Nightwave is invasive and sets a bad trend.

[DarkSignal]

Nightwave at its core is another syndicate; except it's not, really. It's a mutant hybrid that has rooted itself throughout the whole system in a bad way. I wish I could simply ignore it, but I can't so I must complain about it.

Unlike alerts, this syndicate is not its own corner of the game. You don't run special missions or bounties to gain standing with Nightwave; even Simaris required you to consult with him about synthesis targets first. Nightwave follows you everywhere, without restriction and without consent. Other syndicates could do that too, if you were wearing an appropriate sigil.

The reason Nightwave is so ubiquitous is because you gain standing by performing mundane tasks that could be done anywhere; and because syndicates are an investment, you have to slog through a whole checklist of mundane drivel to make any progress. Sure you could focus on other things simultaneously, but it's still one investment among many. With alerts gone, so is that balance. Everything is a grind now.

And unlike other syndicates, this is grind that's wasted because your standing with them resets every two months; all part of the series system that the sorties used to use, rotating the lore and rewards. The sorties dummied that out because eventually the well runs dry, just like it did with Synthesis lore. How long until we start playing through the same lore with the same rewards again? Without the lore, all you have is a never ending cycle that you constantly bend over for to get any benefit from; adding onto that, another form of exclusive currency you have to build up like that wealth flaunting elitist Baro Ki Teer.

And you know what? I can't do it. I can't listen to that shameless ripoff of the DJ from "The Warriors" poison the airwaves with hollow praise from her repulsive mouth flaps. Why? Because I melted a sliver of Grineer?

I miss alerts. They were their own simple section of the game. Sure they were random, but at least they kept you listening. Even if you didn't need anything from them, they were great alternatives for better credit payouts. The whole Nitain issue could've easily been resolved by just not making it an alert exclusive item in the first place.

But instead, we have this.

We have Nightwave.

Edited March 9, 2019 by DarkSignal

[CreamedSoda]

So basically it comes down to the fact that the standing system is trash. We already learned this from Fortuna and PoE 

[GnarlsDarkley]

I'm not convinced either from Nightwave.

I don't think it's bad. Quite the opposite. It's somewhat fun and I want to play again after Fortuna and Fortuna 2.0 let me down pretty fast. But there are too many flaws to enjoy them. For example I am forced to add strangers as friends to complete missions I'd rather play solo. Or upcoming pvp tasks. DE forces bs on us again. 

Sure...I can just not do it...but what's the gain? Zero. I will miss out Wolf Creds in the end or the Umbra Forma if these missions will become more and more.

Another problem with Nightwave is why DE stopped with Login Bonuses after Day 1000 and "only" give evergreens.

Let's say my clanmates who are on hiatus come back in 5 weeks. Instead of keep playing and enjoying Nightwave I bet my manlyhood they quit immediately because they cannot get very high into Series 1 (and thus miss the Umbral Forma for sure).

This may/will happen to any "veteran" who will login back late into Series.

[bad4youLT]

42 minutes ago, Whitestrake0 said:

So basically it comes down to the fact that the standing system is trash. We already learned this from Fortuna and PoE 

The system is here to time gate players so we dont got entire content in one day , how would you suggest to time gate content otherwise ?

Edited March 9, 2019 by bad4youLT

[CreamedSoda]

1 minute ago, bad4youLT said:

The system is here to time gate players so we dont got entire content in one day , how would you suggest to time gate content otherwise ?

One rank possible per day, for people who really really want to get through and get to the actual meat instead of sifting through trash for 2 weeks doing the same crap over and over again then they can do it over the course of 5 days.

[GnarlsDarkley]

4 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

the system is here to time gate players

No, it isn't. Time gate would mean you delay content on purpose. Alerts were fast and easy missions like "Oh a new alternate helmet. I run this mission in 5 minutes and am happy".

Nightwave is more like: "You have to complete x tasks to get an item which is rewarded (randomly?) in rotations" And if you are too late? Well, hope it returns before the next Series or you have to start at 0 again

Edited March 9, 2019 by GnarlsDarkley

[DarkSignal]

1 hour ago, Whitestrake0 said:

So basically it comes down to the fact that the standing system is trash. We already learned this from Fortuna and PoE 

It's not simply the standing system though, it's how its replacing systems that didn't need to be replaced, and is now unavoidable as a result.

[NezuHimeSama]

1 hour ago, bad4youLT said:

The system is here to time gate players so we dont got entire content in one day , how would you suggest to time gate content otherwise ?

Howabout not doing that? Why does WF have to copy every other online game, and turn it's self into a 9-5 job? Why can't it just allow players to play the content they want to play when they want to play it and how much they want to play it rather than telling them what to play, when to play it, and how much they're allowed to play?

