Graavarg

I am actually at almost max MR, still missing three of the new Duviri weapons (due to lack of Pathos Clamps) and Gunsen Prime came out of the foundry only today. So I am quite at peace 😉. Acquiring the stuff that came in during the last six months has actually been part of the fun, and so has ranking it up. Though I have to say I truly believe that Neo F2-relic to be cursed...

Nah, it is not a burn-out. There is not even any reason for burning out, since I have "everything" (by now excepting a few of the Duviri weapons). It was more of a question of what I didn't have, which was "fun". And if you voluntarily continue spending your time playing a game you feel is un-fun, you REALLY need your head examined. Ultimately it was a bit more complicated, since I knew (as I still do) that having fun playing Warframe was just some micro-steps away. The easiest one was, and still is "[at least] one riven [slot] for every weapon in the arsenal". That is easily 6-12 months worth of fun content (for me personally). The more complex ones are allowing clan members to share resources, which would facilitate players coming back because they could sidestep part of the immense grind that way. This idea was simply born from the question of what it would take to get the guys back. It is not as if they are "gone", we still game together, just not in Warframe anymore.

Yup, I needed a longer break. It would have been longer still, unless one of my friends/clan mates had gotten triggered by Dagath and started playing again, and needed Dagath's Hollow built in the Dojo. All it took was logging in and running/jumping in the Dojo, and suddenly Warframe was an option again. The "F this" is also somewhat correct, because most of what got me fed up with the game is still there. This post was about finding a way around that, and possibly bringing more of the "old guard" back at the same time.

You are somewhat correct. I ran out of plat in April this year, after close to two years of not buying any more plat and still spending plat as normal. But it is a misconception that vets in general is sitting on huge stacks of plat, though there are exceptions. As for acquiring more plat in-game, that would be easy enough. I'm personally sitting on between 10 and 50 full sets of all older primes, and do have multiple sets of the newer ones. And multiple copies of Baro mods etc. and a sh_tload of good and godly rivens. But if I don't have the time to grind (which is actually playing Warframe), how on earth would it be meaningful to run an account on Warframe Market or, even worse, spend my time watching the scrolling trade window with the exquisite 80's design? That would be beyond meaningless, so I would rather buy plat straight and instead gift the sets & rivens to friends and clan members. This is all about having fun, and actually very little about money. It is also not about "affording" stuff. Buying everything outright is a double-negative. You feel the same as when you ordered a drink at a hotel bar and had to pay 3 times the amount it costs in your own pub, which is "dumb" and "stiffed". And farming and cracking the relics is core Warframe, all the guys I play with went through hunting Axi relics as a C-drop in the Void so the current acquisition options is like a kindergarden's kindergarden. If you buy the stuff you can't farm the relics and crack them with friends, and that is part of the fun. Up to a point, because if and when real life intervenes, it all quickly becomes really sh*tty if that de-syncs you game situation from your friends'. But all this is beside the point, because such a subscription mechanism should be payable with real money only, no plat allowed.

I partly agree with that, and it also kind of summarizes DE's current "business plan" for Warframe. The only part I don't agree with is the assumption that everyone outgrows Warframe. What if that doesn't happen? If someone would like to continue playing the game, together with (old) friends, but currently there just isn't a fitting mechanism for doing that. Because that is where I am coming from, and I'm not alone... If done correctly, such an "evergreen" mechanism need not impact the "cycling" and the frenetic "power fantasy" feverishness at all, and could and would function as an added extra. After all, more players is always better and players paying real money to sidestep a grind they have done a million times are among the best kind of players. Online games and their development runs on real money after all, not on "power fantasies"...

Yup, that's basically it. A short trip of part nostalgia, part pure enjoyment but with a rising and familiar feeling of irritation and disillusion. I don't believe DE will change anything either, but I still wanted to point out that it could be an option. By now 90% of my gang/clan are working or studying (at university-level), several have families and no one have the time to do the Warframe grind. Buying Prime Access and/or new warframes outright is paying too much for too little fun, even if everyone now actually have money. But money is just money, none of them quit because Warframe was too expensive, they left because the game and the grind wasn't fun enough anymore. But all of them would come back, intermittently and situationally, if there was a solution for doing that allowing for focusing on the fun parts and paying to avoid the un-fun ones. Currently there isn't. Which in IRL translates as "perma-break": which in turn means less players playing Warframe and less income for DE. I don't see that as a general "win" for anyone.

