CrownOfShadows

Well, maybe I should clarify why this is a problem. I played the Duviri Experience only about 20 times before I was completely burned out on it. That was enough to fund most of the items.... but not the incarnons. After that, and since then, I only speed run the Lone Story to get pathos clamps and collect things from the plants if I run the circuit. So basically, after working through all the content in Duviri, I was able have enough materials for most things (except Kullervo when he released, which I had to go do dedicated farm for). What this means is that there is... No reason for me to play the Duviri Experience ever again (like most content islands, it's farmed and done) I seem to get enough residual materials from the plants for all other incarnon materials. Plants don't give pebbles. I still have an occasional need for Pathos Clamps but get those through the Lone Story speed run Incarnons still ask for 100 nacreous pebbles Why this is a problem is because I have to make dedicated Duviri Experience trips to go get pebbles AND ONLY pebbles. Nothing else. JUST PEBBLES. Now you might think that it's fast, and I agree it's not the worst farm in Warframe, but it is NOT a good time. If you doubt that, I would challenge you to check your current pebble count, go to Duviri, and farm exactly 100 additional pebbles. It's not as fast as you're pretending it is, and it is definitely not fun after the 20th dive. Now if you're still (for some unknown reason) regularly playing the Duviri Experience (which would honestly amaze me) and just slowly doing all the activities including fishing, then sure, you'll accumulate a lot of random materials and this won't be a big issue for you. But I lost all reason to play the Duviri Experience long before even Kullervo released and the only reason, the ONLY one, for me to go back... is only for pebbles. Lastly let me clarify that I now have finished every single Incarnon (including all wraith and prisma and prime variants, but not the mk-1 or some of the basics because I can't be bothered). The only one I don't have is the Zylok Prime which just released. Listen. I have the actual incarnon, it's sitting in my inventory right now. I do not have 100 pebbles. The problem is such that I cannot even summon the will to go get another 100. I've already made dedicated maw runs for both Kullervos and many of the other incarnons. I'm tired of doing it. I'm tired. No more. Maybe in a few more weeks if I lose my mind I'll go do that, but right now that incarnon is just sitting in my inventory waiting for pebbles. If it was 50.... MAYBE I can summon the will. Not 100. I'd even go so far as to say every instance that requires 100 pebbles, not just incarnons, should be lowered to 50. You just should not ask people to fish that much.

The 100 nacreous pebble requirement for various incarnons should be lowered to 50 Thanks

In this latest devstream they mentioned that they reintroduced the key system for the Abyss of Dagath as a way to test whether players would organize groups. Two things: first, that is a poor way to test that because it was not communicated at all, secondly if you want prebuilt squads (for things like raids) you need to have content that requires specific warframes, not content that requires keys or items. There's a world of difference between saying you must have X, Y & Z gear wheel items in your squad and saying you must have a healer, dps, tank in your squad (or when it comes to WF other things). Gear items are just a checkbox to fill out, and people would generally rather solo that if possible than deal with the hassle of organizing a group. One is about complicating the entry to the mission, the other is about complicating the actual gameplay. One of those things is a genuine difficulty lever, the other is only frustrating. I'm not against prebuilt squadplay, although it does tend to create elitism and thus toxicity, but on the other hand can introduce some really meaningful gameplay if done well. I think that some things that should seriously be considered for any content that requires specific squad setups are... A squad finder or lobby system. Trying to organize squads via recruit chat is hard enough even when everyone is trying to bring the same thing (relics). There needs to be an automated system to help players form squads, and the more complicated the mission and/or the mission requirements the more this is true. Clarity about what is needed. You need to tell players what they need (and why) before they try to find a group. Sooner or later it comes down to experience vs newcomer, but you still need to be clear about what is expected. This is still a problem for tridolons. Players doing them for the first few times have no clue wtf is going on because it's never explained to them anywhere. I'm not saying provide a tutorial for complicated content - and there is some real magic to letting players figure out how to solve things on their own, but you need to prep newcomers to some degree when it comes to complicated missions otherwise it just creates frustration. With the tridolon example, communicating to players that they need madurai, healing, how to use lures and how many are needed for each, how to take the shards to spawn the next one and where.... are all things that should be in the game as advance knowledge. IMO the best way to do this is to introduce each needed element to the player and show how it is used before demanding they use it. That way, when a player queues up for a mission that requires specific things, they have already been trained on how to operate and what is needed. They might not have the experience to do it efficiently, but at least they have some idea what to do. Lastly, let me talk about design space for squadplay. Warframe is not designed for it. Every frame is designed to be self-sufficient (especially in modern WF) and any warframe can solo any content. HOWEVER, I think there is still a great space for squad interaction, and instead of fixing frames to be squad dependent you can fix enemies and/or environments to demand it. As I see it, this takes 6 possible forms in WF: Juicers (Wisp, Citrine, Harrow) DPS (Mesa, Saryn, etc etc) DR (Citrine, Baruuk, Styanax, Rhino, etc) CC (Khora, Hydroid, etc) Invisibility (Ivara, Loki, Octavia, etc) Safe Space (Limbo, Frost) Content can be designed to cater to all of these categories, and then compounded so that specific squad setups are needed, with each frame contributing it's specialty. There might be raid sections that require invisibility, for example, or that require great DR, or great DPS, or their might be environmental cataclysms that require safe spaces, etc. I would note that it's important no single squad member failing at their job bring the mission to it's end as well - rather that there be other but more difficult ways of dealing with any challenge. For example, if you need to get through the invisibility section but your Loki is out of energy - perhaps there's a long way around. Stuff like that.

