard to understand because i kept zooming in and out of the planet.

Motion sickness is also plaguing this new update, the muscle memory is gone since all the short cuts were done away with...

 

[(PSN)Arts-Live-]

Feedback from a PS4 Tenno and his clan mates-

1. Cursor speed is too slow. With new cursor changes it takes longer to pm someone in chats. It is clunky and not the best way to do it for consoles. This cursor change is meant for PC and it must be really cool to do things like that in pc but please not with a controller. 

2. Sometimes even when hovering over someone's name or item in chat - the cursor gets stuck and doesn't respond to opening the pm - you will have to close the whole set of chat boxes and start again.

3. Grabbing mods into builds is extremely tedious to grab and drag with a controller and not to mention the cursor glitches out and doesn't land the mod into the right slot sometimes.

4. I acquired a painful wrist pain after trying to make builds and play around with the new UI for like 30 mins - This is a major turn off for old and new players alike - 

5. We really really need a Off/Disable Switch in the next hotfix - please make the UI turn it back to how it was 

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)artslive83 said:

Feedback from a PS4 Tenno and his clan mates-

1. Cursor speed is too slow. With new cursor changes it takes longer to pm someone in chats. It is clunky and not the best way to do it for consoles. This cursor change is meant for PC and it must be really cool to do things like that in pc but please not with a controller. 

2. Sometimes even when hovering over someone's name or item in chat - the cursor gets stuck and doesn't respond to opening the pm - you will have to close the whole set of chat boxes and start again.

3. Grabbing mods into builds is extremely tedious to grab and drag with a controller and not to mention the cursor glitches out and doesn't land the mod into the right slot sometimes.

4. I acquired a painful wrist pain after trying to make builds and play around with the new UI for like 30 mins - This is a major turn off for old and new players alike - 

5. We really really need a Off/Disable Switch in the next hotfix - please make the UI turn it back to how it was 

^^^ I have pains now too from the new UI.

[(PSN)Syntactycal]

Played with this a bit last night. Here is my feed back.

1. Please make dpad work like how it used to, or at least at the speed. Also see this twitter post about how moving from a long name to a short name item in the pause menu will skip it. Also, please allow dpad scrolling. Right now, when you get to the right side of mods you cannot continue holding right to scroll you have to physically scroll it with the analog stick. This is the same for the the other scrolling areas such as the foundry and warframe / weapon equip menu. DPAD navigation does not work in the RB tabs (alerts, sorites etc) I should be able to use the DPAD to navigate this like before.

There is also an issue with "leaving squad". Before I could just Start > Tap DPAD UP twice > hit X and boom, I was out. Now I have hit start, then move the sluggish cursor up to the small little hitbox of the leave squad option and then tap X. Its a hassle. Please allow us to maintain the quick method of doing this from before.

2. Mod manipulation now feels bad. Drag and drop is cool and all, however what if the mod I want to put in is not currently in view? Before I could choose a mod to remove, then I could scroll around until I found the new mod, then click on that and done. Now I have to always make sure I find the replacement mod first and then preform this clunky and slow controller drag and drop. I think you should get rid of drag and drop on console completely for this. Just allow us to select one and then swap like before. Can we also get the "Remove Mod" button back? It takes orders of magnitude longer now to clear all mods from a frame or weapon than it did before.

3. Fissures: Relic selection on "start fissure mission" I'm not sure why but it wont let me select the relic I want and start the match. I have to press X like 15 times before it works. On endless missions it seems to work ok between rotations. Also, choosing rewards is broken. I can use dpad to select the reward I want like before, however doing that does not actually move the cursor so when I hit X its selecting my reward, not the one that I highlighted with the dpad. Please fix this asap!

4. Shortcut Keys - Please bring these ALL back. I need to be able just select my Warframe and hit triangle to manage the mods, or square to do appearance, X to equip etc. I think foundry is missing hot keys and and I haven't checked but is the Loadout hotkey from navigation even still working? There is no reason the hotkeys cannot exist in the PC UI as well so this could still maintain your unified UI goal.

Also, I think I heard extractor management is an issue so I'll reiterate that here.

