I spoke too soon.

[Tyreaus]

Going to level with you, OP:

Despite the uproar, they've effectively done this before. They did it with Ember. People bought Ember Prime with real money. They made her less effective with nerfs.

This isn't some "low blow" or some underhanded tactic to steal money from players. It's not disrespect. This is how video game balance works. It can't always be buffs.

(Putting the rant in spoiler tags: )

Spoiler

I'm actually getting sick of the tone of these threads. I get people are upset over these changes, and I have my own bag of mixed opinions about the entire Riven system. It's understandable. But for the love of the Void, this whole thing is over balance changes. People are going beyond simply being upset and outright losing trust in a company that's balancing its game? For real? Actually take a moment to stop and consider that.

Also, while I'm ranting: this period of people being upset is pretty much the perfect time to unify and fix the Riven system from the ground-up in a way that benefits everyone. You want to make all Rivens completely broken and remove them from balance considerations? Maybe make it so that playing with people without Rivens equipped disables or nerfs them temporarily so you don't ruin their experience but can get together with buddies or go solo and wreck everything still? You want to use some alternate method of encouraging the use of under-utilized weapons because the Riven system is an abysmal failure in that endeavour? Then demand it, precisely, upfront, no pretense. Stop dancing around it. Stop treating the issue like "regular" feedback and moderating your demands. Stop being "y u do dis" and "how could you" and "everyone's gonna leave now" and "what about the monie". You don't need rhetorical questions, you don't even need explanations from the devs over "why".

If you're upset and you're making a fuss about it, use the spotlight while you have it. Otherwise you're just crying for the sake of crying.

And:

3 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Good thing is in another game that I play, they always fully refund all players whenever nerfs hit their items (well it is not really refund because players keep their nerfed items but get full price return in back up currency equivalent to the main premium currency which can be used to get premium items like premium currency.) 

I'd like to know whether this game you play does this for traded items and, if so, how they sort out costs without global pricing (a given Riven doesn't have a set price).

[Oberick]

The whole point of riven's is their power is based on popularity/usage.  If the changes end up making ur weapon one of the least used eventually ur riven will get buffed again.

[Volinus7]

19 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Going to level with you, OP:

Despite the uproar, they've effectively done this before. They did it with Ember. People bought Ember Prime with real money. They made her less effective with nerfs.

This isn't some "low blow" or some underhanded tactic to steal money from players. It's not disrespect. This is how video game balance works. It can't always be buffs.

(Putting the rant in spoiler tags: )

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm actually getting sick of the tone of these threads. I get people are upset over these changes, and I have my own bag of mixed opinions about the entire Riven system. It's understandable. But for the love of the Void, this whole thing is over balance changes. People are going beyond simply being upset and outright losing trust in a company that's balancing its game? For real? Actually take a moment to stop and consider that.

Also, while I'm ranting: this period of people being upset is pretty much the perfect time to unify and fix the Riven system from the ground-up in a way that benefits everyone. You want to make all Rivens completely broken and remove them from balance considerations? Maybe make it so that playing with people without Rivens equipped disables or nerfs them temporarily so you don't ruin their experience but can get together with buddies or go solo and wreck everything still? You want to use some alternate method of encouraging the use of under-utilized weapons because the Riven system is an abysmal failure in that endeavour? Then demand it, precisely, upfront, no pretense. Stop dancing around it. Stop treating the issue like "regular" feedback and moderating your demands. Stop being "y u do dis" and "how could you" and "everyone's gonna leave now" and "what about the monie". You don't need rhetorical questions, you don't even need explanations from the devs over "why".

If you're upset and you're making a fuss about it, use the spotlight while you have it. Otherwise you're just crying for the sake of crying.

And:

I'd like to know whether this game you play does this for traded items and, if so, how they sort out costs without global pricing (a given Riven doesn't have a set price).

No trading in that game.

 

Btw, it's a very old knowledge among early mmos that trading of premium currency/items brings troubles (obvious cases shown in D3 AH and Warframe). 

[Althaline]

I don't see why people are so surprised when DE does the things they promised they would do. If anything, the riven rebalance has taken too long to come.

