Nightwave : second batch of missions, and the things you need to correct.

[mikakor]

We get them. and the feedback is instant, DE. like it's nothing that made a big announcement, the second wave just came without a noise, but the noises the community made surely got loud...

first : Nobody want to be FORCED to do a mission with a friend. all it makes is forcing people to add "fake friend" and delete them once it's done.get this kind of conditions out of the system.

second : .... one hour survival with a friend? ... DE... you are actively going against endless missions, and your only true attempt at that ( with at least good chunk of endo, that even as a vet still need ) and you are forcing a one hour survival on peoples? ... life doesn't work like this. you made endless survival irrelevant because you gain absolutely nothing from it, so why making tasks like this? change endless missions to be actually rewarding. then we'll see. 

third : ... a one hour Kuva survival? you mean the same Kuva survival that is not worth doing over the other normal kuva missions? that just looks like you're trying to force people into doing this particular mode. here is a thing for you DE. make the kuva survival reward in Kuva SCALE with time, and then people will go to it. i know i will happily do. but forcing people to go there isn't the way to go. improve the rewards of every endless missions, and especially kuva, and then people will do them.

fourth : Kuva Survival without using any life support capsule? ho great. so it's absolutely not something to do in pub, because you just need one A-hole to pop a capsule at 59 minutes to turn a one hour boring-fest into pure despair after you realize what the other A-hole playing with you have done. DON"T make tasks that can be grieffed so easily.

Fifth : 5000 standing for a one hour mission? maybe you should go back to re-balance the ratio time/reward.

Edited March 4, 2019 by mikakor

[Aerionoth]

Yeah... Elite and Challenging are not valid synonyms for Tedious and Boring. If you're making me snooze through an hour of trash, then make it worth my time; 30k standing should do just fine for wasting an hour of my life on absolutely nothing of value whatsoever.

I'll be honest, the second I've seen the crap I need to slog through on the 2nd week of this farcical "fix" for a system that was never broken, I wanted to just drop it altogether; I am NOT looking forward to 8 weeks of this before I get the only 3 things I want from the whole event...

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

change endless missions to be actually rewarding. then we'll see

I have a feeling they consider giving you 5K Nightwave standing to be doing exactly that.

1 hour ago, mikakor said:

it's absolutely not something to do in pub, because you just need one A-hole to pop a capsule at 59 minutes

On a related note, for those of us playing with context action and reload on the same button, I would really appreciate reload taking priority over life support pickup. Accidentally picking up life support while meaning to reload, which does happen to me occasionally, has just gone from a three-second annoyance to something that can potentially induce hardware-breaking rage.

Edited March 4, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Nyx219]

There's no way I'm doing any of the friend/clanmates ones. Our clan is a "work clan", meaning me, my husband and a few of his coworkers. Everyone is at the mercy of scheduling and actual real-life commitments, and often don't cross paths in WF for months. Even if I were to just go at those challenges with my husband, it's still a matter of having the time in the first place, which he often doesn't have to dedicate to this new system. He wants to hop in, run some random alerts, or do a story chapter if it's That Time. Not check off a lengthy bullet points list before he can even get his reward. Suffice it to say, he will not be logging back in at all anymore. He doesn't have time for this and sees no incentive to it at all (thanks, DE...)

I prefer to solo play anyway, so I'm definitely not going to go groveling the chats for a temp friend to do them with, either. Bad, bad choice on DE's part. Well, one of many horrendous choices they made regarding NW, but still.

 

 

[Doctor-Palooka]

Is this a psychological experiment?  Want to see what percentage of players that will lap up any insult spewed out and then ask for 2nds?

This is a gut punch to the new system.  This kills fun.

