Why don't Rivens track Disposition?

[Voltage]

16 minutes ago, ShimmerDoll said:

I wasted a lot of time and effort to get that arca plasmor one so i'm never touching rivens again. that nerf reminds me a lot of why i quit playing way back in 2014. I just can't invest time or even care about them or an aspect of a game that'll disregard the time and money i spent and leave me feeling cheated... again.  I had only used that gun on specific warframes too not all of them. I don't know why in terms of all gaming people never look at the time cost of our lives being alive and what nerfs and bad choices do to steal what we at the time thought was time well spent. 

Riven dispositions from the start were said to have changes made to them. If you invested in Riven mods expecting them to stay the same, you can only blame yourself for not researching what you invested into. You weren't cheated at all. The system was left untouched for quite a while yes, but it was always intended to change at some point, and it's better late than never.

I have invested an immense amount of Platinum into the system, and I don't mind the changes because I have anticipated them for 2 years.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Voltage

[TheResult]

49 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

What's the point in investing into rivens that may, completely at the whim of the developers, depreciate significantly in-value?

This is a question the players should have asked themselves back when the developers gave us Rivens and outright told us "these could depreciate significantly in value, because we plan to change them and that's the point of the system." But players didn't do that. The only thing players asked themselves was "how can I use this to minmax even harder? How can I use this to turn a massive profit?" This has always been true of changes to weapons, mods, and Warframes themselves, too; the balance is always changing, and sometimes the things you invest a lot into can become weaker.

As always, do not invest more time and/or money into something than you think will be worth it if the item's balance changes. If you feel like dropping 10 hours of Kuva farming would be made "pointless" by changes in Riven disposition, then don't. If this exact scenario would upset you, then don't.

DE shouldn't have to change their plans or completely ignore the point of Rivens just because players did this entirely to themselves.

[Nocontents]

I love the sweet, sweet tears of riven meta users.

[ReshyShira]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Riven dispositions from the start were said to have changes made to them. If you invested in Riven mods expecting them to stay the same, you can only blame yourself for not researching what you invested into. You weren't cheated at all. The system was left untouched for quite a while yes, but it was always intended to change at some point, and it's better late than never.

I have invested an immense amount of Platinum into the system, and I don't mind the changes because I have anticipated them for 2 years.

Problem is that's not how they turned out to actually work.  They change very suddenly, not over time.  Even then, why does disposition changing over time equate to retroactive changes to all rivens?

4 minutes ago, TheResult said:

There's nothing "sketchy" about telling players "we will do this" and then doing it.

It's not your fault for being a customer with a grievance, it's your fault for creating your own grievance entirely through ignorance.

It's sketchy to retroactively change people's items, changing dispositions are fine... why is it a retroactive change to all rivens?

1 minute ago, Nocontents said:

I love the sweet, sweet tears of riven meta users.

I don't really understand why this makes you happy other than to validate sour grapes?

[TheResult]

1 minute ago, Nocontents said:

I love the sweet, sweet tears of riven meta users.

I mean, there's more than one "riven meta user" on the forum here saying "I invested into Rivens, too, but I'm not mad because I knew this was going to happen." I don't delight in these people "losing out on their investment", I just think it's ridiculous that there are people here blaming DE for a problem they-- the players-- created for themselves. They should just own up to it like the others.

[Nocontents]

2 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

I don't really understand why this makes you happy other than to validate sour grapes?

Because DE specially said that Riven disposition was going to change based on user bases?

And ppl still used meta riven *KNOWING* that disposition will be changed because of meta?

And now you're crying the river despite that everybody else saw this miles ago?

 

[TheResult]

7 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

It's sketchy to retroactively change people's items, changing dispositions are fine... why is it a retroactive change to all rivens?

That's not sketchy at all; it's exactly like making balance changes to pre-existing weapons/mods/warframes. This has always been true of the game. When they make a change to a Warframe, you don't get to ignore the changes just because you invested a couple hundred platinum on the Prime variant or poured hours into farming the Prime parts.

Edited November 9, 2018 by TheResult

[rune_me]

2 hours ago, ReshyShira said:

I dunno, which is worse:  To reward players who invested time and kuva back when the disposition was really high with a riven that remains god tier to this day, or do you punish players who invested time and kuva back when the disposition was really high with a riven that's pretty meh these days?

 

Personally, I'd err on the side on "make players feel like their investment matters".

Investment means taking a chance. That's implied by the word. You buy stocks not because you know they are valuable, but because you hope they will one day be. You invest in a start-up because you hope it will become successful. You invest time and/or plat in a riven, hoping that your investment will be worth it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes that start-up fails or those stocks tanks. 

