A Reason to use pets more.

[Obviousclone]

I'm probably that super rare weirdo that has used kavats more than sentinels. In fact looking at it....

2000 hours...

and the smeeta has eaten 60% of them (over 1k hours using smeeta).

 

There comes a point, when you've played enough of the game that you don't need vacuum. It's nice when you are farming resources you need, but I'm still capped on nanospores and I have like 400 neurodes and I've built everything else in the game that can be built. My profile right now reads "455/456" and that 1 missing item is the new amp prism that I haven't gotten around to maxing out (and I already have it built, and most of the grind behind that was cetus wisps). If I wanted a lot of endo or credits, I would be doing sorties and maroo's weekly or the index.

 

The "decay" healthbar thing is not really much of a nuisance. I have like 188 stabilizers and that cost me like 40k credits (this is like several years supply of stabilizers btw). If 40k credits is a lot to you, then my I'd recommend you unlock hek and rhino since you are clearly new to the game. And your companion can't even die if you have the upgraded orbiter part.

 

Switching between companions is annoying and is why I probably stuck only to using smeeta. The animations are lengthy and the 10k credit cost per switch is more of an annoyance that shouldn't exist to begin with.

 

The AI isn't as bad as what people make them out to. I know for a fact that my companion is making work because I have hunter recovery (cat lifesteals for me), so if it wasn't killing, I'd be dead. The fact that I had a nekros prime and ash prime die next to me 4+ times on today's big shields survival sortie while I never went down as banshee prime (among the squishiest of frames) kind of means the cat was putting in work to keep me alive. Spy missions and rescue missions have zero issues with stealth. The only stealth issues that I've noticed is if you do things like adaro stealth exterminate focus farming which is where it does not matter whether you picked a sentinel or a pet, either or is not getting used in any form.

The only real issues with the ai, is if you're rushing a map and ignoring all enemies/fights- the kavat may get locked up on fighting enemies or just get body blocked from following you. And it has no recognition of aoe damage/ground hazards. If a Napalm shoots the ground and you stand next to the explosion, your companion will just stand there in the fire. Or during Kela De Thaym's missile barrage, it has no concept of parkouring as fast as you do during that phase of the fight. Or when there's a sapping osprey--- you get the idea.

[vomder]

Give them vacuum, get rid of the maintenance, and get rid of the switch times. Presto, you'd have more variety in what people use.

[Methanoid]

then what would be the point of stationary sentinels when a mobile bag of teeth can go around train wrecking mobs as well as hoovering up all mods, we already have the required trade off, want more damage and mobility, you use teeth on legs, want less damage but more utility including that nice vacuum, you use a sentinel.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Methanoid

[Sesaline]

1 hour ago, Methanoid said:

then what would be the point of stationary sentinels when a mobile bag of teeth can go around train wrecking mobs as well as hoovering up all mods, we already have the required trade off, want more damage and mobility, you use teeth on legs, want less damage but more utility including that nice vacuum, you use a sentinel.

Vacuum isn't the primary point of sentinel use. Sentinels can do a lot more than just grab loot. I would say that Pets and Sentinels would be on an even playing field if there was a pet vacuum too. It's just a luxury mod. It doesn't break the balance for them both to have that benefit to the player.

There are a lot more steps to getting a pet than there are for getting a Sentinel too. That could be enough of a boundary for someone not to bother for a while. Like kavat genetic codes.

Also I am going to run something if I want its effects. Examples of being specific with companion loadout include scanning, damage buffs, resource gathering, stealthing, and so on. If giving pets (or frames) a vacuum equivalent is viewed as a huge tip of the scales then maybe Sentinels could use another pass over. They sound like they're lacking in real purpose when you put it that way.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Sesaline

[xveganrox]

1 hour ago, Methanoid said:

then what would be the point of stationary sentinels when a mobile bag of teeth can go around train wrecking mobs as well as hoovering up all mods, we already have the required trade off, want more damage and mobility, you use teeth on legs, want less damage but more utility including that nice vacuum, you use a sentinel.

