Is Loki in a not so good position rigth now?

[Sibernetika]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

You say that he is about utility, and that Loki isn’t suppose to be the one killing things.

So why pick him in the first place?

Plenty of other frames that can provide utility and kill things themselves.

Name a damage dealing frame that outperforms Loki when it comes to utility 

12 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Super long duration?

Wit Consitucion,Contiunity,and Augur message you get 21 seconds

With Octavia you get 30 seconds

 

The problem with loki is not his 2 or 4 specifically, but Decoy and Switch Teleport, they are rarely used and have just 1 use.

With octavia you also have to tactical tea bag the ground with a song designed to increase your chances of doing it correctly.

 

Loki is a team oriented you use your abilities in conjunction with the team, his decoy can be either used to quickly S#&$ the enemies attention elsewhere or to keep a disarmed group of enemies chasing it by moving it when they get close to it, and that's how you solo intercept missions with Loki. His 3 is used to either move a high priority enemy or deliver trouble to the enemy, bombards and napalmers would shoot the selfs if you timed switch teleport right.. Everyone here that is really complaining about Loki doesn't use him correctly. 

[trst]

IMO the worst thing about Loki is that he's just boring.

Every ability is fully described with their names alone and he possesses zero interesting combos or synergies with his abilities and augments.

 

On one hand it's kinda nice having a frame that doesn't require an essay to understand what they do but on the other there is nothing "engaging" about playing him.

 

At the very least Loki needs a Revisit like Oberon got; solely adding additional mechanics and scaling on top of what he already has.

Edited January 5, 2019 by trst

[-Sentient-]

7 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:

Name a damage dealing frame that outperforms Loki when it comes to utility 

With octavia you also have to tactical tea bag the ground with a song designed to increase your chances of doing it correctly.

 

Loki is a team oriented you use your abilities in conjunction with the team, his decoy can be either used to quickly S#&$ the enemies attention elsewhere or to keep a disarmed group of enemies chasing it by moving it when they get close to it, and that's how you solo intercept missions with Loki. His 3 is used to either move a high priority enemy or deliver trouble to the enemy, bombards and napalmers would shoot the selfs if you timed switch teleport right.. Everyone here that is really complaining about Loki doesn't use him correctly. 

" His 3 is used to either move a high priority or deliver trouble to the enemy, bombards and napalmers would shoot the selfs if you timed switch teleport right"

This is extremely random and dificult,

Here is how Revenant Thrall is better than decoy to draw fire

1 - you can cast it on an high priority target enemy not only to draw fire,but also to stop a potential threat

2 - he spreads the enthrall virus by shooting other enemies which makes even more cc

 

Btw Remember Disarm cast is very slow unless you sacrifice a Mod slot for a casting speed mod.

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by -Sentient-

[Sibernetika]

14 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

" His 3 is used to either move a high priority or deliver trouble to the enemy, bombards and napalmers would shoot the selfs if you timed switch teleport right"

This is extremely random and dificult,

Here is how Revenant Thrall is better than decoy to draw fire

1 - you can cast it on an high priority target enemy not only to draw fire,but also to stop a potential threat

2 - he spreads the enthrall virus by shooting other enemies which makes even more cc

 

Random thing to do but not difficult. Revenants thralls do draw attention but not all of it, Loki decoy on the other hand pulls the agro of everything in range.. Loki's disarm makes sure they can't shoot you, rad disarm they beat each other up for a time as well, then you can pretend they are cats and use the decoy as a laser pointer and have them chase that. 

I do recall Loki has something called invisibility so he can use disarm a little more safely compared to other enemies with lengthy cast ability, also it ignores obstacles so you can stand pretty much anywhere, like behind a wall and caste it. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Sibernetika

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

23 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:

Name a damage dealing frame that outperforms Loki when it comes to utility 

With octavia you also have to tactical tea bag the ground with a song designed to increase your chances of doing it correctly.

 

Loki is a team oriented you use your abilities in conjunction with the team, his decoy can be either used to quickly S#&$ the enemies attention elsewhere or to keep a disarmed group of enemies chasing it by moving it when they get close to it, and that's how you solo intercept missions with Loki. His 3 is used to either move a high priority enemy or deliver trouble to the enemy, bombards and napalmers would shoot the selfs if you timed switch teleport right.. Everyone here that is really complaining about Loki doesn't use him correctly. 

“Out performs Loki when it comes to utility.”

I feel relatively confident in answering that with “literally any frame that can deal damage with abilities.”

All utility does by itself is draw a fight out, why would you want to disarm an entire room of enemies, when another frame could’ve killed them all in as much time for as much energy?

Edited January 5, 2019 by (PS4)Mono-Pop

[-Sentient-]

5 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:

Random thing to do but not difficult. Revenants thralls do draw attention but not all of it, Loki decoy on the other hand pulls the agro of everything in range.. Loki's disarm makes sure they can't shoot you, rad disarm they beat each other up for a time as well, then you can pretend they are cats and use the decoy as a laser pointer and have them chase that. 