Seriously, how the actual #*!% did anyone think being told what to do at every stage of the game would be fun? It's why PSO2 has so many problems staying afloat after the novelty of whatever new power creep they push out wears off. Nobody likes being told how to live. It's #*!%ing annoying. Stop it.

[AureliusVarro]

While the alert systems had it's problems like "went out for an hour - farewell to stuff" and same old 24/7 waiting for something of interest, I can't disagree that nightwave is also too much of a grindfest. As the whole Warframe always was. As any looter-shooter. On one hand, nightwave gives challenges, a reason to go 1h survival, for example. And at least some reward for doing that. And there are legit ways to farm standing aside from those "kill 5 rats"-challenges, namely - farming fugitives, that can compensate some standing losses. On the other, some challenges can become really frustrating. Like those with obligatory social/pvp activities. What would happen if they do a conclave challenge...
 Maybe the solution would have something to do with syndicate-like missions and giving some wolf-creds with each rank, and an ability to hush Nora. As for lore, they can do some filler stuff every two months, it's a reasonable term. I think DE will be able to keep this somewhat interesting.

[bad4youLT]

12 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

Howabout not doing that? Why does WF have to copy every other online game, and turn it's self into a 9-5 job? Why can't it just allow players to play the content they want to play when they want to play it and how much they want to play it rather than telling them what to play, when to play it, and how much they're allowed to play?

Seriously, how the actual #*!% did anyone think being told what to do at every stage of the game would be fun? It's why PSO2 has so many problems staying afloat after the novelty of whatever new power creep they push out wears off. Nobody likes being told how to live. It's #*!%ing annoying. Stop it.

To quote DE Rebeca "because we are a f2p game what survives on players loging in daily" or something like this she said on twiter.

The point of time gating players is to make whem come back and not to let whem blast through entire content in one day , the content that tooked weeks to make and diliver and if what happens what els players have to do later ?

Edited March 10, 2019 by bad4youLT

[Enialyx]

1 hour ago, bad4youLT said:

To quote DE Rebeca "because we are a f2p game what survives on players loging in daily" or something like this she said on twiter.

It's a game design problem.

A fundamental truth in game design is that players should enjoy your game. Trying to pressure them to play is not a good direction at all.

[bad4youLT]

14 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

It's a game design problem.

A fundamental truth in game design is that players should enjoy your game. Trying to pressure them to play is not a good direction at all.

Heres a thing you prob dont see , time gating is here to prevent content drought , how els can you prevent content drought other when slow burn ? no dev can produce content at the speed people are consuming it .

[Enialyx]

2 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

Heres a thing you prob dont see , time gating is here to prevent content drought

But it doesn't. All it does is pressure people to play through old content for ~10 weeks straight.

It's not content. It's a recipe for burnout.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Enialyx

[bad4youLT]

4 minutes ago, Enialyx said:

But it doesn't. All it does is pressure people to play through old content for ~10 weeks straight.

It's not content. It's a recipe for burnout.

nope , its other way around , if we could get as much nightwave stading as we want with no limits when 

 - all rewards will be earned in one day

 - people who earned all rewards in day would be burn out because how much grind and work they did

 - after all rewards are aquired were is no icentive to continue playing , enter the content drought

[TheSkunkyMonk]

No more Alerts and Nightwave resets meaning I loose all my progress if im not fast enough, No thank you DE this Tenno is outa here. Might pop my head in over the next few days but unless I hear we will be getting to progress through Nightwave at our own pace and NE and the mods will be coming back to Alerts don't expect my wallet to open to you ever again, or that I even bother logging into the game. Been a struggle just playing the past few days and that was only because of the event I even bothered.

Thank you for trashing your game, kinda sad your so blind you couldn't see this should of just been an addition and not time limited either.

No chance I am putting in that much time and effort to complete Nightwave when its already so uncertain.

See you all later, time for something new instead of this rerolled crap we are getting fed hear.

[bad4youLT]

43 minutes ago, TheSkunkyMonk said:

No more Alerts and Nightwave resets meaning I loose all my progress if im not fast enough, No thank you DE this Tenno is outa here. Might pop my head in over the next few days but unless I hear we will be getting to progress through Nightwave at our own pace and NE and the mods will be coming back to Alerts don't expect my wallet to open to you ever again, or that I even bother logging into the game. Been a struggle just playing the past few days and that was only because of the event I even bothered.

Thank you for trashing your game, kinda sad your so blind you couldn't see this should of just been an addition and not time limited either.

