M.O.V.G.A. (Make Orb Vallis Great Again)

[Loza03]

Honestly, I never felt the challenge came from the regular enemies. Sure they hit like a truck, but they were easily disposed of anyway. The Mini-bosses were where it was at, and they seem to have been totally untouched, with regular enemies mostly serving as sources of CC that were pretty much a minor annoyance in most cases. The only exception were the bounce bombs in enclosed spaces, and I'd consider that as poor enemy design because hard-to-dodge, high-damage CC attacks that to my knowledge couldn't be evaded are just cheap damage. Lowering the damage to peanuts for them feels reasonable since now they're a disruptive influence that can exemplify nearby threats (thus making the nearby enemies more threatening).

With the Mini-bosses eating plenty of damage and dishing out plenty as well, I feel like the Vallis provides a distinct experience of its own.

[disco_inferno6]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

Ok but what are you asking for then? 

haha you and the OP...basically saying 'we don't want it to be like endgame' 'or too hard for anyone but vets' etc but it's not engaging.

So...what are you arguing about then? Concisely, explain what it is you what.

 

It's there in the initial post.

Pre hotfix: "not too hard, not too easy". So we found the bounties engaging, not endgame.

 

Post hotfitx, the enemies and bounties are TOO easy. Non-engaging. You can play them with your eyes closed.

Edited November 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[pig666eon]

5 minutes ago, KommandantViy said:

Except DE have said from the beginning for both PoE and now Fortuna that these open world areas are *not* supposed to be some new meta endgame, and are most certainly not just supposed to be for experienced players.

you just going to skip over the fact that there is 5 levels of bountys? no one said fortuna is end game, people are complaining that the highest level of bountys is being brought down to cater to casuals when there is bountys available to even the newest of players there already. right now fortuna is open to everyone to play there is nothing stopping people to play and having the level 5 bounty hard wasnt stopping anyone from playing it. if your new then go get geared up by playing the actual game not just dlc and come back when your ready to do hard missions. the level 5 bounty was the only thing remotely challenging about the bountys for me or anyone else who isnt brand new to the game but thats now not the case so bountys 1-5 is now just fodder and mst of us are just going through the motions now to get either standings or rewards

[SneakyErvin]

The real threat should be in the alert levels, so their changes to these trash mobs seem alright to me.

I havent noticed much difficulty in Vallis anyways until hitting alert level 4 and keeping it going for a while. Things get a bit overwhelming at times when you have several hyenas, jackals and orbs in the area at the same time along with a bunch of trash.

[DeaHamlet]

I don't really see a difference. Randos still fail, mostly because of lack of patience and any idea about strategic gameplay. And then they get rewarded with full 4 beacons up (alarms yay) and proceed to non-stop die and get carried.

 

Happened before change, happened after. I was in no danger of dying other than to my own stupidity before or after change. 

 

Not sure why OP exists. 

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

28 minutes ago, disco_inferno6 said:

 

It's there in the initial post.

Pre hotfix: "not too hard, not too easy". So we found the bounties engaging, not endgame.

 

Post hotfitx, the enemies and bounties are TOO easy. Non-engaging. You can play them with your eyes closed.

Good row back there... because you also said this in response to some long time players:

"My dudes, no offence to your ability as players

but this game has a dedicated fanbase

more dedicated than you (or perhaps even me).

I'm not saying that your opinion doesn't matter. Quite the contrary.

But I think you got caught in that phrase and miss the point of what it is that I'm describing in the initial post.

 

Those players that I'm talking about (and believe me, there are a lot of them) want a challenge. And it is the challenge that makes us better."

SO here you say that you want the content to be challenging to end game players yes? But your first post claims, 'not too hard' but at the same time you concede that it should be accessible for new players? But challenging for you? That's more challenge than these long time players want?

Do you see why people are confused as to what you want? You argue one way or the other depending on who is talking to you. Why don't you just make one concise statement and then  stick to that? 

 

 

[disco_inferno6]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

Good row back there... because you also said this in response to some long time players:

"My dudes, no offence to your ability as players

but this game has a dedicated fanbase

more dedicated than you (or perhaps even me).

I'm not saying that your opinion doesn't matter. Quite the contrary.

But I think you got caught in that phrase and miss the point of what it is that I'm describing in the initial post.

