SneakyErvin

No the aestethics arent dieselpunk, the aestethics of WH40k is dark gothic with a splash of brutalism thrown in. You can see this on anything from the smaller vehicles all the way up to their capatial ships and planet killers when it comes to the human factions (including chaos). And when we look to the theme of the humans, it isnt about hardship, it is simply life of those born on IG homeworlds. In reality the imperium is based on a fusion between ancient greece and the "holy" roman empire. Where you are born into a "state" and either stay home to maintain it for generations or sign up for the state army to fight for the overall "kingdom", and the roman part comes in with how the inner workings of the imperium is set up regarding phobia, heresy, belief, doctrine etc. And it isnt that the tech is a few months more advanced. It is decades upon decades and centuries. Diselpunk is based on WW1-WW2 or there around. WW1 was over 100 years ago by now and WW2 is soon 80 years in the past. We still do not have laser weapons (or plasmas or meltas) in our day and age, we dont have a widespread use (barely any) of weapons with caseless ammo, we do not have anything but basic grenades etc. In 40k the faction you claim to be dieselpunk has all of that in widespread use, things like both plasma and melta grenades aswell as this finicky thing called a Vortex grenade (caution: use at your own risk). Ontop of that they have real cybernetics, from small things like fingers and hands all the way to the replacement of most of a body. All this also uses computers, advanced computers for targetting etc. when attached to an eye for instance. In addition to those things the IG also makes use of what could best be described as Sentienls from WF, that also allows the owner to connect to it with a highly advanced shared interface. Energy shields is also another thing that the IG makes use of, not for the common trooper obviously, but still available all the same. Heck, the (human) tech is so advanced in WH40k that it is seen as coming from the tech god Deus Machina/Omnissiah, whom apparently exsists as much as the gods of chaos and those of the other factions, like Gork, Mork, Khaine or the extremely old and powerful C'Tan (plural).

That is a very terrible video to use if you want to make a case for Saryn. It also shows you keep up little with what changes go into the game overall, and that you dont actually watch or understand what you watch in something like the video you provide. It is for instance not "what Saryn can do" in that video. It shows the broken state of Dual Ichor at the time of that video, which was fixed around 2 months ago or 2 months after that video went live. In addition to that Saryn adds practically nothing to the performance of Dual Ichor in that video, you can see that by the KPS produced in those 10 minutes. It adds up to 2.5 KPS per second, which with an avarage Dual Ichor at the time was pretty normal stats no matter the frame, you just had to know how influence worked. I consistently reached the 2.5 KPS with Revenant for crying out loud, and when I used Kullervo it would push to 2.8 aswell as 3.0 at times. And saying Dante hasnt been close is hilariously wrong, since a full caster playstyle can maintain 2.2 KPS unless the map is horribly set up with bad flow, the same KPS goes for Dagath with a full caster playstyle. And I have no clue why you keep saying "detonating spores". All that does is spread them, you still need to wait for the ticks to kill (which is also limited to 3 instances per target unless you specifically spam 1 on an enemy), so no lol, it isnt faster than 334 on Dante which effectively kills in those few seconds of casting the rotation on a room of enemies. Even if you add more DV to mark more of a room before detonating you kill faster than spores ever will. And you say it isnt about him being weak or dealing low damage then all of a sudden you weave in how other frames and weapons deal better damage? Like uhm make up your mind?

You are at this point throwing all of the tech out the window and base "diselpunk" on aestethics. Dieselpunk didnt come up with the aestethics, it just means that 40k (in some parts) are inspired by the same thing that inspired the visuals of Dieselpunk. I'm not even sure which game you refer to where you talk about Guard Tech recharging in campfires. And no lol, it isnt just the lasers, it is the superior technology overall. You go soley by the look, I'm talking about the actual tech of the whole universe. Even your aestethic angle went out the window when you used Cadia as an example of dieselpunk when it is at worst modern era military aestethics, with some future soldier concepts thrown in. I'm just gonna ask you one thing. Is your 40k and IG knowledge tied to Darktide possibly? It would likely explain the campfire comment, since it is the only game I can think of that might have such a mechanic. Because if it is, you might wanna read up on the lore that stretches back to the uhm... 70's or so.