Special abilities, higher survivability (in most content), the ability to revive you, much better damage, status, do I need to continue? Sure, a properly modded pet can do more burst damage -- sometimes, when it wants to, on a random mob, while exposing itself to whatever damage is between them -- but aside from a single precept for a single pet that relies on RNG for very niche use, sentinels are already more powerful, with or without vacuum, than other companions. Vacuum is a QoL thing, it shouldn't even be part of the equation. And pets are much, much more annoying to get than sentinels, despite being so much weaker.

I'd love universal vacuum so more people could run pets for flavor reasons. If any really difficult content is added in the new expansion, or if I'm soloing sorties or something, sentinels are the obvious choice with or without vacuum.

Edited August 21, 2018 by xveganrox

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

A smeeta Kavat can generate green loot for your occasionally on a map.  Like it just gets added to your inventory.   Like argon or orikin cells.  Depends n the place.  That far better than picking up the stuff I can pick up myself.  

Smeeta can up your affinity gain briefly to or double your loot pick ups.  

I've been raising Kubrows lately for mastery and Sunika breed actually has a fetch precept where he will bring you loot.   Its nowhere near effective as vacuum though lol.   But its cool as hell.  

I have come to rely on my animals more than sentinels though.   Hunter Recovery+Pack Leader makes you both pretty much immune.   Your pet heals you based on his attacks and you heal your pet based on your melee attacks.   So for warframes that dont have natural healing abilities and want to forgo Rejuv aura for Rifle Amp or Steel Charge or Acid Projection this is great.    Sentinels do have Medi-Ray but I dont have one so that makes me think its rare but even if I did its a small regen, not as good as damage out of your pet.   Plus you can't heal your sentinel like you can your animal.   

If I could stick Vacuum on my animal I would have to sacrifice a mod.   Thats either going to make my animal weaker or easier to kill or less helpful.   That sounds like a balanced thing to me.  

----------------------

But im also of the mind that when you do a mission as a squad everyone gets the same amount of XP and should get the same amount of loot and that fact that we dont because some jerk hole runs off on their own/rushes ahead is incredibly stupid.    Fix that and the vacuum problem will go away.

Edited August 21, 2018 by (PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN

[Hypernaut1]

19 minutes ago, xveganrox said:

Special abilities, higher survivability (in most content), the ability to revive you, much better damage, status, do I need to continue? Sure, a properly modded pet can do more burst damage -- sometimes, when it wants to, on a random mob, while exposing itself to whatever damage is between them -- but aside from a single precept for a single pet that relies on RNG for very niche use, sentinels are already more powerful, with or without vacuum, than other companions. Vacuum is a QoL thing, it shouldn't even be part of the equation. And pets are much, much more annoying to get than sentinels, despite being so much weaker.

I'd love universal vacuum so more people could run pets for flavor reasons. If any really difficult content is added in the new expansion, or if I'm soloing sorties or something, sentinels are the obvious choice with or without vacuum.

Spoken like a true sentinel user that makes tons of assumptions about pets.

I'll give you a hint, I don't use pets for cosmetic reasons. They are genuinely better in every way in some situations than sentinels. I use both honestly. I can't say one is better than the other, but sentinels truly do not have a clear advantage one you realise how non essential vacuum is. 

Pets heal far better than sentinels, create drops, cloak reliably, gives crits, hunts nullifiers, automatically holds priority targets, doubles affinity, heal when you melee, etc

For me, sentinels are good for scanning and cc, reviving (if it's not killed 3x before it even get a chance), ammo mutation if needed. 

 

[Sesaline]

20 minutes ago, xveganrox said:

Special abilities, higher survivability (in most content), the ability to revive you, much better damage, status, do I need to continue? Sure, a properly modded pet can do more burst damage -- sometimes, when it wants to, on a random mob, while exposing itself to whatever damage is between them -- but aside from a single precept for a single pet that relies on RNG for very niche use, sentinels are already more powerful, with or without vacuum, than other companions. Vacuum is a QoL thing, it shouldn't even be part of the equation. And pets are much, much more annoying to get than sentinels, despite being so much weaker.

I'd love universal vacuum so more people could run pets for flavor reasons. If any really difficult content is added in the new expansion, or if I'm soloing sorties or something, sentinels are the obvious choice with or without vacuum.

