Forma / Polarity Ideas!

[Jazoom]

Dear DE,

My name is Jazoom and I’ve been playing this game for several years now. Over these years there have been great positive changes that strongly improve game play. However, one of the biggest issues that have come into discussion is formas. A really cool thing is that this game is very fluid, new weapons, warframes, and mods are released that offer new versatility in game play; however, this carries an issue which has now gotten to the point that this fluidity has outgrown some of the original designs of the game – one of which is forma. The forma system was designed for a version of the game that didn’t have all the warframes/mods/weapons as it does now.

Currently we have the ability to forma a weapon or warframe to allow less drain on capacity so we can fit more mods into the warframe. Any veteran will tell you that the mods are what create all the power in the game. The weapons and warframes allow the abilities to be used but the mods allow us to calibrate the weapons or warframes. One of the main issues is that with better mechanics and fights, better and more versatile builds are required by the community to increase mission complete time, ex. The old raids / Eidolons / Orb fight #1.

I understand that you (DE) are starting to introduce more challenging fights that requires more cooperative game play from squad members and their roles in order to succeed.

 

Issue#1

There are times when builds require heavy investment into certain polarities. That is great, I don’t mind the forma and levelling that is required to optimize that warframe/weapon for the mission type. My problem is what about certain warframes that have multiple build types?
 

l  Most strength mods are Madurai polarity ( V )

l  Most survivability mods are Vazarin polarity ( D )

 

Certain Warframes have multiple builds such as Rhino or Volt. Maximum range and duration builds CLASH with strength builds but the problem starts here. If I want to make a speed volt that includes Many Strength mods, and then I want to make a build for a CC volt that is mainly range and duration, mod polarities don’t align. Even more so when all your mods are maxed (14 – 16 drain on many of these mods). With the release of Umbral mods, we are now presented with more capacity issues.

Issue#2

Warframes can use different aura mods, sometimes benefitting the team with armor strip or shield reduction, but what if I use that same warframe and want to use growing power or Steel charge? Some of these aura polarities are great but they bind us to types of game play. To elaborate, if I want a different aura polarity? Instead of re-forma then levelling, I’d rather just build another of the same warframe with a different aura slot. Now, I can do this because I trade regularly, I’m also high Mastery Rank and have pretty much every meta weapon, useful weapons, fun and even some fodder weapons completely forma-ed. I have 2 volt primes, one with a dash aura for corrosive projection which helps for eidolon builds, I have another with a V polarity for steel charge super speed. I can do this, but most players in this game will not. Sure that separates the end-game players from casuals BUT I think there are better ways to address this issue.

 

Dash (naramon polarity) Aura

 

 

VS.

 

V (madurai polarity) Aura

 

 

Suggestion 1

Keep drain costs but remove polarities from the game. Forma provide a 50% reduction to drain as they did before but with no polarity. That allows for greater versatility yet retains the same amount of work to level and pre-plan.

Suggestion 2

Introduce a forma prime or flex-forma, one that allows a player to CHANGE a mod slot to any polarity from the arsenal menu once the forma has been used on that slot. In this case, players will have to re-level the weapon/warframe to maximum. This allows players more versatility but careful planning on polarities is still required.

Suggestion 3

Once a mod slot has a polarity, you can forma again OVER that same slot with another polarity allowing for access to not only the NEW polarity but the OLD one as well.

 

This allows players to not have to buy separate warframes to accommodate additional builds, smoothen entry to end game for players moving up the ranks and learning the benefits of modding as they grow.

 

I am just a player that has played this game for years because I love the versatility it offers. As a player I hope that you can see what some of us face not only for ourselves, but also for friends/clanmates that want to join some of the more challenging content. I truly hope that this suggestion sees the light of day.

Thank you for taking the time to read all of this!
With greatest appreciation for the work you do DE,

 

Most Sincerely,

Jazoom 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Jazoom

[SeraphielSolari]

This is actually really important to me as i'm slowly reaching endgame.

