Is Loki in a not so good position rigth now?

[(PSN)teacup775]

On 2019-01-04 at 8:55 PM, -Sentient- said:

Problem is Loki still gets shoot while invisible due to the heavy fire around him,and we all know Loki is squishy

 

Why would you be sitting 8n the middle of fire with loki?

Loki is still #1 used frame by vets. I solo a majority of sortie or floods with him when speed and stealth matter and killing does not because I’d rather use something in your face then. His kit is exactly what it needs to be.

Ash is great if you need mobile slaughter and stealth. Ivara is nice for conservation but eh, there’s no format to snipe assasinate anything in this game so shrug.

 

The essence of loki is he is stealth that moves lightning fast. Ivara can’t move at full sprint. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by (PS4)teacup775

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

Ivara is nice for conservation but eh, there’s no format to snipe assasinate anything in this game so shrug.

I solo assassinate EVERYTHING in this game.  It's the reason I play it.  😄  

[(PSN)teacup775]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I solo assassinate EVERYTHING in this game.  It's the reason I play it.  😄  

Em so do I with any number of frames. There’s no real sniper killer like say Zer0.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

2 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

That's with a specific mod. Not everyone has that specific mod. It's an Arb drop at that.

I'm not talking about speciality builts, I'm talking about base abilities of a frame and the build trade offs.

A base build. So... Tell me what is allowed and what isn't allowed. Because at this point your changing the rules to prove your point. Lol

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

That sounds good on paper until you're in mission with a Rad Disarm Loki and there are enemies with AoE and ground pound AoE attacks that start hitting teammates.  I've been on the receiving end of that Cluster and the only thing that saved the whole party including the Loki from his own power was me using Sleep on the enemies so they would completely stop.  Dead is the best CC with Sleep being a close second.  

Dead is easy once theyre irradiating in theyre own juices

[(XBOX)Darthgollum 01]

On 2019-01-05 at 4:55 AM, -Sentient- said:

Decoy: the only use at this is to switch teleport with it,but thats it,it gets 1 shoot at higher levels

You can kinda do the same thing about "take fire away from you"  with other frames,Aka Revenant enthrall,Nyx Chaos...

 

Invisibility: Ash,Octavia,Ivara,all of them has this too,but of course loki invisibility still beats them,thats good rigth?

Problem is Loki still gets shoot while invisible due to the heavy fire around him,and we all know Loki is squishy

 

Switch teleport: The only thing useful about this ability is fast travel 

Can it avoid spy lasers? Well guess what Limbo and Ivara can do it too.

 

Disarm:This ability is good,disarming enemies rigth? Oh so good..

Baruuk now its able to disarm enemies and at the same time have damage protection

 

I really wish loki can get some Changes in its abilities,They seem to be very old and beaten by newer frames.

 

Oh and dont forget that other Warframes similar to loki have far better passives

"Any  Slash Procs inflicted by Ash (from both weapons and abilities) deal 25% more damage and last 50% longer."

This is very useful since most of weapons have Slash as preference 

 

"Ivara has an innate radar that detects enemies within 20 meters and displays their position on the minimap. This effect stacks with Animal Instinct, Enemy Radar, Enemy Sense, Stealth Drift, and Vigilante Pursuit."

You dont have to sacrifice a mod for minimap stuff,plus its Good for spy,

 

and Loki...

"Loki's Wall Latch duration is 10 times longer than other Warframes. It lasts 60 seconds compared to the normal 6 seconds."

The only reason why people would use this passive is for riven challenges...nothing more o_o

 

 

Actually imma say that yer right and wrong yes the frames you said about do all those things but that's like 4/5 frames the same way pre buff nyx had abilities that other frames have same as revenant my reasoning that yer wrong is that loki is the only one with all those abilities yeah there may be another frame that does damage redirection better than loki or one that has better invisibility than loki or one that has better swappy teleporty magics than loki or better disarming area attacks than loki but there's not one that does everything that loki does just better plus loki is the fastest frame so he has an advantage there. My argument for yer being right is that the other individual frames do the stuffs better but tbh i don't really think that makes a huge downside to loki plus toss down the hologram right and it can save yer life even if it does get one shot it can buy ya enough time to hop away and heal up (definitely recommend building with the augur set though he kinda needs the super shields)

[(XBOX)Darthgollum 01]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

Why would you be sitting 8n the middle of fire with loki?

Loki is still #1 used frame by vets. I solo a majority of sortie or floods with him when speed and stealth matter and killing does not because I’d rather use something in your face then. His kit is exactly what it needs to be.

Ash is great if you need mobile slaughter and stealth. Ivara is nice for conservation but eh, there’s no format to snipe assasinate anything in this game so shrug.

 

The essence of loki is he is stealth that moves lightning fast. Ivara can’t move at full sprint. 

Never stand still while invisible on a battlefield unless you're a: behind the gunfire or b:me cuz im dumb and love walking close in front of my enemies before blowing their head off with my shotgun XD but seriously standing still or moving slowly is the worst possible idea in the middle of crossfire

[DatDarkOne]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

Em so do I with any number of frames. There’s no real sniper killer like say Zer0.