You just invested poorly. I invested in rivens that had low disposition. Now some of them got their disposition increased, so they have become more valuable. My investment paid off, and to use your own words, it does indeed feel like my "investment matters".

Don't blame others for your bad investment. That's on you and you alone.

[ReshyShira]

7 minutes ago, TheResult said:

I mean, there's more than one "riven meta user" on the forum here saying "I invested into Rivens, too, but I'm not mad because I knew this was going to happen." I don't delight in these people "losing out on their investment", I just think it's ridiculous that there are people here blaming DE for a problem they-- the players-- created for themselves. They should just own up to it like the others.

I dunno about you, but as far as I know players don't choose the stats on the rivens, DE does.  And DE is more than willing to play favorites (see Detron, Kohm).

 

7 minutes ago, Nocontents said:

Because DE specially said that Riven disposition was going to change based on user bases?

And ppl still used meta riven *KNOWING* that disposition will be changed because of meta?

And now you're crying the river despite that everybody else saw this miles ago?

Okay, and they can change the future drop rates to reflect changing times, not invalidate everyone who already has an established build reliant on what the riven's stats were prior to the dispo change.  Plus, why nerf rivens that are for guns that nobody uses except with a riven?  Makes no sense to me, making a weak gun usable should be the goal of the riven, and it shouldn't cause the disposition to take a hit for it.

 

4 minutes ago, TheResult said:

That's not sketchy at all; it's exactly like making balance changes to pre-existing weapons/mods/warframes. This has always been true of the game. When they make a change to a Warframe, you don't get to ignore the changes just because you invested a couple hundred platinum on the Prime variant or poured hours into farming the Prime parts.

And people get upset over the unnecessary Tonkor nerf that utterly ruined the weapon.  But here's the thing:  The tonkor isn't something bought and traded for with platinum, Rivens however are so it's comparing celery to apples.

 

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

Investment means taking a chance. That's implied by the word. You buy stocks not because you know they are valuable, but because you hope they will one day be. You invest in a start-up because you hope it will become successful. You invest time and/or plat in a riven, hoping that your investment will be worth it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes that start-up fails or those stocks tanks. 

You just invested poorly. I invested in rivens that had low disposition. Now some of them got their disposition increased, so they have become more valuable. My investment paid off, and to use your own words, it does indeed feel like my "investment matters".

Don't blame others for your bad investment. That's on you and you alone.

Okay, but if the government comes in and seizes your stocks, that's the same thing right?  DE's effectively the government for rivens, and they choose who wins and loses, this time they decided that pretty much everyone but the Kohm and Detron lose.

Additionally, when I say investment I mean time and money investment, since rolling rivens takes kuva, upgrading them takes endo, and purchasing them takes plat.  That's a lot of things that you're tinkering around with when you do riven disposition changes.  Generally speaking, players don't like when the developers of a game swoop in and take away their money.

[Nocontents]

1 minute ago, ReshyShira said:

Okay, and they can change the future drop rates to reflect changing times, not invalidate everyone who already has an established build reliant on what the riven's stats were prior to the dispo change.  Plus, why nerf rivens that are for guns that nobody uses except with a riven?  Makes no sense to me, making a weak gun usable should be the goal of the riven, and it shouldn't cause the disposition to take a hit for it.

Name one(1)(uno)(un) weapon which has been destroyed because riven is out of option.

Name ONE single weapon which isn't viable because of dispo change.

[_xci_]

5 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

Okay, but if the government comes in and seizes your stocks, that's the same thing right?  DE's effectively the government for rivens, and they choose who wins and loses, this time they decided that pretty much everyone but the Kohm and Detron lose.

What? Did DE delete your riven? And DE has a right to control and balance riven. They are develper after all.

[ReshyShira]

5 minutes ago, Nocontents said:

Name one(1)(uno)(un) weapon which has been destroyed because riven is out of option.

Name ONE single weapon which isn't viable because of dispo change.

I'd need to go crunch the numbers for which rivens no longer push a weapon into semi-reliable orange crits or 100% status again, it's late and I do need sleep.

Just now, _xci_ said:

What? Did DE delete your riven? And DE has a right to control and balance riven. They are develper after all.

Delete?  No.  Make far less valuable?  Yes.  Why couldn't they just have updated future riven drops and kept the old ones as is to not upset the players already invested into the rivens?

[Gerdaro]

Please, what is riven disposition? (no irony)

[rune_me]

7 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

Okay, but if the government comes in and seizes your stocks, that's the same thing right?  DE's effectively the government for rivens, and they choose who wins and loses, this time they decided that pretty much everyone but the Kohm and Detron lose.

