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Punch through doesn't work on Tombfinger, as well as nearly non-existent AoE


LokiTheCondom
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Out of all the chambers, Tombfinger piqued my interests the most. To my dismay, its AoE works funny and just kinda triggers randomly. That plus punch through has no effects on its projectile, hence making this kitgun at the moment being not all that suited to deal with crowds. 

Description oughta just be edited to:

"Reach out and blast someone. Just someone. One shot, one someone."

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I thought this gun was going to be good, but most of its damage doesn't even trigger on a direct hit a lot of the time! It's a very weird and buggy mechanic, I don't understand why it doesn't just have a small omnidirectional AoE like every other weapon except the Astilla (which turns out is also buggy, but not nearly as bad), this frontal cone thing is worse than useless.

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11 hours ago, Wandrecanada said:

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Tombfinger projectiles only deal impact/puncture to hit targets.  AoE splash only applies in a cone backwards from the impact point and applies Radiation damage.

Well that's 144p that I'm never getting back.

8 hours ago, HadronVictorioso said:

Tombfinger's just stupid right now. It should just be a hitscan bullet instead of a weird projectile.

True, the description made it sound like some nasty shotgun.

6 hours ago, Mudfam said:

I thought this gun was going to be good, but most of its damage doesn't even trigger on a direct hit a lot of the time! It's a very weird and buggy mechanic, I don't understand why it doesn't just have a small omnidirectional AoE like every other weapon except the Astilla (which turns out is also buggy, but not nearly as bad), this frontal cone thing is worse than useless.

Yeah TF is just disappointing for now, it's single-target potential ain't all that well.

Astilla's AoE is just weird for me. Hope they patch the AoEs soon.

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18 hours ago, Wandrecanada said:

See other posts on this.

Tombfinger projectiles only deal impact/puncture to hit targets.  AoE splash only applies in a cone backwards from the impact point and applies Radiation damage.

That can't be true. The projectiles wouldn't be able to do the damage they do with just the impact and puncture part of the stats, and besides, it's easy to test. Corrupted bombard and corrupted heavy gunner: Both ferrite and alloy armor are neutral against impact. Puncture gets +50% against ferrite, while against alloy it's only +15%. Yet the projectile does more damage to a bombard, so it must have radiation damage. The AoE is in fact pure radiation, though.

The biggest issue is that unlike other weapons that do two instances of damage per shot (projectile and AoE), Tombfinger's AoE doesn't touch the enemy hit by the projectile unless you fire at a few specific and not really realistic angles.

Also, punchthrough works just fine from what I've seen? It might even be the best way to use the gun if DE doesn't change how finnicky the AoE is - from what I've seen, it manages to reach enemies most reliably (still not anywhere near reliable, though) when you hit the floor/wall near them. So equip punchthrough, shoot through an enemy at a wall/floor, hopefully score a double hit on that eney and splash on few others.

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3 hours ago, vFlitz said:

That can't be true. The projectiles wouldn't be able to do the damage they do with just the impact and puncture part of the stats, and besides, it's easy to test. Corrupted bombard and corrupted heavy gunner: Both ferrite and alloy armor are neutral against impact. Puncture gets +50% against ferrite, while against alloy it's only +15%. Yet the projectile does more damage to a bombard, so it must have radiation damage. The AoE is in fact pure radiation, though.

I just tested this and it's true that the projectile does more damage to a bombard. It looks as though 1/3 of the radiation damage is given to the projectile, but because I never saw it proc radiation I didn't think it was.

The damage is clearly divided between projectile and splash, about 50/50. Most direct hits will only do about half the listed damage. You can easily test this by shooting a corpus tech or something which has little in the way of resistances against it.

Punch through does seem to function normally.

 

Either way the weapon is misleading, glitchy and inconsistent. My tombfinger does about half a much single target DPS as common semi-auto pistols like lex prime, lato prime, magnus, vasto prime, pandero etc. but it's not hitscan and does guaranteed impact procs which are a huge nuisance. Far from an AoE killer, it's just weak and clumsy.

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7 hours ago, Mudfam said:

I just tested this and it's true that the projectile does more damage to a bombard. It looks as though 1/3 of the radiation damage is given to the projectile, but because I never saw it proc radiation I didn't think it was.

The damage is clearly divided between projectile and splash, about 50/50. Most direct hits will only do about half the listed damage. You can easily test this by shooting a corpus tech or something which has little in the way of resistances against it.

Punch through does seem to function normally.

 

Either way the weapon is misleading, glitchy and inconsistent. My tombfinger does about half a much single target DPS as common semi-auto pistols like lex prime, lato prime, magnus, vasto prime, pandero etc. but it's not hitscan and does guaranteed impact procs which are a huge nuisance. Far from an AoE killer, it's just weak and clumsy.

Agreed on all points. Terrible gun ATM.

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17 minutes ago, Pyradus said:

Hopefully we will see some corrective buffs for Tombfinger, otherwise it looks to be the weakest out of the four chambers... pitiful rate of fire, slow projectile. It would be made up for if it had proper AoE capabilities.

I'd rather it become a normal hitscan bullet that hits like a truck, handcannon-style. Don't need this fancy stupid crap.

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correct me if i'm wrong, but punch through mod has no effect on any chamber currently available to us.

it doesn't work on catchmoon, it doesn't work on tombfinger and gaze too.  most likely it doesn't work on that stapler wannabe chamber as well.

 

and honestly, that kinda sucks. because it makes all kitguns not viable, mastery fodder weapons for me.

Edited by Kel_Silonius
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8 minutes ago, Kel_Silonius said:

correct me if i'm wrong, but punch through mod has no effect on any chamber currently available to us.

it doesn't work on catchmoon, it doesn't work on tombfinger and gaze as well.  most likely it doesn't work on that stapler wannabe chamber as well.