You might want to look at them again fellow Tenno.  I know one for sure fits this area, and think there might be a couple more that are close.  If you're looking for a frame that is most like Zer0 in both looks, sword, and sniper skills than I would say Ash.  Even he isn't the Sniper Elite that I've used in every aspect of this game.  😄 

[(XBOX)Darthgollum 01]

And i use his passive quite a bit actually since i mostly play against infested when im leveling stuff his passive allows me to simply jump up and stay out of danger while my shields recharge and i can rain death on em too 

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

A base build. So... Tell me what is allowed and what isn't allowed. Because at this point your changing the rules to prove your point. Lol

When you're arguing that Loki is "fine" with a speciality mod, yes, I'm calling it for what it is -- a speciality build.

I was posting about FRAME ABILITIES and the choices of duration and range builds, and the tradeoffs of why the #4 isn't hot (it offers no incentives to trade duration for range that #4 requires).

[(XBOX)Darthgollum 01]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

That sounds good on paper until you're in mission with a Rad Disarm Loki and there are enemies with AoE and ground pound AoE attacks that start hitting teammates.  I've been on the receiving end of that Cluster and the only thing that saved the whole party including the Loki from his own power was me using Sleep on the enemies so they would completely stop.  Dead is the best CC with Sleep being a close second.  

The loki could put a decoy next to the aoe guys i don't think they use it on stuff that's close enough for melee (not sure though) otherwise id simply prioritize them above others

[(PSN)teacup775]

4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You might want to look at them again fellow Tenno.  I know one for sure fits this area, and think there might be a couple more that are close.  If you're looking for a frame that is most like Zer0 in both looks, sword, and sniper skills than I would say Ash.  Even he isn't the Sniper Elite that I've used in every aspect of this game.  😄 

Bore shot and bl2 style bosses and scrub enemies don’t exist in warframe. Niether does execute. I’m not talking looks, but style.

[birdobash]

Thing is the current meta and all the new stuff doesn't fit what loki is absolutely best at, those would be defense, interception, spy(but who cares about spy) and basically any mission type where the goal is not to kill enemies.

Interception you can equip irradiating disarm and you've effectively made the game sit and wait for the interception bar to finish, plus its recastable.

Defense you DON'T equip irradiating disarm, and enemies will become melee, meaning their AI switches to melee AI which means they dont take cover or stall, they run straight to you. Meaning in effect defense missions get sped up and safer at the same time.

Decoy has a neat trick where if you put it in a place enemies cannot shoot or get to, all ranged enemies AI goes and fks itself and goes afk, and stays afk unless you walk within 6 meters of an enemy in which case your target priority spikes higher than the decoy. Melee units are unaffected. Basically backup CC if you're running a solely invis build instead of a hybrid or solely radial disarm.

Since all the recent stuff including fortuna, orb mother, and even slightly older stuff like ESO and arbitrations are not the stuff that loki is good at (unless its arbitration interception or defense interception) it just makes it seem like hes really weak, when in reality he always HAS been weak with stuff outside of this, it's just that theres a lot of content hes not particularly fond of atm.

Although I do think SOME of his abilities could get a little buff, decoy isn't useful if you place it out in the open since its health and damage are abysmal meaning you must always be creative with it, and switch teleport is extremely niche, arguably being his least used ability. Truth of the matter is that loki just like other older frames have aged, hes aged pretty well compared to others but aged nonetheless. Things like his passive and switch teleport are effectively useless, and his decoy is only useful if you KNOW how to abuse enemy AI (which I'm pretty sure is a design flaw they just never took out)

Also I think people are overestimating Baruuks disarm ability, it is way slower than lokis, single target, and it doesn't have many charges unless modded for strength, Anyways most of the time you mainly want the DR from it and not the disarm. Loki still has the best disarm ability because his effects a HUGE radius, disarms every single enemy within that radius, more spammable than desolate hands because loki's other abilities don't take up much energy consumption, and if you want you can give it the augment to give complete CC(albeit this is less useful nowadays)

Edited January 6, 2019 by birdobash

[(XBOX)Darthgollum 01]

4 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

When you're arguing that Loki is "fine" with a speciality mod, yes, I'm calling it for what it is -- a speciality build.

I was posting about FRAME ABILITIES and the choices of duration and range builds, and the tradeoffs of why the #4 isn't hot (it offers no incentives to trade duration for range that #4 requires).

Im kinda confused at what yer getting at i think you're saying why bother adding duration to use his 4? Answer: don't bother there's no incentive to have a duration disarm because as far as i can tell the disarm is permanent if you're making a disarm build id recommend range and strength and strong guns for keeping some distance otherwise use his other abilities more than his 4

[(PSN)teacup775]

8 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Pre-rolling guard. I had more duration or hushed invisibility. gawd mode.

