Akvasto Prime recoil is weird.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 hours ago, THeMooN85 said:

That's not a bug... higher recoil is because you have to hold each revolver in each hand (on Vasto Prime you hold two hand)... and fire rate is higher. 

 

The problem here is consistency.

If I use Vasto Prime in one hand and a Glaive in the other, Vasto Prime has little to no recoil. Yet if I equip two Vasto Primes all of a sudden magically we now have a lot of recoil. 

Likewise when I run AkVasto Prime during a mobile d or excavation and then pick up a data mass/cell. Now my Vasto Prime has a lot of recoil...

Umm wut?! 

Edited December 3, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

Maybe for Consistency then? De should increase the recoil on regular Akvasto to match the prime version.

Why? We’ve been arguing that the AkVasto Prime should be more consistent with the regular AkVasto.

Why should the regular AkVasto be made more consistent with the muzzle climb to the AkVasto Prime when the handling and stability of the regular AkVasto have been like this for years?

[DeMonkey]

I had the AkVasto Prime sitting in my foundry upon reading this post, after reading words like "ridiculous", "massive flop" and an implication that it's unusable I had to give a go.

I guess the only thing really disappointing is the level of hyperbole here.

It's entirely controllable, meaning it's anything but ridiculous and in no way makes the weapon a "massive flop". There's constructive feedback to had be had somewhere with regards to consistency and buffing, but this isn't it.

[Fenrys_Delta]

19 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I had the AkVasto Prime sitting in my foundry upon reading this post, after reading words like "ridiculous", "massive flop" and an implication that it's unusable I had to give a go.

I guess the only thing really disappointing is the level of hyperbole here.

It's entirely controllable, meaning it's anything but ridiculous and in no way makes the weapon a "massive flop". There's constructive feedback to had be had somewhere with regards to consistency and buffing, but this isn't it.

Nowhere in this thread did we say the recoil is uncontrollable. I clearly said that I´m more than capable of landing shots accurately and consistently with the Akvasto Prime.

What I´m saying is that it doesn´t feel like the Akvasto we all know and love anymore.

I´ve always used the regular Akvasto before, especially on my Mesa. But I´ve always felt a little guilty, because I know there are WAY better secondaries to use, ones that do more damage, have bigger magazines and all that stuff. So I´ve always knew that I could be doing way more damage with other pistols.

But I´ve decided to stick with the Akvasto because the damn thing is SO addictive to use, it looks so cool, the reloading animation is the best in the game.

And then I read in the patch notes that we would FINALLY get a prime, oh boy, I was excited.

But now, the Akvasto Prime is here, but it doesn´t feel like the Akvasto Anymore.

So, it may not be a concern for you, or many other people. But the people who love the weapon are deeply disappointed by it.

So yea, it´s a major flop in my book.

[DeMonkey]

10 minutes ago, Fenrys_Delta said:

Nowhere in this thread did we say the recoil is uncontrollable.

Gotcha, so referring to the recoil as "ridiculous" and claiming the weapon is for you unusable is not saying the recoil is uncontrollable.

Do you see now why those words may be seen as incredibly hyperbolic? If you're able to control it, it cannot be ridiculous and unusable.

The more I read, the less it looks like the recoil is the actual problem here, especially given how often you now mention the different reload animation, which is curiously not something that's mentioned in your OP. That reload animation I can see going a long way towards the "feel" of a weapon, as opposed to an entirely controllable recoil.

Edited December 3, 2018 by DeMonkey

[Fenrys_Delta]

26 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Gotcha, so referring to the recoil as "ridiculous" and claiming the weapon is for you unusable is not saying the recoil is uncontrollable.

Do you see now why those words may be seen as incredibly hyperbolic? If you're able to control it, it cannot be ridiculous and unusable.

The more I read, the less it looks like the recoil is the actual problem here, especially given how often you now mention the different reload animation, which is curiously not something that's mentioned in your OP. That reload animation I can see going a long way towards the "feel" of a weapon, as opposed to an entirely controllable recoil.

Put the same recoil of the Akvasto Prime on the Akstilleto Prime and try, jnust TRY not to see it as a ridiculous thing to do.

You can call it hyperbolic if you want to, though.

So no, referring to it as ridiculous is NOT the same as saying it´s uncontrollable.

It´s controllable, but it´s ridiculous on the Akvasto series.

 Yes, I mentioned the other things  such reloading animation, gun model, etc, as a mean to convey that the recoil, while not uncontrollable (as I mentioned as a response to someone else), is not consistent with the Vasto/Akvasto series.

And it all comes together to make the Akvasto Prime like an entirely different gun.