Better if you learn to read faster, as summaries are meant for idiots and bosses... 😉

I finally got enough of Warframe last spring, and took an "indefinite pause". In a way I also had got enough of DE's "oooh, we want you to have your power fantasy", in combination with all the immersion-breaking math tinkering. Playing Warframe had gone from fun and interesting to downright silly and uninteresting, and decidedly "un-fun". So instead of carping (even more) on the forum and spending time in a game I did not like anymore, the logical decision was to "pause". I did miss Warframe for a few weeks. Mostly because it is such an accessible game to jump into, when you need to clear your head or have a half-hour of "nothing to do time". Warframe is also king when you have to sit through boring online meetings. But that feeling went away, and with it "everything Warframe". I logged in during Tennocon to watch Soulframe, but that was it. No more Warframe, regrets, just not on the radar anymore. Until a week ago, when a friend/clan member wanted Dagath's Hollow built in the dojo and I had to jump in to start the process. Which I did during another boring online meeting, and noticed that I had missed two things, the fluid movement and "feeling" of playing Warframe. As in "playing regularly", always with some small thing to do, in-game. Because now I actually had some such stuff TO do: Wisp Prime Access had come (and gone) and Grendel Prime Access had just arrived, I had a whole Nightwave-bar to fill and some mods and other stuff to acquire. Basic stuff = the GOOD stuff. Then another old friend/clan-member noticed (on Steam) that I was playing Warframe, and asked if I wanted to join in acquiring Kullervo. My initial reaction was "no", I got the opportunity to try Duviri and while some of it was fine I completely and totally hated the &%¤#¤! Orowyrm part. I still do. And the farming requirements ("why am I wasting my life on this sh*t"-part) for all things Duviri just seemed quite excessive, even for Warframe. They still seems so, with a few exceptions (mainly Kullervo and the intrinsics). But friends are friends, clan honor is clan honor and co-op is still king, so I said "sure". It has been a fun week, still have Fulmin Prime and Gunsen Prime to farm and a few of the Duviri weapons to buy (for clamps), but otherwise I am mostly back in the "been there, done that"-category again. I couldn't care less about the "ooh, power fantasy"-sh*t, I don't know how many Archon Shards I have or have many of them are Tau, so far I haven't slotted a single one, on principle. And the only "power"-problems I've experienced are that I am often so bloody powerful the game is boring to play. And yes, I am "old skool" in the regard that the enjoyable thing about computer games are actually playing them, and that engaging with a dressed-up slot machine is not actual "computer gaming". That's just "gaming"... The state of the game feels to me as sort of "backburner". The Dagath mission is a nifty re-use mix of existing mechanisms, and in hindsight this has been kind of a thing for the last year (maybe year-and-a-half). Coupled with generous additions of "more power" (that we do not actually need, but always still want). The Dagath mainline was a bit different, with basic changes (mostly improvements) to the game. Though why the "shield gate"-mechanism is still alive and well is beyond my understanding (which btw functions mostly on logic and coherence). My take is that a lot of DE resources have now been put on Soulframe and the Warframe Dev team is sort of holding the fort. If such a phase is used to go back and improve existing stuff in the game, instead of adding more fuel for the "power fantasy" and more game-immersion breaking mechanisms, then full points to DE from me. As a game Warframe's strength lies not in the addition of over-hyped "new" stuff (especially if it once again adds to the already out-of-control power curve), but in all that has been planned, designed and built over the last 10 years (give and take a few months). Improving those parts of the game will make Warframe better, while adding more content islands, more resources to farm and more life-wasting mechanisms will not. Yes, the "engagement stats" stats imply that players are actually enjoying the game, but in the really real world they are actually not. After only one week, I can already feel the Warframe stasis creeping in. Even at LR3 there is still content to be had, but getting my dirty little hands on it entails playing parts of the game I don't enjoy. To get to LR3 one has to do such an immense amount of resource farming that it boggles the mind. Even more mind-boggling is the situation where you have millions (billions) of stuff (hundreds of different things) you cannot use for anything in your Orbiter's inventory but you are AGAIN forced still farm ANOTHER new made-up resource to try out something new. Or in simpler terms, with 99% of the game "finished" you are time and time again forced into basic farming to have fun playing Warframe. That is outright dumb, both from the player's perspective and from a dev perspective. Retaining players is THE core measurement, after all. Or rather, retaining PAYING customers is THE ULTIMATE measurement. I don't mind paying for having fun, but I seriously mind paying for "not fun". At LR-level I have done my due diligence and want to enjoy the select parts of the game that are still fun. Every player have their own preferences, but for me, the fun parts of Warframe are: the basics, acquiring and unlocking new Prime stuff testing and maxing "all stuff" min-maxing weapons, with rivens co-op, preferably with friends & voice "chill play", in combination with the Warframe timers: just log in and "do something" If DE could implement this (= If I could have this), I would never need to pause Warframe. If DE could implement this in a way that still generated revenue (instead of forcing us to outright buy new stuff to avoid the boring, un-fun parts) Warframe could also go on forever. My suggestion is to handle this with an subscription service for LR-level players only (there is actually quite a lot of "post-30lvl" players, and the over-whelming percentage have stopped playing actively). After you get your coveted Legendary status you can start paying a monthly fee, which gives you just two things (which are picked from my personal preferences only): Access to a new trader, that will trade anything non-plat for everything non-plat (at exorbitant exchange rates). This would make everything you have collected meaningful again. Darvo's cousin, maybe, or some secret Corpus facility. This would also allow long-term players to decide if they want to buy some new needed resource (like "Vainthorn") or engage in the farming. All with as little "plat"-related impact as possible. An unlimited amount of subscription-dependent "slots", with continuous monthly additions (as long as you subscribe) and the option to buy even more in the normal fashion. And yes, this includes riven slots (you are paying for "server storage" with your subscription). I have no idea at which level such a steady monthly income would compensate for returning players outright buying a new warframe/weapon for real money, instead of farming it. Or for the few bits and bytes needed for rivens, warframes, setups etc. But from the behavior of the players I know (from Warframe and other games) such a mechanism would be used as long as it is considered "fair" (or "generous"). After all, any true min-maxer in Warframe is also min-maxing IRL, and this woould allow more freedom to do just that, while continuing to play Warframe for fun. This is also definitely not "pay-to win", since anyone reaching Legendary level can be considered to have already "won" the game. Once upon a time DE revered vets, which was one of the flavors that got me into Warframe. The game was rumoured to have the most helpful player community on the planet, with advanced players stepping down from their lofty peaks to help newer players along. This wasn't just a rumour either, it was totally and completely true. I can still remember the sheer awe I felt when a 20+ level "demi-god" joined our mission, often offering good advice while single-handedly slaughtering the enemy hordes we had such problems with. I think it would benefit Warframe (and the community) greatly if there was a way to smooth the return and the retainment of such players. Finally, the in-game plat trade is screwed (and screwed up) enough as it is, so my preference would be for a subscription NOT payable in platinum, but with real money. And I would happily support DE and the game this way, if they support me having fun playing Warframe. That was the one thing that actually hurt, when I (finally) stopped playing, that it was a sort of break-up decision. A lot of baggage and irritation, yes, but also a lot of fun and investment. There were times when my IRL world was planned according to Cetus time 😄, and where the next Prime seemed like a real happening. If I could settle for a more laconic relationship I could still "play Warframe", but with that lacking there are just two settings for me: "all-in" or "all-out".

