Stealth

[MasaJin]

With a tag of "ninjas play free" we are as stealthy as Raiden from metal gear revengenace murdering everything with little trouble even in missions that you would think would be better for stealth.

Spy missions) walk in nuke the room now just avoid lasers

Rescue) go in nuke the room or just run in murdering all the wardens you get points for it regardless if u do it quietly or not and after you do that the rescue target can't hide in cover and stay out of sight so why bother

Assassinate) sure not all bosses can be easily dealt with but wouldn't you not want them to know your on the way? Get the drop on em ya know maybe you get a battle advantage

Don't get me wrong i love being the mass murdering monsters the tenno are but when i first started the game i played stealthy. I didn't like the idea of public so i played mostly solo and thought being quiet gave you better xp or added something to my over all experience. (besides stealth kill multipliers) once i tried pub and figured out heck just kill everything makes the missions faster more xp and nothing can stop you alarms mean nothing, bersa on the the way? Dead. Prosecutor you say? Another dead. Grineer.

Now thousands of hours later i miss stealth kinda wish it had a bigger part in this game as i thought back in the day. Wouldn't that be awesome muli stealthkills on mobs close enough, being able to hide and lower mobs alert, all new rooms and movement for sleathing around cool parkour challenges some like prince of Persia, death from above it all would just make this game all the more satisfying and challenging 

Edited June 22, 2018 by MasaJin

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Warframe gameplay is running to the extraction while someone else backhandedly completes the mission before you have even a chance to participate. Sorry, what stealth?

[(PSN)Radehx]

Stealth scales infinitely...nuking doesn't make it past mid levels.

[MasaJin]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Warframe gameplay is running to the extraction while someone else backhandedly completes the mission before you have even a chance to participate. Sorry, what stealth?

Thats what i mean where i could enjoy a mission being a cheeky ninja planing my enter and exit of a room that had challenge and was fun but we seem to being moving towards more nuke cus we can game play. which is simple and can be fun too but adds no ninja gameplay to our space ninjas

[AperoBeltaTwo]

56 minutes ago, MasaJin said:

Thats what i mean where i could enjoy a mission being a cheeky ninja planing my enter and exit of a room that had challenge and was fun but we seem to being moving towards more nuke cus we can game play. which is simple and can be fun too but adds no ninja gameplay to our space ninjas

 It could be done, maybe, if DE add a "sneak" stat to the game, like in Skyrim; and change the way alarms work and enemies react to detecting tenno. But then again, missions don't really require this; and DE on multiple occasions demonstrated their distaste to stealth exp farming (for whatever reason), so there's no incentive to play like that much, meaning that there's no incentive for Devs to invest into developing stealth past the silly caricature we have right now.
 I wouldn't mind a general mission overhaul, cause objectives right now in the game are just stupid and offer almost no gameplay at all, and stealth doesn't make sense in this context; but then again, nobody cares what I want. Especially DE.

Edited June 22, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[MasaJin]

9 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 It could be done, maybe, if DE add a "sneak" stat to the game, like in Skyrim; and change the way alarms work and enemies react to detecting tenno. But then again, missions don't really require this; and DE on multiple occasions demonstrated their distaste to stealth exp farming (for whatever reason), so there's no incentive to play like that much, meaning that there's no incentive for Devs to invest into developing stealth past the silly caricature we have right now.
 I wouldn't mind a general mission overhaul, cause objectives right now in the game are just stupid and offer almost no gameplay at all, and stealth doesn't make sense in this context; but then again, nobody cares what I want. Especially DE.

Sadly i know how you feel i just thought a game that advertises ninjas would use some kind of ninja like elements

[Canach]

I stealth when I solo - any mission which allows it. The game allows for stealth, but does not require stealth.

I agree with the frustration of the OP - I hate the race to the end mentality which really detracts from enjoyment of the game - immersiveness is lost, intensity is gone. 

I don't know how DE could change the game to make players want to slow down - they've added medallion/fragments/soma chords/cat statues to look for, but people find those things faster than I can imagine possible. I can't think of any change that could help, nor would I want to force any change on the majority playstyle.

For me, the answer is solo play - even with a just a single partner I always feel like I'm in a race.

[MasaJin]

33 minutes ago, Canach said:

I stealth when I solo - any mission which allows it. The game allows for stealth, but does not require stealth.

I agree with the frustration of the OP - I hate the race to the end mentality which really detracts from enjoyment of the game - immersiveness is lost, intensity is gone. 

I don't know how DE could change the game to make players want to slow down - they've added medallion/fragments/soma chords/cat statues to look for, but people find those things faster than I can imagine possible. I can't think of any change that could help, nor would I want to force any change on the majority playstyle.

For me, the answer is solo play - even with a just a single partner I always feel like I'm in a race.

Me and a friend use to do co-op stealth moving from cover to cover calling out enemy locations but thats when a.i. was kinda dumb and blind

[(XBOX)Kuljack]

You could just look for players that share your interest in a stealth playstyle. It is actually very easy to play the game in stealth solo. Grab a bow, walk slow and take every corner with caution.

With a team you could coordinate your actions, actually communicate the objective and Roleplay the mission as if it was actually more than just completing objective A and moving to the green spot on the map.

