[DE]Marcus

[PC] C̶̹̃h̴̊̍̐͜i̶͓̩͛̽m̸̨̈́͘e̴̤̒ŕ̸͉͋̕å̸̙̭͕: Update 23.10 - Arbitrations: Lethal Alerts Feedback Megathread

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6 hours ago, Linisti said:

Please no, a more viable fix would just be to have them drop already filled. I don't want to do 10 mins of survival for a 100 endo star

That's not a viable fix either.

If you look at the drop rate I put in there your chances are 3x or more to get a statue.

The reason for that was intentional.  

You also can't have them drop full unless you want to destroy the entire endo economy.

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After playing a couple of times I might also recommend increasing enemy level and buffing the spawn rate, also require level 30 frames and weapons so it isn't an xp farm.

Rewards are nice, but challenge is nicer for vets.  We want something to really justify our load outs which are only going to get MORE BUFFED come fortuna and having additional things to work with (if zaws are any indication about kit guns we'll only get more stupidly OP).

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2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Idea: Make the drones take 500% Void damage. The drones are not much of a problem, but it would be interesting (and allow for more diverse loadouts) if you could use the Operator as a 'problem solver' for the drones.

maybe not 500 but I like this idea 🙂  

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3 hours ago, Solarsyphon said:

I like the invul bots. More stuff like that plz.  I suggest an invis detector  invis is still to cheesy. Also feels a little empty we need some more chaos throw in bosses, eximus squads and orbital strikes!

 

Also you loose buffs on host migration... Ruined my op rhino fun

 

+1000

Loss of buff can be pretty serious... allowing 3 sec invul on migration that triggers with key input would probably be a decent quick fix.

Edited by Klokwerkaos

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6 hours ago, UltraRareSloth said:

totally need individual extract on survival and excavation type mission

because after mission objective complete when abort or dead the alert mark as complete i don't get reward and can't play again

some want to play long but i don't so i think individual extract need here

or make it like normal alert count as complete when get mission reward so i can abort and play it again

 

You can totally extract for rewards you just lose your pick ups.

Lets be very real here:  If you're farming resources here you're doing it wrong.  If you need resources in a challenge mode designed for vets, then the enemy levels aren't high enough to keep you out.

This is another reason why I think enemy levels need a buff here.

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The rewards need to be at 5 waves... I just did a 43min game, only B rotation for rewards. if that was a survival it would have been the second dip in to rotation C rewards. There might be the possibility we were just slow or something, but the rewards to effort ratio isnt comparable at all.

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They just need to speed almost everything up and up the levels accordingly. 10 minutes even for sirvoval is such a ****. Funny how interception now feels liek a faster gamemode of all of them. Shame. Everything else is such a slog.

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20 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Survival: Life Support Capsules are worth 75% of what they're normally worth!
Interception: Towers controlled by enemies fill the "Opponent" progress bar at double the rate!
Defense: You're protecting an NPC and have much less downtime between waves!
Excavation: Increased Defense time to 3:00!
Defection: Rescue targets have no revive state!
Infested Salvage: Consoles have half their normal Health

  • Survival . Spawn rate too low. It has the rate of a 1 player spawn rate in a 4-player mission.
  • Interception. Thanks to the enemy double rate, it's almost impossible to solo. 
  • Defense. For some reason, the NPC follows one of the player, that is GOOD! We need to be able to revive the NPC. As it's health aren't affected by any thing else other than enemy' damage.
  • Excavation. Low spawn rate of powercell carrier. Low spawn rate of any units. 
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make them replayble i dont want to wait another hour just to get more essence its the only reason i do them

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I think the 4 mods in RNG table should be move to the NPC shop. In exchange the table should be:

  • Endo change to 1 Vitus Essence.
  • Scupture change to 1 to 2 Vitus Essence.
  • Mods (currently empty slot) change to 2 to 4 Vitus Essence.

In return of the affects of the above changes, DE may increase the amount of Vitus Essence needed to buy the mods off the shop.

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2 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

That's not a viable fix either.

If you look at the drop rate I put in there your chances are 3x or more to get a statue.

The reason for that was intentional.  

You also can't have them drop full unless you want to destroy the entire endo economy.

"3x or more to get a statue" aka just as likely as the mods that are dropping (half the reason anyone is there). Adding stars wouldn't the problem of having less stars than sculptures. The "Endo" economy isnt an economy to begin with, if you actually take the time to look at the market, you'll find that amber stars arent 5p, they are 2-5p. Just like how fish, gems and whatever other mediocre tradable resource are 2-5p. You want something faster, you pay more for it: simple as that. The main problem with "star economy" is that noone is going to waste a trade over 5p. Also, there will always be a demand for endo, not matter how much sculptures there are. If the price of a random sculpture goes from (what it is now) 10pl, to 5pl, it will make no difference other than people getting it faster and in higher quantities.There are plenty of ways to fix the gap between star spawns and sculpture drops, but dilluting arguable one of the purest drop tables ingame isnt one of them. Again, it doesnt matter how low the chance, dillution is dillution. Me, nor anyone else, wants to go through a rotation already twice the normal length for a star.