No chance I am putting in that much time and effort to complete Nightwave when its already so uncertain.

See you all later, time for something new instead of this rerolled crap we are getting fed hear.

You know WoSs is 11 weeks long , doing every act will let you reach max rank 30 in 7-8th week , you can skip out 13K rep per week and still reach rank 30 , the only thing youl miss out is on wolf credts .

As someone who has a job and can really play on weekedns I have to disagree with all nay sayers , this system is better , no rng I get to chose rewards .

What nitain ? like you even need what much of it

potatoes ? GoL , invasions and events is were most of potatoes come from for me

Helmets ? as if your going to play every frame what is out and fashion is end game not for new players

Umbra forma ? its for die hard vets like me

Cosmetics ? same as helmets , for end game players

 

Like any of you ever noticed the end rewards are focused for veterans while rewards up to rank 8 wich aint hard to get contains what new players trully need , slots and 100 wold credits enough to buy 5 nitains wich new player is more when enough and a potatoe but you can get potatoes early from quests and one does not waist potatoe on mastery fodder items .

 

I dont want to sound like Im attacking anyone here but so far none has provided any good reasoning over system other when alerts gaved you more items but leme ask you this , do you really needed like 5th of what helmet / mod , credit rewards were laughable as DSD on ceres gives 20K + droped cretids

Edited March 10, 2019 by bad4youLT

[TheSkunkyMonk]

10 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

You know WoSs is 11 weeks long , doing every act will let you reach max rank 30 in 7-8th week , you can skip out 13K rep per week and still reach rank 30 , the only thing youl miss out is on wolf credts .

As someone who has a job and can really play on weekedns I have to disagree with all nay sayers , this system is better , no rng I get to chose rewards .

What nitain ? like you even need what much of it

potatoes ? GoL , invasions and events is were most of potatoes come from for me

Helmets ? as if your going to play every frame what is out and fashion is end game not for new players

Umbra forma ? its for die hard vets like me

Cosmetics ? same as helmets , for end game players

 

Like any of you ever noticed the end rewards are focused for veterans while rewards up to rank 8 wich aint hard to get contains what new players trully need , slots and 100 wold credits enough to buy 5 nitains wich new player is more when enough and a potatoe but you can get potatoes early from quests and one does not waist potatoe on mastery fodder items .

 

I dont want to sound like Im attacking anyone here but so far none has provided any good reasoning over system other when alerts gaved you more items but leme ask you this , do you really needed like 5th of what helmet / mod , credit rewards were laughable as DSD on ceres gives 20K + droped cretids

I want to go at my own pace I Want to finish when I want to finish, so even being able to miss 13k just doesn't tickle my fancy.

Erm yes you need atleast 180 nitain and that is if you don't need to rebuild anything.

Potatoes where Gifts from the lotus which we still get.

Helmets not fussed about em, was nice to see them on alerts though.

Umbra, yeah that is probably the only reason for doing Nightwave and we should all be able to get that one at our own pace, whats the harm in only resetting nightwave when we get to the end of the wave/season?

I used to get 3/4 nitain each day btw and in under 5minutes a pop, now my MR grind is locked behind Nightwave.

I preferred alerts got o much more from it, yeah vets don't need anything on them anymore but new and mid range players certainly do!

Anyways think im well and truly done, just not been any fun recently without alerts to break the day up, off to sail the SoT instead I think.

Enjoy the money you got from me DE, Id hoped it would fund more quests not a bigger grind.

[bad4youLT]

38 minutes ago, TheSkunkyMonk said:

I want to go at my own pace I Want to finish when I want to finish, so even being able to miss 13k just doesn't tickle my fancy.

Erm yes you need atleast 180 nitain and that is if you don't need to rebuild anything.

Potatoes where Gifts from the lotus which we still get.

Helmets not fussed about em, was nice to see them on alerts though.

Umbra, yeah that is probably the only reason for doing Nightwave and we should all be able to get that one at our own pace, whats the harm in only resetting nightwave when we get to the end of the wave/season?

I used to get 3/4 nitain each day btw and in under 5minutes a pop, now my MR grind is locked behind Nightwave.

I preferred alerts got o much more from it, yeah vets don't need anything on them anymore but new and mid range players certainly do!

Anyways think im well and truly done, just not been any fun recently without alerts to break the day up, off to sail the SoT instead I think.

Enjoy the money you got from me DE, Id hoped it would fund more quests not a bigger grind.

128* nitain not counting cosmetics and research 

All points you made are fair , and I agree wolf credit rewards should be increase , that or increase nitain drop chance from other places , also I have alt account who is mr4 with 16 hous in and I already got to jupiter , I havent yet reach the part were "oh yeah I need nitain" but Im not going to argue to someone whos MR is important what much.