I dont see the monetization angle, since the way these systems are set up I see no incentive to spend on more things. I only see a slight incentive to getting of my ass and finish some of the things I've saved since I wanted them in order to use them. But getting more items to add to the pile I see zero reason to, since that would just mean I'd end up with the things I want to use less, since those things I dont wanna use but suddenly get would start competing for the "guaranteed" pulls in those systems. But hey, if you like shooting yourself in the foot who am I to judge, we all have our kinks and fetiches.

It is often tied to the era of the tech level. WH40k however is far beyond that tech level. You are wrong on that. The most common weapon used by the Imperial Guard as a whole is the Lasgun, with specialty gunners making use of either Melta or Plasma Guns. Sgts tend to use a Laspistol together with a Power Sword. And Sentinels tend to either have a Las/Plasma/Auto Cannon, a Heavy Bolter or a Multimelta. The reason some Imp Guard units look like they have WW2 tech is because they arent strong enough to carry the weaponry on their person, so make use of "WW2" gun platforms to utilize what is otherwise hand carried Space Marine Devastator/Longfang weaponry like Las/Plasma/Auto Cannons, Rocket Launchers, Heavy Bolters and Multimeltas. And even if we were to look at the autogun that is more common on "reserve" Imperial Guard, it is far beyond dieslpunk levels as they use caseless ammunition. This is before even considering the more advanced cooling and optics available, along with muzzle velocity rate of fire and other things compared to diesel era and beyond guns. However, what takes most away from IG being dieselpunk is that the most used and easiest to manufacture gun is the Lasgun. Meaning the technological level is high even for the most basic weapon. We discuss it since you objected to WF having dieselpunk while saying WH40k has it.

Yeah I just mean I cant see how it impacts the experience of the game. "Boo-hoo! I cant afford the Toy that does nothing for me in the game". It's a collectible to get if you really like the game and really like collectibles tied to things you like. And yeah, the tag seems high since the price to make them is likely also high in the first place. I personally think it is great that companies/bands do these things. I'd kill for a Norse Stone Troll sculpture back in the day when I played Dark Age of Camelot, or a little Kobold maybe. Got so happy when Amon Amarth had a Surtur sculpture availble through a limited edition release of the Surtur Rising album. One thing I wonder about what was said is the 10% of the players funding the game. Does that account for only active players or total players. Since that is a huge difference in the end.

I'm just really curious what a seperate collectible has to do with the game and the pricing in the game. Like I cant really follow that thought process at all. Do you complain about the price of an Alien movie bluray being too high when you go out and grab a $100 Alien collectible statue? 🤷‍♂️ "Raw experience" refers to how much she gets out of it per dollar as opposed to if she had a discount. The amount spent doesnt matter. $1k is only nothing if you have the money and want more, if you've gotten what you want the $1k is enough for the time being no matter what you earn. Spending for the sake of spending seems rather uhm idiotic. It would also kinda scew the "raw experience" since you'd spend on things you neither want nor need. $1k is also roughly comparable to a sub based game over the same period, and even comes off cheaper with more bang per buck compared to a sub based game. 8 years of WoW roughly cost me $1300. So being able to pay $1k in order enjoy a game throughout 11 years seems rather fair and indicates the game has a good F2P setup.