I can look past the "uglier" gun model and the loss of the reloading animation. But come on, why would I use the Akvasto Prime with that recoil if I can just use the Aklex Prime and have  more damage and a slightly bigger magazine?

And I can almost see people furiously typing stuff like: "use the Aklex Prime, then" or "lets give the regular Akvasto the same recoil as the Prime, for the sake of consistency"

We´re trying to get the devs to see that many people are not so hot about that recoil.

So yes, I´m still using the regular Akvasto, and my fully forma´ed Akvasto Prime is collecting dust on my arsenal.

And it´s such a shame because we waited quite a while for the damn thing to arrive, only to see it disrespected like this.

[DeMonkey]

19 minutes ago, Fenrys_Delta said:

You can call it hyperbolic if you want to, though.

Because it is. I didn't read this and think "maybe they have a valid point", I laughed. I laughed at this post as well, nothing was "disrespected".

But whatever, if you think this is decent feedback then go right ahead. I wouldn't expect anything to change because of this thread however. 

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

10 hours ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Try not to get so worked over Non-Existent "Bugs" like this, and you'll have a much better Warframe-ing experience.
 

Paraphrased Complaint Example I've seen before: "Guys, DE still hasn't fixed the bug where, when I fall from slightly higher heights, my Frame near Collapses upon landing. DE, there is no Fall Damage, so why does my Frame go down in what looks like Pain? Fix this Bug already!"

Well, that's certainly one way to put the "super hero landing" which yes I agree is utterly ridiculous and unnecessary.

[Fenrys_Delta]

10 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Because it is. I didn't read this and think "maybe they have a valid point", I laughed. I laughed at this post as well, nothing was "disrespected".

But whatever, if you think this is decent feedback then go right ahead. I wouldn't expect anything to change because of this thread however. 

Well, what´s not decent about it?

We´re telling DE what we don´t like about the gun and WHY we don´t like it.

And I still haven´t seen one shred of a reason as to why they would have this gun with so much recoil, apart from the "they´re twin revolvers, it´s hard to control". Which is true in the real world, but it´s a poor excuse in a video game.

If someone said like: "they buffed the damage, the gun needs some balance" I´d consider it a fair point. And to that I´d  say I´d happily have the damage nerfed a little bit, if they got rid of the damn recoil.

As it is, I have zero incentive to use the Prime version over the regular one.

At least the regular Akvasto behaves the way it should.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

10 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Because it is. I didn't read this and think "maybe they have a valid point", I laughed. I laughed at this post as well, nothing was "disrespected".

But whatever, if you think this is decent feedback then go right ahead. I wouldn't expect anything to change because of this thread however. 

The AkVasto Prime feel much, much more different than what was to be expected from the regular AkVasto, the Vasto, and the Vasto Prime. We’re just discontent that the arbitrary decision of “because it’s a primed akimbo secondary, it should have a muzzle climb” was poorly and lazily implemented on these akimbo pistols that a cult following of players (including myself) were waiting for. It’s just not right.

We can always cherry pick our arguments all we want and argue about hyperbole all day, but the fact of the matter is that the AkVasto Prime is demonstrating a characteristic unusual of its nature in the Vasto/AkVasto family and we’re calling bull  on it.

Any suggestions or arguments to work with the muzzle climb is, again, unusual but also mechanically responsive to what we have to deal with DE’s misgivings whenever they flub things up. I believe with the utmost sincerest intent that myself, @Fenrys_Delta, and several other players that have provided negative feedback regarding the AkVasto Prime’s muzzle climb should honestly be accepted as appropriate feedback rather than be dismissed as vitriol.

[Sharkgoblin]

after reading this post i equipped akvasto prime and i went to do some invasions to see how bad the recoil is: turns out the recoil on akvasto prime is absolutely not a problem, the weapon kick just a bit and the compensation required is minimal

Edited December 3, 2018 by COATTOQUALUNQUE

[DeMonkey]

7 hours ago, Fenrys_Delta said:

Well, what´s not decent about it?

After everything I've said... you think this feedback is actually "decent".

Are you having a giggle? 

7 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

should honestly be accepted as appropriate feedback rather than be dismissed as vitriol.

I'm sure it would be, if it were presented according to the "How to feedback" announcement at the top of every feedback page.

I'm not against a change (although I don't even remotely think it's necessary given how trivial the recoil actually is), but this won't get it. Nor will any thread that claims 'x' is unplayable, ridiculous or a massive flop when it's a perfectly usable weapon that you subjectively dislike. 