I was thinking about picking up Warframe again, so thanks for reminding me that the current Dev team mostly leads from behind the horde, and not from the front. That said, part of the Dagath mainline changes are actually "leading from the front" stuff. Hopefully that pendulum swings much further, what the game needs is an invested care-taker, not a millennial-enabling "we'll make everything easy for you so you won't feel sad"-team.

If you are maxed out at 180 rivens, all your mods are very probably already fully improved. If you've played long enough you even have a double fully improved set of the most important ones. A low riven cap would feed directly into the power fantasy insanity, since you can't have a META weapon without a riven (logically a riven will always have the ability to improve it more than any other "8th mod"). I can't see how even unlimited riven slots would hurt anyone or anything in the game, whaling, trading and trying to influence price points and all that crazy sh*t can easily be stopped using much better and much more effective mechanisms than a riven slot limit. For a long time now such traders have used their "little helpers" and other accounts to easily get around the limit, so if that was it's purpose it is not working at all. I totally agree that DE should take a multi-year hiatus from pushing out even more "content islands" and focus on improving the core game instead, since there is a humongous amount of potential left untapped while content islands are essentially potential-free by design. The arrive with hype, we are forced to play them until bored out of our skulls due to yet some other new content island currency, to get at stuff we want, at some point the boredom reaches lethal levels and we leave, irritated, frustrated, sad and determined to quickly forget them forever. There are now so many unconnected "islands" it's like an mist-covered archipelago of chaos. But that is something for another thread, this one is about the unnecessary riven cap.