While Suggestion 1 kinda conflicts lore wise with the Operator focus schools, suggestion 2 and 3 give me reasons to continue farming/using formas on my frames and weapons (maybe the Forma Prime/ Flex Forma could be crafted from  normal formas, 5 formas for each polarity plus 1 for blank)

 

[toxicitzi]

I'm a fan of the first suggestion, it's something I've wanted in the game for a long time because it's ridiculous capitalizing on Formas for this.

At the same time, I don't mind suggestion #3 at all, it's good. At least it's a hell of a lot better from how things are now and it doesn't add unnecessary triple, quadruple, or quintuple re-formas of the same slots.

 

It would certainly be nice if player's efforts were recognized and not made to be felt as though time and resources were 100% wasted, the situation right now is what makes me hold on to formas like a mad hoarder.

[Teridax68]

I agree with the criticism and most of the proposed suggestions, particularly suggestion 3: in its current state, Forma runs counter to the game's general promise of fluidity and freedom of customization, because polarities restrict players' options by making the inclusion of certain mods costlier. As such, unless the player plans far ahead, it becomes increasingly difficult for them to try out new builds as they put Forma into their frames, because if that build uses mods with completely different polarities, they will clash with the frame's polarized slots. In general, I dislike Forma in that it exists purely to increase the player's power, rather than truly give them more options, but I also acknowledge that DE may not be willing to get rid of that mechanic for a long time, as it's an income generator in a free-to-play game.

With this in mind, I think you could go with a slightly amended Suggestion 1, plus Suggestion 3, to make Forma more engaging to the player, while potentially encouraging the purchase/building of even more Forma: if the same slot could have multiple different polarities, but on top of that polarities imposed no drain penalty to mismatched mods, then the result would be a much more freeform system: adding Forma would be a purely beneficial process, since you would not only enable whichever build you're working towards, but would also not damage your current options in any way: if a mod were to find itself in the "wrong" polarity, it would not impose any additional drain, and if the player really wanted to reduce the drain on top of that, they could just Forma that same slot again, without losing their previous polarities. Players could therefore put 38 Forma on a single warframe, and make progress each time by adding a new polarity to a slot, on top of the others, and thereby unlocking even more freedom of options each time, even if they'd hit a power cap much earlier on. With this, the game could offer more options to the player, avoid doing so with any more vertical power creep (you wouldn't be able to put more mods if you already have a full build), and encourage players to build/buy more Forma just so that they can show off their dedication to a single frame or weapon.

[EvansR]

I made a post just yesterday with the same topic, but definitely not as well laid out and not as many ideas as to solutions to the issues. Can you explain a little more about suggestion 1 and 2? #3 is the same idea I had, which I think would be great, but curious about the other two and not really sure what you mean.

[Jazoom]

On 2019-01-18 at 9:22 PM, EvansR said:

I made a post just yesterday with the same topic, but definitely not as well laid out and not as many ideas as to solutions to the issues. Can you explain a little more about suggestion 1 and 2? #3 is the same idea I had, which I think would be great, but curious about the other two and not really sure what you mean.

Sure thing EvansR!

 

" Suggestion 1

Keep drain costs but remove polarities from the game. Forma provide a 50% reduction to drain as they did before but with no polarity. That allows for greater versatility yet retains the same amount of work to level and pre-plan. "

Currently, when we forma anything, we are prompted to assign a polarity of choice to a mod slot of choice. If you wanted to assign Vitality to that warframe you could then select the D polarity and assign it to the mod slot of choice. Vitality (maxed) is a 12 drain mod but with a forma it would be reduced to 6. If for some reason in another config (we have 3 configs A, B and C) - we didn't want to use a 'D' polarity this is where potential issues may arise. Suggestion 1 involves the discontinuation of polarities all together (the symbols). Thus, the Vitality mod would no longer have a D polarity, nor would the mod slot. The cost associated with a maxed Vitality in that slot, would be reduced to a cost of 6. If instead I wanted to use primed continuity which has a drain of 14, it would now be 7.