No. Punk as in the "sociopolitical" sense, the marginalized common people if you wanna call it that, the working class etc. Even if we mark this off as optional, you still arent bound to a specific technological state in 40k to call it any type of -punk. Shadowrun for instance is cyberpunk since the tech in that universe is of that level, even if it has fantasy races and spells thrown in there aswell. WH40k isnt really defined by any certain tech level, it is just so very advanced and uses several different levels of what is considered technology, from basic fuel, warp tech on the supernatural level, super advanced bio-tech, super advanced nano-tech, cyber-tech that makes cyberpunk look like stoneage in comparison and so on. And that is only if we look at what is achieved by man and disregard all aliens. It also takes place 40000 years into the future, so just misses the mark of steam, disel and cyber- punk by 37-38000 years or so. A similar setting that could be considered a punk universe would be Mutant Chronicles/Space or Warzone if you wanna call it that. A universe where man has achieved very advanced technology but got set back to what we have now or earlier for the most part due to an ancient evil returning from beyond Pluto and our dimension. An evil that returns each 1000 years after its previous defeat. The difference in the era that the universe takes place is that this time one of the many corporations that rule Sol have come up with technology immune to the corruption of this Dark Legion of ancient gods and their dark symmetry. Giving them access to advanced weaponry, including people transfered into A.I and robotic bodies. But due to the constant fighting between the corporations the technology isnt willingly shared. The only real way for others to make use of this technology is by sending skilled fighters from their corporation to the multireligious mystical and magic wielding Brotherhood to fight as Doom Troopers alongside them and other corporation Doom Trooper duos, including the highly advanced Cybertronic. And while the members of Cybertronic are immune to corruption both in body and mind, it is looked upon with scepticism by many, including more orthodox parts of the Brotherhood, considering it potential witchcraft and possibly a case of being in league with the Dark Legion.

DA is gate keeping since it is effectively a time gate. If you consider the numbers I posted it is alot of missed shards that the player will never be able to catch up on. If shards were available 24/7 and the farm simply resulted in time spent, the method of getting them wouldnt matter. Getting them faster or slower would eventually still net you the same amount. But with the gate on the content, the rewards end up being different between the activities. This isnt like jumping into disruption and being able to run rota C for hours to get an item quicker in comparison to the guy that needs to jump out earlier, because there the player playing shorter will still end up with the same amount if he plays a bit more than the other guy. Though I dont think cells should be as awarding as DA. What I think is that DA should be set up differently, so someone can do it slower through more runs in a week as opposed to someone that can do it all in one run.

Yes it makes more sense when you write it "Real Robot", not that easy to catch onto what someone means with just run on words. And yeah, they certainly have flavor from that genre, but they are overall just themed around japan, pretty much like GWs space version of the Nippon kingdom in WHFB of old. Also no one says that 40k doesnt draw inspiration from multiple sources, but that doesnt make the faction that thing. the whole -punk genre is based on the idea of punk, not just that it uses a tech level of a sort. Not that the imperium tech levels would clock in on any form of punk really, except possibly arcanepunk due to how FTL travel works in WH40k, which simply put uses magic or the arcane since it uses the warp. But even that would be a stretch. Cadia is one of many regiments within the IG, they are based on modern/slight future warfare. Just as Valhallans are based on the WW2 era, Krieg WW1, Rough Riders Mongolians of old (which funnily enough White Scars also are) and then you have regiments based on european Royal Guards aswell as regiments based on "Barbarians" and "Native" tribes. Plus you have Catachan, that are practically based on the stereotype of the run of the mill Vietnam G.I Joe Jungle Fighter. You also have straight movie references in some special units, like Schaeffer's Last Chancers, that involve anything from the Dirty Dozen to Predator references. And if you wanna look at the tanks and think that aestethics are enough to call it dieselpunk or whatever you want, well that isnt how it works. For instance, none of the vehicles used by the IG are made by the IG, everything originates from the Adeptus Mechanicus, where the vehicles are just advanced far beyond what would be expected in dieselpunk. Some IG regiments build their own, but it is all based on Mechanicus tech, those IG regiments just have the rights to build them because they are capable of it. Otherwise most is created on forge worlds or forge vessels. Like you said in the earlier post, Orks are Mad Max. You have a very simplified view on the Orks, since that inspiration really only applies to the side game of Gorkamorka, which is practically Mad Max with Orks (Gorkers and Morkers) and Humans set on a very specific planet in the universe. Outside of that Orks are more a take on the great migration, which is why the biggest klan is called Goffs. But the Orks also draw inspiration from WW2 and many other things just as the imperium and chaos does. You for instance have mad nazi scientist experiements made real in the ork klans, like their jump pack troops, you also have straight up biker gang vibes, while the space marines instead give you a knight or Dredd vibe with their bike units. Even Necromunda that could be considered cyberpunk is a stretch. The use of cybernetics is just not used widely enough by the common ganger. In reality those that do use an excess of cybernetics come from outside, from the rich part of the spire cities. Plus it is also mostly just regular gang wars and not really an uprising against a higher authority. Since they'd likely be seen as heretics and purged by the local inquisitor at that point for questioning the governer appointed by the naz... imperium.