 

 

Please get fixes to cert asap as this was shipped in really poor shape.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)Syntactycal

[(XBOX)DeadlySoulKing]

For those saying you can just turn up the cursor speed to make things faster  that's not exactly what we mean by slower after playing for so long you build muscle memory and no matter how fast that cursor moves it's still gonna be slower than it was

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)DeadlySoulKing

[(PSN)Arc1723]

Coming from a point of privilege, Ima bring up the wheelchair in the room and pull out the "A" word.

 

Accessibility.

I have known people who after this UI "update" would not be able to play at all due to it being part of the primary structure of the game. Especially the idea to remove pre-existing shortcuts and not replace them with anything. Games have Invert Y for old bastards like me, they have color-blindness settings for those who have those issues. But to take away a quick, easy, efficient system that worked with a few clicks, and replace it with a ship in a bottle kit just for the sake of your development, is going about things in the wrong direction. Fix your code, not the interface.

[(PSN)KawaiiOctopi]

Played around with it for a little then had to log out from slight pains. Personally not enjoying something that causes pain.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

The cursor on console could be good (it's not currently) given the right set of UI interactions.

Imagine if when you hover over an item, all the shortcuts are in the overlay. Hover over an item and press your shortcut for a specific action. L1/R1 (PS) or LT/RT (XB) would toggle between information sub-menus as you see above. It would work with a mouse or a controller.

There are multiple games that manage to find a way to not only make a cursor work on console, but actually be preferred. One of the big problems with keyboard only interfaces is that they have practical limits on control density. The navigation screen is a good example of where the d-pad isn't so great. The other area are previously mentioned is anywhere you don't actually have a grid (chat links, browser).

That said, we're not past the ability to have both keyboard focus and mouse focus like an actual desktop has. It may be that the issue is that we no longer have keyboard navigation in the new system. And adding back keyboard/d-pad navigation could work.

It's going to take them time to iterate on the current design and many of these problems may simply go away with the newer mouse-centric UI. 

The current state of the UI isn't good. But it's not the end of the world either. There's a way to transition from what we have now to something usable -- and eventually -- good. Something that doesn't sacrifice their ability to deliver on future updates.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)FurryZenJustice

[(XBOX)Vexodin]

honestly, i'm not a huge fan of this update. i almost feel like i need a mouse and keyboard to play on my xbox. it feel clunky and counter intuitive.changing mods around is a whole almost arduous process when it used to be a simple click click done. selecting missions and loadouts is slower and less precise. i'm not angry but it seriously makes me want to play something else after a little while because of how much of a headache it is just to change frames.  i honestly liked the interface previously please consider returning it to a more user friendly version thank you. 

[(XBOX)Skyvernn]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

The cursor on console could be good (it's not currently) given the right set of UI interactions.

Imagine if when you hover over an item, all the shortcuts are in the overlay. Hover over an item and press your shortcut for a specific action. L1/R1 (PS) or LB/RB (XB) would toggle between information sub-menus as you see above (currently showing right-mouse-click). It would work with a mouse or a controller.

There are multiple games that manage to find a way to not only make a cursor work on console, but actually be preferred. One of the big problems with keyboard only interfaces is that they have practical limits on control density. The navigation screen is a good example of where the d-pad isn't so great. The other area are previously mentioned is anywhere you don't actually have a grid (chat links, browser).

That said, we're not past the ability to have both keyboard focus and mouse focus like an actual desktop has. It may be that the issue is that we no longer have keyboard navigation in the new system. And adding back keyboard/d-pad navigation could work.

It's going to take them time to iterate on the current design and many of these problems may simply go away with the newer mouse-centric UI. 

The current state of the UI isn't good. But it's not the end of the world either. There's a way to transition from what we have now to something usable -- and eventually -- good. Something that doesn't sacrifice their ability to deliver on future updates.

The flaw behind all of this is the 'mouse-centric UI'. We're playing on console for a reason, it's so we don't have to use UI's like this as they are an inconvenience. Far too many options have been sacrificed with this UI change and barely any of it was for the better. Regardless of what they change the fact remains that Console Tenno would rather not have a cursor and prefer to keep what we already have since it works and functions perfectly. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)Dova Seniorious

[seprent]

Steve and co are working on fixing it please be patient tenno 

-Source: steve's twitter 

[(XBOX)xSx Artic xKx]