6. Chroma 7. Vauban 8. Atlas 9. Oberon 10. Limbo 11. Trinity

The playerbase has shown time and again that they don't want BAD PvP. That's a very important distinction.

Well, mods aren't infinite, so kicking the can down the road a bit is all that needs to be done until another 20-50 mods appear, and DE seems to have mostly stopped innovating with mods so I don't see that happening anytime soon. No matter what you do players will always tend towards efficiency (despite what people try to claim on this forum about 'building to have fun'). I introduced the effectiveness gradient, the bonus activation, the valence and the corruption to all combat this natural efficiency proclivity by creating meaningful trade-offs. The more difficult it is to decide what mod should be used where, the better it is imo. It's far from perfect, but I'm just throwing the concept out there. What would YOU do about all the forgotten mods and the tightness of builds?

So there was some bonuses on an arbitration that made me raise an eyebrow just now... and I was like, heck, haven't played an Arbitration in forever, so I got into it. It was a disruption on Lua. Got through the first 4 conduits, round 1. One guy left. Another guy died and then left immediately after. Thanks for showing up guys -_-

Note that everything here is just a guess. There might be 10 slots per tree (enough to get into deeply unused mods), or 2. There might be 3 slots with bonuses active allowing you to put in the full gladiator set or augur set, or instead of dropping the power so low it might never go below half. It's all adjustable. Things like equilibrium and flow might be classified under abilities idk. The ability tree is unfortunately still very stacked and also the most dangerous, but there's also a lack of interesting "sub-par" ability mods. The corrupted idea is problematic but interesting. It would be hard to create counters and maybe it's just a pool of generic counters rather than targeted ones idk. Note that I've combined exilus and augments in the same tree like of course should be done xD *also I included steel fiber here which was a mistake - it's mutually exclusive with umbral fiber so something else would have to be in that slot Oh and also - I'm completely ignoring capacity for this example, but capacity limits could be a real thing to deal with in such a scenario. Whether or not each tree would have it's own capacity idk. Oh and forma, this could also be a forma hog, depending on said capacity limits

Put together a visual to help stimulate the neurons: and also a possible example of how such a thing might work in practice as best I could

This would depend on the exact implementation, number of slots and number of competing mods. If hp mods are also included in the 'defense tree' then that expands the competition, or there are other functional systemic possibilities like I mentioned corruption and valence. It is a danger, I agree, but not an unmanageable one. It's a balance between too much competition and not enough competition. Jugulus, Amar & Carnis mods were mostly DOA because everyone's builds are trying to cram ability range, strength, efficiency, power in with shields, armor, hp, shield recharge (soon) energy economy, augments, etc. Minor mods just never stand a chance of getting into a build. You could fully archive 2/3 or 3/4 of all warframe mods and nobody would notice, or like 9/10 of all exilus mods. The idea is to provide space for these to compete, and to create that by lowering the competition. I suppose you could also divide mods into two categories and only allow 'specialty' mods in the specialized section, not sure, that might be good, might not be. You mentioned the bonuses, and actually I think the bonuses are the bigger problem. Even if the stats are muted in the specialized section, there's no way to mute the bonuses, so there could be bonus overload (depending on implementation). An inelegant solution would be to disable all bonuses in the extended trees, but idk if that's the best way to go about it. Maybe have certain slots in the trees that allow bonuses - an interesting idea actually - as that would prioritize a mod for its bonus rather than its main stats. Well, the idea is that we keep the diversity basically as it is, we just add trees for people to put all the other dozens of mods that are never used. Basically a way for minor mods to compete - not with the big boy mods, but more with each other.

I'm a fan of PvP in WF simply because it would solve DE's content drought problem. In the dead of night when I'm ready to die and I fire up WF I wish there was a mode to jump into and have a good time, but there's not, so I either blur myself into the tedium of a long survival or go play a game that understands activities. Despite all the nay-sayers, I think it can be done in WF to a high level, BUT I do very much doubt that DE as a company has the resolve to maintain a PvP system. They do require constant attention, balancing, and reward refreshes to stay alive. Based on all the content islands and conclave itself, even a spectacular PvP system would probably be abandoned and decay, sadly.

Well I'm not saying get rid of shards. And my proposal still includes an 'open unpartitioned versatile table' as it's core. Also I didn't specify where in the progression such a hypothetical mod specialization tree might occur, it could easily also be an end-game pursuit.