 

" Suggestion 2

Introduce a forma prime or flex-forma, one that allows a player to CHANGE a mod slot to any polarity from the arsenal menu once the forma has been used on that slot. In this case, players will have to re-level the weapon/warframe to maximum. This allows players more versatility but careful planning on polarities is still required. "

This would involve the release of a new type of forma all together let's just call it 'forma prime'. Once forma prime is used, that mod slot can in the future be altered without levelling or using another forma. To further explain, let's say I use forma prime in my most top left mod slot for a warframe. It would reset the warframe back to 0 requiring the warframe to be levelled again to max. Currently it is a D, so I can use Vitality at a reduced cost. Let's say in another build I decided that I needed more V polarities, I could reassign the polarity (through a pull down menu or in the actions menu) to another polarity of choice. This means that the top most left mod slot is versatile, providing players with more options.

If hope this explanation helps you EvansR, if not please do not hesitate to PM me in game.

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Jazoom
Incorrect wording

[EvansR]

41 minutes ago, Jazoom said:

Sure thing EvansR!

 

" Suggestion 1

Keep drain costs but remove polarities from the game. Forma provide a 50% reduction to drain as they did before but with no polarity. That allows for greater versatility yet retains the same amount of work to level and pre-plan. "

Currently, when we forma anything, we are prompted to assign a polarity of choice to a mod slot of choice. If you wanted to assign Vitality to that warframe you could then select the D polarity and assign it to the mod slot of choice. Vitality (maxed) is a 12 drain mod but with a forma it would be reduced to 6. If for some reason in another config (we have 3 configs A, B and C) - we didn't want to use a 'D' polarity this is where potential issues may arise. Suggestion 1 involves the discontinuation of polarities all together (the symbols). Thus, the Vitality mod would no longer have a D polarity, nor would the mod slot. The cost associated with a maxed Vitality is still 12 and if I decide I to use Vitality in that slot, it would be reduced to a cost of 6. If instead I wanted to use primed continuity which has a drain of 14, it would now be 7.

 

" Suggestion 2

Introduce a forma prime or flex-forma, one that allows a player to CHANGE a mod slot to any polarity from the arsenal menu once the forma has been used on that slot. In this case, players will have to re-level the weapon/warframe to maximum. This allows players more versatility but careful planning on polarities is still required. "

This would involve the release of a new type of forma all together let's just call it 'forma prime'. Once forma prime is used, that mod slot can in the future be altered without levelling or using another forma. To further explain, let's say I use forma prime in my most top left mod slot for a warframe. It would reset the warframe back to 0 requiring the warframe to be levelled again to max. Currently it is a D, so I can use Vitality at a reduced cost. Let's say in another build I decided that I needed more V polarities, I could reassign the polarity (through a pull down menu or in the actions menu) to another polarity of choice. This means that the top most left mod slot is versatile, providing players with more options.

If hope this explanation helps you EvansR, if not please do not hesitate to PM me in game.

 

Thanks for the explanation! Suggestion 1 would definitely make the whole process easier, although I doubt DE would completely remove polarities from the game. I think someone mentioned that rather than a penalty for mismatched mod polarity, it just would be the base cost, I think that would be a better version of Suggestion 1, but should be combined with 2 or 3. Suggestion 2 sounded like a better version of Suggestion 3, they seemed so similiar so it confused me a little. 

 

Personally, with all 3 options considered, the revised Suggestion 1 plus Suggestion 3 would be the best combination. Then maybe the "prime forma" from Suggestion 2 could be something SUPER rare (somewhere around as rare as legendary cores) as well. Anyway, great post and great ideas, here's hoping it gets seen and implemented some day.

Edited January 18, 2019 by EvansR

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Agree with the op, forma needs fixed.

Old suggestions that would also help - allow us to forma each config separately, no need then for multiple frames - queue forma in the foundry - introduce an augment only slot - umbral forma NOW.

Also, one of my main bugbears is why cold elemental damage is a D when all other damage types are V?   This really messes up a lot of builds.

[toxicitzi]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

Also, one of my main bugbears is why cold elemental damage is a D when all other damage types are V?   This really messes up a lot of builds.

Because,  as a lore Grand Vizier, as it is written in the manuscripts, "DE has been Cold with the community about it" and thus, it was so.

[Nitro747]

They could start by giving exilus mods a specific "exilus" polarity so we can swap those more frequently.

