Umbra Mod's "Once-Per-Account" Aquisition isn't great game design.

[Sandshrew]

DE are wonderful people and Warframe is a wonderful game.

That said, we should remember what makes it so. It is the easy ability to try new things and experiment which gives the game its joy and longevity. Allowing free rearranging and swapping of mods and loadouts to find optimal combos (without excessive commitment to one path) encourages players to experiment and find their niche.

With the addition of single-aquired umbra mods comes the new (perhaps unintended) possibility of inadvertently locking oneself permanently from many excellent builds. This new gear can be a part of the most powerful meta builds, but a misstep in leveling means you're s.o.l. forever. Builds like max possible strength rhino (https://i.imgur.com/47c9cHr.jpg) are only achievable if you don't level your mods up. Other builds, such as max survivability inaros, call for the exact opposite course of action. Most players get these mods well before they are aware that these meta strategies and builds even exist, and are making mistakes because of it.

There are plenty of ways to undo this problem, be it allowing deranking of mods, allowing using mods at less-than-current rank, allowing multiple acquisitions of all mods, ect. I encourage y'all at DE to put forward a path that rejects this philosophy of commitment, in umbra mods and in future content. Thank you.

[Urlan]

Can't really disagree but its not uncommon, most quest related rewards are one time, and not re-obtainable. Warframes being something of a sorta exception, as you can re-buy them for platinum

[SpicyDinosaur]

Wait, how do you get a negative rep?

[Get_Singed]

Uhh... Replace Umbral Fiber and Umbral Vitality with Steel Fiber and Vitality max ranked? You'll have better stats that way and you can put a max rank Streamline on instead of rank 1 as long as you forma the slots.

[Joe_Barbarian]

2 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Wait, how do you get a negative rep?

Well his first post on the forums must have been really really bad ... 

[Death4Peace]

27 minutes ago, Sandshrew said:

allowing deranking of mods, allowing using mods at less-than-current rank

Big fan of those suggestions.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Death4Peace

[SpicyDinosaur]

2 minutes ago, Get_Singed said:

Uhh... Replace Umbral Fiber and Umbral Vitality with Steel Fiber and Vitality max ranked? You'll have better stats that way and you can put a max rank Streamline on instead of rank 1 as long as you forma the slots.

Wrong post? I don't understand what you are responding to.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

Umbra mods weren't meant for other warframes other than Umbra Excalibur. YOU made the choice to try and fit them there and is now dealing with the drawbacks of making such a build. If DE wanted Umbral Mods to be a part of the "meta" builds they would've allowed you to forma in their polarity. Which they didn't 

Edited August 6, 2018 by ShadowExodus

[Death4Peace]

Just now, ShadowExodus said:

Now here's where you went wrong, umbra mods weren't meant for other warframes other than Umbra Excalibur. YOU made the choice to try and fit them there and is now dealing with the drawbacks of making such a build. If DE wanted Umbral Mods to be a part of the "meta" builds they would've allowed you to forma in their polarity. Which they didn't 

Sorry for playing the better mods. My Bad.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Wrong post? I don't understand what you are responding to.

 

3 hours ago, Sandshrew said:

https://i.imgur.com/47c9cHr.jpg

 

[Get_Singed]

Just now, SpicyDinosaur said:

Wrong post? I don't understand what you are responding to.

He posted a Rhino build using all 3 Umbral mods but only Umbral Intensify is maxed and he's complaining his Rhino build is limited due to being unable to max Umbral Fiber and Umbral Vitality, but he wants to use them at max rank on Inaros. He can do that and simply replace them with the standard variants on Rhino.

[SpicyDinosaur]

Steel charge aura will give you more points, btw.

 

As for umbral mods etc not being meant for other warframes, well then they wouldn't fit in other warframes, would they? Logic!

 

However, if you want to put all three warframe umbral mods in one build, well, there are ...sacrifices you have to make. (Get it, because the melee ones are...nvm...)

 

Also, when they are not maxed or near maxed, yea you get better stats. At max/near it you are going to get superior stats, you just have to decide if it is really worth it to have all three consuming your points.

Edited August 6, 2018 by SpicyDinosaur
added clarification

[Joe_Barbarian]

Just now, SpicyDinosaur said:

However, if you want to put all three warframe umbral mods in one build, well, there are ...sacrifices you have to make. (Get it, because the melee ones are...nvm...)

... It's puns like this that made space mom stop loving us.

[Get_Singed]

There's no reasonable way to put all 3 umbral mods on any one frame except an umbral warframe. Just use one if you REALLY need to minmax that hard, you won't be able to fit all 3 in one build. Trying to use any of them at any rank that isn't max rank makes them not efficient stat wise, so just max them all.