 

Those players that I'm talking about (and believe me, there are a lot of them) want a challenge. And it is the challenge that makes us better."

SO here you say that you want the content to be challenging to end game players yes? But your first post claims, 'not too hard' but at the same time you concede that it should be accessible for new players? But challenging for you? That's more challenge than these long time players want?

Do you see why people are confused as to what you want? You argue one way or the other depending on who is talking to you. Why don't you just make one concise statement and then  stick to that? 

 

 

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps it is confusing the way I put it.

 

Dedicated players usually have all gear so their judgement may be a little clearer.

However, I was thinking the same even when I was new in the game.

It's the experience that kept me here.

I'm not suggesting that the fortuna should become inaccessible to newcomers.

Nor am I suggesting that by having increased difficulty should result in an increase in grind requirements from bounty 5 for example.

 

I'm simply noting that the gameplay in Bounties 4 or 5 was engaging pre-hotfix)

while now it is too easy.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I swear De needs a Veteran's star chart separate from the Origin one...like how Lua and Earth are separated...

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

1 minute ago, disco_inferno6 said:

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps it is confusing the way I put it.

What I am saying is that not all players want an easy grind for the gear.

Dedicated players usually have all gear so their judgement may be a little clearer.

But to be frank, I was thinking like this even when I started playing.

It's the experience that matters. Not the stuff I got.

 

But then, I see this compliant alot.

Isn't most things in this game easy when you have a 3 forma rhino prime, with a 5 forma arca plasmor with maxxed primed mods?

What do you expect? It's easy for you. But I would say these bounties should be doable by 7+ MR right? Because you need the drops and the mods.

 

I think super meta players need some perspective - Your Arca Plasmor meta, BFG annihilator build is of course going to steam roll everything. But you can't expect this to be a requirement to play some content in the new open world (selling point for new players). 

[disco_inferno6]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

But then, I see this compliant alot.

Isn't most things in this game easy when you have a 3 forma rhino prime, with a 5 forma arca plasmor with maxxed primed mods?

What do you expect? It's easy for you. But I would say these bounties should be doable by 7+ MR right? Because you need the drops and the mods.

 

I think super meta players need some perspective - Your Arca Plasmor meta, BFG annihilator build is of course going to steam roll everything. But you can't expect this to be a requirement to play some content in the new open world (selling point for new players). 

 

People that are against what I'm saying in this post, tend to view things in black and white on the subjectmatter.

.

I'm not saying that the whole game or all bounties in Orb Vallis should be more engaging.

I'm saying that bounty 4 or 5 should be.

Otherwise, what is the point to progress in the game and become better ?

 

I mean, that is precisely the reason that I only built zaws for the mastery but NEVER LOOKED INTO them.

And I'm the kind of player who used to meticulously calculate numbers before deploying a strat.

But I don't see the reason doing that anymore.

The game is just too easy.

Edited November 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[Darkuhn]

The Enemies that spawned when you held Max Wanted level for a while were a blast to fight, I got my ass handed to me several times and had to extract with my last life with my Nekros Farm build. And that hadn't happened in a long time.

The harder Enemies made farming for the Vox Solaris Torids much more entertaining 😊 

[Am0rph15]

4 hours ago, disco_inferno6 said:

Fortuna: Hotfix 24.0.4

Orb Vallis Enemy Changes:
Orb Vallis mission and Vox Solaris quest data showed that certain Terra enemy types were not on par with other Corpus enemies, causing an unintentional difficulty spike, especially noticed with lower level players. The following Terra enemies have received damage reductions to improve the balance between Orb Vallis enemies:

• Lowered Terra Plasmor Crewman base damage from 30 to 25.
• Lowered Terra Raptor SX base damage from 30 to 25 and base area damage from 75 to 40.
• Lowered Terra Embattor MOA bounce mine damage from 150 to 75.
• Lowered Terra Sniper Crewman base damage from 60 to 45.
• Lowered Terra Overtaker base damage from 120 to 60 and area damage from 50 to 25.
• Lowered Terra Jailer area damage from 50 to 20.

 

 

Orb Vallis gameplay (particularly in top the tier bounty) was actually engaging before that hotfix. The game felt alive. Not too hard, not too easy. Just the right amount.

By reducing the damage of those enemies, the difference is noticed immediately.