But it isnt the same rewards. 5x Netracell = 5 rewards. 1x EDA = 5 rewards 3x Netracell = 3 rewards 3+5 = 8 3+5 =/= 5 In 3 weeks that woul be 24 vs 15 rewards, 6 weeks 48vs30, 12 weeks 96vs60 and in a year 416vs260 rewards. And that is just rewards in general with us ignoring the increased rate that EDA provides tau and arcanes.

Warhammer 40k is what is refered to as Techno Fantasy. For it to be any form of punk would require the setting to line up with a single type of "dystopia", otherwise there wouldnt be a punk angle. The dystopia of WH40k is rooted in what would be Gothic Horror of the divine existential kind, living with the knowledge that ancient gods actually do exsist and threaten your everyday life. Both directly from those gods and their followers aswell as from the threat of those that try to hold those gods at bay. Sometime to the point where planets and systems are completely purged. Ontop of that everyone lives in a time of constant war between different alien races, rooted in xenophobia, pure evil or the simple want/need to consume and assimilate, or conquoring for the sake of conquoring. This is why tyranids arent biopunk. They are just aliens that have evolved the way they have. They are also not manmade, so not based on a technological level as such, which they'd very likely be if they were to be considered biopunk. Tau are also not robots, those are aliens aswell that use highly advanaced mechs and unmanned drones etc. You might be thinking of Nekrons, those are a race of mechanical created by anceint gods that also walk among them iirc. Imperial Guard themselves are of whatever base technological level that their homeworld is. But when recruited into the imperium they are all using the same equipment for the most part, of levels far beyond what would be dieselpunk. Including Plasma, Laser and Melta weapons, along with power swords, force weapon and other things of either technological or mystical nature. As to the OP. The periodic table is likely the same as ours with a few small additions. It is still based on iron, argon, oxygen, water, uranium, gold and so on. Then the elements are likely create from those elements depending on what the desired effect is. A nuke is probably still a nuke all the same but with better technology needing less materials for a bigger boom.

But it doesnt succeed in doing that at all. I've stayed in my comfort zone all 4 weeks without any trouble. The thing that has impacted my choices have been based on the 4 personal modifications, the missions and their respective modifications. I dislike the RNG itemization since it doesnt really do anything in the end since we are always able to pick one thing freely, be it a weapon or a frame, or ignoring a modifier if frames/weapons are already fully to our liking.

Not to mention that if the kid has played WF he has also learned it is OK to sell your friends to the highest bidder even if their intent is to kill said "friend" for their valuebles. Plus, things considered as not-appropriate according to the Geneva Convention are really OK, such as the use of flechettes, death through fire, death through freezing among other wonderful ways to pass someone over to the great after, elysium, valhall, hell, heaven or just good 'ol maggot food.

It could work with the -92% status, but it would severly cut all statuses and you are pretty much left with gas or blast in order to have electric free. It is possible that you wont get any ticks at all from the DoTs since they last 6 seconds and tick each second, but the riven cuts the duration down to 0.48 seconds. The pure damage from influence would still be intact though. I would probably reroll the riven and hope to get something similar, but maybe with cold or electric instead of heat and no negative status duration. Electric would likely be most beneficial since it leaves you open to build for any combined status you like otherwise while still utilizing influence no matter which frame you play. Like if I play a frame where I use nourish or get viral elsewhere I tend to not want viral on my weapon aswell. Like my Hate on Saryn atm. Instead of two mods for viral she has an extra mod for more electric and one for more crit damage, while on my Kullervo Hate is modded for viral in those two slots. On Dual Ichor it doesnt really matter, since I need to get rid of the innate toxin on the weapon anyways to get electric free, so cold, toxin or electric works on the riven, since I need to spend 3 slots on elements either way.