Is the new cursor thing optional, if so, how do i change it, if not, please make it optional? It makes a game that is heavy on the Grind in game, a grind while navigating/changing gear/upgrading gear/etc. It takes too long to do things that were virtually instant before. i was trying to equip an arcane, I had to click A like 12 times for it to equip. the new GUI actually frustrated me so much that i had to shut the game off, which is funny because the game is historically buggy and I usually work through it. on a separate issue I completed the final mission of the Octavia Quest yesterday but the screen got a little darker and "please wait" popped up. i "waited" for 10 mins and finally forced the game off and restarted it. i had to redo the last mission, annoying. Anyway, i digress, please change it back for console owners. typically an update is to make a game better. if this update had that purpose in mind, id say it failed. Hopefully it goes back, i do enjoy the game overall.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

Just now, (XB1)Dova Seniorious said:

The flaw behind all of this is the 'mouse-centric UI'. We're playing on console for a reason, it's so we don't have to use UI's like this as they are an inconvenience. Far too many options have been sacrificed with this UI change and barely any of it was for the better. Regardless of what they change the fact remains that console Tenno would rather not have a cursor and prefer to keep what we already have since it works and functions perfectly. 

My point is that you already have multiple pointer/mouse-based UIs in the game. And they're good. Consoles can do pointers well. This just isn't it and being against something in the abstract may prevent them from producing something good that is pointer-based. E.g. d-pad maps are pretty awful in any console game I've played.

[(XBOX)Skyvernn]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

My point is that you already have multiple pointer/mouse-based UIs in the game. And they're good. Consoles can do pointers well. This just isn't it and being against something in the abstract may prevent them from producing something good that is pointer-based. E.g. d-pad maps are pretty awful in any console game I've played.

Sure some aspects work with a cursor and that's acceptable, but the attempt of doing it to every aspect of the game is horrible design and most importantly it's a flaw to playing Warframe on console. Why bother giving us this cursor that nobody asked for. It's like vaulting primes we don't want them vaulted. The current situation of this UI issue is that they tried to make the PC version of the game on consoles and to little surprise hardly anyone likes it. 

[(PSN)Hyperwolf82]

Much, if not all of this has been said, but heres a few of my problems with the update.

-The whole thing slows gameplay substantially when navigating menus.

-The lack of hot buttons in the arsenal is frustrating to say the least. It, like much of this update feels like you trying to fix that which is not broken.

-Removing all mods at once with triangle (ps4) may have been there before, but I don't think so. Regardless, it's bad, especially considering you press triangle to remove a single mod, so if you mistakenly aren't hovering over a mod, you drop them all and have to start over. The implementation of drag and drop mods is just a bad fit on console imo, as I find it to be slow and finicky.

-The 'sort' function on mods is way too touchy with the stick/cursor, but using the d pad, while having the potential to be more accurate, is much slower, and will actually let you bring the cursor off of the menu, to the mods, while the menu stays.

-Needing both sticks to navigate things like the foundry is counterintuitive for controller/console users. It makes sense on a mouse, as it has a wheel, but mice are not the norm on console.

-Needing to bring the cursor all the way up and hit 'leave squad' after a mission to keep from slowing others down or being dragged along on another mission is unnecessarily clunky. We used to be able to just push up on the d pad to get to it. Without that, you run a higher risk of mistakes like inviting randos to your orbiter or loading someone's profile, wasting your time.

-Having to click on each individual item in things like the lab, or when looking at relics in order to see their requirements/what's in the relic can lead to comfusion, aside from the fact it's just plain slow.

-When choosing a relic for a void fissure mission, it says 'X equip for mission' while a single push does nothing, and it actually requires a double tap.

 

[(PSN)Arc1723]

Mouse centric UI done well on console: Minecraft

Mouse centric UI done... well, done on console: Warframe

Best part about it in Minecraft is that with the exception of one or two, specific, actions, is that you can do everything else while still ignoring it. tap tap tappity tap.

 

Also, double press is for double jumping on a console. A click is the stick. Do not think we double-click. (in before buts: posting on tablet, no cursor here and it works just fine...)

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)Arc1723

[(PSN)NO1SE_jk]

On 2018-06-05 at 7:49 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey guys, I have here a list of known issues with a couple of notes as well! 

• D-Pad not working on World State Window - will be implemented in a future update!
• Can't rotate items in the Market (fixed)
• D-Pad skipping over items in menu lists - will be fixed in a future update! 
• Scrolling with the D-Pad will be implemented in a future update! 

Thank you for all of your feedback!