 

and honestly, that kinda sucks. because it makes all kitguns not viable, mastery fodder weapons for me.

I did some additional testing, and on tombfinger punchthrough is indeed buggy, although it's not like it doesn't work entirely. In simulacrum and captura it works just fine, in missions however it appears to only apply to obstacles and not to enemies.

Doesn't work at all on catchmoon, not as much of an issue since it has innate enemy punchthrough.. I just wish the projectile didn't disappear all the ime because its massive collision box grazes the terrain.

Can't say anything about the other two, but rattleguts should be fine as its the only hitscan one

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1 ??? ?????, vFlitz ??????:

not as much of an issue since it has innate enemy punchthrough

hmm? yes but it's very low value PT. If we would run a test in the Simulacrum, there is a visual and sound confirmation of the PT effect. However it's rather small and we can't increase it through a mod, we can't compare Catchmoon PT with a PT of the Detron with a Seeker.

There is no visual and sound confirmation on Gaze and Tombfinger.

I just main Mag, and PT+magnetize is a very nice combo, so i have PT on my primary and secondary weapons, this effect is very important for me. But if kitguns do not have PT or it's rather limited, i see no reason to use kitguns. I mean even arcanes are not reason enough.

Edited by Kel_Silonius
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On 2018-11-16 at 6:22 PM, Mudfam said:

I thought this gun was going to be good, but most of its damage doesn't even trigger on a direct hit a lot of the time! It's a very weird and buggy mechanic, I don't understand why it doesn't just have a small omnidirectional AoE like every other weapon except the Astilla (which turns out is also buggy, but not nearly as bad), this frontal cone thing is worse than useless.

it's funny you say Astilla, which isn't a Radial Damage zone either.
Astillas' AoE is fired in a forwards cone.

either way i'll take Weapons that work in interesting ways over having 2592555 Skins for one Gun that are named differently.

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17 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's funny you say Astilla, which isn't a Radial Damage zone either.
Astillas' AoE is fired in a forwards cone.

Yeah, I brought it up specifically because it's the only other weapon I know of with this mechanic. When the Tombfinger turned out to be so random in its behaviour I got out my Astilla and tested that too. Turns out the Astilla will indeed occasionally not deal splash damage on a direct hit, but far less often than the Tombfinger.

At the very least it should behave consistently, with half its damage often missing it's just very weak. Regardless, I have no interest in this weapon even if this is fixed if it retains this mechanic. I don't need an awkward and ugly single target weapon, there are far better options out there. "Lots of someones" really isn't an apt description for a tiny radius cone aimed back at your instead of your enemies...

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25 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

"Lots of someones" really isn't an apt description for a tiny radius cone aimed back at your instead of your enemies...

certainly more situational than 'just a Gun', but that uniqueness will let it excel incredibly in niche situations as well.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2018-11-16 at 1:45 PM, Wandrecanada said:

See other posts on this.

Tombfinger projectiles only deal impact/puncture to hit targets.  AoE splash only applies in a cone backwards from the impact point and applies Radiation damage.

Huh... never did i think i would have to intentionally miss my target to be able to do decent damage. Unless the AoE effects the target too, if not then that is extremely poor design imo... intersting but poor. 

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9 hours ago, Sheady117 said:

Huh... never did i think i would have to intentionally miss my target to be able to do decent damage. Unless the AoE effects the target too, if not then that is extremely poor design imo... intersting but poor. 

It should hit with both of the damage instances. The problem is that it doesn't always happen and depends heavily on the enemy's shape, what part of the enemy you're shooting at and the angle you're shooting from. Taking a corrupted bombard for example, anything close to the red line won't score a double hit. It creates some ridiculous situations, like your kill time against very high level heavies being better if you shoot at the leg that scores double hits than if you shoot at the head, because you get twice as many corrosive procs that way.

Warframe0168.jpg

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4 hours ago, vFlitz said:

It should hit with both of the damage instances. The problem is that it doesn't always happen and depends heavily on the enemy's shape, what part of the enemy you're shooting at and the angle you're shooting from. Taking a corrupted bombard for example, anything close to the red line won't score a double hit. It creates some ridiculous situations, like your kill time against very high level heavies being better if you shoot at the leg that scores double hits than if you shoot at the head, because you get twice as many corrosive procs that way.

Warframe0168.jpg

Thank you for the break down of it. Personally, I'd take a heavy nerf to its mag cap for it to not have a back blast AoE. Maybe instead reverse the cone of effect and have it do a punch through AoE. That would most likely take care of the lost damage, and make it more worth while to use. Truth be told I'd even take away the AoE entirely and opt for something like a euphona slug. 

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What would be an interesting change would be if they gave tombfinger an alt fire, and had one fire mode blast the cones back towards you and had one blast the cones forward. The blastback seems like it must be an intentional weird feature, and it's sort of a neat idea for a gimmick, but seems really impractical, especially with it having issues even hitting the guy you shoot.

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I actually feel the AoE for Tombfinger is intended to be a disadvantage.

This is a high damage Pistol that has double status rates. I think the AoE is pointed back in your direction to make the weapon unsafe to close quarters combat but not punishing as other AoE weapons have been in the past. Sure you can take advantage of the AoE a little but for the most part it's just a beefy semi-auto pistol with a unique quirk.

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il y a 27 minutes, Xzorn a dit :

I think the AoE is pointed back in your direction to make the weapon unsafe to close quarters combat [...] 

It doesn't do any self damage tho, does it? I mean i never had it deal any damage back to me. I would have definitely felt it if it did 😧

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