I've said this so many times: I've actually stopped playing due to a lack of riven slots. Chasing the "power fantasy" is about the stupidest thing you can do, if you actually like the game. Wasting your IRL time on playing "Warframe the Slot Machine" might actually be even dumber though. Most of the new content does not really anything really new (well, "content islands", cosmetics, mission copies, new localized currencies and "more power", but all that leaves me mostly cold). Co-op really rulez, but all the guys I used to play with have left, and anyway there is just one mission in the whole game that is challenging enough for hardcore co-op. Actually, co-op max levelling in hardcore farming missions is pretty chill, with friends on voice. But all this aside the basic Warframe is still there, and it is still a really fantastic game. One of true greats, even if it is currently fading. Unfortunately, that content does get a bit old, after a few years. But with rivens, you can actually make new content all by yourself, by tinkering around with old weapons, using the damage system, combining with warframe abilities and all the added new systems. The options really do stack up, and even if it is not for everyone (especially those just wanting to copy other's stuff from the 'tube or Reddit) it can be quite a lot of fun becoming your own weapon tech developer. Or it would be, if you were able to get at least one riven for all your weapons, so you could "develop" them. I have more god-riven powered weapon builds than I could use in a month, and they can kill anything in the game easily enough. But that is totally beside the point. Because once a weapon build is finished, who really needs another OP weapon. In Warframe OP-ness is a given, and DE just keeps adding to the pile. So once again it is not reaching the goal that adds meaning and content, but travelling the path. Putting that weapon build together and making it work. That process starts by getting a riven for an interesting new weapon (past the "0.5 lock"), or for for one of the old weapons that you just happened to pass by, back in the day. Or an edgy riven for a modular weapon. Hours of playing, hours of fun, rolling that riven, forma'ing the gun, selecting warframe abilities, companion etc. to go with it. But to make it all work you do need that riven, and that riven has to have a riven slot. And for some unfathomable reason, those slots are capped. And the cap doesn't even make any sense. Killing your babies, the finished builds, would make the whole endeavour irrelevant and meaningless. So selling or transmuting your multi-rolled rivens just to fit another new riven into the freed slot is a completely senseless enterprise. Which, btw, also destroys the multi-forma'ed weapon build, since you will "never" roll that same riven again. If you like to play Warframe in that way, like me, the riven cap is the ultimate game-killing thing. It really is. After being riven-locked for ages the Duviri random selection system just seem like an added mockery, throwing me weapon after weapon from my armory that has never been forma'ed and developed, never pushed to it's true potential simply because I have never had a riven for it. And with the slot limit in place I never will. So an indefinite break it is, and while I've missed Warframe on occasion there is nothing that would trigger a real urge to play again. However, give me option of buying at least one riven slot for every weapon in my armory and I would be back in a jiffy. Not only that, it would probably take me almost another year of playing to tinker around with all those weapons...

Well, from my viewpoint that is just a lie, and a dumb one at that. I want more slots, I've been maxed-out forever. And I am LR3, so I have a lot of very, very good rivens. I also have over 5 million kuva. And even so, I have not sold one riven. Though I given hundreds away, to clan members and friends, even "god rolls". I will NOT destroy rivens that are part of weapon builds, forma and all. Destroying content you've spent energy and time to build just to get another riven is so silly I won't do it. I can't, I couldn't look at myself in the mirror for weeks. Probably would need counselling... I don't need more rivens for any of the 180 weapons in my arsenal that already has a riven, with a few exceptions (where there are quite different builds to push for). But I do want a riven for all those weapons that doesn't have one. Getting that riven, rolling that riven and creating a weapon build around it it the most fun I can now have in Warframe. I consider all the "slot machine" additions abhorrent, and the "power fantasy" is, at it's very core, idiotic. Becoming too powerful destroys the fun and the game content too, you have to be totally daft to strive for that. All my friends have moved on to other games and finally so did I, in April. But if I could play around with weapons and builds I would came back, every now and then. As to selling rivens, I make more plat per hour by doing IRL work and buying it than fiddling around as a "riven trader", and buying plat both supports the game and allows me to avoid the underwhelming 80's "scrolling trade chat"-window. I actually played games in the 80's (my first game was on a VIC-20), but some low-tech stuff would be better forgotten. And I stopped buying plat over a year ago, as my own futile demonstration against DE NOT ADDING MORE RIVEN SLOTS. And now I'm basically out of plat, but then again, I'm out of the game too.