Look I understand what you're trying to say,but while you did all of that,the Mesa,Saryn,Equinox,Volt just cleaned the entire map with its ult or Killed everything with the meme strike atterax 

Maybe Loki is just too tactical for an Press 4 to kill everything game just like Vauban

In the old days CC was king,now its not.

[Sibernetika]

So everyone here is complaining that Loki doesn't clear a room fast enough with his abilities... That's not what his meant for stop trying to change him into something his not. Loki's job is make the damage dealer's job easier at level 300 enemies the damage dealer can't go down if the enemy can't attack the damage dealer.. Loki is still most used frame by the veteran community.. I wonder why is that if his so useless at clearing rooms

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

10 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:

So everyone here is complaining that Loki doesn't clear a room fast enough with his abilities... That's not what his meant for stop trying to change him into something his not. Loki's job is make the damage dealer's job easier at level 300 enemies the damage dealer can't go down if the enemy can't attack the damage dealer.. Loki is still most used frame by the veteran community.. I wonder why is that if his so useless at clearing rooms

I thought Gara was the current veteran poster girl?

A frame that can make her allies unkillable, while also contributing to the actual fight.

Edited January 5, 2019 by (PS4)Mono-Pop

[Sibernetika]

Nope guara was the poster girl for account bans

[dEjAvU5566]

If aoe disarm and invisibility are not good positions enough, then I dont what it is.

Oh ya, he doesnt have 95% dmg reduction and exalt knife which shoots shockwave that can clear the whole room in one swing.

If thats the "positions" you are looking...
 

Also, being one shot in invisibility is not loki's problem, who playing loki is.

This can be applied to every frame who has invisibility.

[kikasnoob]

22 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:

So everyone here is complaining that Loki doesn't clear a room fast enough with his abilities... That's not what his meant for stop trying to change him into something his not. Loki's job is make the damage dealer's job easier at level 300 enemies the damage dealer can't go down if the enemy can't attack the damage dealer.. Loki is still most used frame by the veteran community.. I wonder why is that if his so useless at clearing rooms

I think those complaining about Loki not being able to clear rooms fast enough haven't spent the time in game to fully understand what he is capable of, because the fact is, he is more than capable of clearing a room faster than any other frame.

[Marvelous_A]

Loki is mostly a solo stealth frame. He's in a weird spot really.

He didn't get any nerf and he still works well as intended. Disarm is still an useful CC and ID is still an useful augment.

You can still do a lot of weird useful tricks with Decoy+ST. All his abilities scales indefinitely coz they provide only utility.

I don't think he needs buff. But he's outclassed in stealth (and since we have operator now there isn't really that much need of a dedicated stealth frame).

If anything I'd say the introduction of Octavia matters a lot to him coz she can refresh invisibility (for the whole team) with no window. And most people use Loki now go only for invisibility really.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[Ifacro]

Decoy and Switch should be the same ability (when cast on empty space = deploys a decoy; when cast on a decoy/enemy/ally = switcharoo), opening up his 3rd ability for something offensive.

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, -Sentient- said:

Invisibility: Ash,Octavia,Ivara,all of them has this too,but of course loki invisibility still beats them,thats good rigth?

Problem is Loki still gets shoot while invisible due to the heavy fire around him,and we all know Loki is squishy

Disarm:This ability is good,disarming enemies rigth? Oh so good..

 

 

This just made me /picardfacepalm so hard.

You just presented the solution to him being shot at while in stealth, use disarm. Max your range and efficiency and nothing will ever be able to shoot at anything. Just dont pick up the trash mod that is Irradiating Disarm since it will slow down defense missions etc.

Loki currently does the whole CC jig so much better that Nyx or any other frame because he removes the weapons for the enemy, covering a whole map. This leads to very fast clear times because everything comes running and nothing stops to shoot.

They really cant make Loki much better because he is the best at what he does currently.

So for everything besides Spy you pretty much go with a full range plus efficiency setup with some duration. For Spy you go with full dura and efficiency. Nothing will be as fast and safe as Loki.

Edited January 5, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[HorridaMessor]

OP, you mean that frame that can:

a) Completely bamboozle enemy AI with his 1 when you put a little creativity with the placement of the decoy;

b) run in stealth indefinetly in a proper build, because he regains more energy that his invisibility costs while being stealthed, and have full access to his kit while invisible while dishing out increased damage;

c) make his allies INVULERNABLE (as in ONE HUNDRED PERCENT DAMAGE REDUCTION) with an augment for ability that also allows him to completely trivialize any and all spy vaults and also can hide mobile defence targets in map geometry and do neat little tricks like speeding up drone escorts;

d) can make EVERY SINGLE MOB NOT PROTECTED BY NULLIFIER BUBBLE lose their range weapons, and with augment MAKE THEM FIGHT EACH OTHER WIHTOUT FAILURE and also DISABLES EVERY EXIMI SPECIAL ABILITY (flame blast, toxic cloud, snow globe) ALONGSIDE MAKING ENEMY NOT BENEFITING FROM ANCIENTS AURAS FOR NINE SECONDS with its augment

is in "not so good position"???
Are you nuts?

 

Only thing I can tell you is - git gud, casul

 

[HorridaMessor]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

All utility does by itself is draw a fight out, why would you want to disarm an entire room of enemies, when another frame could’ve killed them all in as much time for as much energy?