 

"Target in sight" "Roger than Tenno, shot is lined up." "Silencer engaged?" "Silencer engaged. Taking the Shot." "That's a confirmed kill, let's extract tenno. Successful stealthing." ....

LeeroyJenkins_Reborn_Again joing your squad.

"Uh, did you leave it on public again." "I can neither confirm nor deny..."

 *Alarms go off*

"Leeeeeerrrooooooyyyyyyy Jeenennnnnnnkins!"

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

heh when I first started I too played solo and stealth.

• The AI makes it hard since they see you through walls regardless (including if invisible)
• The farming requirements and low drop chances makes it unrewarding
• Mass murdering teammates makes it impossible

There really is no place for stealth in the game.  As far as nuking not scaling past "mid-levels" - you can pretty well nuke well past level 200 - and if in a pre-made team, non-stealth (perhaps not "nuke") can scale pretty much infinitely as well.

 

[Gandergear]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

Stealth scales infinitely...nuking doesn't make it past mid levels.

Equinox says differently

[MasaJin]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)Kuljack said:

You could just look for players that share your interest in a stealth playstyle. It is actually very easy to play the game in stealth solo. Grab a bow, walk slow and take every corner with caution.

With a team you could coordinate your actions, actually communicate the objective and Roleplay the mission as if it was actually more than just completing objective A and moving to the green spot on the map.

 

"Target in sight" "Roger than Tenno, shot is lined up." "Silencer engaged?" "Silencer engaged. Taking the Shot." "That's a confirmed kill, let's extract tenno. Successful stealthing." ....

LeeroyJenkins_Reborn_Again joing your squad.

"Uh, did you leave it on public again." "I can neither confirm nor deny..."

 *Alarms go off*

"Leeeeeerrrooooooyyyyyyy Jeenennnnnnnkins!"

You sir have made my day

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

How about another kind of stealth? We keep expecting to stealth past numerous enemy and dispatch them, but I'd rather try the approach of avoiding something like the Alien from Alien: Isolation...where we are trying to avoid a Orokin monster like the Golden Maw or a impossible Juggernaut behemoth that run us down. The normal mob means nothing to us, but a singular threat is searching for us in the tile sets where we need to avoid it might be a ton of scares and fun, while not losing the flow of our mobility. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[MasaJin]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

How about another kind of stealth? We keep expecting to stealth past numerous enemy and dispatch them, but I'd rather try the approach of avoiding something like the Alien from Alien: Isolation...where we are trying to avoid a Orokin monster like the Golden Maw or a impossible Juggernaut behemoth that run us down. The normal mob means nothing to us, but a singular threat is searching for us in the tile sets where we need to avoid it might be a ton of scares and fun, while not losing the flow of our mobility. 

Could be like a alarm based mob something that would come looking for us but we can lose it if we keep the alarm off, being quick on our feet, and keep enemies unalerted it could be a huge bullet sponge to keep people from just murdering it

[GeoffFromAccounting]

The problem here is that Warframe isn't really great at being a stealth game. It has the bare basic requirements of one, but nothing more. Compare Warframe's stealth to that of Splinter Cell, Metal Gear Solid, Mark of the Ninja, hell even Crysis or Horizon Zero Dawn at times. The first thing you'd notice is that all of those games are really, really slow paced (except Crysis/Horizon Zero Dawn, they're more medium), which works really great for those games, as it emphasises your need to think and plan your approach to problems. Now contrast that to Warframe, which is known for its fast paced combat against hordes of enemies. That's not even going into the other issues Warframe stealth has, such as enemy AI, and a lack of alert timers, alternate pathways, relocating bodies, etc. Stealth in Warframe is effectively just pick Ivara/Loki/Ash, and stay invisible.

In order for Warframe to become even semi-decent at Stealth, the AI would need a complete redo, a lot of tiles would have to be modified to allow alternate, more hidden ways to move through them, and you'd have to add a way to dispose of corpses. Then there's the issue that none of these changes would affect mainstream horde-slaying gameplay, because enemies would die too quickly for the AI to be noticed, very few people would utilise the alternate passages as they'd often be slower, and why bother with hiding corpses if you're just mass murdering everyone anyway?

Personally, as harsh as it sounds, I'd rather DE not emphasise stealth, because the game isn't built for it and trying to do it now would require a lot of retooling just to make a square peg fit in a round hole. Instead focus on the strengths of the game: powerful space warriors capable of nigh genocide through fantastical abilities. Stealth and horde shooter are just too opposed to be in the same room together in my opinion, as they require almost complete opposite philosophies and approaches to build.

[(PSN)Radehx]

2 hours ago, Gandergear said:

Equinox says differently

You need to kill first before you're able to nuke stuff with Equinox. It's not a "click this button and nuke everything" ability...you have to work for it. The bottleneck isn't his 4, it's the ability to charge it effectively which relies on more than just his ability alone.