If you think about archon shards... they're basically doing the job mods were meant to. For example, does anybody actually use Natural Talent anymore? I doubt it, shards are doing that mod's job now. Increase ability power? Not mods anymore, now it's shards. Increase hp, armor, energy, shield? Shards, not mods. 1 blue armor shard is more armor than a maxed Steel Fiber (depending on the frame ofc since mod is % not flat). And you can put 5 of them in. And they can be tau. But it's not just shards, it's also arcanes. Arcane Blessing = 1200 hp. How many maxed Vitalities is that? Arcane Guardian is 900 armor... how many Steel Fibers is that? Now, I'm not saying that having 3 or 4 different systems that are all accomplishing the same thing is bad - in fact from a design standpoint I can imagine that it's useful - but I am saying that this really highlights how the mod system has failed us. I think that what the mod system really needs is to have a core section and specializations that branch off of it. What I mean by this is that there should be a core section where all mods compete with each other for premium space (ala 'build diversity'), and then a specialization section for each area, like defense area, an ability area, a resistance area, a utility area, etc. Within these specialized areas mods of the same type would compete with each other rather than with EVERY MOD IN THE GAME> For example, in the defense area, all the armor mods would compete with each other for the available space. So Steel Fiber, Armored Agility, Health Conversion, Gladiator Aegis, Mecha Pulse, Jugulus Carapace, Amar's Hatred, Carnis Carapace, etc would all compete for space in the defense tree (obviously probably not at full strength - the core section would be full strength and the side trees would have modifiers or something, or there could even be full strength, half strength, quarter strength sections, or sections that are 'corrupt' and pit mods against each other or 'valence' sections that hybridize mods [like FF7 materia ha] - just spitballing). The point is, it doesn't matter if we get new armor mods, new health mods, etc... if they're not better than the current top-tier they will never make it into any build. With a specialization system like this we can use mods, retain build diversity, and only introduce minor power creep, as well as create deep 'skill tree' type of builds on frames. What do you think?

Those things, or if they simply showed it on the candidate like they do the weapons. I really struggle to come up with a scenario where RNG is good. It's bad on relics, it's bad on boss drops (and was on archons), it's bad on lichs/sisters, it's bad everywhere and not just in WF, in every game I've ever played that relied on it. The only thing I can think of where it doesn't totally suck and where I don't mind it so much is on resource drops, but when you really need a resource (like say.... tellurium or scintillant) it becomes a bummer then too. The only time RNG works as a healthy mechanic is when no one cares anymore at all.

RNG is such a bad mechanic

Interesting! Valence fusion on steroids. If nothing else, this is a glorious idea for Infested Lich/Sister style weapons if that ever happens.

I actually think this is a great idea and have advocated for it before myself. The reason is that I believe it would Encourage people to set up certain weapons for certain factions Encourage people to use more weapons (instead of taking the Laetum or the Nukor on every mission for example, people would take other interesting secondaries like the Angstrum and the Dual Toxocyst incarnons) Open up the possibility to create enemies that are truly elemental, forcing players to bring anti-element configured weapons to deal with them Open up the possibility for more niche weapons, emphasizing them as tools for specific jobs rather than all trying to do the same thing (the Miter's anti-nullifier feature is a great example of this. Playing vs Corpus, I would carry that in my gun wheel for sure) I'll add that I would really appreciate a feature like this for amps

Hijack is probably the worst to solo. Even with Hildryn and Inaros, the problem isn't so much the drain as it is the enemies shooting the objective. Frames that eliminate or shut down the enemies are almost more valuable than having the tank for the drain, which is why Nova is nice she slows them and if they get too close they can be popped. A max lull build on Baruuk can also work okay, or if you're daring Limbo. Mesa is an option too - anything that can shut down the map and stop them from shooting. I have no idea if Hijack objectives operate the same as defense objectives - IIRC they don't, otherwise Gara would be fantastic for Hijack. Hijack needs an overhaul as a game mode imo.

Can we please get ability stats in our HUD? Current Ability Strength, Range, Duration, Efficiency. It's just some numbers. And armor too.

Like a lot of game modes, such as the Circuit or any endless mission, interception ESPECIALLY, one player leaving tends to start a cascade where everyone just tosses in the towel.

Well, we'll agree to disagree on that.

Well if you're trying to argue that 6 runs with a full squad of radiants is a fair and balanced grind for one item, then those stats are fine. I don't think that's very balanced though. The sheer amount of game time it takes to get 6 radiant relics and a squad with 6 radiant relics each also, plus all the void traces necessary to refine 6 radiant relics in the first place, it's just too tortuous of a grind for ONE item and a complete disrespect of player time.

While the physical model was made larger and more visible awhile back, the actual hit radius remains so small that you can actually physically pass through the model without capturing it. It shouldn't take half a dozen jumps to get the thing.

I'll second everything said here, I used Khora for every SP solo interception & defense & mobile defense too. Being able to cast 2 strangledomes makes her probably the best interception frame.

Yeah it's too rare. When you have a full squad running radiants for half a dozen missions and they still can't get it, there's a problem. It's a problem because of how much time it takes to: get the relics get the traces get the group run the missions Especially in the off-season. If we could please just increase the chance from 0.000000000001% to 0.01% (or better yet do some deep thinking about making the relic system feel better in general) I understand there's supposed to be and should be a grind associated with it, but at some point there's a line, unfair is unfair. To do all that work for nothing sucks and make me absolutely hate it.