Hotfix these boneheaded missions out of existence,  don't make us wait for the next week.   Honor any Clem that bothered doing these with the standing earned ( or maybe a unique dunce cap accessory for the Operator to wear) and bring back wanting to complete missions in this game for sake of FUN.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Doctor-Palooka

[(PSN)santospizarro]

my ideas for nightwave] she should use differnt condensors and mask to change her appearance and voice until we get co-hosting personalities who cover each planet or game mode, say one who is pvp enthused or the other who marks the rebirth of lunaro and have good music for missions to be interesting, she provides good synthesis and keeps fighting interesting i think they did well, with her, but its really early build, so people have to keep patient  WAVE representatives and different rewards should be based on who is hosting, simular to syndicate  and alert they should give up some new weapons and mod recomendations, involving cetus and fortuna in the future hints to large monsters and new enemies or escapes, i dont like temporary and special events because they are a waste of assets once removed], i dont think the system should replace alerts, the alerts were interesting and should be weaved into the radio all together this system is good because it brings challenge to boring and revisiting, the operators should benefit the most with floofs and rewards, i think the personality and mood is right but should be controled by a set of personalities and planet weather or system to improve it, see she talks clear always in a way she got things to talk about, but i need lotus, and other people to step in to provide more serious things to keep me going, the system will improve, i hope she a pvp and lunaro commentator or enthusiastic cetus youth, the market could use a simular system, the star chart is in need of revamping, the controls are awful, and expensive graphics honestly reorganizing these asetts later will reduce loading times. [the logo for the radio and nightwave are REALLY obvious, some modifications would be shape and pulse magnetism made posible with animation mouseovers, to make some nightwave really kick add lunaro and operator gear, and some untradable items and blueprints, eventually a few warframes and other parts or items that players would rather get from the radio.] 

[Jfalz]

I don't know, I'm pretty antisocial but I didn't find it too difficult to get a kuva group going in LFG chat, add everyone as a friend and then do the mission.  We had a really good time actually.  Maybe I got lucky with getting a good group.  Plus I can use the kuva to roll the Zaw riven that DE gave out on Friday =D.  PLUS I knocked off a bunch of the other challenges while doing the mission.

That said, the "with a friend" step does seem pretty unnecessary.  Having to add a random friend just to do a mission, then say BYE after and never speak to them again, does not add any value, challenge, or fun to the mission.  I mean you never know, maybe some people will actually gain lasting friendships out of this, but I doubt the majority of players will.  

[Kazzamo]

Adding my voice too, really not liking the with a friend missions, and 60 min survival is just torture. I'd be fine with say maybe 30 min like that last alert was. Heck the 5 ayatan were better than this I think.

[(XBOX)alf swarm]

You only have to do ~60% of the challenges to max out. I played the 60 min kuva survival with my friends, loved it, and got 16,000 nightwave standing. Every time some even slightly 'challenging' or time consuming content is added the community asks for the game to be made easier. The MAIN REASON most of the people I know don't want to play warframe is because it's too easy. Please keep some challenges like this every week for players that actually want to play the game, have a bit more challenge, and don't think playing your game for 60 minutes is 'torture'.

Edited March 4, 2019 by (XB1)alf swarm

[(PSN)JustitiaCaelum]

I agree. These "acts" needs to be hotfixed ASAP, not after this week. There is nothing elite and challenging about these 1hr survivals. It is just boring and tedious and it goes against what DE had been promoting: bite size content, and I, and I believe quite a few others, have come to respect that. Because warframe is fundamentally fun, even in short bursts. 

If this is still back in the times of void keys, it would be a minor annoyance since most people at the time were already encouraged, and therefore conditioned, to stay in mission as long as possible. But you can't be promoting bite size content and then suddenly turn around and say "here do this for 1 hr because it can be done". 

[Tails_lol]

i think this is true i think the alert system should be back but it should give nightwave standing or tokens .

it will be the best of both worlds.

should add credits and resources too in rewards

[JHarlequin]

 With a friend is a nice idea, but it seems a bit much for this.  It also seems more like a "Hey bring your friends to play warframe with you."  If they wanted to play, they already would.  Still, bringing a friend or making a temporary friend is not a major issue.

 The worst issue, as said is the one hour grinds.  A lot of people always say that they don't have an hour to play.  Other people just do not like survival that much.  It may be the elite challenge, but an hour is not really an elite challenge it is just not peeing for an hour and rinse repeating they cheesiest build you can bring.  Not everyone can do it, but most can find a way to do it.  More importantly, no one wants to do it most of the time.