Yes, I understand that new players need to be able to participate but the reason we all loved Warframe and stuck to it for all those years

is precisely because of that spike in difficulty. It's precisely the reason why we all tried to improve and learn more about the game and its mechanics.

To be able to survive in conditions that we thought were impossible.

Please review the dmg numbers or at least, review the enemy levels in Bounty 4 and especially 5. it was actually very well balanced.

Now it's too easy.

 

With respect

 

I suspect commercial realities have a bearing here. The greater the number of players who can enter Fortuna - and stay because they're able to defeat enemies rather than getting an a*s whupping and departing - the greater the likelihood that items that have appeared with Fortuna such as Garuda, moa pets, K-drives, kit-guns and so on will be bought with Platinum, prompting first-time or top-up Platinum purchases. DE is a business, after all.

P.S. I have no objective stats, but intuition suggests that DE must make most Platinum sales to newer players since longer-established players will likely have amassed items of value, including vaulted 'frames and weapons, to sell for Platinum; hence newer players are more attractive from a financial perspective.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Am0rph15
P.S.

[DreisterDino]

vor einer Stunde schrieb KommandantViy:

Except DE have said from the beginning for both PoE and now Fortuna that these open world areas are *not* supposed to be some new meta endgame, and are most certainly not just supposed to be for experienced players.

Have they been the "new meta Endgame" before the Hotfix? No. we are not asking for endgame, we didnt even use that term until you guys used it.

In a topic where a player asked about what the Meta for Fortuna Bountys is everyone answered something like

"play whatever you want, everything works" , "just take a weapon with gas and you be fine" , "the same frame as everywhere else are viable"

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb (XB1)Clockwork Geoff:

haha you and the OP...basically saying 'we don't want it to be like endgame' 'or too hard for anyone but vets' etc but it's not engaging.

So...what are you arguing about then? Concisely, explain what it is you what.

Are you even reading? i think i have been more than clear about what i want in this topic.

But i can repeat myself once again although this unnecessary bloats this topic..

 

- somewhat engaging gameplay in which you have to try just a little bit to actually recieve the bonus

- not a boring snoozefest in which 3 people can go mine and fish while 1 person is doing the bounty

- simply the gameplay we had before the patch

- if that prepatch gameplay was something you could call endgame, why have there been any topics in this forum or youtubers making videos with titles like "finally the endgame we always wanted" "Warframe has Endgame now" and so on? so could you plz stop saying we are asking for endgame when we only want the prepatch gameplay with stronger enemies in 1 out of 5 bountys at least?

 

Zitat

 

Those players that I'm talking about (and believe me, there are a lot of them) want a challenge. And it is the challenge that makes us better."

SO here you say that you want the content to be challenging to end game players yes?

 

Why does "challenge" become "endgame" automatically?

The pre patch version of the Bounty was in a good spot between this.

It was not like something like Raids or Eidolons which comes closest to the term Endgame in Warframe and where people are forced to bring very specific loadouts and play in a very specific way to make it through, you could make it with everything. Still it was not tooo easy so it gets boring.

 

Zitat

 

Isn't most things in this game easy when you have a 3 forma rhino prime, with a 5 forma arca plasmor with maxxed primed mods?

I think super meta players need some perspective - Your Arca Plasmor meta, BFG annihilator build is of course going to steam roll everything. But you can't expect this to be a requirement to play some content in the new open world (selling point for new players). 

 

Why do make this stuff up?

This is simply not true.

Where did we need a "3 forma rhino prime with a 5 forma arca plasmor with maxxed primed mods" to succeed in the Bountys?

That simply wasnt the case at all.

Edited November 13, 2018 by DreisterDino

[Gabbynaru]

So, enemies that were absolutely no challenge to anyone at endgame got a bit easier for newcomers, and your answer is to complain? Grow up, people. Inclusion is good. These enemies were easy, them being a bit easier makes literally no difference for anyone who knows what they're doing, yet helps people who're still trying to figure it out have a more enjoyable time. There is no negative in this. Stop being self-appointed gate-keepers, you're not helping anyone.

[Althaline]

You talk about challenge in the high-level bounties a lot. I have no problem with the high-level bounties being challenging, in fact I welcome it. What I do have a problem with is getting annihilated by the base free-roam enemies on regular occasions. That is what the nerf was about. It just seems to have had side effects.