Well yes, but if something is forced on you it doesnt mean you use it out of free will. So that something gets increased usage stats from EDA results in misleading usage stats since they cannot see if you use it because you like it or simply because it is forced and you get points from it. In Duviri they can disregard usage stats on items where the item isnt also owned. With EDA that becomes impossible since we can only use what we own, so it doesnt manage to show why we use it. It is bad as it is with Duviri since you still have many cases where the usage doesnt mean you want to use it even if you own it, but atleast it can remove alot of the usage due to people not owning the items they use. Also, we have to remember how shoddy WF usage data is. Specters for instance inflate your usage stats for all items that are part of that specter. Protea ended up on my top 5 list for 2023, even though I practically didnt play her at all outside of some Circuit. But since she is my specter her usage still managed to sneak into the top 5, even though I played several other frames far more actively throughout the year, yet she still nabbed the #5 spot. And I'm fairly sure she also stole the secondary weapon spot since the specter used Laetum for most of the year, while I used Furis actively most of the time after obtaining the incarnon on the first rotation it was available. I carried laetum with me for 5-10 minutes per week at most when killing the Archon. My usage was Kullervo, Lavos, Citrine, Garuda Prime and Protea, where in reality I used Saryn, Frost, Atlas, Styanax and Khora, and potentially also Dagath more actively than Protea. However the specter of her heavily scewed the stats.

It did have the old LoS check system. A new system didnt get implemented until this patch for DV, at which point it got the improvements of current Tragedy. So if you were fine with that, you should be fine with what we have now across the board since both skills implement a system that is more reliant than any we've had before overall. So it is odd people didnt notice it on DV but all of a sudden did on Tragedy. The most odd part is people noted it on the improved Tragedy but never picked it up on DV for 2 whole weeks, even though improved Tragedy from the friday patch had practically no issues. No really it isnt random. All missions can be controlled. Non endless missions that move from DZ to EZ will have spawns infront of you as you move on, endless missions allow for full control, either by relying on spawn logic from survival (disruption for instance) or a mix between it and defense (excav, interception). But it didnt, since it was the skill that even got blocked by Dante himself. This could be tested by using another primer in the sim, prime things up with it, use tragedy with blocked view due to Dante and still see the blocked primed targets die on detonation. Going back to priming with DV with the same enemies blocked by Dante would result in them not getting "detonated" and only take the base damage of the skill, while still having no slash on them after detonation. Meaning DV never landed but Tragedy did. Since if DV had landed they'd still have slash on them since Tragedy would have never landed if it was blocked by Dante, they'd also have large chunks of their life removed from the dot itself, but only had minimal health removed due to the base damage of Tragedy landing. That no one complained about DV is my whole point, since it means people complain about things before testing, as I described here, with simple tests done that showed which skill was actually the bottleneck, even in a fully open setting. People attributed a bug to a skill that did not have that bug after the friday fix. Tragedy itself was never blocked by Dante etc. outside of the first day it had LoS. DV was blocked since day 1. But it does rival weapons. I can maintain an easy 2.0+ kps with Rhino using Dark Verse spam. That is without burst damage available through Tragedy, since well... Rhino doesnt have that skill. And it is easier with Dante since he has access to Roar if you want to do the same as Rhino, but with the benefit of also having massive detonation burst to instantly wipe out large groups of enemies in 3 quick button taps. Saryn doesnt "DETONATE", she pops her spores and makes them spread, the enemy you spread them from dies to the weapon at that point, not the spores themselves and you need to attack the next enemy to speed up the killing and spread further beyond that, or wait for the spores to kill with their limited non-stackable-on-demand damage and spread them with miasma. When Dante detonates he detonates, which means the mobs die there and then on demand. And this is while we conveniently forget his massive defense along with insane single target potential with weapons aswell. Because apparently Tragedy is the only thing Dante has in his whole kit.