3 hours ago, (XB1)alf swarm said:

Every time some even slightly 'challenging' or time consuming content is added the community asks for the game to be made easier

 It isn't 'challenging', it is just time consuming.  People that did the elite challenges in the first week probably are over the top for hour long survivals, they also stopped doing hour long survivals a long time ago.  It isn't worth it.  The nightwave standing also isn't worth it.  Luckily you are right, we don't have to do it and we will likely get all the rewards and prestige and get extra credits, but we aren't going to get as much as well as the fact that if later weeks have duplicates of these missions, we will be cut out of rep more than just this time.

 Take a moment and look ahead and wonder what other objectives they might put up.  10 spy missions with friends.  All Lua vaults cleared during the week.  They aren't really tough, but they aren't related to challenge, they are more about getting people to do things they will not normally do.

 I am also not particularly happy about "complete 10 perfect animal captures" as I have gotten far too many times when the creature just does not spawn and it says I scared it off, and then other times where it doesn't react to anything, I fire the shot and hit it as soon as it's in range and it collapses and it gives poor capture anyway.  The perfect captures were barely working for me and I do not enjoy the idea of going out to grind out at least 10 captures when I am expecting 10 poor captures in a row.

Edited March 4, 2019 by JHarlequin

[Kriegerurteil]

there is really only one thing they need to do to make Nightwave perfect: bring back the old alerts and make nightwave a one time weekend challenge and after that be done with it.

This "clever" way of adding lore to alerts is neither clever nor better than the original system, never in my life have I thought to myself "hey you know what warframe really needs? Some sort of funky radio show, that would be dope", but I won't go into anymore detail about that because I am generally against the direction Warframe has been going these past years in terms of tone and atmosphere, it became less about Space Ninjas fighting a desperate battle to keep the solar system at balance and more about some sort of clown show, I'm looking at you Nef Anyo.

But to go back to valid criticims, they wanted this new system to let us choose when to do what to get what we want, but dailys and weeklys ARE NOT THAT AT ALL, especially if there are so few of them and you pretty much have to do all of them to get all the rewards you want (which is only that one umbra forma).

So they did not improve Alerts, they removed them and added something that does not what they wanted to improve upon in the first place. Also with the old alerts you at least had some natural incentive to join up with other players, now it is best to solo all the missions because it simply is faster and you are on a schedule except for those brilliant play with a friend missions.

[ADM-Ntek]

you know i saw the list and was like nope and quit. they said they created nightwave because people didn't like missing out on rewards. well the way it is know it isn't any better because if you don't finish enough challenges you are going to miss out.

[JHarlequin]

1 hour ago, ADM-Ntek said:

you know i saw the list and was like nope and quit. they said they created nightwave because people didn't like missing out on rewards. well the way it is know it isn't any better because if you don't finish enough challenges you are going to miss out.

 At the moment we don't know exactly how tight it will be at the end of the first season.  They seem to intend, from things they have said, for people to max out and restart to get additional wolf credits.  So there will be leeway and people will finish the normal rewards even if they skip out on some of the objectives.

 There is the chance that DE is setting some of these objectives based on things that people rarely do.  The more rare things they push though will keep pushing people towards disappointment in the feature.  We will probably make it through, but every skipped objective makes it that much easier to skip out on playing that week, or during that season.

Edited March 4, 2019 by JHarlequin

[ADM-Ntek]

1 hour ago, JHarlequin said:

 At the moment we don't know exactly how tight it will be at the end of the first season.  They seem to intend, from things they have said, for people to max out and restart to get additional wolf credits.  So there will be leeway and people will finish the normal rewards even if they skip out on some of the objectives.

 There is the chance that DE is setting some of these objectives based on things that people rarely do.  The more rare things they push though will keep pushing people towards disappointment in the feature.  We will probably make it through, but every skipped objective makes it that much easier to skip out on playing that week, or during that season.

to get to level 30 you will need 300.000 standing so basically 30.000 every week. this weeks challenges including 7 dailies should give 43.000 standing. if it stays that way the max should be around 430.000. not including what you can get from capturing fugitives. but at 50 standing a pop you would need a lot to make any real difference.