[Am0rph15]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

But then, I see this compliant alot.

Isn't most things in this game easy when you have a 3 forma rhino prime, with a 5 forma arca plasmor with maxxed primed mods?

What do you expect? It's easy for you. But I would say these bounties should be doable by 7+ MR right? Because you need the drops and the mods.

 

I think super meta players need some perspective - Your Arca Plasmor meta, BFG annihilator build is of course going to steam roll everything. But you can't expect this to be a requirement to play some content in the new open world (selling point for new players). 

This may not suit everyone but from time-to-time I unequip my Rhino Prime and Arca Plasmor and revert to using the level of equipment and mods I had when I started Warframe (after dumping Destiny); it renews a sense of perspective.

[Misgenesis]

Oh neat, i dont have to resort to tanky frames only now. I knew something wasnt right when my Khora was being mowed down by sub sortie level enemies.

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

1 hour ago, Gabbynaru said:

So, enemies that were absolutely no challenge to anyone at endgame got a bit easier for newcomers, and your answer is to complain? Grow up, people. Inclusion is good. These enemies were easy, them being a bit easier makes literally no difference for anyone who knows what they're doing, yet helps people who're still trying to figure it out have a more enjoyable time. There is no negative in this. Stop being self-appointed gate-keepers, you're not helping anyone.

Exactly - every piece of game that comes out there is a sub section (who run with steam roll builds) that want to exclude people so they can feel exclusive. 

People with absolutely no perspective. 

[disco_inferno6]

If someone from DE is reading,

guys I can't waste anymore time fending off insults from some self-centered braying donkeys in the forums

who can't even fathom the notion of constructive dialogue. A few people responded courteously but some didn't.

 

Nevertheless, this is not an arena. It is supposed to be a platform for comms.

I've done my part as a player to inform you.

You hit the "sweetspot" in Bounty 5 before the hotfix.

A gameplay that ain't endgame nor too easy that does not need too much cheese to be engaging.

If you check other threads, you'll see that other people enjoyed it too.

It is no accident. Perhaps an enemy needed a dmg reduction but overall, it was very well balanced.

You shouldn't have nerfed the whole Corpus fleet.

Perhaps you could review the changes.

 

That's all I had to say. Since Warframe ain't my personal playground nor anyone else's in the Forums for that matter, the decision rests with you.

'Till next time.

See you in space

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by disco_inferno6

[Birkenhoff]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Gabbynaru:

So, enemies that were absolutely no challenge to anyone at endgame got a bit easier for newcomers, and your answer is to complain? Grow up, people. Inclusion is good. These enemies were easy, them being a bit easier makes literally no difference for anyone who knows what they're doing, yet helps people who're still trying to figure it out have a more enjoyable time. There is no negative in this. Stop being self-appointed gate-keepers, you're not helping anyone.

You don't need to be that aggressive because you don't cope with some other peoples oppinion, you're not helping anyone oO

You're right, every aspect of warframe is pretty easy. It's not about survival but KPS, especially if you have the opportunity to use frames that clear entire tilesets by default 4.

By playing level 5 bounties in PUGs you actually had the chance to fail the bounty itself or its bonus. That was some uncommon, challenging and fresh experience. It was fun! I'm totally aware that this is not Dark Souls but it's sad to see that literally EVERY aspect of gameplay is nerved into oblivion once it's identified as a little bit(!) challenging.

Why not pushing the dificulty of level 4-5 bounties and tell the newbros to come back later? I know this won't happen because this is a free to play game and you have to please people by content accessibility. That's the reason behind "new player experience". "...sel-appointed gate-keepers." Really?

[DreisterDino]

vor 37 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Clockwork Geoff:

Exactly - every piece of game that comes out there is a sub section (who run with steam roll builds) that want to exclude people so they can feel exclusive. 

People with absolutely no perspective. 

Ok, so i (OP aswell) take our time to answer your questions and try to explain everything in detail.

We try to be polite and calm and even took your opinions into consideration and reduced our wish to only 1 of 5 bountys instead of just applying it to everything in Fortuna to find a compromise (that is usually the goal of a discussion btw).