[SpicyDinosaur]

1 minute ago, Get_Singed said:

There's no reasonable way to put all 3 umbral mods on any one frame except an umbral warframe. Just use one if you REALLY need to minmax that hard, you won't be able to fit all 3 in one build. Trying to use any of them at any rank that isn't max rank makes them not efficient stat wise, so just max them all.

Intensify goes higher regardless, but using vitality or fiber would actually be detrimental as they cost more, can not be put in a polarized slot, and give you the same return as their regular counterparts alone.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

However, if you want to put all three warframe umbral mods in one build, well, there are ...sacrifices you have to make. (Get it, because the melee ones are...nvm...)

And we wonder why Space Mom went back to the sentients.

[DreisterDino]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb SpicyDinosaur:

As for umbral mods etc not being meant for other warframes, well then they wouldn't fit in other warframes, would they? Logic!

However, if you want to put all three warframe umbral mods in one build, well, there are ...sacrifices you have to make. (Get it, because the melee ones are...nvm...)

 

Yay, someone who gets it!

 

Btw: Wasting at least 1 modslot to put (umbral) Vitality on Rhino just to get a few % more powerstrength is simply a bad idea 😄

[FireSegment]

4 hours ago, Sandshrew said:

DE are wonderful people and Warframe is a wonderful game.

That said, we should remember what makes it so. It is the easy ability to try new things and experiment which gives the game its joy and longevity. Allowing free rearranging and swapping of mods and loadouts to find optimal combos (without excessive commitment to one path) encourages players to experiment and find their niche.

With the addition of single-aquired umbra mods comes the new (perhaps unintended) possibility of inadvertently locking oneself permanently from many excellent builds. This new gear can be a part of the most powerful meta builds, but a misstep in leveling means you're s.o.l. forever. Builds like max possible strength rhino (https://i.imgur.com/47c9cHr.jpg) are only achievable if you don't level your mods up. Other builds, such as max survivability inaros, call for the exact opposite course of action. Most players get these mods well before they are aware that these meta strategies and builds even exist, and are making mistakes because of it.

There are plenty of ways to undo this problem, be it allowing deranking of mods, allowing using mods at less-than-current rank, allowing multiple acquisitions of all mods, ect. I encourage y'all at DE to put forward a path that rejects this philosophy of commitment, in umbra mods and in future content. Thank you.

Erm ... no it's not

it's the mod ranking system that are the bad design here cuz it can't be derank, the one item per acc just happen to highlight  how bad it is    C

[Tsukinoki]

6 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Wait, how do you get a negative rep?

When they first put the voting mechanics into the forums there was the option to downvote people....and that was heavily abused by people downvoting everything just because they could.
Some people managed to hit well below negative 1000 points on only 2 or 3 posts because of that.
DE quickly removed that ability for obvious reasons.

6 hours ago, Sandshrew said:

be it allowing deranking of mods, allowing using mods at less-than-current rank

People have been asking for this for a long time, and DE has always said no with one of the biggest reasons being bugs that could occur (we've had cases where client mods weren't taken into effect, I would guess there would be cases of ranked down mods counting for max rank for clients or something similar), or database size concerns (as it adds a new variable to each mod in a loadout)
Hopefully we can get DE to re-evaluate this idea and actually go ahead with it.

[sasanao22]

10 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

However, if you want to put all three warframe umbral mods in one build, well, there are ...sacrifices you have to make. (Get it, because the melee ones are...nvm...)

no wonder lotus leave us to be space orphan..
To deal with this kind of tenno + ordis

[SpicyDinosaur]

Why do I feel like I'd end up with a negative rep myself for that pun? >.<

 

I think the actual idea of being able to rank down mods is a good one, (I f they want to do it but make it not happen particularly often it could cost as much for each level to derank as it did to rank. But that seems unecessary.)

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

If they do allow the deranking of mods more than likely you will gain nothing back and have to invest the same amount of endo into ranking it up again which means another expensive venture depending on the mod you want to rank up again

[AtsiaZ]

6 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

If they do allow the deranking of mods more than likely you will gain nothing back and have to invest the same amount of endo into ranking it up again which means another expensive venture depending on the mod you want to rank up again

True, they'd probably balance deranking with it costing the same or half the amount of endo it costs to rank it back up, but more likely making it a permanent derank across everything so you can't have a mod at rank 5 on one frame and then rank 7 on another frame.

[PatternistSlave]

Frames are strong enough without Umbra mods.  I'm alright with them only being used as intended.  I'd imagine DE will expand upon them in the future with other Umbras and/or a way to polarize for them.

[MagPrime]

I heard mod deranking; YES PLEASE!