[(PSN)JustitiaCaelum]

4 hours ago, JHarlequin said:

Take a moment and look ahead and wonder what other objectives they might put up.  10 spy missions with friends.  All Lua vaults cleared during the week.  They aren't really tough, but they aren't related to challenge, they are more about getting people to do things they will not normally do.

I think this is also important to note. What if there are more "challenges" like this? Do 60 waves of defense with the target not taking damage sounds comparable to the kuva survival act because it is also a riven unlock mission we currently have. That is just even more boring than survival. Or what about a unveil 5 rivens weekly act? 9 games on lunaro with friends (they won't be your friends afterwards)? Obviously these are speculation, but we had somewhat similar weeklies last week so they are not outside of the realm of possibility.

"You can skip the ones you don't want" is not a valid argument either because it would mean a design failure on the devs part. And that is why I wish we can address this now, so that we won't be 7 weeks in and realize "wait I am still at 200 wolf cred, that is only good for 5 helmets and I could have gotten that many in a few weeks of alerts too". Because I like the direction of nightwave (as a veteran who have no use for alt helmets and nitain so I can get more catalysts). I actually think last week's acts are very well designed. Make us do some forgotten content like invasions and bounties. Even if I don't like the 'elite' label, the hydrolyst capture is something newer players can eventually work towards, whereas these 1 hr survival does nothing except to test our tolerance level. 

[(XBOX)alf swarm]

6 hours ago, JHarlequin said:

It isn't 'challenging', it is just time consuming. 

It is more challenging than anything currently in the game. You're right, it's not hard. But it's a step in the right direction from a game that refuses to create new content over level 40.

 

I don't really want to stay in a mission for 60 minutes but it's the only way the actual mechanics of the game get tested. The entire star chart and every quest can be completed with an excal and mk-1 weapons.

Edited March 4, 2019 by (XB1)alf swarm

[JackHargreav]

You are not FORCED. Sure one hour survival is a little bit extreme but no one is holding a gun at your head.

[JHarlequin]

24 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

You are not FORCED. Sure one hour survival is a little bit extreme but no one is holding a gun at your head.

 Do you want the highest tiers of rewards?  You aren't forced, but if objectives like these come up too often, then you are forced to do them or to give up on those rewards.

 While it is true that the best rewards should require some actual effort, as said, these things aren't really effort, they are just a big drain of time and a slightly odd criteria for completion.  Playing with others is a good thing, specifically having friends join doesn't seem to really have a point for nightwave, it seems to be more of pushing people to add more friends or to pull in their friends to play warframe.

[(PSN)czarnynighht]

First week ok.... eidolon was too hard for me but I don't have anything against harder missions as long their amount is small and reward appropriate so 1-2 harder for high lvl players seemed ok. But second week broke all. I don't like any mission that take more than 20-25 min straight, those 30 mins of last 3 weekends were tiring as I didn't know if I will need quit in middle. I can't turn myself off for 1h straight so I'm 10k credits behind, -3k for sortie (don't fancy that mode at all as I never got anything higher that lowest reward), -3k for perfect capture.

No problem so far. I only wanna get nitain. But. I need tons of nitain as I finally managed to open tons of relics and get enough parts from syndicates, I'm building prime, weapons and helmets. Before nightwave I had ps4 open by most of day and when I saw alerts with it or tellerium and I could I toke short brake from work/family as they those missions were 5-15min type. Now I USED all my nitain from before nightwave, used all credits I got on it and need like few dozens nitain more. THX DE, now forge won't take me 10-12days to finish stuff I wanna but 1-2months!!!!

game was good to quick plays and short forgetting about reality. Even with small time put to this hanger u didn't lost much. As u quickly lvl up and rest of time was waiting for forge to finish, so my objective was farming to start most of things and after rank immediately start production of all new equipment pieces. Now? I'm lack nitain to finish almost all prime I got. Eh. Hopefully next batch of missions will be better balanced. U don't need change missions each week! Only reset them! And please add to every rank in nightwave credits!!! U spend them faster than u can obtain new 50 (joke amount for 2-5h of play) I still have feeling that best thing would be keeping alerts online and just add nightwave. Thx to that most nightwave missions u would do doing some alerts not same defense mission over and over and over again to get enough elemental kills and type kills.