 

And then you decide to completly ignore everything we say and dont answer our questions in return and instead proceed to simple flame/insult us and make false accusations like "they want to exclude other players and feel exclusive" and such things. *slow clap* I know i know, thats how the internet works.

 

Maybe you are just a troll and try to provoke us until we also start to flame people, but i am not gonna do that.

So if you wanna actually talk about this topic in a serious way, i am open for that. but if not i am just gonna ignore this and stop wasting my time.

 

At least there are some people that manage to stay polite and reasonable even when they disagree with an opinion, thanks to those guys.

Edited November 13, 2018 by DreisterDino

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

2 hours ago, DreisterDino said:

Have they been the "new meta Endgame" before the Hotfix? No. we are not asking for endgame, we didnt even use that term until you guys used it.

In a topic where a player asked about what the Meta for Fortuna Bountys is everyone answered something like

"play whatever you want, everything works" , "just take a weapon with gas and you be fine" , "the same frame as everywhere else are viable"

 

Are you even reading? i think i have been more than clear about what i want in this topic.

But i can repeat myself once again although this unnecessary bloats this topic..

 

- somewhat engaging gameplay in which you have to try just a little bit to actually recieve the bonus

- not a boring snoozefest in which 3 people can go mine and fish while 1 person is doing the bounty

- simply the gameplay we had before the patch

- if that prepatch gameplay was something you could call endgame, why have there been any topics in this forum or youtubers making videos with titles like "finally the endgame we always wanted" "Warframe has Endgame now" and so on? so could you plz stop saying we are asking for endgame when we only want the prepatch gameplay with stronger enemies in 1 out of 5 bountys at least?

 

Why does "challenge" become "endgame" automatically?

The pre patch version of the Bounty was in a good spot between this.

It was not like something like Raids or Eidolons which comes closest to the term Endgame in Warframe and where people are forced to bring very specific loadouts and play in a very specific way to make it through, you could make it with everything. Still it was not tooo easy so it gets boring.

 

Why do make this stuff up?

This is simply not true.

Where did we need a "3 forma rhino prime with a 5 forma arca plasmor with maxxed primed mods" to succeed in the Bountys?

That simply wasnt the case at all.

This was the extent of your well explained and constructive answer @DreisterDino

'Some what engaging'...'not a snooze fest'  Some real constructive feedback for DE to put into numbers there

This has been my point the entire time. I am not flaming you, but neither you nor the OP seem to hit upon what your issue is. Or an exact balancing solution? Or how it would affect people who have played the game enough but find the bounties challenging as they are?

Your lack of perspective here...I'm sure it's a snooze fest for 20+ MRs with optimal builds. But what about regular joes who have decent stuff (MRS 7-18) and not the meta melter builds you guys have? Should they be denied access because they haven't got premo builds just so  you can find the level 5 bounty 'somewhat challenging?'.  

Thank goodness DE disagrees with you and made this patch. 

 

[ArchXDiablo]

Meta gear to steamroll pre nerf Orb Vallis? LOL what? You could do max rank bounty with a melee Nekros running a Guandao, a Zarr, a frost, anything. If you think we needed meta builds for Fortuna you are crazy. The game is easy, and Fortuna pre nerf was enjoyable enough to not allow you to steamroll with your eyes closed. Now it's once again another non challenging area. Give us an elite bounty option, even without the rewards it was so damn fun and chaotic. And no I'm not a vet I have been playing for maybe 3-4 months.

 

 

[ArchXDiablo]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

Your lack of perspective here...I'm sure it's a snooze fest for 20+ MRs with optimal builds. But what about regular joes who have decent stuff (MRS 7-18) and not the meta melter builds you guys have? Should they be denied access because they haven't got premo builds just so  you can find the level 5 bounty 'somewhat challenging?'.  

Thank goodness DE disagrees with you and made this patch. 

 

Regular joe here, MR14, it was and is a snooze fest with non meta. Why are you assuming meta builds were required to steamroll lvl50 enemies? 

[(XBOX)Clockwork Geoff]

6 minutes ago, ArchXDiablo said:

Regular joe here, MR14, it was and is a snooze fest with non meta. Why are you assuming meta builds were required to steamroll lvl50 enemies? 

SO it already was a snooze fest? Why change it back then? Just to make it a little bit more enjoyable for you, and more restrictive to some players? You don't sound like you enjoyed the challenge much before anyway.