Edited by Linisti
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These drones completely fail the purpose that they probably intended to have. Why are they immune to Warframe Abilities like Atlas Landslide, Valkyr Talons etc? The drones themselves pushes a meta again. Not only do they behave poorly but also dodge your attack AND make it necessary to use non-aoe attacks to kill them first. Because in combination with an ancient the aoe attack will heal the drone.

In Survival specifically the reduction of the spawning enemies leads to less air drops which in return with 75% efficiency is even worse.

The doubled time on the rotation is just extremely boring. It doesn't make it more difficult!!! IT JUST MAKES IT MORE TIME THAT IT IS FECKIN ANNOYING!

Why can't we give Defense targets OUR guns? They run around with their NERF guns being completely unhelpful and teleport back and forth to teammates if they are scattered.

 

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1 minute ago, GA-Bulletproof said:

These drones completely fail the purpose that they probably intended to have. Why are they immune to Warframe Abilities like Atlas Landslide, Valkyr Talons etc? The drones themselves pushes a meta again. Not only do they behave poorly but also dodge your attack AND make it necessary to use non-aoe attacks to kill them first. Because in combination with an ancient the aoe attack will heal the drone.

In Survival specifically the reduction of the spawning enemies leads to less air drops which in return with 75% efficiency is even worse.

The doubled time on the rotation is just extremely boring. It doesn't make it more difficult!!! IT JUST MAKES IT MORE TIME THAT IT IS FECKIN ANNOYING!

Why can't we give Defense targets OUR guns? They run around with their NERF guns being completely unhelpful and teleport back and forth to teammates if they are scattered.

 

I love the drones. Only issue I've had is the weird limbo interactions. I'd like more types of drones. I think if there is a bunch each countering different common tactics I'd be very happy. My suggestions are :

Anti invis which reveals invis targets ( end the loki master race!) 

Invisibility which makes enemies invisible

Nullifier which has a nullifier bubble ( like from old LOR) 

Scramble the messes with the mini map ( like the propaganda drones)

Speed which speed up enemies ( arbiters should employ a speedva)

Slow which slows down warframes ( and a slowva) 

 

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20 minutes ago, Solarsyphon said:

I love the drones

The Drone is just a re-skin nullifer, but with wider range, and 100% damage reduction to linked.

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Just now, low1991 said:

The Drone is just a re-skin nullifer, but with wider range, and 100% damage reduction to linked.

Not really nullifiers are a physical barrier you can shoot and use abilities around these guys and their targets you can't with a nullifier . If anything their more like ancients. 

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30 minutes ago, Solarsyphon said:

I love the drones. Only issue I've had is the weird limbo interactions. I'd like more types of drones. I think if there is a bunch each countering different common tactics I'd be very happy. My suggestions are :

Anti invis which reveals invis targets ( end the loki master race!) 

Invisibility which makes enemies invisible

Nullifier which has a nullifier bubble ( like from old LOR) 

Scramble the messes with the mini map ( like the propaganda drones)

Speed which speed up enemies ( arbiters should employ a speedva)

Slow which slows down warframes ( and a slowva) 

 

Why an invis specific drone? Shouldn't it be a blanket anti-survivability drone? Lots of frames have survivability skills on par with invis, why is it important only to impact a handful of those on the far squishier side? The effects would already be disproportionate towards the more caster-esque frames if applied to all due to their inherently lower stats as a result of their kit, what is the aim at focusing solely on those? 

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Okay so far so god on the Arbitrations as far as I'm concerned. The bonuses to certain frames for the missions really changes things up. Also the new arbiter drones really change up the gameplay quite a bit. However, there seems to be several bugs with certain frames.

For example, during a survival I got the 300% strength bonus on my nova. As such, I thought "Oh, I'll just bring my speedva setup so that I can benefit from the other stats!" As it turns out, I was wrong, because the bonus was not taking effect leaving level 60+ moas with even more movement speed instead of slowing them to a crawl. Antimatter drops worked fine, but the bonus was not affecting molecular prime.

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12 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Why an invis specific drone? Shouldn't it be a blanket anti-survivability drone? Lots of frames have survivability skills on par with invis, why is it important only to impact a handful of those on the far squishier side? The effects would already be disproportionate towards the more caster-esque frames if applied to all due to their inherently lower stats as a result of their kit, what is the aim at focusing solely on those? 

Short answer is I wasn't thinking an invis nullifier  but just an enemy that can see invis. Something like the orbital strike drones from the vay hek fight except they would see invisible warframes. 

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9 minutes ago, Solarsyphon said:

Short answer is I wasn't thinking an invis nullifier  but just an enemy that can see invis. Something like the orbital strike drones from the vay hek fight except they would see invisible warframes. 

You do realize that invis frames have durability of a wet paper bag right?
Because tank frame meta was not strong enough yet in this mode I suppose.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Solarsyphon:

I love the drones. Only issue I've had is the weird limbo interactions. I'd like more types of drones. I think if there is a bunch each countering different common tactics I'd be very happy. My suggestions are :

Anti invis which reveals invis targets ( end the loki master race!) 

