Is Shadow Stalker an umbra?

[LAWD]

There has been some theories on this topic that i won't be diving into, i just have a question for ya'll;

Excalibur Umbra can reset the built resistances on Sentients, while Shadow Stalker can nullify Warframe abilities, so is Stalker an umbra variant that is built to hunt down Tenno/warframes just as with Excal Umbra for the sentients?

 

[EDM774]

Well he does use the umbra model just minus the crescents and the scarf...

[BloodForCavalero]

9 minutes ago, LAWD said:

There has been some theories on this topic that i won't be diving into, i just have a question for ya'll;

Excalibur Umbra can reset the built resistances on Sentients, while Shadow Stalker can nullify Warframe abilities, so is Stalker an umbra variant that is built to hunt down Tenno/warframes just as with Excal Umbra for the sentients?

 

He received his powers from Hunhow. Excalibur Umbra, is the first and only Umbra.

5 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

Well he does use the umbra model just minus the crescents and the scarf...

He's an Excalibur with a different helmet.

[EDM774]

9 minutes ago, GrazewoundZeroLow said:

He's an Excalibur with a different helmet.

Look closely at his body model it's not that of regular excal. it's the umbra body. your statement is only true for the old stalker, the new one is an umbra with the stalker helmet.

also the wiki backs this up as well: " The Shadow Stalker uses a unique variant of the Excalibur Umbra body, missing the prominent crescent-shape adornments on forearms and hips, whereas the loincloth pieces are swapped with ones styled after the Pakal syandana. "

Edited August 3, 2018 by EDM774

[Almagnus1]

15 minutes ago, GrazewoundZeroLow said:

He received his powers from Hunhow. Excalibur Umbra, is the first and only Umbra.

You mean only one we know about?

[BloodForCavalero]

11 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

Look closely at his body model it's not that of regular excal. it's the umbra body. your statement is only true for the old stalker, the new one is an umbra with the stalker helmet.

also the wiki backs this up as well: " The Shadow Stalker uses a unique variant of the Excalibur Umbra body, missing the prominent crescent-shape adornments on forearms and hips, whereas the loincloth pieces are swapped with ones styled after the Pakal syandana. "

Sec, I'm red-color blind ...

*elevator music*

Ah, I see. A wiki update after, The Sacrifice. That begs the question, who controlled him before Hunhow? Was it, Ballas? Did he create him after Margulis was executed? Now, I want to see what his role is in the upcoming war ...

Damn you 😁

 

8 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

You mean only one we know about?

Hush you 😅

[EDM774]

1 minute ago, GrazewoundZeroLow said:

Damn you 😁

You're welcome 😛

[unknown418]

34 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

Well he does use the umbra model just minus the crescents and the scarf...

Using the same model ≠ to being the same in the lore/story

3 minutes ago, GrazewoundZeroLow said:

Sec, I'm red-color blind ...

*elevator music*

Ah, I see. A wiki update after, The Sacrifice. That begs the question, who controlled him before Hunhow? Was it, Ballas? Did he create him after Margulis was executed? Now, I want to see what his role is in the upcoming war ...

Damn you 😁

 

Hush you 😅

The Stalker got the same body model as Excalibur Umbra back in 2015(Update 18)

[Dhrekr]

8 minutes ago, GrazewoundZeroLow said:

That begs the question, who controlled him before Hunhow? Was it, Ballas? Did he create him after Margulis was executed?

Why do we have to go through this again?

His codex clearly states he was a Lower Guard. That's basically like saying a Dex soldier.

 

 

Also, he's not an Umbra - he can do things that not even Umbra can do, such as remember his life (Umbra can only remember one event, and only because Ballas made him), speak (Umbra can growl, but not speak) and so on. He's a former Orokin soldier. His suit is probably just a less invasive form of Technocyte.

[EDM774]

8 minutes ago, unknown418 said:

Using the same model ≠ to being the same in the lore/story

I never stated he was the same as umbra. He is too self aware even for an umbra.

[unknown418]

4 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

I never stated he was the same as umbra. He is too self aware even for an umbra.

When someone asks if the Stalker is an umbra and then you say "Well he does use the umbra model" that kinda makes it seem like you were saying that they are more or less the same. Does it not?

[BloodForCavalero]

53 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Why do we have to go through this again?

His codex clearly states he was a Lower Guard. That's basically like saying a Dex soldier.

 

 

Also, he's not an Umbra - he can do things that not even Umbra can do, such as remember his life (Umbra can only remember one event, and only because Ballas made him), speak (Umbra can growl, but not speak) and so on. He's a former Orokin soldier. His suit is probably just a less invasive form of Technocyte.

It's speculated, not certain.

" It was originally speculated that the Stalker could be a Tenno, however it is unknown if its true.

• It is possible that the Stalker was a servant of the Orokin Empire, since in his Codex entry he describes himself as hearing the Naga Drums that announced the end of the Old War "from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians". It is unknown if these Guardians were Dax soldiers or another warrior caste of the Empire.
• During The Second Dream Quest, the Lotus says that the "truth" of the Tenno Reservoir "drove the Stalker to madness".
• During The Second Dream, Hunhow rhetorically asks the Stalker "Who destroyed the Orokin, your way of life?" further suggesting that he might have been aligned with the Orokin or perhaps one of the Orokin himself.
• It is possible that the Stalker himself is confused about or does not remember his true nature and origins. This is hinted at by this line spoken by Hunhow during The Second Dream Quest: "You're asking yourself... Was I one of these wretched things? You know the answer. You still hate them... you still hate... yourself."

