Railjack: An Ergonomic Suggestion

[Mikhael222]

This was my first Tennocon after playing Warframe for over a year, and I was amazed during Tenno Live - you guys are doing really great work!  We even ogled through the 32 minute gameplay demo a second time when we got home.  I'm excited for everything that has been shown and am looking forward to the release date.

That being said, I do have a suggestion for the Railjack game mode you are working on.  Before making it final, there is one thing you might consider to make the gameplay a bit more ergonomic.  Without even playing it yet, I noticed that the constant running back and forth between the front guns and the ship's control panel might prove to be wearing.

 

Therefore, I suggest that the control panel can additionally (but not solely) be accessed while controlling the front guns by using a button that is not needed during that mode.  For example, the roll button (shift on PC) could pop up the control panel and then disappear upon releasing the button.  As a result, the need to keep interrupting one task for the other would be reduced (Pardon the rough image edit).

Edited July 10, 2018 by Mikhael222

[AXCrusnik]

I think they only had 3 people for this raid right? So if they had a fourth they could cover engineering + onboard combat and repairs.

[Mikhael222]

1 minute ago, AXCrusnik said:

I think they only had 3 people for this raid right? So if they had a fourth they could cover engineering + onboard combat and repairs.

Yes that is true, but a full, organized, and experienced squad isn't always guaranteed.  Sometimes, there are cases in which one experienced player might need to take a newer player without randoms to show him one on one.

[Insizer]

yeah this was one issue that i floored me during the reveal.

[AXCrusnik]

6 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

Yes that is true, but a full, organized, and experienced squad isn't always guaranteed.  Sometimes, there are cases in which one experienced player might need to take a newer player without randoms to show him one on one.

While also true, this would essentially eliminate the need for that console all together and lose some of the feel of this being a ship that really needs a crew to be efficiently used IMO. It's meant to be group content so if you really needed to show someone the ropes it's possible to get a couple friends or clanmates to help show them how it's done with a full group instead of teaching them with less people which could actually be harder.

Edited July 10, 2018 by AXCrusnik

[Mikhael222]

1 minute ago, AXCrusnik said:

While also true, this would essentially eliminate the need for that console all together and lose some of the feel of this being a ship that really needs a crew to be efficiently used IMO.

Yes I agree.  What if the quick access to the control panel was disabled on any squads with three or more players?  It could be programmed so that only small squads would have access to the shortcut, while full squads would be encouraged to work more as a team with specific roles.

[Mikhael222]

4 minutes ago, AXCrusnik said:

While also true, this would essentially eliminate the need for that console all together and lose some of the feel of this being a ship that really needs a crew to be efficiently used IMO.

it just seems like you could die more easily if you were in a squad of two and had to keep running back and forth.

[LSG501]

I was thinking it's not very efficient design to have to leave the 'pilot seat' to do the main gun (which is ANOTHER location) or the 'control centre' in the middle...  not only does it leave the ship without a pilot with enemies firing at it, it's going to get annoying if the battle is 'heavy' and you need to keep going back and forth....

Then I was like, this is going to need voice coms to work efficiently and I don't want to use voice coms because I normally play late at night and don't want to wake people up....

Actually thinking about the stream, it looked like the only reason we really needed the new ship was to fire the laser at the end to blow up the corpus ship and to 'unlock' stuff in the enemy ship... we need to transition to archwing to get onboard the corpus ship so why can't we just 'stealthily' attack the ship via archwing to get onboard...

[Koldraxon-732]

While your idea may have merit if the Railship wasn't as big as it is and was more designed for single-user control, Railjack as a mode is more intended for teamwork. I suggest you get your Clan and frequent Tenno friends prepared by going over who does what and what happens when X happens.

Example:

Spoiler

If I was to board an enemy ship and had 3 others on mine, they'd split up so one takes the helm and keeps the ship moving, another handles interior hacking, and the 3rd hops from turret to turret to keep the enemies off until I complete my task. Only when I've left the enemy ship and gotten back would everyone change seats so two would be on turrets, 3rd would set power to weapons and finish off the enemy ship before I take helm and pull us out, which would be when the 3rd member would exit that heavy gun port to reset power to balanced before doing a casual roam of the ship, then coming back. If the scene is clear, all crew would be likely discussing how to fit themselves for the next mission after voting on our next destination.