[Spagoofy]

me personally, suggestion 3 is my favorite. commitment to perfection of a certain weapon, would really be rewarded. the grind would still remain but the rewards would be substantially more sensible.

[DrivaMain]

I would love a special forma that cost 5 forma to craft that allows you to switch polarity in a slot without polarizing the slot again. This will help players try out new builds and reduce the “meta” complains.

[KnightGear47]

I agree with @(XB1)Hyperion Rexx About the possibility of being able to forma each Load-out / Config separately rather then all sharing the same Forma Change 

[Jazoom]

18 hours ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

Agree with the op, forma needs fixed.

Old suggestions that would also help - allow us to forma each config separately, no need then for multiple frames - queue forma in the foundry - introduce an augment only slot - umbral forma NOW.

Also, one of my main bugbears is why cold elemental damage is a D when all other damage types are V?   This really messes up a lot of builds.

@(XB1)Hyperion Rexx, I agree. I think that the V and D slot does present many build issues especially with primed cryo rounds vs. other weapon element damage mods. One thing though, just to clarify. If DE did allow us to forma every config, if I were to forma a Volt 4x, does that mean config B is still naked? or every config now has 4 polarity options?

Edited January 19, 2019 by Jazoom

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

9 hours ago, Jazoom said:

@(XB1)Hyperion Rexx, I agree. I think that the V and D slot does present many build issues especially with primed cryo rounds vs. other weapon element damage mods. One thing though, just to clarify. If DE did allow us to forma every config, if I were to forma a Volt 4x, does that mean config B is still naked? or every config now has 4 polarity options?

I would suggest that configuration B would be "naked".  You'd have to change the mods in A for a diff build using those forma'd slots.  You can then forma B and C with different polarities, if some of them happen to be the same as what you put in A that can't be helped.  Reasonable trade off for the far greater diversity we could then use in our builds imo. 

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2019-01-18 at 7:52 AM, Jazoom said:

Once a mod slot has a polarity, you can forma again OVER that same slot with another polarity allowing for access to not only the NEW polarity but the OLD one as well.

This is the best idea. It doesn't undo existing investments in forma and doesn't devalue the process. It solves the problem in a way that makes it worth investing more forma in your favourite gear, where at the moment you have to choose between more power at the cost of only really fitting one specific build.

On 2019-01-18 at 10:32 AM, Teridax68 said:

polarities imposed no drain penalty to mismatched mods, 

I like this idea, but I'm not sure. I think there should be some restriction to forma - as you increase in power you decrease in potential, which makes sense. I think if we can add multiple polarities we don't need this. Maybe have an exception for stances though.

On 2019-01-18 at 1:45 PM, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

allow us to forma each config separately, no need then for multiple frames

This would end up costing a lot of forma. Some frames (like Titania, with two exhalted weapons) would end up needing 30 or so forma just to have anti-grineer, anti-corpus and anti-levantis/haemocyte builds.

For instance, most weapons want 4-5 V's (usually damage, multishot, crit chance and crit damage) followed by -, D, V depending on elements (and possibly rivens) to reach max potential. 

I'd rather be able to make one slot forma for both - and D so I can switch between corrosive and viral damage as needed.

Edited January 19, 2019 by (XB1)KayAitch

[Teridax68]

3 hours ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

I like this idea, but I'm not sure. I think there should be some restriction to forma - as you increase in power you decrease in potential, which makes sense. I think if we can add multiple polarities we don't need this. Maybe have an exception for stances though.

I personally think it makes no sense at all. Forma is meant to be this wonder material that unlocks infinite potential: it's used in essentially every part of Orokin construction, applies universally to almost any matter in order to enhance it, as it works just as well on warframes as it does on any other Orokin tech, and is itself able to alter its own shape and structure. The absolute last thing it should do is restrict potential on anything. Moreover, the very notion of decreasing in potential is the polar opposite of Warframe's stated fantasy, as the game and developers clearly intend for the player to increase their potential, and gain access to as many options as the game can offer. There is therefore no real gameplay reason for a system that reduces the player's options, particularly when the consequences of that particular quirk have been purely negative.