[MasaJin]

9 hours ago, GeoffFromAccounting said:

The problem here is that Warframe isn't really great at being a stealth game. It has the bare basic requirements of one, but nothing more. Compare Warframe's stealth to that of Splinter Cell, Metal Gear Solid, Mark of the Ninja, hell even Crysis or Horizon Zero Dawn at times. The first thing you'd notice is that all of those games are really, really slow paced (except Crysis/Horizon Zero Dawn, they're more medium), which works really great for those games, as it emphasises your need to think and plan your approach to problems. Now contrast that to Warframe, which is known for its fast paced combat against hordes of enemies. That's not even going into the other issues Warframe stealth has, such as enemy AI, and a lack of alert timers, alternate pathways, relocating bodies, etc. Stealth in Warframe is effectively just pick Ivara/Loki/Ash, and stay invisible.

In order for Warframe to become even semi-decent at Stealth, the AI would need a complete redo, a lot of tiles would have to be modified to allow alternate, more hidden ways to move through them, and you'd have to add a way to dispose of corpses. Then there's the issue that none of these changes would affect mainstream horde-slaying gameplay, because enemies would die too quickly for the AI to be noticed, very few people would utilise the alternate passages as they'd often be slower, and why bother with hiding corpses if you're just mass murdering everyone anyway?

Personally, as harsh as it sounds, I'd rather DE not emphasise stealth, because the game isn't built for it and trying to do it now would require a lot of retooling just to make a square peg fit in a round hole. Instead focus on the strengths of the game: powerful space warriors capable of nigh genocide through fantastical abilities. Stealth and horde shooter are just too opposed to be in the same room together in my opinion, as they require almost complete opposite philosophies and approaches to build.

 

Yeah i know but small changes could go a long way for example

1) an ai alert timer so they dont just stay semi alert for almost ever 

2) have the ai look around moving when alert instead of aimlessly looking around

3)a sight arrow to tell you if ur being seen and mobs alert is growing (toggle on or off in option cus i bet some people dont want that)

Sadly the body issue idk how to deal with i use to just channel finisher to just have their bodies fade away

[PrimeCypher]

The main problem with stealth in this game is that its not really rewarding. In games that focus on stealth, there's usually not even a requirement to kill foes, so the option is on par with the other methods. However, in Warframe, if you want resources, or credits, or more xp, then you have to be killing enemies quickly. This really doesn't encourage stealth unless you have Ivara's pickpocket, which is somewhat limiting to the other stealth frames. 

What they need is a incentive for players to be stealthy on some of the missions, besides the xp increase. maybe an increased chance of enemies dropping rare material/mods on sneak kills?

[Iccotak]

This would also require some redesigning of older tile sets.
Kuva Fortress has more avenues and is designed around updated movement, giving the players multiple avenues to traverse the map.
The older maps don't leave much room in that department 

[Dark_RRiderr]

Dont even ask for a more challanging way of tactical thinking, stealth, or enemys beeing more complicated to take down.

All we get now is the direction of Call of Duty Sanctuary Onslaught where you dont need a brain and just kill around for half an hour or longer (if people wouldnt already get bored and leave after wave #*!%ing 3 already often, rendering this mode just not fun at all)

I liked what DE did with the Sacrafice mission, story wise still a very good game.

Just gameplay wise? ..... its heading for the wrong direction with modes like Sanctuary Onslaught, that mode was disappointing. And if more modes like this come out instead of something better then just and only killing around pointlessly, i think i will only log in for the rewards and sometimes play a few rounds then leave again.

Hope venus offers more of a challange in some missions there.

Im not even writing any of my ideas down anymore, werent special anyways and just short ideas i had, plus noone cares at all so why bother?

Will also reduce my posts in the forum by a lot, maybe close to 0, pretty sure thats appriciated by everyone. Maybe see you guys around in a round in warframe (or maybe not i play solo from now on)

To others that still got hope they finally add more stealth or tactical missions then killing around missions, hope you dont get disappointed, i for my part dont expect to much lately

[AperoBeltaTwo]

18 hours ago, MasaJin said:

Sadly i know how you feel i just thought a game that advertises ninjas would use some kind of ninja like elements

Warframe advertises a lot of things.

[Klokwerkaos]

OP, stealth missions are designed for newbies plodding around the star chart to keep them from getting all the goodies too quick and forcing them to think about missions differently.

Once you have god tier builds with max rivens and arcanes and all the loot in the world, nothing is a challenge, including spy missions (you can actually negate lasers and locks too, except in sortie for locks).

Ultimately if you want to go back to "simpler times" you still have the option... you can always decrease the power of your load out... nobody is forcing you to play the most meta frames that nuke the galaxy when you press 4.

Grab yourself an unforma'd excal and a mk 1 braton and skana and go to town with some unlevelled mods if that's what you want, but you can't exactly force stealth to be more important at endgame levels because of the power level.

It's already obnoxious enough that you can fail a regular spy mission 99 times in a row in a pug because of a random dunce, making it harder is just asking for that to be worse, or forcing players to play specific frames (like ivara and loki) in order to avoid all detection and such, which would just be super obnoxious when one of your team mates cues with frost so they can leech and then is spotted.

If you want to play weaker, go for it, but you can't take the power level back.  Stealth is no longer relevant past completing the star chart except at the sortie level sometimes.  This is just the way the game is.