But tenno makes a frame invincible unless channeling. void dash or walk away. i don’t use a mod slot. 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Loki is fine.  

[(XBOX)Darthgollum 01]

5 minutes ago, birdobash said:

Thing is the current meta and all the new stuff doesn't fit what loki is absolutely best at, those would be defense, interception, spy(but who cares about spy) and basically any mission type where the goal is not to kill enemies.

Interception you can equip irradiating disarm and you've effectively made the game sit and wait for the interception bar to finish, plus its recastable.

Defense you DON'T equip irradiating disarm, and enemies will become melee, meaning their AI switches to melee AI which means they dont take cover or stall, they run straight to you. Meaning in effect defense missions get sped up and safer at the same time.

Decoy has a neat trick where if you put it in a place enemies cannot shoot or get to, all ranged enemies AI goes and fks itself and goes afk, and stays afk unless you walk within 6 meters of an enemy in which case your target priority spikes higher than the decoy. Melee units are unaffected. Basically backup CC if you're running a solely invis build instead of a hybrid or solely radial disarm.

Since all the recent stuff including fortuna, orb mother, and even slightly older stuff like ESO and arbitrations are not the stuff that loki is good at (unless its arbitration interception or defense interception) it just makes it seem like hes really weak, when in reality he always HAS been weak with stuff outside of this, it's just that theres a lot of content hes not particularly fond of atm.

Although I do think SOME of his abilities could get a little buff, decoy isn't useful if you place it out in the open since its health and damage are abysmal meaning you must always be creative with it, and switch teleport is extremely niche, arguably being his least used ability.

Actually i like using him on survival though preferably against infested since standing in a corridor at the wall with decoy in the middle of the room makes everything charge at it not you recast as necessary and ofc shoot everything that moves and yer set

[birdobash]

On 2019-01-05 at 1:04 AM, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Ivara is slow in prowl?

You know you can roll and bullet jump in prowl, right?

It’s similar to holding a hobbled dragon key, it only slows your running/ sprinting animations.

The bullet jump only works if you are the host, weird bug for it not to work when not host but it hasn't been addressed yet.

[(PSN)teacup775]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Again, Ivara on Dashwire is insanely fast in Prowl while also being essentially "energy neutral".  Then there is also.....Octavia.   

By the time you’ve shot that arrow, a simple sprinting frame or simply a void dash has already taken another player thru that room and beyond, with less button mashing.

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

I like using him in arbitration survival 

[(XBOX)Darthgollum 01]

2 hours ago, -Sentient- said:

What some people don't seem to remember is how you got to sacrifice lots of slots 

Example : you will use 3 mods for duration,   and 2

 For range, and obviously the important Efficiency and flow, so you got almost no slot for any augment or health mode

So those augments sacrifice a very important slot

Actually i very rarely use flow on any frames let alone loki there's way too many energy orbs for me to bother about that efficiency too cuz augur set actually rewards higher energy costs much better plus again tons of energy orbs (1 gives 25 energy 1 decoy costs 25 energy however that changes and it ends up with the perfectionist in me wanting to use the exact amount of energy to get back up to full plus my build is duration range so id be sitting around for ages waiting for the decoy to run out while trying to avoid collecting energy) i use a bunch of dual stat mods that up range and duration leaving me with more than enough space or switchable mods to include health and augments if i want em

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

By the time you’ve shot that arrow, a simple sprinting frame or simply a void dash has already taken another player thru that room and beyond, with less button mashing.

Maybe, but can they do it in a room full of lasers or that nice huge canyon like bottomless cave area with all the lasers in Lua all without setting off alarms or getting damage.  😄  hehe

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

Maybe, but can they do it in a room full of lasers or that nice huge canyon like bottomless cave area with all the lasers in Lua all without setting off alarms or getting damage.  😄  hehe

God I hate that area in Lua, makes me wish I had an Ivara in my pocket for when it shows up.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

Maybe, but can they do it in a room full of lasers or that nice huge canyon like bottomless cave area with all the lasers in Lua all without setting off alarms or getting damage.  😄  hehe

Bet you the gentleman can 😎

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Darthgollum 01 said:

Actually i very rarely use flow on any frames let alone loki there's way too many energy orbs for me to bother about that efficiency too cuz augur set actually rewards higher energy costs much better plus again tons of energy orbs (1 gives 25 energy 1 decoy costs 25 energy however that changes and it ends up with the perfectionist in me wanting to use the exact amount of energy to get back up to full plus my build is duration range so id be sitting around for ages waiting for the decoy to run out while trying to avoid collecting energy) i use a bunch of dual stat mods that up range and duration leaving me with more than enough space or switchable mods to include health and augments if i want em

Because you're building a RANGE frame for radial disarm.

Most build Loki for duration for Invisibility to survive solo missions, though. Have no use for #1/#3/#4 buttons in solo missions. In groups #1 doesn't last but a few seconds/#3 is a gimmiick to race to extraction/#4 why even use it, I'm sneaking past the mobs!

So #4 needs another function to even use outside of groups.