Yes. I agree with you. But I would go a step further. The potential for an "ever-evolving masterpiece" is still there, but for the last years I would classify Warframe as "de-evolving", and mainly due to the same reasons you describe. Instead of carefully growing the immense, diverse garden that Warframe could be, DE is focused on making it into a manicured lawn with straight shingled paths, pre-designed flowerbeds and the occasional old tree still left standing. The intriguing wilderness inviting players to be explored, with uncountable possibilities of flavor, variance and solutions all down to the player is dying off due to neglect or is being outright removed. In a way this reflects how the world is, or rather how we humans are. The majority of us wants a pre-designed, easily walked path, without any tangled undergrowth, preferably even with large signs that says "go there" so we don't have to think for ourselves and make our own decisions. And mathematically color-designed and "social media"-correct flowerbeds, complete with instructions so we can all grasp what we are seeing and marked spots for selfies, will enhance our easy walk-through. To mitigate all risks the garden designers have stopped implementing any new solutions or decisions, and instead focus on copying existing parts of the garden, or other gardens that seem to draw visitors. And god forbid any thought of encouraging a visitor to start exploring on their own, just like in any modern hike in any modernized national park or garden that only leads to "problems". The goal is to keep them on the sanitized path, passively moving along under the illusion that they are participating in some "unique personal experience" due to their own volition. When all they are doing is copying what countless others have been doing, and being led by the nose. Commercially this concept has proven to be quite the success, not only for gardens and national parks and such, but for games as well. But using statistics and copied concepts to try and appeal to a maximum number of customers will not results in a "masterpiece", just like pre-processed food will never be a real culinary highlight. Despite the psychologically structured commercials and other hype. But the real difference, and the challenge that the "easy and bland"-receipe cannot solve, is that the majority of us also craves challenge and loves insight, and gets a humongously bigger kick from solving things our way than from applying someone else's solution. That is why we read some books or watch movies, or paintings, multiple times, trying to understand them. And while we skim pages in some books or skip through some movies because there is nothing there, just pre-designed blandness. Most of us don't spend all that much time in a manicured garden, we ooh and aah through it, following the scripted path. And we don't go back, because what new would there be to explore. This human behavior, the "already done that"-factor, in turn feeds into the garden design, further enforcing an even more stream-lined approach. Since once the design philosophy leads to most visitor just coming once there is no reason, and no profit, in designing a garden you could explore for days, weeks or months on end. This is just as big a component of computer game design as with IRL gardens and the like, and you can find mentions of "replayability" and "hours to finish" as core staples of any insightful game review. For long-term online games it is the same but different, since "replayability" changes into "player retainment". And there-in lies the crux of the matter. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an easy, feelgood-focused, "challenge-adapted" pre-designed playthrough game, but it is basically totally incompatible with "replayability" or "player retainment". Excepting games where the main content is coming from other humans (PvP or arena) I know of no computer game that has successfully managed to juggle both at the same time. Warframe was and is, in my opinion, one of the games with the most potential of becoming an ever more diverse, convoluted, interesting and "tangled" game, a game that dedicated players could play and wallow in "forever". I liked that, and I respected a dev team that pushed the game in all kinds of directions with the resources at their disposal, taking risks and owning up to mistakes. When someone is building an ever bigger world for you to explore it is easy forgiving the occasional misstep. Even the over-the-top farming feels better when you have all the time in the world and you set your own goals anyway. But that has now changed, with the focus on the totally idiotic "power fantasy". Which is the game equivalent of a manicured garden, do that, go there, your goal is to see the well-designed flowerbeds by following the signs, and for god's sake don't stray from the path. It is something fundamentally different from taking that first step into a wild forest, full of strange sounds, plants, smells and colors, and with the exquisite potential of exploration. Which way should I go, where to put my next step, retrace and move in another direction. All of which are your own decisions, with their own consequences, and you can explore and re-explore forever. Having no exit is oh so fundamentally different from following a pre-designed garden path to it's end point. even if it is smartly designed so that you see "everything" and spend a maximum amount of time walking past all those pre-designed points of interest. In a jungle you have only two main questions to answer: "should I go on?" and "where to put my next step?". When coming to the end of a garden the two main questions are different: "was this all there was?" and "should I repeat my garden experience?". I could have fun fumbling around in the Warframe jungle forever, especially together with friends. And I have nothing against walking a pre-designed "ooh and aah"-path to it's inevitable end, as long as it really is for a bit of fun and kicks. But I am not prepared to continuously retrace my steps through a garden where all the decisions and solutions have been made for me, and where the responsible party is busy straightening paths and clearing out underbrush. And since this, in the end, is more about money than about anything else, the idea of actually paying for such an experience is abhorrent. It would make me feel dumb, like a mark. While I would happily pay for access to an ever-expanding jungle of stuff. The "power craze" is mostly about effectiveness and less about "feeling powerful", since that "being able to kill everything easily enough) gets old quite fast. But what it translates to, in this garden parable, is blasting away the rainforest and putting down garden paths. And yes, it is much more "efficient" walking down that garden path and following all those signs to reach the next point of interest as quickly as possible. But the question we all have to ask ourselves is if that really is why we are playing this game? For me that is a clear "no". Just as I really liked the tangled ever-growing rainforest Warframe once was.

You can't have real endgame content in combination with real "rewards". It's just not possible. Endgame content is all about playing the game. Pulling that slot machine handle for some special "endgame rewards" is just the same sh*t power fantasy BS farming that is now prevalent through out the game. If there are rewards, it will quickly degenerate into the same morass as everything else, the more knowledge and skill it takes the more screaming and hair-pulling there will be from the entitlement brigade. Or should I say "horde". Until everything is made so easy they once again are able to farm those drops "efficiently". And then there is no "end game content anymore". And if those rewards would be "special" in any way, it is like throwing rocket fuel on that entitlement fire. It's the core Warframe raising its ugly head once again: putting the focus on drops and rewards is easy, but creates a destructive spiral (that also drives the totally mindless "power fantasy"). Actually creating content (that is fun to actually play) is much harder, but that is what computer gaming is actually about. Jumping through mission hoops in order to pull at a slot machine handle for rewards is something else. I wouldn't call that "gaming"...

After midsummer it's just "summer", days, dates and months have no meaning. For a while. Also, the computer stays off, unless it is raining...