Yeah that's my point too. My first sentence was "Vacuum isn't the primary point of sentinel use." They do a lot of things aside from just pull loot and they also have their own library of weapons..

Pets aren't as reliable as Sentinels.

Without vacuum Sentinels aren't lacking of use. The real divide between pets and Sentinels is the AI of pets and lack of control for difficult content. Not vacuum lol

[SaltyKelong]

I have a beautiful Smeeta Kavat and really want to use her but i just cannot play without the QOL that vacuum provides.

Sure, i can run around a bit more to pick up drops but in a game where we pick up millions of drops, the QOL of vacuum is just too huge to ignore.

 

+1 for pet universal vacuum or a warframe mod for vacuum

[xveganrox]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'll give you a hint, I don't use pets for cosmetic reasons. They are genuinely better in every way in some situations than sentinels. I use both honestly. I can't say one is better than the other, but sentinels truly do not have a clear advantage one you realise how non essential vacuum is. 

Pets heal far better than sentinels, create drops, cloak reliably, gives crits, hunts nullifiers, automatically holds priority targets, doubles affinity, heal when you melee, etc

I did say that pets are better than sentinels in niche conditions. More specifically, I meant a single pet, with a single ability, that is entirely RNG based and procs on average once every 10 minutes. Sure, they’re easier to revive than sentinels, but they die more frequently, and aside from that buff there’s not much point in keeping them alive.

One pet creates drops on a 20 second timer of ammo and energy. Another one can cloak, but not reliably - their cloak is broken by firing a weapon and has a cooldown. They can “hunt nullifiers,” or they might get stuck in clipping, or they might attack something else, or they might dive in front of a bombard. 

Ultimately their only reliable advantage is a small chance of a random proc out of a pool of three useless procs, one fun proc, and one proc that doubles drops, that has an average uptime of like 8%. I’ve levelled them for mastery, I’ve forma’d and potato’d them, I’ve tried to find situations where they’re useful, but they’re in dire need of a buff, and lack of vacuum is just icing on the cake.

[(PSN)gta4biosmka]

Am I the only one that doesn't care about vaccum ? I mean unless I'm using Twin Grakata or Supra Vandal I don't really need vaccum.

[Thomin]

Give vaccum every pet/sentinel as passive ability. Problem solved...

[Hypernaut1]

4 hours ago, (PS4)gta4biosmka said:

Am I the only one that doesn't care about vaccum ? I mean unless I'm using Twin Grakata or Supra Vandal I don't really need vaccum.

Vacuum is the most overrated thing on this forum. What does it really do?

Resources? Got PLENTY of and don't rely on vacuum, nor do I run around missions focused on grabbing them. I just get them from running around normally. Even at the mission summary screen, I'm rarely less than 70% or so from a sentinel user. I think the game is designed around that rate. Vacuum users are really just collecting +30% junk. You don't hear pet users complaining about resources specifically. In the rare instance I need to power farm a resource, then yes, I'll use vacuum.

Ammo? Only when I use certain weapons. Then yes, I'll bring something to compensate. But for a majority of the weapons....I rarely run out of ammo. It's definitely not something I need most of the time. Are people really running out of ammo like that? 

Health/Energy? It comes in handy, but in modern Warframe I rarely rely on those orbs for sustenance. My hunter mod is far more reliable at healing me than the random health orb. I used pads or zenurik for energy, so energy orbs don't excited me much.

Mods? No problem grabbing a rare mod on my own. I've rarely encountered the stuck mod situation. I have all the valuable mods that drop from mobs. They rarely take long to get. 

This is why devs have been reluctant to add universal vacuum, because it's not nearly as important as people think. 

[Pooroldude]

4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Vacuum is the most overrated thing on this forum. What does it really do?

Resources? Got PLENTY of and don't rely on vacuum, nor do I run around missions focused on grabbing them. I just get them from running around normally. Even at the mission summary screen, I'm rarely less than 70% or so from a sentinel user. I think the game is designed around that rate. Vacuum users are really just collecting +30% junk. You don't hear pet users complaining about resources specifically. In the rare instance I need to power farm a resource, then yes, I'll use vacuum.