Now that we have a cursor and have moved away from button shortcuts having to be coded, any chance of implementing an option to bring up the console keyboard to type in specific numbers when selecting multiples of items (e.g. when selecting multiple of a mod to dissolve into Endo or selecting how much Platinum to put into a trade etc) by clicking on the number like on PC instead of having to use the L1/R1 buttons or bumpers to scroll all the way through to the desired values?

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

I do not know what the majority wants, nor have I claimed that anywhere. That is putting words in my mouth. All I have stated is that those who are arguing with me need better data(poll) to claim the word majority to win any cases against me. That is all I have been saying these past posts. I am not denying anyone the right to not say what they want or anything along those lines like some have claimed. My main point is that if you want to argue against me; you don't use those terms nilly willy because I will not take them seriously.

I would love for DE to come out with an official pole on it to see where everyone stands on the issue. I am genuinely curious on the data myself.

The data doesn't matter though. The interface is unintuitive, slower, and downright frustrating to use.

As for the rest, you don't have a clue about statistics if you think you need to poll everyone before you can predict trends. We know where this trend is going. DE knows where it is going. The only person who doesn't see the trend is you.

[(PSN)an_odd_tree]

Dear DE. Thank you for your wonderful game that i love.

now that i have spent a good 24 hours with your new cursor UI on PS4, i would like to add my feedback on the subject.

pros:

.In game chat is easier to manipulate. i started out on PC, so this is a particular feature that i have missed. i'm glad that it is being implemented.

.I am glad that the D-pad can be used as a means to still scroll through interface option. i know it's still buggy, i'm glad you are trying to give us the option to use it.

cons: *go ahead and pull up a chair for this one*

Using the arsenal, foundry, navigation, matchmaking, and pretty much anything other than the first level of the options menu is buggy and dysfunctional. You are aware of some of these bugs. I find most of the bugs to be hit and miss, so it would be hard to pinpoint them for you exactly. for example,

.i was unable to tab over to my favorited colors in the arsenal appearance area, but the next time i opened the app, i was able to no problem.

.some missions are impossible for me to select the mission node, but my team mates can, no problem. It was literally impossible for me to put up a kuva fortress survival, while i had to put up the index for the squad in a later mission.

.Inviting friends is hit or miss. but mostly miss. i'm not sure if it is the responsiveness of the cursor, or just ..... bugged. sometimes i can't even invite my friends to the squad. this is probably the most frustrating aspect of the bugs and is near game breaking. please look into this immediately.

after adjusting my settings and giving the whole thing a solid 8 hours of gameplay to adjust, i find the whole system makes some things easier and faster to use, but most things much slower. for example,

it's faster and easier to brows through the options and upper menus, but doing anything within the arsenal, foundry, void relic refinement, navigation, ect. is much slower. i think this can be solved by adding back the button commands within these menus. for example in the arsenal, add back the option for us to press x to equip, square to customize, triangle to upgrade ... ect. also, you must double click your warframes and weapons to select them for the mission, which is incredibly hindering in terms of time and fluidity.

the drag and drop method for the mods slows me down, but isn't buggy enough to really complain about.

Overall:

the system is incredibly buggy and borderline unplayable in it's current state. i share many of the frustrations of the community at large. i look forward to fixes and future updates to the system to restore the same fluidity of movement within the interface that we enjoy in the overall game.

sincerely,
an_odd_tree 

[(PSN)Niashi]

At first I was blown away at the very crisp updates to the visuals. Text was easier to read, things were looking nice. But then I started to play with the UI. I tried, I really tried, but it is just so clunky, slow and feels completely unnatural. You can't say that it's a retrain in muscle memory when you go directly against the design of a controller. You are trying to turn a controller in to a mouse, and it just doesn't work that way. Console players are console players for a reason. I want to sit on my couch and relax and use my controller to fluidly operate a video game. If I wanted to have a mouse and keyboard in front of me at all times, then I would be on a PC. I don't care if I can up the speed of the cursor. That doesn't fix every other problem with the new UI. Drag and drop should never exist on consoles. It works fine on PCs, but that's not the way a controller design works. That needs to go away. Hot keys need to come back. I don't want to double tap X anytime I want to select anything. I don't want to confirm, confirm again and reconfirm. I tried to do a trade and we both opted to back out and say forget it because it was too obnoxious and time consuming to have to highlight, select, confirm select, scroll to next box and repeat a multi step process for something that used to be select and done. Everything just takes too much time and overly complicates something that used to be so simple.