[derLoko2]

Umbra is the latin for "shadow", so that's another connection.

I was under the impression that ALL warframes created by the orokin were "umbras", more or less. Fragments of the personality and memories would always remain in the warframe, sometimes causing the warframe to act on its own or become self-aware to some degree. 

[DatLoon]

18 минут назад, derLoko2 сказал:

Umbra is the latin for "shadow", so that's another connection.

I was under the impression that ALL warframes created by the orokin were "umbras", more or less. Fragments of the personality and memories would always remain in the warframe, sometimes causing the warframe to act on its own or become self-aware to some degree. 

Yes, it's true. They could be named differently but first party of warframes were like Umbra, they were self-aware on some degree. Primes are already way more heavily controlled and adjusted versions, however, made same way Umbras were, and connected to Tenno.

Last words of Ballas during memory acceptance scene say everything. Warframes are alive, whatever anyone says. We are their "missing half", taken from them after Helminth manipulations, we help them to live and find meaning in life again. Although, Orokin were ashamed of their fail and most likely supressed Warframes' memories to the degree they need something extra special "to wake up". I hope that deeper digging in the past of Sentients will help us to do that. I was sincerely touched by Umbra's story and honestly wish he could be sort of companion messing around on orbiter when selected. Because he is. Because our warframes are our partners, not just shelves we "wear". I think that Sacrifice delivered that message pretty clear.

P.S. It's also why Warframe's article on wiki annoys me, it reflects pre-War Within opinion of major public. We're in new era now. I wish somebody could fix it properly... I don't think that my english level is enough for that though.

Edited August 3, 2018 by ThousandLights
typos

[(XBOX)SilverSurferGuy]

He’s not a Tenno, he’s on the same boat as umbra regarding his sentience. The stalker was also a person before he became what he is now. i think he willingly became a frame to exact revenge on the Tenno and over time he lost his memory as person and only knows them as the ones who destroyed the orokin. Umbra and stalker also share similar appearances; the pieces on his thighs, chest, back, and the pieces of cloth that hangs below the waist. I think he’s an Umbra-class frame

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Until DE decides to shed light on this we can only speculate what he really is.

[Loza03]

Nobody is certain. I believe there is some kind of connection - Umbra/Shadow, same model (helmet nonwithstanding), the fact they're both rouge Warframes to some degree,they have both made prominent roles in the main story - indeed, Stalker gained the same model as Umbra in his major appearance - and they both try to strangle us. It makes sense story-wise for there to be a connection. It's bookends this trilogy - which seems to be a sort of 'coming of age' trilogy. Especially if you consider this - if Stalker is a Dax connected to Umbra - possibly another son or one of Isaah's sons (grandson), then the Dax, our predecessors, made prominent roles in every single cinematic quest. As a more powerful force, then as an equal, then as passing on the torch.

Thematically, it works.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, ChaosSabre said:

How ironic would it be to turn out Stalker is just Isaah and you'd have to face against him in one on one battle with Excal Umbra in a later quest line.

Frankly, given that the Orokin mess with life and death all the time already, that wouldn't surprise me. The sort of sadistic thing Ballas would do. Plus, Isaah IS clearly a low-rank Dax, you can tell by the relatively inornate helmet he wears, compared to Teshin and Umbra.

Basically the order of events would then be: 

Umbra kills, or at least mortally wounds, Isaah.

Ballas prevents Isaah from properly dying with Orokin macguffinry and infested him, or possibly had it so Umbra somehow infected Isaah with the Helminth. Either way Isaah get's infected and turns into something similar to his father, but not quite identical (this explains the lack of prime parts and the different cloth).

Stalker is manipulated by Ballas into standing guard during the final Tenno Absolution Ceremony. Unaware of Ballas's plot, when the Naga Drum sounds and the Tenno attack the seven and the other Orokin (minus Ballas), Stalker is helpless to watch. This, along with a hatred of Warframes from Umbra attacking him (The infestation having messed with his brain), leads him to swear vengeance on all Tenno. All according to plan.

Ballas goes into hiding, the Tenno sleep, so on and so forth.

Cue the events up until the quest 'Natah'. Ballas puts his and 'Mother's plan into motion. He anonymously tips off Stalker about Hunhow, and informs Hunhow of what to do, which leads into the Second Dream.

[Cloudyvisage]

In the Second Dream Stalker points quite heavily towards two theories, that he has lost his memories, or that he is a Tenno.

In the scene where both the operator and Stalker consider the implications that they are just children possessing golem bodies Stalker halts his hate because he is worried about the implications, this leans more heavily on the loss of memory side of things.

Considering how most Tenno came back after the long night (Missing memories) Stalker could very well be a Tenno especially given that his presence with the low guardians does not necessarily guarantee his being one, especially if he was a Tenno with a preference towards the Orokin, its not as though Lotus would have really mentioned this to us, we know her at this point to miss things (Rell) on top of being somewhat manipulative.

From the interaction at the Second Dream we know Stalker is at the very least missing some of his memories associated with his origin, such that the knowledge his targets, that are the same as him, were actually children all along caused him to consider what he was.

And per Hunhow's statement we can pretty easily rule out him just being shocked he's been hunting kids and is now in a moral quandary, plus his own reaction does not fit in with this.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Cloudyvisage