Now only farming place except market of nitain is nerfed. DE just give us option of getting nitain in reasonable amount outside of nightwave. Please.

[Morthal]

A one hour Survival mission is easy when I solo. The hard part, is finding a dedicated public group, because my friends list is full of offline people and my clan consists of my daughter and I. She isn't as interested in Warframe as she was last year so...yeah. I'm not enjoying these forced 'friend' missions one bit, especially since they're bugged. As for Animal captures, that's something I won't ever take part in, don't care how easy it is, just not my cup o' tea. I spent way too much time grinding fish/minerals since Plains of Eidolon to give another minute of my time on "Floof" fodder.

Man am I salty about these missions...I was really expecting better. Seems like the Arbitration hate was ignored around the office, since the boring factor was compounded in both Saturn Six and Arbitration missions. 
Here's some of my own creative poopsmithery for you DE lads/lassies: Reverse the roles of our Operators for once and have us attack a defensive position. Don't just cheese the objective with immunity though, instead give multiple ways to infiltrate and allow enemies to fortify their positions dynamically as well. 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Morthal
Spelling

[B3A5TMUPH1N]

I'm glad everyone is bagging on the 'with a friend or clan-mate" requirement.

Truth be told, I've played since the beginning, and I can honestly say DE has done NOTHING to make the game more co-operative. There are no combos between frames, or synergy between players.

Warframe is a solo/single player MMO farming game with the option to join other players to show off by measuring prime mods and forma slots.

There's literally NO BENEFIT to playing with anyone else, and for myself and many others, finding/coordinating with someone I know, when they are online, during my free time, is very tough.

When I do join groups, I now find myself praying that the players I group with aren't Sauren, Mesa, or just have an Atterax and spin to win (speaking of this...will you just add the dizzy debuff into all melee weapons so people will stop doing that? it's a 'meta' fun-killer...please debuff spin to win...three or four then dizzy...force people to become better doing combos than spinning around like crack heads the whole mission.)

On that note...solo game play is great! Nothing like running around with Sauren and my Attearax wiping out whole maps! (Hopefully you are seeing my point here...)

Also, I don't mind farming for an hour...i have 1800 in the game already, but DE has yet to improve long term investment rewards. It'd be nice to see the loot tables get better every 20 minutes. AABC -> BBCD -> CCDE -> DDEF (Ect,.)

So far I've really liked what nightwave is doing, and DE is BY FAR my favorite company, but I think it's time to recognize that cooperative play is not a strong point for Warframe. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by B3A5TMUPH1N
mispelling

[JackHargreav]

7 hours ago, JHarlequin said:

 Do you want the highest tiers of rewards?  You aren't forced, but if objectives like these come up too often, then you are forced to do them or to give up on those rewards.

 While it is true that the best rewards should require some actual effort, as said, these things aren't really effort, they are just a big drain of time and a slightly odd criteria for completion.  Playing with others is a good thing, specifically having friends join doesn't seem to really have a point for nightwave, it seems to be more of pushing people to add more friends or to pull in their friends to play warframe.

It's been said many times. You don't need all tasks to get all the rewards. 60mins is Bs of course but elites are bonus missions on top of the weeklies and dailies as it has been said by DeRebecca. 

[DrivaMain]

15 hours ago, (XB1)alf swarm said:

It is more challenging than anything currently in the game. You're right, it's not hard. But it's a step in the right direction from a game that refuses to create new content over level 40.

 

I don't really want to stay in a mission for 60 minutes but it's the only way the actual mechanics of the game get tested. The entire star chart and every quest can be completed with an excal and mk-1 weapons.

The Problem is that you have to complete the weekly in 1 mission. The Process of doing it is boring and tedious because you are just sitting there waiting for the timer to hit 60:00. Not to mention this is a huge slap in the face for players who are very busy in real life. DE should change it from 1 Mission to total playtime like “Spend 60 Minutes total in Survival missions”