I understand that it's the first step in a grander scheme, but it should never have been released on consoles without the full package for testing. I understand you need feedback, but this update has cost you a large portion of your console players. Between my husband and myself, we have dropped over $500 in to this game since we started playing last October. We are MR24 and MR25, so we have played this game very heavily. I don't choose my words lightly when I say you have lost us as paying customers, and as players in general.  And should we ever return, it won't be as players ready to give monetary support. You have lost our trust, and you have lost our loyalty with this update. PC players were telling you from the very beginning that this was a bad idea, but you ignored that feedback and forced it on us console players without a choice of turning it off and claim that you can't roll it back either. You have effectively ruined the game for most of us. I don't feel as if this is a dramatic and overreacted statement either. This is not a knee jerk response.

I love Warframe. I can not remember the last time I have played a game that I enjoyed so much that it kept me around for more than a few months. I was happy to contribute and support this game and told all my friends about it. If this UI change had not taken place, I would have been around for years to come. But it seems DE and console players are at a crossroad right now and your actions will highly impact what happens to your game. If you want to have one single UI for your PC and console players, then that's your choice as developers. But it's painstakingly clear that is not what your players want. You have to ask yourself where you want this game to go, and what you want it to be, then you have to look to your players and ask them those same questions and hopefully find a happy medium. And if your choices drive off a large portion of your player base, that should tell you something. I will watch for updates and monitor what happens, and should the game become fluid again I will try it out. I want this game to thrive, and I would hate for this of all things to be the beginning of the end.

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

The data doesn't matter though. The interface is unintuitive, slower, and downright frustrating to use.

As for the rest, you don't have a clue about statistics if you think you need to poll everyone before you can predict trends. We know where this trend is going. DE knows where it is going. The only person who doesn't see the trend is you.

Data always matters. Just because you disagree with that claim is irrelevant. If data didn't matter, nothing would ever get accomplished.

I know plenty about statistics and how people think the ones that scream loudest are always right. That is the farthest truth from reality as can be because more often times than not they are wrong or lack the data to properly see the whole issue. I am done with this conversation though with you. I do thank you for having it with me, but we are getting nowhere and just going in circles. I am ending it here. Ty again. /bow

[(PSN)kickingthedog]

Seriously, who thought bringing this to consoles was a good idea? What's next, making everything so that it works with drumsets. People have different input devices. Some work with cursors, others don't. Controllers are NOT part of the first group. In case you haven't noticed - most console users have CONTROLLERS. Even if there is mouse support, most people DON'T have more than two arms, and controllers are take both. The old interface was fine, it could have used some optimisations here and there, but those were...would have been to make things faster. This does the exact opposite. Controllers have a lot of buttons. Mice don't. Trying to make one perform like the other won't work. 

Also, trying to use a wirless mouse on PS4 is torture. Put in dongle...remove controller, lube fingers, maybe remove dongle, if lucky.

 Isn't it enough that we get shafted on updates and get no plat discounts, that now you have to inconveniance us further? 

In case you ran out of ideas on what to implement in these hotfixes here's a few, for free:

-Make [Rumbled] useable in PvE(Scale Health and Damage with Strenght, Attack Range with Range, the usual stuff.)

-Give us the Nox Gun. And other heavy weapons(Hint:Ghouls have some cool looking stuff).

-Make alt fire toggleable.

-Remove charged fire mode from Ogris and similar guns. Makes sense with Bows, balances Lanka and Opticor, ruins launchers.

-Bring Ghouls out of PoE. Seriously, those things would be far more threatening in closed spaces.

-Improve on PoE flight controls, especially the tendency to hover next to the ground. Stay in the air please.

-Make PvP more appealing.

-Work on adding an actual endgame.

-FIX THE UI!!!

-DON'T BREAK IT AGAIN!!!

 

P.S. Seriously? UI? Don't you guys have a priority list? Because UI changes, no all unneccesary changes should be placed solidly BEHIND stuff like Content, Enemies, Events, Loot, Mechanics, Music, Art, Playing with cats, Looking at memes, Looking at memes about playing with cats and Smoke breaks. Yesterday I'd be playing Warframe around this time, now I have to play internet warrior because I can barely get WF to work. I'd honestly preffer the former.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)kickingthedog
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