The best Warframe used to e played together with friends over an open voicechannel. And no, that doesn't really translate to random PUGs, unfortunately. And what is there to talk about anyway? Everyone is doing their own thing, enemies go down in microseconds and missions are so short it is impossible to chat meaningfully about anything. And maybe even more unfortunately, there isn't all that much meaningful co-op content available, since the focus have moved to "the solo experience". That covers both "solo" as in really solo, and "solo" as in doing your own thing while in a PUG squad. Still, once upon a time it was great fun, one of the best co-op games available. Always with voice.

Some companies builds or built their policy around "op releases" and subsequent nerfs. In some games this went so far that everybody knew this would happen, and the only way to get to use the op version was to buy in (with real money) from the start. That gave you a month or two of pre-designed op-ness before the nerf hit. I've not noticed anything like this from DE. However, for a while now there's been a sort of accelerating race to the bottom, a somewhat desperate continuous re-enabling of the "power curve" by adding "even more powerful" options, time and time again. Or you could rather describe it as a race to the ever evaporating "top", the META (in all its different versions). Of course, "ever more power" is the driving force for that whole endeavour, so it has to be fed in one way or another or it will turn static, stale and uninteresting. The problem is the tricky balancing act between keeping some sort of meaningful gameplay and adding enough "more power" to keep the player's interest up. Especially if your guiding light is the interest-part, for one reason or another, because that will lead to adding too much power. As is the case with Warframe. And at some point you will have to nerf, in order to save the game. Because, believe it or not, the group of players that are actually prepared to spend a lot of time (and money) on a game where they can effortlessly kill everything with a mouse-click is really very, very, very small. Not nearly big enough to keep DE going, not even close. One could argue that focusing on content (as in really real content, not just another power thingy or gimmick) would be a better way to ensure a loyal and big enough player base. But therein lies the conundrum, just like with any book or movie. Painting by numbers is not enough, you really need that vision. And to know what players actually want, in order to have fun and engage. However, you can easily add more and more power using a "painting by numbers"-scheme. You just need to reset/nerf your worst mistakes every now and then, especially if you feel pressured to add all that power. So while there are some revenue aspects to adding too much power (and then nerfing it), I really do think there are other demons at play in this case.

Yup, even bigger ones. A good example would be Paradox, which bought Triumph some years ago, then produced the rather mediocre 4X game AoW: Planetfall based on Triumphs knowhow and systems and then published Age of Wonders 4 about a month ago. Which isn't just a good game, despite being an offbeat fantasy 4X game gamer's reacted and it completely outsold Paradox's own estimates 5:1 (sales hit 250k copies in 4 days, the company prediction was "if presale + 1 week reaches 50k everything is good"). And not only that, the game gets played "a lot", so much that a lot of players are getting dangerously close to "complete" all available content during summer. As a result Paradox is now pushing out the first DLC ("Dragon Dawn") on June 20th, less than two months after release instead of "some time later this autumn". And this is Paradox we are talking about, the gaming sector leader in "endless numbers of DLC's over many, many years" 🙂. It's not a big overhyped mega-release game, just a middle-sized gaming "perfect storm". There was a much bigger latent interest than anyone expected, the series has players going back not only to the first AoW (1999) but to original Master of Magic (1994), and over all this time it has stayed true to the core gameplay and mechanics. Gamers love to complain about Paradox's DLC-focused business model, but in this case it instead generated trust (in combination with paradox retaining the original devs from Triumph), gamers seem to believe that this is game that will now be supported and enhanced for years to come. There has been almost no hype (Paradox media has so nerdy it is almost "anti-hype" 🙂) and despite a positive swell on social media (after the slightly bungled release) most of the spreading interest seems to be happening "off channel". It's an interesting case: an oldish game type (fantasy 4X) still following the original basic formula from 1994/1999 and managing to generate completely unexpected 5X sales in 2023, with almost no hype whatsoever. Gamers don't pay for full-priced games for no reason, so with "hype" and "newness" out of the picture, what are the reasons driving such hit sales? It's not even simply that it is "a good game" (which it is, and it will get better and better over time), since there is no way 250k buyers could have known this within 4 days from the release. My take: it's a game/product that by design and/or chance makes a lot of latent gamers believe that it will deliver a gaming experience they have been hoping for. A kind of "silent majority" that have played and liked the earlier games in the series and now trust that Paradox (together with the old nerds from Triumph 🙂) have designed and developed what they have been waiting for. And they have been telling their friends, they are introducing it to their spouses and even buying it for their kids. And even if actual multi-player action is still limited, they like the social "multi-playing" effect: discussing "solo experiences" with friends and family also playing the game. How to design your race, your culture, your hero attributes, your strategy and your tactics. Basically it has totally outsold the expectations because the buyers/gamers have concluded that it will be "fun". Fun enough to be worth paying for. And in a week or so that will get a definite measure, in the form of the amount of players buying the DLC. My guess is that it will sell in pretty high numbers, which in that case will be telling. Buying a full-prized game and then happily shelling out more money for a DLC less than 2 months after release would be a pretty clear "gamer statement"...