There wasnt much to think through since it already exsisted in the game. It just didnt work well with Tragedy. And his current state does not come from that patch, since that LoS does not exsist, it was removed the day after and replaced with the new system. That is my point. People didnt start complaining until Tragedy got LoS aswell, since at that point they knew LoS was part of the kit, which skipped past many at his initial release. Which also resulted in them thinking it was Tragedy that did it when Dark Verse had the old and wonky LoS check. This patch, which notes we are discussing things in provide all the proof you need that Dark Verse was indeed bugged or well used a poor LoS system. They will, since the EHP wont be much different from entry level SP due to the skill ignoring armor, the biggest impact on damage. And it still works, if you alter your playstyle slightly, by not having enemies spread all over a place. No, it had LoS. Just like every other skill that they bring up in the notes. They get improved checks over the old. Also the key phrase regarding Dark Verse is " (LoS) checks more reliable to bring it in line with Tragedy." meaning it had worse LoS checking than Tragedy. No, she just doesnt have burst in her kit without weapons. There is no way to circumvent the need for ticks on Saryn's skills in order for them to kill. And they were never planning on balancing him, since they stated clearly in their devshort that they were happy with his damage. They clearly werent happy with how that damage was applied, which is a different story. I kill enemies with Dark Verse, never said 1. I simply move and cast as I go since it has practically no cast time and allows me to stay mobile while also stacking. I mean, he isnt exactly a hard frame to build given his very forgiving base stats and access to the defenses he has. It's just like with Rhino with a subsumed Dark Verse, it rivals weapons without any need for a detonation tool whatsoever.

It would be hard for them, since in the case of Deep people own the weapons used. So should they then exclude the items from usage stats when used in Deep since they may be used simply to grant points even if someone uses them regularly outside aswell? With Duviri it comes down to both owned and unowned items, so easier to spot why something is used or not since it will also have the owned/unowned flag probably.

One thing I'd love to see would be "mission" rivens. Simply a mod or two or three you can slot on your frames that adds modifiers to a mission similar to maps in Path of Exile or Danger Room Chips in Marvel Heroes. Have them drop anywhere with different rarities then let us upgrade them and reroll them a limited amount of times, then after we've used them they are consumed. In return for negative modifications on a mission we'd recieve more loot, while some things seen as negative could be combined into positives given the correct loadout used with it, just like how it works with maps in PoE.

Tying it to gear is bad bad bad bad bad bad bad, since the gear wont become better just because people start to use it. Having mission modifiers will however show DE that the gear that isnt used is crap, so they can adjust it instead of leaving it as is because "it is used this much!" due to people wanting more loot. edit: The RNG pulls are already bad since they will just end up scewing usage stats, meaning the problem with terrible weapons still persist. I'd prefer that system gone and a multitude of extra modifications added for EDA for instance.

That is still not P2W, that would just be Pay-to-Skip, since there is in the end no competition or objective need to catch up to anyone. And the "significant advantage" in this case comes from having played the game for a long time, so not positively through spending, and that "advantage" is over that new player, that would not gain an advantage over someone by paying. He'd just skip to get to whatever point it is he wants to go but faster. In the end it is also just subjective, since another new player wants to experience it all by playing and he isnt at a competative disadvantage by doing so, since there is no competition in the game. He might even opt to avoid public to experience as much as possible as he plays at his own pace. I mean, I explained P2W in the post you quoted and you still completely miss the main parts of what makes something P2W instead of P2S.