The only issue I have with dispositions is the weapons that end up at 1. A riven should perform like a drain 18 mod, even at its worst. It shouldn't require a god roll just to outperform Auger Pact.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, MattM01 said:

(My Disclaimer should have made it clear)I didn't spend tons of money, no where close, maybe 500plat since Rivens were released. I did spend a lot of time farming for Kuva. Well these changes are the kinds of changes that push people away from the game. Activision/Blizzard just learned that as well as EA Games in the past. I hope for the sake of the game that people don't get discouraged and leave. To be so arrogant to think that some people won't stop playing the game due to this change or other drastic changes in the game on this or a higher level is dangerous to say the least. I'm not upset as much as I am worried that if they continue actions such as these then no one will trust Warframe enough to put any real short to long term effort into it and the game will tank. I hope not.

You don't seem to understand. The entire point of the Riven system was that they could constantly rebalance it via disposition adjustments. It's just that DE forgot about it for a long time, long enough for players to falsely assume that the dispositions would never be touched again.

TBH I have hard time feeling it for anyone who think they got screwed after heavily investing into something that was designed to change constantly.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Guest

[TheResult]

5 hours ago, MattM01 said:

I am not asking an explanation from any players b/c this is directed right at The Devs.

There's a "Contact Us" link right at the bottom of the page.

[(PSN)wolf-MAN010]

is it the end of the world b/c your riven isn’t good anymore

[Veridian]

The only thing DE is guilty of is not fixing disposition earlier.

Do you think they should have kept the disposition of the current rivens and changed it only for new ones? Imagine the prices then.

You are also protecting a system that in its iteration was extremely flawed. Good disposition for god tier weapons went against everything the system was about. 

Do you care more about the health of the game or your virtual items that for whatever reason justify your self-worth? 

They are still a unique form of customization at the end of the day.

[Rayden_Tenno]

I wish they'd do this every month.

[Leland_Gaunt]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Rayden_Tenno:

I wish they'd do this every month.

That's exactly what they should do.

[Tyreaus]

7 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

No trading in that game.

 

Btw, it's a very old knowledge among early mmos that trading of premium currency/items brings troubles (obvious cases shown in D3 AH and Warframe). 

Then it's really an apples / oranges thing. It's a mobile game, so what's their monetization scheme? Do they use ads, do they time-gate players? What are their expenses like for development and updates? Even if you were to transpose the system, could it keep up Warframe? If not, what would have to be sacrificed?

While I don't think it's a good idea for burgeoning games / developers to allow trade of premium currency, making that kind of adjustment now seems pretty untenable (and also makes refunding completely unnecessary in the vast majority of cases). Slots would have to go and I'm sure people would be happy enough about that, but it removes a swath of Plat sinks: the people who wouldn't pay real-world dollars but can still spend the currency. That is, to say the least, a very painful transition.

Also, what counts as "premium items" for Warframe? If we were to ditch Plat trading, Rivens seem like the next replacement—and nerfs are still going to cause a problem there because some currency ends up devaluing in the process. If we allowed that to happen, what refund do they get (how do you refund a dollar with certainty)? Or do they count as premium and shouldn't be traded?

[Chappie]

10 hours ago, MattM01 said:

I'm not upset as much as I am worried that actions like these will push people away from this game.

If a person quits over this...I doubt they were actually genuinely invested (emotionally or financially) in this game.

I have both God Tier Lanka and Rubico rivens....they are still great weapons with and without the rivens.    I don't think a single one of my riven's weapons really feels any different.  Maybe if i spent time whacking 160 mobs in the sim room I might notice a slight difference in TTK.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Chappie1975

[Volinus7]

2 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Then it's really an apples / oranges thing. It's a mobile game, so what's their monetization scheme? Do they use ads, do they time-gate players? What are their expenses like for development and updates? Even if you were to transpose the system, could it keep up Warframe? If not, what would have to be sacrificed?

While I don't think it's a good idea for burgeoning games / developers to allow trade of premium currency, making that kind of adjustment now seems pretty untenable (and also makes refunding completely unnecessary in the vast majority of cases). Slots would have to go and I'm sure people would be happy enough about that, but it removes a swath of Plat sinks: the people who wouldn't pay real-world dollars but can still spend the currency. That is, to say the least, a very painful transition.

Also, what counts as "premium items" for Warframe? If we were to ditch Plat trading, Rivens seem like the next replacement—and nerfs are still going to cause a problem there because some currency ends up devaluing in the process. If we allowed that to happen, what refund do they get (how do you refund a dollar with certainty)? Or do they count as premium and shouldn't be traded?

It's the difference between games, that game treats free part of F2P as a try mode or a clear threshold to separate trying players from paid players while Warframe tends to meld freebies(different subset from trying players) with paid players. It's just amazing that they always return the cost of nerfed items, a very rare sight among F2P(of course they did it to improve their public image lol). 