[MirageKnight]

I believe it was leaked on Reddit that two additional types of Forma might be released in the future: Yes there were screenshots.

An Umbral Forma that allows you to forma a slot with the Umbral Polarity and another (I forget the name) that allows you to add a polarity to a mod slot without having to re-level the weapon or 'Frame.

Whether or not these will actually see the light of day is another matter entirely.

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by MirageKnight

[Shelusine]

Suggestion 2 and 3 are great. Formaing multiple times a single slot to have 2 polarity possibility in one slot is very needed. Suggestion 1 would be a mess, imo. 

55 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

I believe it was leaked on Reddit that two additional types of Forma might be released in the future: Yes there were screenshots.

The umbral and omega forma ? They are not really addressing what OP is talking about. Furthermore while the umbral forma would be great, the omega forma is seriously useless... It takes 2min to level a weapon nowdays, I don't see the point of these formas. 

[torint_man]

Suggestion 3 would be the best, with the added caveat that you would need a special forma to do so, preferably involving an ingredient that only drops from an endgame boss, such as hypothetically the exploiter orb. While I don't think that what you've outlined in your post is actually a problem (99% of the time you can just plan out which slots you need to forma to get a compatible build), if DE actually decides to gives us the rest of the primed elemental mods, the fact that cold mods are D polarity will pay of big time for them as they would encourage a great amount of D/dash multi polarities to be made. 

[MirageKnight]

31 minutes ago, Shelusine said:

They are not really addressing what OP is talking about

Oh sorry, I thought I was contributing useful and pertinent information to the discussion because it was about Forma and what people would like it to do. My bad.

31 minutes ago, Shelusine said:

the omega forma is seriously useless... It takes 2min to level a weapon nowdays

Citation please, otherwise that's little more than opinionated hyperbole.

33 minutes ago, torint_man said:

Suggestion 3 would be the best, with the added caveat that you would need a special forma to do so, preferably involving an ingredient that only drops from an endgame boss, such as hypothetically the exploiter orb.

That seems reasonable - and yes I think suggestion 3 would probably be the most beneficial to the player-base.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Suggestion 4: Applying a polarity halves the drain cost when matched, and simply has no penalty when mismatched. Mods are adjusted to have polarities distributed more evenly.

Thus, Forma is still a tool allowing for certain "specialized" builds, but doesn't carry the negative of preventing you from using other builds if you feel like it. You just don't get the amazing capacity bonuses.

[Shelusine]

 

23 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Citation please, otherwise that's little more than opinionated hyperbole.

Citation ? I am not sure of what you mean but going by context does that mean that you didn't know ? if so.

Took 3:30mins for this one but with affinity booster it's less than 2mins

Edited January 21, 2019 by Shelusine

[MirageKnight]

17 hours ago, Shelusine said:

I feel obliged to respond to this fair sarcasm by a fair comparison.

Edit: Yes that would be warranted if that were sarcasm, but it wasn't. Apologies for seeming a bit put out earlier.

17 hours ago, Shelusine said:

I am not sure of what you mean but going by context does that mean that you didn't know ?

Citation means referring to evidence or a source to back up a claim. Which you seem to have done, so much appreciated.

17 hours ago, Shelusine said:

Took 3:30mins for this one but with affinity booster it's less than 2mins

I typically level my gear on Helene or Hydron, so I'll need to verify actual times in ESO.

IF that claim is correct, then DE has really shot themselves in the foot if they don't want us burning through content...but that's another topic altogether.

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by MirageKnight
Issue resolved in PM and post changed to reflect that.

[Jazoom]

On 2019-01-20 at 11:01 AM, Shelusine said:

Suggestion 2 and 3 are great. Formaing multiple times a single slot to have 2 polarity possibility in one slot is very needed. Suggestion 1 would be a mess, imo. 

The umbral and omega forma ? They are not really addressing what OP is talking about. Furthermore while the umbral forma would be great, the omega forma is seriously useless... It takes 2min to level a weapon nowdays, I don't see the point of these formas. 

Thanks for the input. I agree, omega formas and umbral formas will not address the issue of having a permanent aura polarity nor versatility we need in the game at this point.