They didn't seize anything. They affected the value of what you have. That's no different than if a government passes a new tax on, say steel important, that will affect the value of a lot of stocks on the market. You know in advance that that's a possibility, so you evaluate the risk. Same as you knew in advance that DE could change the disposition. 

As an example, investing heavily in a Tiberon riven would have been dumb, because anyone could see that they would nerf the disposition once they got around to it. That was a given. That would be a poor investment. 

14 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

Additionally, when I say investment I mean time and money investment, since rolling rivens takes kuva, upgrading them takes endo, and purchasing them takes plat.  That's a lot of things that you're tinkering around with when you do riven disposition changes.  Generally speaking, players don't like when the developers of a game swoop in and take away their money.

But they didn't take away my money. Like I said, I invested in low disposition rivens which has now become more valuable. I made plat because of the changes. You lost it, because you invested poorly, not because DE took away your money.

[Nocontents]

2 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

I'd need to go crunch the numbers for which rivens no longer push a weapon into semi-reliable orange crits or 100% status again, it's late and I do need sleep.

Congratulations. Now, your weapon will kill Teralyst 2 shots instead of 1.

[Ohmlink]

21 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

 

Your rivens were not seized, you still have access to it. You are also able to rade said riven at your leisure.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Ohmlink

[Nocontents]

2 minutes ago, Gerdaro said:

Please, what is riven disposition? (no irony)

It determines how much stat rivin mod will have. Low disposition rivin will have low percentage of stat increase while high disposition rivin will have higher stat increase.

[Gerdaro]

1 minute ago, Nocontents said:

It determines how much stat rivin mod will have. Low disposition rivin will have low percentage of stat increase while high disposition rivin will have higher stat increase.

and how do you know if a riven disposition is high or low?

[ReshyShira]

8 minutes ago, rune_me said:

They didn't seize anything. They affected the value of what you have. That's no different than if a government passes a new tax on, say steel important, that will affect the value of a lot of stocks on the market. You know in advance that that's a possibility, so you evaluate the risk. Same as you knew in advance that DE could change the disposition. 

As an example, investing heavily in a Tiberon riven would have been dumb, because anyone could see that they would nerf the disposition once they got around to it. That was a given. That would be a poor investment. 

But they didn't take away my money. Like I said, I invested in low disposition rivens which has now become more valuable. I made plat because of the changes. You lost it, because you invested poorly, not because DE took away your money.

That doesn't mean the businesses don't get upset, that doesn't mean it can't or won't hurt businesses, to follow same analogy, just replace the nouns.  

 

6 minutes ago, Ohmlink said:

Your rivens were not seized, you still have access to it. You are also able to rade said riven at your leisure.

They were seized and replaced by ones of lesser value.

Edited November 9, 2018 by ReshyShira

[Nocontents]

3 minutes ago, Gerdaro said:

and how do you know if a riven disposition is high or low?

it shows in weapon description?

[Erytroxylin]

Because that's not the purpose of Rivens. The purpose of Rivens is to be a boost that changes based on weapon popularitu/strength.

[Atsia]

3 minutes ago, Gerdaro said:

and how do you know if a riven disposition is high or low?

The weapon will generally have 5 dots on it's stats page. The riven disposition is how many of the 5 dots are filled.

[TheResult]

Just now, ReshyShira said:

I dunno about you, but as far as I know players don't choose the stats on the rivens, DE does.  And DE is more than willing to play favorites (see Detron, Kohm).

Different complaint for a different thread. If you disagree with DE's choice in which Rivens were affected, that's something else; the point being made, however, is not that DE "did the stat changes wrong", it's that they made stat changes at all and the players complained because of their "investments" (which they chose to impose on themselves.)

5 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

And people get upset over the unnecessary Tonkor nerf that utterly ruined the weapon.  But here's the thing:  The tonkor isn't something bought and traded for with platinum, Rivens however are so it's comparing celery to apples.

It's... definitely not comparing "celery to apples", because I literally said "prime parts". You know, because those are also traded for with platinum. Apples and apples.

But just to clarify: you would prefer them to nerf the weapon itself, even though it would mean the exact same DPS decrease, instead of touching the Riven?
That's the distinction you want to make here? "Never change anything we can spend platinum on"?

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

There's buffs as well as nerfs, you know?

I can't believe anyone would want to miss out on riven buffs which is what the OP is suggesting.

Sure, nerfs suck. But look on the bright side instead.

[Nocontents]

4 minutes ago, ReshyShira said:

They were seized and replaced by ones of lesser value.

DE din't dealt the cards. You played the game and you lost. Simple as that.

Why is this so hard to understand?

You made a investment in meta riven, and you enjoyed. Many has.

And now, update happens and disposition gots updated.

Surprise, surprise. Because of how many ppl used the riven, disposition changed.

And somehow this is up to debate?