 

[Koldraxon-732]

2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

[Separate seats deemed impractical]
[Stealth attack by Archwing]

Solution if DE changes nothing: Put the ship out of enemy line of fire, and/or make sure you bring a friend (or three) to keep the ship safe while you're out.
If solo: Put ship behind asteroids. Deploy Archwing. Slip inside, maybe use the Landing Craft security jammer feature from the Liset, then knock out the defenses and mark the target before getting out and then sniping the ship from your hidden section.

I wonder if the Railship variants (besides the Sigma Interceptor, which probably will have a few staple abilities - one of which (Helix missiles) was demonstrated on-stream which basically says the Sigma Interceptor is the Odonata of the Railships, meaning, perhaps, there's a Prime variant) will feature other, diverse abilities (perhaps there's ones that mimic Ash or Rhino functionally; going invisible then marking targets which are then hit by a virus which turns off life support and opens the hatch, effectively killing the fighters - a silent variation of bladestorm, really; then with Rhino, an 'invert shield polarity' where, for a time, damage adds overshields and another ability allowing the ship to project a temporally destabilizing seismic wave which acts as a Rhino Stomp, but in space - a pair of features you'd expect on a Tenno dreadnought manned by an old 8-Tenno raid party).

[DrBorris]

Rather than streamline everything to the lowest common denominator (not used in offense), why not just have different "Railjacks" for different purposes? So have a Railjack built around solo, one around duo, one around squad, and maybe even one around an 8-Tenno team.

 

Warframe needs less one-size-fits-all content, not more.

[Urlan]

3 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Rather than streamline everything to the lowest common denominator (not used in offense), why not just have different "Railjacks" for different purposes? So have a Railjack built around solo, one around duo, one around squad, and maybe even one around an 8-Tenno team.

 

Warframe needs less one-size-fits-all content, not more.

Personally I don't understand how that phrase can be used as anything but an offense but perhaps different world-views. I can understand @Mikhael222 though, its more a cleaning up of mechanics. Now, if the mode is not intended for solo, or small teams, that is of course another issue entirely; as it makes sense to not have every player be involved with each role. But DE Steve was saying each player would be involved with charging and firing the cannon, and needless busywork pulls players out if they are all having to switch terminals and run around without purpose. I could see something like this going up-to full teams or more, but I don't see the reason for more required teams when Trials were such a flop for requiring such a mess for little pay-off aside sitting on buttons.

[Mikhael222]

12 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Warframe needs less one-size-fits-all content, not more.

Yeah.  I said as much in my second reply to AXCrusnik.

[peterc3]

They are hoping to have it be playable single-player. 

Those two stations are clearly supposed to be manned by 2 different people. Not like the drop down to the main weapon.

[DrBorris]

22 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

Yeah.  I said as much in my second reply to AXCrusnik.

Ehhhh, here is the problem from my point of view.

 

It is extremely difficult if not straight up impossible to design a single "thing" that is compelling for a variety of squad sizes. If you want to make on thing fit multiple groups you will have to make sacrifices in some direction. Either you have a S#&$ty solo and good co-op, good solo and a S#&$ty co-op, or both are just meh (this is where a lot of Warframe content lands). Just being able to turn panels off to consolidate would mean sacrificing and cutting corners on the vision for the mode.

 

Which is why I suggest designing different ships, from the ground up, to fit different roles. That way you can make it so it is a compelling experience for everyone. The smaller, faster, and more stealthy solo ship may be used in a different context than an 8-man behemoth. Both are designed to be a fun experience without making sacrifices for the sake of homogony. Maybe there are some things one ship that another cannot, GOOD. Give a reason for segments of the player-base to exist rather than just be one pile.

Also, don't mistake that running back and forth as not being very intentional. It seems clear to me DE does not want you to sit in your turret or whatever, they want you running around the ship and engaging in everything.

 

[DE]Steve seems to have made it pretty clear by his post-Tennocon communications with the press/Twitter that he does not want Railjack to be a one-off mode, he seems to be looking at it as the glue to tie all of Warframe's mismatched "modes" together into one cohesive unit. For it to do that to success grouping