That will always be part of anything where there are sellers and buyers, because it is the "philosophy of trading". But not necessarily for "gaming", because if you turn that argument around it will become "we players are here to buy a product, not having fun playing a great game". I don't know about you, but that is very much NOT how I view myself. If there is one thing I hate above all others with gaming, it's when I let myself be fooled by hype and my own expectations. I hate paying for bullsh*t and lies, but I don't mind paying for the fun of playing a great game. And while I think the current devs are moving Warframe in the wrong direction, for reasons unknown, in my book DE/Warframe has always been a true F2P game, something I deeply admire. However, it doesn't help all that much that it is "free" if it isn't "fun".

Yes, I agree (I think). The player might have "wants" and "feelings" and is the experiencing "fun", but it is the developer that sets the stage and determines what is possible. And those decisions influence what kind of players that end up liking, and playing, the game. Just want to point out that even more important is the number of players prepared to pay (real money) for having fun. This corresponds with a lot of other factors than "gameplay only", and with most of those other IRL factors that influence how much money we make as well as all those factors the income level influences. Like post-education steady professional work means increased income which is also a universal trigger for making a family, but professional work and family life reduces the amount of available gaming time. And "time with friends", as well. In gaming terms that translates as something where you can share goals and playing time with your friends, and paying for having fun that way is less of a problem than finding the time (which in in-game in turn translates as "not able to put in 30 hrs per week"). The question: is Warframe such a game (at this moment in time)? From personal experience I think not. I've played a humongous amount of Warframe with friends, sharing all kinds of "goals", advancing together, helping each other out and having lots and lots of fun. But not anymore. Which is strange: the game is mostly the same, just even better technically and now has more (and more) content. All of us have enough money, so that isn't now and has never been a problem (and we've always shared plat and resources around, so no one gets left behind). All 15-20 of us are still gaming (a lot, too much), so it isn't time constraints. And all of us remember Warframe fondly, and know the game in-and-out (I don't know how many hours we collectively have in the game, but it is "many thousands"). But as intangible as it sounds, we all feel that Warframe is now a game aimed at someone else than us. It isn't "fun", not enough for us to get together and play. And "us is an explicit "us", as in a gang of players that likes gaming together. So while I agree with many posters that the writer's "epiphany" is a bit silly in a way it is also quite meaningful, from a Warframe perspective. Because if/when you reach a "this solo pseudo-advancement is totally meaningless" and/or "this game is actually much more fun playing with friends"-insight(s), there is no going back. It's a kind of thought you can't unthink, and it just rips the mat out from under the "one more mission"-syndrome. Meaningless is meaningless, period. So then you are left with this glorious, sprawling game that is best played together with friends, because playing with friends IS meaningful, always. Even having extreme drop-unluckiness is fun, with friends. But playing Warframe together just isn't fun enough anymore, it's like "co-op" was left somewhere in the dust miles and miles ago and the game has moved on in other directions. And that is by "developer decision", a currently relentless focus on dangling "something more" in front of solo META-achievers/completionists. Maybe there is more of them, maybe they are driven to pay even more real money. But regardless, the section of players gaming for fun and with friends (and like someone pointed out, many with lan-party experience in their formative years 🙂) is steadily increasing, and Warframe really could be a great co-op game, due to the jump-in-and-just-play aspect and the seamless solo/co-op gaming. Unfortunately, currently it isn't.

Interesting comments, since my "take" was that if more and more players have this "epiphany" about games being about having fun with friends it is something game designers should pick up on. I agree that it is "old news", in a way. Most of my gaming friends have been into "having fun" for quite a while, some even transferring to IRL gaming because it really is fun (playing with friends). But even so, just think about how many games where the devs single-mindedly focus on this mythic lonely completionist sitting alone playing in a dark room. Sure, they do also exist, but all current gaming research shows that it is mostly a myth. A myth with the strength to influence gaming for all of us...

Just a short link to an article/newsletter in today's The Guardian, using the new Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom as a precept to discussing the general change in gaming from "solo game completion" to "having fun and hanging out with friends". I do think it is of fairly high relevance to Warframe as a whole, and to the current solo-/power-focused direction in particular. https://www.theguardian.com/games/2023/may/31/pushing-buttons-tears-of-the-kingdom-hyrule-map

If there was an option to have at least one riven for every weapon (type) you own, I would probably still be playing the game. Simply because I would have something to do. Compared to running blindly forward the way the slot machine is pointing, tinkering with old weapons is a lot more fun. Or to put it a bit more bluntly: tinkering with old weapons is actually fun, chasing the slot machine is not. And to put that into context: playing Warframe as a way to have fun is a great experience, but spending time on having an un-fun gaming experience in Warframe is beyond dumb. Way beyond. Just think about sitting in a rocking chair on a porch at some point in the future, reflecting back on your life and comparing the fun you had to all the hours of frustration you experienced in Warframe. It becomes pretty black and white. Then again, if you are philosophically inclined, you might question why all that came down to the number of riven slots available in the game... 😉