 

Eddit : forgot to add in one thing , Il have to disagree with one thing you sayd and what is

"want to go at my own pace I Want to finish when I want to finish, so even being able to miss 13k just doesn't tickle my fancy"

You can do this , other when daily acts what last only 3 days the rest you have an entire week to complite and by my book whats ample of time

Edited March 10, 2019 by bad4youLT

[TheSkunkyMonk]

9 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

128* nitain not counting cosmetics and research 

All points you made are fair , and I agree wolf credit rewards should be increase , that or increase nitain drop chance from other places , also I have alt account who is mr4 with 16 hous in and I already got to jupiter , I havent yet reach the part were "oh yeah I need nitain" but Im not going to argue to someone whos MR is important what much.

 

Eddit : forgot to add in one thing , Il have to disagree with one thing you sayd and what is

"want to go at my own pace I Want to finish when I want to finish, so even being able to miss 13k just doesn't tickle my fancy"

You can do this , other when daily acts what last only 3 days the rest you have an entire week to complite and by my book whats ample of time

I can't go at my own pace though, imagine I want a 3/4 week hiatus, thats its, that is me out of the running for the end tier rewards, Nightwave to me anyway should of been a case I get to take as long as I want to reach tier30 just like all the other syndicates, and only once I reach that level does it move onto whatever is going to come next in this series and put me back to the beginning... I know alot dont mind this but for me its a complete deal breaker, and imagine this for new players or players who return half way through, what are they going to have todo in game now? I know my friends wont even consider coming back until this one is over if they even bother at all, and personally I hate the pressure of having this reset and loosing everything if I don't go fast enough. Yeah yeah 60% is all I need but hey they can keep it.

Unless they are going to remove the time constraints and bring us some alerts the £100+ they've had off me in the past couple of month is certainly going to be the last as I'm not even motivated to get my login reward anymore at the moment never mind set aside ten weeks to complete rehashed content again and again...

Only people Nightwave is good for is end game players and vets who already have everything.

Glad your still enjoying it though but for me its ruined, and I've still not heard a single good reason for them not running alerts alongside Nightwave other than to increase DE's profits.

Enjoy.x

[NezuHimeSama]

8 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

To quote DE Rebeca "because we are a f2p game what survives on players loging in daily" or something like this she said on twiter.

The point of time gating players is to make whem come back and not to let whem blast through entire content in one day , the content that tooked weeks to make and diliver and if what happens what els players have to do later ? 

And when you gate them right out of the game, then they don't log in ever, forget daily.

Warframe is a game, not a job. If I can't play it how I want, when I want, I won't #*!%ing play it. I don't owe it to the game to log in, and I certainly won't play just because they told me to.

 

DE needs the customer. The customer does not need Warframe. If you're worried about content drought, then put out the content bit by bit and let it pile up, rather than trying to force people to treat the game like a job. #*!%ing SIMPLE

[TheSixOfDiamonds]

On 2019-03-09 at 2:16 PM, DarkSignal said:

Nightwave at its core is another syndicate; except it's not, really. It's a mutant hybrid that has rooted itself throughout the whole system in a bad way. I wish I could simply ignore it, but I can't so I must complain about it.

Unlike alerts, this syndicate is not its own corner of the game. You don't run special missions or bounties to gain standing with Nightwave; even Simaris required you to consult with him about synthesis targets first. Nightwave follows you everywhere, without restriction and without consent. Other syndicates could do that too, if you were wearing an appropriate sigil.

While I still don't know about if I prefer Nightwave to Alerts, the fact you can't opt out of it and still play the game is annoying. Specifically, one of my favourite things to do is functionally axed: Taking a bunch of new gear (or gear I'm getting through forma) and level it more or less at the same time. Now, I will concede that this is because I play 90% Solo, that being said, DE has repeatedly said they don't want to alienate the "clans of one"

Well, seeing as now I have to reserve a slot in my loadout for a high radiation damage weapon, in the off chance the Wolf shows up, I am functionally unable to do the exact thing I want to do. He a field boss I can't dispatch and have done with, nor avoid while running the exact missions I want to chill in. He's shown up twice for me, only had to fight him once (second time was during the extraction sequence) but that doesn't change the fact we will have a tanky, proc-immune field boss that can just show up in most missions in the game. I don't want to think how awful it is for someone that's just trying to get from junction to junction solo, or someone who is trying to get a core loadout forma'd (like real early game, remember, you can't opt out of Nightwave like you could Alerts).