Ammo? Only when I use certain weapons. Then yes, I'll bring something to compensate. But for a majority of the weapons....I rarely run out of ammo. It's definitely not something I need most of the time. Are people really running out of ammo like that? 

Health/Energy? It comes in handy, but in modern Warframe I rarely rely on those orbs for sustenance. My hunter mod is far more reliable at healing me than the random health orb. I used pads or zenurik for energy, so energy orbs don't excited me much.

Mods? No problem grabbing a rare mod on my own. I've rarely encountered the stuck mod situation. I have all the valuable mods that drop from mobs. They rarely take long to get. 

This is why devs have been reluctant to add universal vacuum, because it's not nearly as important as people think. 

I mean what's bad about having more QOL changes?

Just like how DE could implement UI changes to show vaulted relics vs unvaulted relics but they didn't.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Pooroldude

[Hypernaut1]

3 minutes ago, Pooroldude said:

I mean what's bad about having more QOL changes?

Just like how DE could implement UI changes to show vaulted relics vs unvaulted relics but they didn't.

It wouldn't hurt.... But with game as it currently is, vacuum shouldn't prevent you from using pets

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

13 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It wouldn't hurt.... But with game as it currently is, vacuum shouldn't prevent you from using pets

Yet it does, and it will continue to do so until Uni-Vac is a thing.

The AI being brain dead comes in very close second.

[Hypernaut1]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Cynicaid said:

Yet it does, and it will continue to do so until Uni-Vac is a thing.

The AI being brain dead comes in very close second.

Your loss. To any newer players reading this... You'll do fine without vacuum. In fact, I say my huras want far more valuable to soloing the Star chart than a sentinel. The earlier you give up on relying on vacuum, the more varied your choices will become and you'll be better for it.

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Your loss. To any newer players reading this... You'll do fine without vacuum. In fact, I say my huras want far more valuable to soloing the Star chart than a sentinel. The earlier you give up on relying on vacuum, the more varied your choices will become and you'll be better for it.

Yes, because a massive quality of life effect that has no good reason to be limited to one companion type is a loss.

Kavats and Kubrow will always be trailing behind without both a brain transplant and Vacuum being made truly universal. Even with both of those things they would only be "on par."

Edited August 21, 2018 by (PS4)Cynicaid

[babywrath]

I know this is an extremely old topic that people have been discussing for years now. I know DE's solid unchanging stance on it is a hard no. They were literally forced to spread vacuum to other sentinels because the demand for carrier was too skewed for them to ignore. 

But, what are DE's reasons for denying universal vacuum or vacuum for warframes/pets? Links would be most appreciated if the answer came from some DE official. Please don't bother trying to explain the common consensus on this issue because I have been reading on it for years. I'd like some video or official post where DE specifically mentions why they won't do it. Please and thank you. 

[Methanoid]

16 hours ago, Sesaline said:

Vacuum isn't the primary point of sentinel use. Sentinels can do a lot more than just grab loot. I would say that Pets and Sentinels would be on an even playing field if there was a pet vacuum too. It's just a luxury mod. It doesn't break the balance for them both to have that benefit to the player.

There are a lot more steps to getting a pet than there are for getting a Sentinel too. That could be enough of a boundary for someone not to bother for a while. Like kavat genetic codes.

Also I am going to run something if I want its effects. Examples of being specific with companion loadout include scanning, damage buffs, resource gathering, stealthing, and so on. If giving pets (or frames) a vacuum equivalent is viewed as a huge tip of the scales then maybe Sentinels could use another pass over. They sound like they're lacking in real purpose when you put it that way.

yeah but due to the fast paced nature of the game a lot of sentinel mods are simply ineffective, the only mod that is universally good is vacuum, shades cloak is too situational to always be of use when you need it, helios scans still need a bit of time to complete and even today still dont get you cephalon rep making it pretty mediocre, same for many other mods, vacuum is the only one thats always useful on any sentinel.