It's not constructive, and I'm simply trying to explain that to the OP... who sadly seems to think there's nothing wrong at all. I tried, I failed, I'm moving on.

[Fenrys_Delta]

40 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

After everything I've said... you think this feedback is actually "decent".

Are you having a giggle? 

I'm sure it would be, if it were presented according to the "How to feedback" announcement at the top of every feedback page.

I'm not against a change (although I don't even remotely think it's necessary given how trivial the recoil actually is), but this won't get it. Nor will any thread that claims 'x' is unplayable, ridiculous or a massive flop when it's a perfectly usable weapon that you subjectively dislike. 

It's not constructive, and I'm simply trying to explain that to the OP... who sadly seems to think there's nothing wrong at all. I tried, I failed, I'm moving on.

Nope, not having a giggle.

I said how the recoil is bad, why is bad and why it´s inconsistent with the Akvasto series.

I even provided examples of how the recoil affects the gameplay.

Since you´re SO worried about the "correct" feedback, let´s do it:

1. Keep it simple - check. I think I made my point pretty clear.

2. Back it up - check. I provided examples of stats, recoil comparison with the regular Akvasto AND other guns, such as the Aklex.

3. Be polite - check. I don´t think I was rude or offensive to anyone.

"I don't even remotely think it's necessary" - your statement is just as subjective.

And that´s the second time you say you´re "moving on" without adding nothing more to the discussion other than stating that I´m not giving "correct feedback", which I did.

You didn´t give a SINGLE reason as to why the Prime recoil should be different from the regular one.

[ExcaliburUmbra]

23 hours ago, Fenrys_Delta said:

Yes, it does more damage, but it changed pretty much everything else we liked about the original:

The recoil is horrible, the model for the guns is worse (subjective, but my oppinion nonetheless) and we lost the amazing reload animation of the original.

I worked around the gun model by getting the Akvasto forest camo skin for plat. That made the prime look more like the original, which is way better.

Recoil aside, I’m just wondering what you were expecting here with the bolded. Pretty much every single “ak-something” gun is just two of the same gun dual-wielded. We’ve had Vasto Prime for years now, doesn’t take a genius to assume Akvasto Prime would be two Vasto Primes. 

[Fenrys_Delta]

1 hour ago, OmegaZero633 said:

Recoil aside, I’m just wondering what you were expecting here with the bolded. Pretty much every single “ak-something” gun is just two of the same gun dual-wielded. We’ve had Vasto Prime for years now, doesn’t take a genius to assume Akvasto Prime would be two Vasto Primes. 

I haven´t seen the vasto prime before so I wouldn´t know.

And it wasn´t me who put the aforementioned bit in bolded. Must have been someone else 😃

[ExcaliburUmbra]

41 minutes ago, Fenrys_Delta said:

I haven´t seen the vasto prime before so I wouldn´t know.

And it wasn´t me who put the aforementioned bit in bolded. Must have been someone else 😃

Yeah, I should have been more clear on that apologies. I bolded that bit so it would be easier to see which part I was responding to.

Was just curious how one could look forward (for a long time according to the OP) to AkVasto Prime coming out while still being surprised at the design once it came out, but I guess not knowing what Vasto Prime even looked like explains that. 

Hope your crusade for lesser recoil works out, you’re certainly not the only gunslinger complaining about it.

 

[Fenrys_Delta]

6 minutes ago, OmegaZero633 said:

Yeah, I should have been more clear on that apologies. I bolded that bit so it would be easier to see which part I was responding to.

Was just curious how one could look forward (for a long time according to the OP) to AkVasto Prime coming out while still being surprised at the design once it came out, but I guess not knowing what Vasto Prime even looked like explains that. 

Hope your crusade for lesser recoil works out, you’re certainly not the only gunslinger complaining about it.

 

I never cared much for single guns. I don´t even have the regular vasto on my arsenal. I only crafted two of them in order to craft the Akvasto.

And when I used it for the first time, I got hooked.

Thanks for the support, though. 😃

Edited December 4, 2018 by Fenrys_Delta
Spelling.

[--RV--Dopekoke]

 

If you're going to compare the Akvasto prime to other dual secondaries, it would be best to compare them from the same category; you can't compare the Akvasto to the Akstilettos since they're automatic.  Since it's also a prime version, you can only compare it to other prime versions from its original counterpart since the topic is about why the prime version has this or that compared to its original since it sounds like you want a complete buff, etc. 

With that being said, there are only are two, Akbolto Prime and Aklex Prime and one of them is a projectile so that leaves us with one prime semi-auto dual secondary that is also a hitscan to compare it to.