There is only one real definition of it since it was created to seperate one thing from another. What your first point highlights is that people are absolutely clueless since they havent experienced what P2W is and why it was created. Like, single-player P2W? That makes absolutely zero sense, it is quite literally impossible for anyhting single player to be P2W since it is... well... single player. Point two just means you dont get it. The "win" part or P2W is in relation to other players, you paying real cash to gain a significant advantage over other players. This was a term created when competiative games started to monetize the competative part through their cash shops. When you use this term on WF you are also using it on every game that exsisted before there was a need for this specific term to be created in the first place. Since games back then worked like WF monetization and sold shortcuts not tied to competative systems within the games, or they had no competative systems at all. This means that through your reasoning regarding P2W, those games also became P2W when that term was created even though that term was created to seperate those games from P2W games. There were already terms that described the monetization model of those games, aswell as later games that followed that model, like WF, PoE, MH and others. Those terms were P2S, PfC and similar, where they sold either skips, or convenciance items, like expanded stashes or similar that were cut since the game was otherwise free. The term has nothing to do with "winning" over anything but other players through paying real cash. Hence why it is impossible for it to apply to single player games, because it is just you that is the sole player. This part also shows you dont know what the term imples. P2W is innately a bad term, it was created for that reason, to be used as a red flag or black mark on games that allowed people to pay for significant advantages over others in competative settings. As I said to Voltage in another thread about this same misconception, it is like calling Bob a bigot but then saying it isnt positively a bad thing. Just monetizing power does not mean it becomes P2W. There is no competative aspect in WF where paying cash grants you a significant advantage over other players. Everyone benefits from what you purchase if you purchase something tied to power the moment you play with them using whatever it is you purchased. You are right though, pay-to-skip can overlap, or well transform into pay-to-win if the systems of the game and whatever is monetized results in significant advantages over other players. But the game needs to have competative aspects for that to happen. WF simply doesnt have that since we are never competing when we play with others. Everything is shared between the group etc. with a common end goal for the activity. If WF had public zones with personal loot and kill tagging etc. it could potentially be close to P2W territory, but even then it would be a massive leap due to how progression and items work in WF. We dont have strict linear progression. For instance somone in a setting as the one mentioned would not increase his chances of tagging mobs by spending on the latest things in this game. Someone grabbing Onos or Ruvox (that is the name right?) for cash right out the door would not positively improve their dominance at a public farm spot compared to someone without those weapons. Since power isnt linear in that way where the latest is the best so that skipping results in an instant power gain over others. In the end though, we dont even have those "competative" PvE systems, since we all share whatever someone else manages to squeeze out of a mob, or that you help that person squeeze out of the mob by having a rare item booster. I've been through plenty of P2S and P2W games, both F2P and B2P versions. And I see it as a slap in the face of both DE (and other developers) aswell as players when people throw this term around in WF and similar games. It completely removes all meaning from the term and the reason for why it was created in the first place. I mean, what was the reason to create this term when it is going to end up getting used to describe games that it was never intended to be used on? You and others practically brought us back to the time before, since you use the term P2W to mean P2S.

In the first patch yes, which is no longer the version we have in the game. It is also the same version that was used for Dark Verse, which you somehow did not notice, not for the first week leading up to the broken "Dark Verse" LoS getting added to Tragedy, or for the week after the Tragedy fix. Also, why are you hung up on a mechanic no longer part of the game for either of the two skills? It is about Dante's current state. No one cares about what was. It also took them 1(!) day to fix that mess. No it isnt. That is the LoS issue people projected onto Tragedy after the fix/switch over to the new LoS for Tragedy. Which was there for two full week and no one noticed for the first week. Likely since most didnt care about hitting with Dark Verse, since most likely stayed in lowbie content 1HKing with the initial damage of Tragedy. Which makes me think it applies to you aswell even though you claim you played SP. Or did you squat in infested missions maybe? That would explain alot. And in those seconds those mobs are dead. Or do you for some reason revisit "cramped areas" when you've already gotten out of them during the first few minutes of an endless as you try to find a better spot? If so why? That means it must have been intended as part of that which they nerf to begin with. A fix is not a nerf. Pageflight was not working as intended, so it was a bug fix and not a nerf. Adding it back as a permanent addition of the skill was a buff though, since it was an addition to how it was intended to work initially. It isnt a made up issue with Dark Verse. There is a reason it is documented by players on the bug forum section in response to knee-jerk "Tragedy LoS bugged", and there is a reason there was a bug fix that went live last week for that skill specifically, hilariously in this very patch "to bring it more inline with Tragedy". Dark Verse: Made Dark Verse’s Line of Sight (LoS) checks more reliable to bring it in line with Tragedy. Following the improvements to Tragedy’s LoS last week, we’ve applied the same logic to Dark Verse to ensure enemies within LoS are properly considered to prevent cases where being only partially visible would not trigger the check. This is part of the greater LoS improvements detailed in the “Line of Sight Improvements” section below. So can you maybe read patch notes before claiming things are made up? It applies to higher content, since I havent done any low content with Dante whatsoever. My content experience with him is SP Mot and Palus for about 2h, both normal and fissure, SP Circulus Fissure for about 2h, Netracells and EDA, aswell as a Lab fissure survival. And he has no problem competing with my Saryn, he has a far easier time the higher the levels get aswell since he is immortal, so his uptime on damage is near 100%, he also has burst which Saryn just doesnt.