[Goodwill]

3 hours ago, Chappie1975 said:

If a person quits over this...I doubt they were actually genuinely invested (emotionally or financially) in this game.

Gonna quote for emphasis because it's true.

[Peter]

Posting 

13 hours ago, MattM01 said:

(Disclaimer Yes I know that every part of Warframe can be changed and nothing is solid and in concrete. Okay now that's cleared away)Some of us actually got lucky with our rivens and got them from sorties and rolled them time and time again through countless Kuva Farming. Riven dispositions were added to help balance the Rivens which was a good thing, I had no problem with that. Yet to nerf Rivens that people either earned through sorties, bought with plat, or put money into "Your Game" in order to purchase plat and buy a riven is kind of a low and disrespectful blow to the player community. Yes some were selling some rivens for obscene amounts of plat, but what about the players who actually earned those rivens through chance and took their time to farm Kuva to roll their perfect chance role? What do they get? I am not asking an explanation from any players b/c this is directed right at The Devs. I still love your game but when you do something like this it seems desperate and that shows poorly in my eyes and maybe other's eyes. We don't even get any compensation other than some Rivens were given a buff so hope we have those, hope we get those, or hope we can buy those. It just seems quite disrespectful. I will always play your game b/c it is great but more moves like this and I'm not sure as many people will be as patient as I/others am/are.

Stop giving audiences to the trolls, you will not achieve anything with this disgusting community, only those who bought rivens will understand.

My advice? do not buy more Rivens, let the DE feel in the pocket what they did bringing back this archaic system.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

13 hours ago, MattM01 said:

I'm not upset as much as I am worried that actions like these will push people away from this game.

If a balance change to a (quite frankly) optional mod choice drives anyone from the game, that says much more about them than DE

[UrielColtan]

Rivens are not obligated to be traded for plat. You agree to do so at your own risk.

[Tricky5hift]

Lol the idea that Rivens dispositions were always going to remain the same is laughable.

This whole system completely warps the meta so of course they are going to be a topic of interest for the development team.

[Spectre-8]

Moral of the story ?

Don't get too confortable 😄

[Goodwill]

4 hours ago, Peter said:

Posting 

Stop giving audiences to the trolls, you will not achieve anything with this disgusting community, only those who bought rivens will understand.

My advice? do not buy more Rivens, let the DE feel in the pocket what they did bringing back this archaic system.

Majority of people who buy rivens use traded plat. DE makes most of their money from Prime Access or discount coupons which people would buy regardless of rivens. Not to mention forma, slots and boosters. Could also throw Tennogen and Warframe/weapon/cosmetic bundles in there as well. So I doubt DE would be hurt at all if people were to stop charging plat for rivens.

[Birkenhoff]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb Volinus7:

Good thing is in another game that I play, they always fully refund all players whenever nerfs hit their items (well it is not really refund because players keep their nerfed items but get full price return in back up currency equivalent to the main premium currency which can be used to get premium items like premium currency.) 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(it's even a mobile game.) 

(lol) 

What game are you talking about? It's not a game that refounds items which are traded between players. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(lol)

[_xci_]

5 hours ago, Peter said:

Posting 

Stop giving audiences to the trolls, you will not achieve anything with this disgusting community, only those who bought rivens will understand.

My advice? do not buy more Rivens, let the DE feel in the pocket what they did bringing back this archaic system.

Apparently everyone who disagree with you is a troll.

[rune_me]

6 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

It's the difference between games, that game treats free part of F2P as a try mode or a clear threshold to separate trying players from paid players while Warframe tends to meld freebies(different subset from trying players) with paid players. It's just amazing that they always return the cost of nerfed items, a very rare sight among F2P(of course they did it to improve their public image lol). 

CD Project Red refunds the scrap value of cards you've build in Gwent, when they make major changes to the card. They don't give you money back of course, but they give you the ingame currency you spend on the card (if you want to refund it). Not with minor tweaks, though, only "rework" level nerfs.

[rune_me]

5 hours ago, Peter said:

Posting 

Stop giving audiences to the trolls, you will not achieve anything with this disgusting community, only those who bought rivens will understand.

My advice? do not buy more Rivens, let the DE feel in the pocket what they did bringing back this archaic system.

I bought (and sold) plenty rivens, and I'm happy about the changes. Hell, I'm pretty sure I made plat on this change since some of my rivens just got more valuable.

[LarryYourWaiter]

Your complaint is that rivens are working exactly as they are intended to work?