You can't kill a full room of lvl 1000+ enemies for 55 energy, while I can with a press of a single button a) remove their ranged weapons and b) make them fight each other.

[HugintheCrow]

6 hours ago, clxrffdman said:

You cant bullet jump in prowl, only roll. If you bullet jump or sprint it breaks the invis

You can in fact bullet jump in prowl.

1. Stand still.

2. Crouch.

3. Press Jump

Congratulations you just bullet jumped.

Here is a gif: 

 

You can also double jump, and aim glide.

Edited January 5, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

6 hours ago, trst said:

IMO the worst thing about Loki is that he's just boring.

Every ability is fully described with their names alone and he possesses zero interesting combos or synergies with his abilities and augments.

 

On one hand it's kinda nice having a frame that doesn't require an essay to understand what they do but on the other there is nothing "engaging" about playing him.

 

At the very least Loki needs a Revisit like Oberon got; solely adding additional mechanics and scaling on top of what he already has.

Hey!

Limbo does not require an essay.  Just a mathematics degree.....

[(PSN)Grnmchn1]

Loki is still my go to for spy. He can stay invisible longer and slide! I'm too lazy to roll and double jump. Plus channeling isnt my thing.

Just cast zenurik, go invisible, repeat

[Azamagon]

I would say Loki is still in a good spot, but he is honestly a little bland. Some small adjustments too his skills and augments could be in order. For example:

Decoy

• Recasting the skill while a Decoy is active destroys the Decoy (good for stealth, if you just wanna Switch with it real fast)
• The Decoy's shields have a greatly heightened regeneration speed, with little-to-no delay. This shield regeneration bonus is affected by ability strength.
• Upon the Decoy's death or expiration, it causes a radial shockwave of X meters, which briefly stuns nearby enemies (works well with the recast-uncast too)
• Augment revamped; Flash Decoy - Causes enemies hit by the shockwave to also be opened for finishers while they are stunned, and increases the casting speed of Decoy by 15/25/35/50%

Switch Teleport

• Holdcast this ability to automatically switch with your Decoy, if the Decoy is within castrange and line of sight (pure QoL for easier Decoy-swaps)
• Casting on an enemy which is alerted will proc Radiation on that enemy.
• Casting on an enemy, regardless if it's alerted or not, increases its damage taken by 40/60/80/100% (strength-modifiable) for a few seconds (like 3/4/5/6 seconds, duration-modifiable)
• Augment buffed; In addition to its current effects, it also grants the old bonus from Savior Decoy as well. Meaning this is the augment's effects: "After teleporting with an ally they will be invulnerable for 3/4/5/6 seconds. In addition, if Loki takes fatal damage, Decoy absorbs the damage and swaps locations (this latter effect now buffed to only have a 60/40/50/30 sec cooldown)."

Invisibility

• Enemies who are within X meter range of Loki (range-modifiable), while he is invisible, are highlighted (similar to the aiming effect of Argonak), highlighting colour determined by your energy colour. Just meant as a QoL-addition, considering his flashlight is turned off for the duration.

Radial Disarm

• In addition, enemies hit by this ability (wethered disarmed or not) also have a debuff on them for X seconds (duration-modifiable), visualized by a rune placed on them, which causes any damage they deal to also be dealt back to themselves, with that return damage being amplified by 50/100/150/200% (strength-modifiable), meaning that if they deal 10 damage to your Decoy, they themselves will suffer 15/20/25/30 damage. All this damage counts as Loki's damage dealt. Since this effect doesn't rely on actually disarming enemies, this means it also works on melee units and bosses!
• Maybe rename the ability to Runic Disarm, to both suit better with the above and to follow the norse theme a bit better?

[Rawbeard]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

What does Loki do then? Because the OP highlighted the fact that on every ability, Loki is outperformed by multiple frames.

yeah, no other frame can stay invisible that long while being essentially energy neutral and insanely fast. git gud, boi. not everything needs to be about mass aoe room clearing.

[TeneKay]

2 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

You can in fact bullet jump in prowl.

1. Stand still.

2. Crouch.

3. Press Jump

Congratulations you just bullet jumped.

Here is a gif: 

 

You can also double jump, and aim glide.

This only works if you're host, and I am pretty sure it's a bug. It never works for me unless I am host.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

9 hours ago, clxrffdman said:

You cant bullet jump in prowl, only roll. If you bullet jump or sprint it breaks the invis

Uh, yes you can bullet jump in Prowl. Try activating the command to bullet jump without initially sliding. It works.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

“Out performs Loki when it comes to utility.”

I feel relatively confident in answering that with “literally any frame that can deal damage with abilities.”

All utility does by itself is draw a fight out, why would you want to disarm an entire room of enemies, when another frame could’ve killed them all in as much time for as much energy?

Pretty much took the words out of my mouth, but I would’ve said “Ash” and put more kindle into the flames that is fuming in this discussion.

[Lancars]

Don't touch loki with any reworks. Hes fine. Only thing i'd change is the 4th ability animation. Sometimes I've ended up stepping off a rail or something.