Yes. And I've been guilty of that too, "gaming the game" instead of "playing it". Many times. But even so I do like to find my own "optimal solutions", not copy them from the internet. Regarding Warframe my initial feeling for quite some years was that DE did not give in, to all kinds of demands. And then something changed, and now that change is running amok. Though I have quite a lot of experience with "development processes" (using software and computers), I have no real experience with computer game design. But to me it feels like DE is now chasing numbers, which is a creative trap and a looping process you can get stuck in when you lack a vision and the goals to fulfil it. I've seen it a lot, and there are a lot of different names for it, but what ultimately happens could be described as a measurement for a target turning into the actual target itself. A gaming example could be using the total gaming time or concurrent gamers playing the game as measurement of how good the game is (along the theory that if players spend a lot of time playing they are liking it). The goal is quite clear: making a game that is so good players will spend a lot of time playing it. But if the vision of how to achieve such a game gets lost, the actual measurement can become the goal, which then is no longer about making a good game, but developing mechanisms to keep players playing so that the "measurement" level stays intact. And there is huge, really enormous difference between making a vision work in practice and between angst-filled weekly meetings where everything centers on coming up with some new gimmick that will affect "the measurement" itself. My fear is that DE has got stuck in such a loop, either due to a lack of vision of what Warframe could still become or due to pressure to keep the weekly dough rolling in. Or both. But hype and rewards and regurgitated and re-skinned content can take you only so far, even if the core concept is still good. And the continuous trickery will only work on "the sheep", smarter and more experienced users either see through it or simply feel that something has "gone off". And those are the ones you actually need to keep playing the game ("the sheep" are never dedicated, they just "follow" and will be just as happy playing the newest game on their smartphone). Just look at Blizzard and what happened with WoW, the reasons are what they are but that game actually broke when they lost the trust of enough of those insanely dedicated players and they upped and left. Or stopped paying, if you will. After a few years totally lost in space WoW has bounced back, of a sort. By going back to it's roots, finding a vision and going for it instead of powerpoint boardroom presentations of Excel charts. And incidentally by slashing the power curve basically in half (level cap down from 120 to 60 with Shadowlands). WoW might never become what it could have been, but it has now kind of found it's soul again. Getting that all-important trust back is a lot harder though, and that is what makes players willing to shell out actual hard-earned, real-world coin...

It's not so much the farming itself, which has been there "always". It's that DE has given in (or you could say "sold out") to a certain subset of players and playstyles, that focus only on the reward and how to to get that reward as efficiently as possible. And "as efficiently as possible" translates as "as easily as possible", in this case. Which in turn, in actual "playing the game"-terms means as overpowered as possible. It has turned Warframe into a "roll the dice"-, "yank that handle"- and "spin the wheel"-kind of game. Space Ninja fighting is now incidental, "horde shooter" is meaningless as a concept due to the sheer op-ness and all new content and mechanics are geared for the insatiable "next reward"-crowd. It's not even only these direct effects on the game, indirectly DE tries to put the brakes on the ever-hungry "want more content" using all kinds of shenanigans but those shenanigans impact ALL players. The best part of game, the Warframe that still shines brightly, is starting out and advancing through the star map and ranking up MR and slowly getting a grip on the Warframe universe. But once you are through that (to a degree that varies for all players) all that is left is meaningless slog towards "more rewards". At the point where you can kill everything easily enough and know how the basic mechanics work, what else is there? Even so, the game and it's universe has a humongous latent potential to become something bigger, instead of just mora and more and more of the same, dressed up in different colours, sounds and cosmetics. This is a game that still has a soul, even if it is receding, year by year and by almost every decision DE makes. I would claim that anyone going to all the trouble of reaching LR3 (or even just any LR) have felt that soul, hard as it is to determine precisely what it is. Or they are anal-retentives/compulsive completionists 🤪. Or all of the above. But as that soul slowly and surely flickers out, most of them leave the game. A short break, turning into long breaks, turning into "waiting for a miraculous change, then I'll start playing again". It's a psychological paradox in a way, trying to save your love for a computer game by not playing it, because to continue playing it would kill that love. So the farming is mostly ok, if it was meaningfully connected to playing the game in it's interconnected, ever-expanding sandbox universe. But when it is just stacking more "yank that meaningless slot machine handle one more time" on top of more of the same, the farming is inherently both silly and horrible. As in "if I have any sanity left, why on Earth would I spend time doing that?". There is an easy check for this, a trick of the mind: imagine that you at this moment in time have absolutely everything in Warframe, everything done, everything collected, 10k plat, all cosmetics. Would you continue to play the game to the same degree as now? Or at all? The answer will tell you why you play Warframe, if you just give it a thought...