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DE, we're all expecting the Tau system to be nightmare difficulty, don't let us down


Myrkrvaldyr
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I'm not hoping for that at all, because "nightmare difficulty" in Warframe would basically just mean really high level enemies. This game is fundamentally unbalanced, so there's no alternative to this. Anything they try to do to make it difficult will be easily cheesed, and the only thing that it's going to result in is very restricted loadout choice and gameplay variety. This is not a good thing.

I'd rather the focus just be on making it fun and challenging, rather than trying to force it as the hardest thing ever.

Edited by AdunSaveMe
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Basically OP is just saying "hurr dur make Tau System only doable with my 10/10 cheesboy build so all the MR 20 and below game scrub leeches cannot do it. Because I is MR 25 you all r non elitist losers."

There are mechanical ways to make things frustrating such as invincibility frames. Just look at halo promethean knights from Halo 5 which is all artificial difficulty.

As far as things go, DE doesn't seem to be going down the direction of "you can only use XYZ and nothing else" so I honestly doubt it. Making it Operator Centric to piss everyone off is more likely.

Edited by Guest
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7 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I'm not hoping for that at all, because "nightmare difficulty" in Warframe would basically just mean really high level enemies. This game is fundamentally unbalanced, so there's no alternative to this. Anything they try to do to make it difficult will be easily cheesed, and the only thing that it's going to result in is very restricted loadout choice and gameplay variety. This is not a good thing.

I'd rather the focus just be on making it fun and challenging, rather than trying to force it as the hardest thing ever.

Well said

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The adaptation mechanic sentients have is pretty good. I'd like to see it more but its been kind of trivialised. Instead of removing the resistances  can we make void weps simply ignore it. I also kind of want it on Eidolons ( strip all resistance and just make it adapt). 

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Warframe is sunken deep in the currently trendy systemic game design, where you design games around systems, and not around entertaining gameplay. You might even argue Warframe popularized it. The Division, Destiny, World of WarCraft all follow now. Warframe is a game designed all around currencies, and it's core gameplay is "give the player something to do while they accumulate currency over time". It has to have the difficulty of Cookie Clicker, because otherwise it'll challenge the currency over time formula. I am not a fan of it, and weren't it for Warframe's stress relieving properties, I wouldn't be playing it. 

Take survival for example - every 5 minutes you get a reward. It's literally timed. Imo, it should be that you should scour the ship to find your rewards, with the map procedurally expanding, and placing reward caches in already explored areas over time. So you have to move around, you have to explore the ship. Or the mode should be about causing maximum mayhem to draw out a boss, which you defeat for your reward. The endless mechanic remains, but instead of tying it to a timer, you tie the rewards to the players' actions. Same holds true for defense and interception, although interception is by far the best designed endless mode in the game, because in it, your actions actually matter.

In order for it to be a challenge, Warframe needs to generally move away from this systemic design, and have the confidence to let players fail. To let them fail to earn enough resources, fail at opening a relic (relics should also get their own game mode, with unique enemies, but eh). Give us more bosses to fight and tie more of the reward system to defeating bosses.

Remember relics? How chaotic they are, and they were supposed to be challenging, but the only way to fail to open a relic was to play a sabotage before it was fixed and just run out of enemies to drop reactant...

Right now, Warfarme is a game where you set up macros on your mouse keys, and play it with one hand, just killing time while you passively accumulate more resources. This is why vacuum is so popular, and this is why DE refuses to make it a universal warframe passive.

So... yeah, no. Warframe's design philosophy dictates that it cannot be challenging. If a challenge appears, enjoy it, because in a few months, DE will give you the tool to trivialize it. You enjoy spy missions? Here's Ivara to remove all challenge from them. You enjoy ESO? Here's Equinox or Saryn or whatever. Gamers will always pick the dominant strategy, and DE loves always giving us the exact thing we need to erase all challenge from the game they've created.

Edited by PopGligor
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30 minutes ago, PopGligor said:

Take survival for example - every 5 minutes you get a reward. It's literally timed. Imo, it should be that you should scour the ship to find your rewards, with the map procedurally expanding, and placing reward caches in already explored areas over time. So you have to move around, you have to explore the ship. Or the mode should be about causing maximum mayhem to draw out a boss, which you defeat for your reward. The endless mechanic remains, but instead of tying it to a timer, you tie the rewards to the players' actions.

So a proper rogue-like/lite dungeon crawl/run?

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8 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I'm not hoping for that at all, because "nightmare difficulty" in Warframe would basically just mean really high level enemies. This game is fundamentally unbalanced, so there's no alternative to this. Anything they try to do to make it difficult will be easily cheesed, and the only thing that it's going to result in is very restricted loadout choice and gameplay variety. This is not a good thing.

I'd rather the focus just be on making it fun and challenging, rather than trying to force it as the hardest thing ever.

Can't agree more.

I sincerely hope that they do this.

47 minutes ago, PopGligor said:

-Snip-

And, whilst I think you're right, I also think that DE seems to agree with you. They mentioned that they wanted Arbitrations to actually get players to fail, right? Hopefully this is a sign of things to come.

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Difficulty needs to be creative, not lazy.

 

Lazy = just making mobs have more hp/more dmg and direct debuffs to you.

 

Creative would be something akin to raid bosses from other games. (not necessarily exactly how you would think, but, usually difficult, beefy, and have something remotely creative to them.)

 

Again, i'm not responsible to come up for ideas, but I can tell you right now just sponging up enemies and making me weaker is an incredibly lazy way to go about it, albeit necessary in some regard. It's also a bad decision because unless the mobs are 150+, it's not even going to remotely make a dent.

Edited by space_magician
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30 minutes ago, space_magician said:

Difficulty needs to be creative, not lazy.

Agree.

Tyl Regor and the hyena pack are planet bosses that are mildly entertaining to fight. No invulnerability cheese. Although the manics have it, they too are mildly fun. Nox and juggernauts get my nod as well.

other mechanics they could utilize:

The mastery tests have elements that should find their way into missions. 

The mechanic needed to make a  kuva guard/sentients vulnerable if it weren’t so god awful buggy with camera lock hfor kuva guard)

having to use tenno dash to evade some attack or gain position, say a weaponized version of a gaze that features recently.

DE is handing out morsels for the coming war, but incertainly hope sentients provide more nourishing battle.

 

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