[Methanoid]

8 hours ago, Thomin said:

Give vaccum every pet/sentinel as passive ability. Problem solved...

we cant even get vacuum on archwing or titania, what chance has all pets got.

[Vortuna]

If there were to be vacuum for pets, it must be granting vacuum distance for the warframe (if the kavat is alive), and not a radius around the kavat.

[(PSN)Chel-El]

Mobilize on Mag takes advantage of that vacuum passive or even better, a ranged greed pull because it grabs way more than just loot 

[Toran]

Am ‎20‎.‎08‎.‎2018 um 17:58 schrieb Larr1k1n:

Although its nice having a companion do some damage also in the mission I notice a lot more people go with sentinels because of vacuum.  I was Think It would be wonderful if there was a new mod released for either Warframes or for the companion. 

Warframes: an elixus mod that created a vacuum with at least a 10m radius. Not as high as a sentinels but would be worth using.

Companions: A 5m vacuum mod for all companions it would pick items up as it ran around also attacking enemies.

     

      I do not think that having these mods would affect anything to much because for these mods to be added would mean giving up another mod on either your warframe or your companion.

Please leave your opinion in a reply below.

+1
It's a bloody shame that a thread like this shows up in the forum every month or so and is constantly ignored by DE.

WAKE UP DE! YES YOU, DIGITAL EXTREMES! Get that long object out of your behind and get rid of this stupid Warframe anachronism!

Am ‎21‎.‎08‎.‎2018 um 02:45 schrieb Obviousclone:

I'm probably that super rare weirdo that has used kavats more than sentinels. In fact looking at it....

2000 hours...

and the smeeta has eaten 60% of them (over 1k hours using smeeta).

 

There comes a point, when you've played enough of the game that you don't need vacuum...

I stopped reading there. There is no point (my timer isn't lower...) where you don't need or want vacuum. I don't want to pick up every crap manually. Be it resources (I don't want to ignore just because I could), energy bubbles, mods, ammo or void reactants.

The only time I don't have a sentinel as companion is when I'm farming Kuva, then it's the Smeeta Kuavat your screenshot shows.

I'd really love to take a Kubrow along to the other missions, but sadly it isn't made by Hoover^TM.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

42 minutes ago, Toran said:

 There is no point (my timer isn't lower...) where you don't need or want vacuum

Opinion discarded. According to that logic there'd also be no point in not having every speed and parkour mod equipped cause in most missions of the game you're moving from one location to the next. Actually, the speed and parkour argument could have some slight merit because it aids you to a negligible degree in combat. The only combat advantage vacuum can give you is getting drops relevant for your survival every so slightly faster. Health, energy, oxygen. That's it. It's not even that you get more oxygen or health. No, you only get it a spli second faster, any if you're lucky the time you safe will sometimes extend to the 2 or 3 seconds it takes you to run around a wall. Not having this minor combat advantage in favor of a more durable companion is a pretty balanced trade off.

You know when you dont want vacuum equipped, though? The moment you're rolling in excess resources and are not going for a very specific drop like a new rare mod or something super rare, which happens increasingly often the longer you play. Oh, and to clean up trash when farming syndicate medallions. This perceived notion of always having to end a mission with every single drop picked up, no matter how useless or irrelevant to your progress, just because the mod was very useful for you when you started out playing, loses weight with every rank of mastery you gain until it's nothing more than an anorexic stick breaking in half under its own flimsy reasoning.

New players benefit a lot from vacuum. Intermediate players benefit a little. Veteran players benefit very little from it. Every vocal proponent about univac or even no loot at all pretends that all of these player types benefit the same amount from this QoL to try and strengthen their argument. It's not working, though, not when you think about it. Back when only Carrier had vacuum, there were those that warned of people asking for it to become sentinel wide would not stop pushing for it to be included in more and more gear until it became innate without any drawback whatsoever, or even abolish the concept of picking up drop to get them altogether. Fast forward to today, and it's exactly what fracking happened. Luckily though, DE put the breaks on this misguided, misrepresenting campaign.

Pets need improvements in other aspects to help them become more attractive, as right now they're a bit of a hard sell to bring on every mission if you imagined a situation where sentinels never existed.