Those parts of his video are outdated. Those were fixed with the implementation of the new LoS system, which went live the day after Tragedy recieved a LoS mechanic and last week for Dark Verse that used the old buggy LoS system prior to that. So none of the obstacles people bring up are big issues now. They were issues for 2 weeks on Dark Verse and for 1 day on Tragedy, with a few minor bugs to iron out. And an enemy walking away from LoS is not an inconsistency, that is just the enemy walking away from your LoS since you were... well... slow. Also, people need to realize, Saryn doesnt deal remotely close to the damage of someone like Dante. She can wipe by ignoring LoS sure, but it isnt effective compared to her playing around LoS i.e using guns or melee to keep her DoTs rolling. Dark Verse deals more damage straight out the door as a reliable DoT compared to spores. As to Sevagoth, he is in a rather terrible state overall in comparison to Dante, no matter how his skills work. Dante is still extremely powerful as a damage dealer and a tank/support/buffer/debuffer at the same time. The overall inconsistencies with Dante were bigger at release than they are now, since Dark Verse used the terrible old LoS system. That there are some few bugs left does not mean the current version is worse of. The real "issues" are those of the people that want to nuke through solid walls. Apparently there was according to DE. And that it already exsists doesnt mean that DE doesnt want to avoid it in future releases. Also, who the hell cares about the first patch? They fixed that in 1 day. And since none of the players caught onto the Dark Verse issues for a whole week, pointing fingers at DE for not testing the LoS is disengenous. An immensly popular frame and most people found no issues with the same terrible LoS that went live with Tragedy aswell? Yes, point fingers at the very limited testers within the company while thousands upon thousands of players didnt catch on... makes perfect sense. Except that every person blaming Tragedy were in reality projecting Dark Verse problems onto Tragedy. Well "having to wait" isnt really a thing. I mean, you said you DoTed things up as you moved so you could detonate to get rid of them. Those things should already be dead as you move on, the need to detonate shouldnt be there if it is the things behind the wall you are talking about. Which it seems to be regarding how you've reasoned regarding cramped areas. This is not about nuking in general, since if it is and you are running around to prime, then the first targets are already very likely dead where you left them thanks to Dark Verse. No, balance and a development vision should be the most important part. And if you think feelings should play the biggest role, then you should be happy, since a wider portion of players were likely happy to see room nuking gone on Dante, so they now have something to do in low level content while ending up with him. Which is undeniably one of the reasons why he was changed the way he was. Or are you saying that Dante was played by the majority of people and those people make up the majority of opinions? If so the change also goes inline with DE philosophy on dominance. What "most players"? The vocal negative minority that is mostly the one heard even if they are a minority? Or you could go and read up on the meaning of nerf versus buff vs fix and so on? And no, it wasnt a nerf, since it removed something not intended to be there. Reduction to OG = nerf, since the value was intended from release but was then seen as too much. Nezha augment = nerf since it was intended to have full range but seen as too powerful after the actual release. So you've now changed the story of wanting to nuke as you get away from cramped spaces to simple nuking? And no, "slightly out of LoS" is not how the new LoS works. You are at this point exaggerating massively. And what you are hung up on was as much part of things when Tragedy had no LoS, since Dark Verse failed far more often at applying the DoT to detonate. Which resulted in a worse situation since the mob wasnt even left with a DoT to kill it. If I move between packs to prime in order to have a massive bunch to detonate I will not have much left to detonate out of those I leave behind, since Dark Verse will finish them before I've primed the rest. Which is why I see zero reason in having enemies come from all directions in the first place. Plus it is a #*!%ing chore to run back in order to loot. So I rather 3+3+4 or 3+3+melee depending on how far the enemies are from me.