[AureliusVarro]

Le 10/03/2019 à 23:11, TheSixOfDiamonds a dit :

While I still don't know about if I prefer Nightwave to Alerts, the fact you can't opt out of it and still play the game is annoying. Specifically, one of my favourite things to do is functionally axed: Taking a bunch of new gear (or gear I'm getting through forma) and level it more or less at the same time. Now, I will concede that this is because I play 90% Solo, that being said, DE has repeatedly said they don't want to alienate the "clans of one"

Well, seeing as now I have to reserve a slot in my loadout for a high radiation damage weapon, in the off chance the Wolf shows up, I am functionally unable to do the exact thing I want to do. He a field boss I can't dispatch and have done with, nor avoid while running the exact missions I want to chill in. He's shown up twice for me, only had to fight him once (second time was during the extraction sequence) but that doesn't change the fact we will have a tanky, proc-immune field boss that can just show up in most missions in the game. I don't want to think how awful it is for someone that's just trying to get from junction to junction solo, or someone who is trying to get a core loadout forma'd (like real early game, remember, you can't opt out of Nightwave like you could Alerts).

It's not much different from a Stalker

[TheSixOfDiamonds]

8 hours ago, AureliusVarro said:

It's not much different from a Stalker

There's three critical differences there: You can avoid Stalker marks, and Stalker has a beacon you can deploy to help burn through them. The Wolf has neither, and you cannot burn through them. On top of those, while Stalker is immune to procs, he goes down pretty quick (even Shadow melts with decent Amps and a solid primary).

So Stalker can be burned down and he stays away (until you kill a boss, and the only reasons to kill a boss is for a frame or open a junction), The Wolf doesn't , and will return again. Complete with his rather beefy HP pool he remains, as the title states, invasive. While I don't doubt The Wolf is fully vulnerable to and high damage Radiation weapon, the facts remain that I can't return to leveling up new weapons after he kills me or vice versa, he will return at some point and I must reserve a weapon slot just on the off chance RNG decides he shows back up.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

I really don't see the problem some som of you have with Nightwave, for me, it was just the thing I needed to actually keep playing the game. I didn't like alerts, some of them had rare items or resources like the nitain, which you needed to be on at a certain time of day to get. Not all of us play just this game, and it made it hard to acquire nitain. I like Nightwave because yes, it is a standing grind, but the amount of standing needed to increase it never increases, one can lvl up their rank often by just playing the game, and I think I speak for most when I say you get way better stuff here than from Alerts. When tough challenges come up, like the 1 hr Kuva survival last week, me and my brother as well as his gf like to team up and scratch that off the list. Its fun, it can encourage people to play surival for longer periods of time, some of us enjoyed that. I enjoyed the wol creds too, although I do think people deserve a bit more for the work they put it, but it also allows us to get what we need at a moments notice IE the Nitain or other cosmetics. The game isnt ruined as one of you so delicately puts it, I think it is getting better. That is my stance on it at least, if you think the game is ruined, thats on you.

Edited March 12, 2019 by (PS4)ErydisTheLucario

[Shalath]

On 2019-03-10 at 7:57 PM, NezuHimeSama said:

And when you gate them right out of the game, then they don't log in ever, forget daily.

Warframe is a game, not a job. If I can't play it how I want, when I want, I won't #*!%ing play it. I don't owe it to the game to log in, and I certainly won't play just because they told me to.

 

DE needs the customer. The customer does not need Warframe. If you're worried about content drought, then put out the content bit by bit and let it pile up, rather than trying to force people to treat the game like a job. #*!%ing SIMPLE

Every MMO has daily caps and ways of slowing you down as do most other online games. WF is no different. You don't have to do every NW challenge, in fact you can completely ignore the system for the next 6 months if you want and then do a few to get your nitain or whatever. It is entirely optional unless you want the rewards, in which case you play the game to get them. I really don't get why so many are complaining that they actually have to play the game to get rewards. Sure they aren't instant anymore but in the long run the rewards are better and higher in number so you get rewarded for actually playing the game (which DE obviously want you to do) rather than logging in, not seeing the alert you want and immediately logging out.

Your comment about content drought is a perfect example of an armchair dev stating how simple they think the problem is whilst not having any actual experience in the industry to draw from. You can't just "puy out the content bit by bit and let it pile up" as that is exactly the opposite of what will happen. You put out a bit of content and players immediately consume it and then complain they have nothing to do. It doesn't pile up unless you slow the players down to the point where you are pumping out content quicker than players can complete it. Consuming content is infinitely quicker than producing it and Nightwave is an attempt to distract you with challenges and give you something to do until the next content update is ready.