The Akvasto Prime and the Aklex Prime.  

[mikakor]

Still extremely sad about how this was a weapon greatly in demand and DE somehow completely missed the mark. And the target was as big as an elephant.

Get rid of that recoil and put it in line with regular akvasto, boom, everyone is happy. It is THAT simple. A prime version should be a straight up upgrade, no compromise, period. No bullcrap.

Please DE...

Edited December 5, 2018 by mikakor

[Grave.Knight]

Not even sure you need Steady Hands, the recoil doesn't seem that bad, just learn to compensate for your shots. It's not like Pyrana Prime where it's both full auto and kicks like a horse.

[Fenrys_Delta]

On 2018-12-05 at 9:51 PM, Mifune013 said:

Not even sure you need Steady Hands, the recoil doesn't seem that bad, just learn to compensate for your shots. It's not like Pyrana Prime where it's both full auto and kicks like a horse.

The problem is that it changed too much from the regular version. We LOVED the regular akvasto. All DE had to do was bump the damage a little bit and that was it.

The increased recoil was not necessary at all. Even with steady hands, the recoil on the Prime is still higher than the regular Akvasto.

As it is, the thing is fully forma´ed and collecting dust on my arsenal, as I will keep using the regular one, despite it having less damage. 

[(PSN)negativ21]

So there's two types of arguments here:

Consistency - it should have more recoil bc 1) it's two handed now: that begs the question why doesn't the regular akvasto have the same, and any of the vasto series have *any* recoil at all. 

Realism:

2) bc it's a revolver and they naturally have such kick: well first, again where is such kick on the rest of the series, and I don't mean as much, but 0? Second, why does it have as much kick as the lex prime yet do less than half damage? Shouldn't the stopping power correlate with the kick? What about the consistency there? As far as I know the recoil was identical between lex and aklex and their respective primes... 

Heck maybe they should add recoil to the rest of the series just for consistencies sake. At least that would make some of the naysayers arguments here viable. 

So far there hasn't been any legitimate claim as to why this change is unreasonable. Just work around suggestions or the above. Working around is an option, but there's simply no reason we cant ask for better as well. Especially when it's such an easy change.

[(PSN)negativ21]

On 2018-12-03 at 6:40 PM, Fenrys_Delta said:

I'm not against a change (although I don't even remotely think it's necessary given how trivial the recoil actually is), but this won't get it. Nor will any thread that claims 'x' is unplayable, ridiculous or a massive flop when it's a perfectly usable weapon that you subjectively dislike. 

I wouldn't be so sure bud. And it's ironic that you say his judgement of the recoil is subjective, ur aware ur determination for it not being too much is exactly the same? 

When it comes to talks about viability subjectiveness goes hand in hand. People have different tolerance levels and different ideas, theres no use or value in attacking that, it just come off as toxic. 

If you haven't noticed, comments about the recoil being unmanageable, ridic, etc have been limited to the OP and his posts. Many of the supporters of this thread that came out are giving good, reasonable feedback probably more so than yourself. Many of your claims fall short.

[mikakor]

2 hours ago, (PS4)negativ21 said:

If you haven't noticed, comments about the recoil being unmanageable, ridic, etc have been limited to the OP and his posts. Many of the supporters of this thread that came out are giving good, reasonable feedback probably more so than yourself. Many of your claims fall short.

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)negativ21 said:

Realism

Even if realism isn't even a thing to take into account at any moment while balancing the game because we are controling hyper strong and powerful living armor. So let's put that down since """realism""" don't have any right to be an argument.

[Fenrys_Delta]

5 hours ago, (PS4)negativ21 said:

I wouldn't be so sure bud. And it's ironic that you say his judgement of the recoil is subjective, ur aware ur determination for it not being too much is exactly the same? 

When it comes to talks about viability subjectiveness goes hand in hand. People have different tolerance levels and different ideas, theres no use or value in attacking that, it just come off as toxic. 

If you haven't noticed, comments about the recoil being unmanageable, ridic, etc have been limited to the OP and his posts. Many of the supporters of this thread that came out are giving good, reasonable feedback probably more so than yourself. Many of your claims fall short.

The recoil is NOT "unmanageable", I can land shots accurately and consistently with the Akvasto Prime. That´s NOT the problem.

The problem is that the recoil changes too much how we use the weapon. We loved the regular Akvasto for what it was and how it played. The only thing it lacked was more DAMAGE.

So when the Akvasto Prime released, we were excited to have this ONE flaw corrected a little bit. So you can imagine our disappointment when we saw ANOTHER drawback attached to it, in the form of this weird, unwarranted recoil.