Invisibility which makes enemies invisible

Nullifier which has a nullifier bubble ( like from old LOR) 

Scramble the messes with the mini map ( like the propaganda drones)

Speed which speed up enemies ( arbiters should employ a speedva)

Slow which slows down warframes ( and a slowva) 

 

You don't get my point. It is fine that the drone is giving enemies in an AOE 100% dmg reduction. What i do have problem with is that you automatically put weaker frames at a disadvantage because abilities don't interact with the drone. With a nullifier i can jump into the bubble pop pop, dead. With the drone you have sometime up to 5-6 guys shooting at you while your aiming at the drone (drone dodges if not oneshot) and any frame not tanky enough will die. Or you have to go invisivble and play a very passive role. Either way if it stays that way it will distill a certain meta yet again just like with EOS. And i am not playing that anymore and i wonder why.

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Do the bonuses work on prime variants or do you have to roll a bonus specifically for the prime variant?

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14 minutes ago, GA-Bulletproof said:

You don't get my point. It is fine that the drone is giving enemies in an AOE 100% dmg reduction. What i do have problem with is that you automatically put weaker frames at a disadvantage because abilities don't interact with the drone. With a nullifier i can jump into the bubble pop pop, dead. With the drone you have sometime up to 5-6 guys shooting at you while your aiming at the drone (drone dodges if not oneshot) and any frame not tanky enough will die. Or you have to go invisivble and play a very passive role. Either way if it stays that way it will distill a certain meta yet again just like with EOS. And i am not playing that anymore and i wonder why.

 

17 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

You do realize that invis frames have durability of a wet paper bag right?
Because tank frame meta was not strong enough yet in this mode I suppose.

Guys I just want it to be hard. I like the drones specifically because they make you change how you play. So I want more varieties to change how you play in lots of ways. Invis is the same in every game mode it needs to shaken up once in a while. Metas are inevitable the only thing you can do is keep changing them and that requires variety which is what I'm trying to suggest. 

Edited by Solarsyphon

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From what I've played so far, I really like Arbitrations! There's definitely a sense of challenge there, and in many cases the random power bonuses to warframes and weapons feel amazing to put to use.

Bullet point list of things I like:

  • The mode in most cases feels like it presents a suitable level of risk.
  • The random bonuses can lead to crazy awesome stuff happening (+300% Power Strength Revenant on an Interception is monstrous)
  • This mode definitely seems to cater to endurance runners, who had been asking for that kind of gameplay to be brought back. I can't speak on behalf of that community, but I like how this mode encourages going the distance, without punishing players who choose shorter sessions.
  • The Vitus Essence drops are very much appreciated as a reliable, incremental means of obtaining rewards.
  • The Endo/Ayatan sculpture drops are a great alternative to Rathuum for Endo farming, thank you for adding that.

Bullet point list of criticisms/suggestions for improvement:

  • Some warframes don't really benefit much from power strength. In some cases, it might be better to instead give a bonus to power range or power duration.
  • Bonuses don't seem to apply to variants. For example, Nova Prime doesn't seem to benefit from +300% strength when it's marked for Nova.
  • Sometimes bonuses don't seem to apply, or at least not consistently. When I tried Nova on a +300% strength mission, her Molecular Prime doesn't seem to have been affected.
  • Putting mods as random drop table rewards I think sort of defeats the purpose of Vitus essence, i.e. a reliable, incremental progression scheme. Why not make all of the Arbitration mods purchaseable through Vitus Essence?
  • This mode is creating a huge drain on Ayatan stars at a time when many players are already running out of Amber stars. Wouldn't it be better to have the sculptures come pre-filled with stars, or alternatively to have a large amount of stars as a drop table reward?
  •  Despite the rebalances, some modes are still far quicker than others: from experience, Interception and Excavation bring the quickest rewards, and Defense is by far the slowest mode.
  • Host migrations can sometimes really mess up a mission.
  • Arbitration drones feel a bit cheap, and invalidate certain frames (Banshee can't really thrive when enemies can completely ignore her 3 and blow her up immediately). I can understand the reason behind having a mechanic that prevents AoE frames from just auto-killing everything in sight, but it still feels like a band-aid that has a lot of negative side-effects.

There's likely more to be said, but these are my first impressions from my first few hours with the mode. Kudos on the good work!

Edited by Teridax68
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I don't know that is it just me or the Defense titleset on Ceres cause a FPS drop. I'm not sure that the other titleset got this problem but it really give me a headache from FPS droping from 60 to ?? every fews seconds the whole mission.

Also the new drone is a bit broken when in a group with Ancient Healer. The healer provide ~90% dmg reduction to the drone while the drone kept an that entire group immune from dmg and warframe's ability. And when there's 3 drone and 5 Ancient healer in the same group at lvl ~150 is kind of imposible/ridiculously hard to kill.

I know that this type of mission is meant to be really hard, but for me specifically this mission type is more like "A weird hybrid between Onslaught and Endless Sortie with lots of annoying drone".

I'll be waiting for this game mode to be refine a  bit more and then start farming. Or if i really hate it, I'll still buy Adaptation from the market.

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