Riding the Power Creep uphill

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

With the new methods to introduce damage and resistance into the game we went from classic Boltor to Boltor Prime towards Destreza to Destreza Prime. Although we had a round of buffs for weapons in 2018 for Primaries, Secondaries, and Beam weapons the trend of adding I P S changes to weapons to P and S can use more revisiting. With a slight buff, stat chance increases, multiplyer increase, and speed reduction it serves both ends of criticism than the target audience. Going from Fragor to Fragor Prime is like going from green bananas to ripe bananas, while Opticor to Opticor vandal is hit and miss in direction. While we are getting more weapons down the road we have to use more of the original model to upgraded variants. By keeping to the straightforward path the next 100+ Weapons to be added with content with imagination in mind. For example we have the classic Tysis that will be reworked then the Zakti is there as a alternative, and while we have the pox as secondary variants of status heavy weapons. If we can get back on track, then there won’t be several side projects to rework the I P S, percentage chances, and reduced attack speed w fire rate to weapons.

[peterc3]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Going from Fragor to Fragor Prime is like going from green bananas to ripe bananas, while Opticor to Opticor vandal is hit and miss in direction.

These aren't equivalent.

Can you, for once, simplify and organize this?

[(XBOX)AlingsasArrende]

Your post is very hard to understand, and I am not saying that to be mean. (Yes, I'm a teacher.) I read it three times and cannot say that I understand what you wish to say. Try adding punctuation and clarifying your sentences. It would also help to state your main point clearly at the beginning. Good luck!

[Pro3Display]

i agree with previous replies, OP please organize your post - it's a mess that i can barely understand

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)AlingsasArrende said:

Your post is very hard to understand, and I am not saying that to be mean. (Yes, I'm a teacher.) I read it three times and cannot say that I understand what you wish to say. Try adding punctuation and clarifying your sentences. It would also help to state your main point clearly at the beginning. Good luck!

We have to get back to Fragor to Fragor Prime buffing in the game; so Primes and special weapons aren’t ‘rework’ models of weapons.  If we stick to this current trend of new weapons, then melee 3.0, Rail Jack, The New War, and MR 30 will keep getting pushed back by people who hate Warframe and want it nerfed into the ground like Destiny, Overwatch, and films owned by Disney. 

[(XBOX)AlingsasArrende]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

so Primes and special weapons aren’t ‘rework’ models of weapons.

If I understand you correctly, you want new version to be more powerful, and not sidegrades (for example having more status chance but less crit).

 

5 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

If we stick to this current trend of new weapons

I don't think that is the current trend. Primes certainly are buffed versions of the originals. Vandals and Wraiths are sometimes sidegrades and sometimes simply more powerful.

 

6 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

will keep getting pushed back by people who hate Warframe

It is not clear why this would be the case, or how it relates to the previous argument.

I am sorry, but you need to work on your text to make it intelligible.

[Deadoon]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

We have to get back to Fragor to Fragor Prime buffing in the game; so Primes and special weapons aren’t ‘rework’ models of weapons.  If we stick to this current trend of new weapons, then melee 3.0, Rail Jack, The New War, and MR 30 will keep getting pushed back by people who hate Warframe and want it nerfed into the ground like Destiny, Overwatch, and films owned by Disney. 

Weapons are binned into tiers based on mastery rank now. The top tier weapons are mr 14.  The opticor and opticor vandal are the same tier of weapon, MR14. Using your logic combined with the tier system, you either need to make more tiers or you end up with side grades at the top tier weapons.

This is ignoring the trade off of the vandal isn't even that big of a deal. It turns a single shot alpha strike weapon into a flexible use powerhouse.

You trade 60% base damage and 50% aoe damage for 70% less charge time(3.33* faster fire rate), improved Critical chance, Critical multiplier, status chance, reload speed and magazine size. In the end you are dealing on average about half damage per shot(crit accounted for), but over 3 times the fire rate. Much lower commitment to each shot, still does extremely respectable damage,

Then you have the stealth buff at some point to rifle ammo pickups(60 ammo boxes) which makes both nigh impossible to run out of ammo.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Deadoon

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

12 hours ago, peterc3 said:

These aren't equivalent.

Can you, for once, simplify and organize this?

Staying to the original idea of the game is more successful than reworking all the weapons in the game to have side grades to please the haters.

[Deadoon]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Staying to the original idea of the game is more successful than reworking all the weapons in the game to have side grades to please the haters.

The original idea of the game was placing weapons at random MR tiers and running with it. The community was what found the best weapons, some were even MR 2(boltor prime) or 0(lex prime was here).

You are the only one here which is making no sense. People wanting alternative interpretations or liking them doesn't make them haters. Especially if you say it in comparison to the "old system".

Heck, the telos boltor was originally a sidegrade boltor prime with 30 more rounds in the magazine at the cost of some fire rate and 5 damage.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Deadoon
specifics

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-04-10 at 3:14 AM, Deadoon said:

The original idea of the game was placing weapons at random MR tiers and running with it. The community was what found the best weapons, some were even MR 2(boltor prime) or 0(lex prime was here).

You are the only one here which is making no sense. People wanting alternative interpretations or liking them doesn't make them haters. Especially if you say it in comparison to the "old system".

Heck, the telos boltor was originally a sidegrade boltor prime with 30 more rounds in the magazine at the cost of some fire rate and 5 damage.

While some content like weapons are being reworked such as the Ogris and Melee 3.0 comes out people are going to come and complain about the reworks to say things need nerfs. Instead more getting done we have content droughts from the devs feeling pressured by elitists who want everything balanced in their eyes. How are we supposed to get Rail jack and the New War if the devs have to go back to nerf and rework melee 3.0, and their reworked content along with ending Itzal? The recent M R changes help; but there are new weapons and characters that can fit into the higher MR; so players have to try the other content instead of saying one item is too good. The weapons as it is needs a solid road map because reworking Lex Prime to be a side grade and the Vasto Prime is a large over step. Before accounting the AK- variant if people demanded Lex Prime to be impact, Magnus to be slash, and Vasto Prime to puncture and nerfed, then we would be delaying about 2 to 3 weeks of the content road map for some elitists who want to mess the game up.

[Deadoon]

1 hour ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

While some content like weapons are being reworked such as the Ogris and Melee 3.0 comes out people are going to come and complain about the reworks to say things need nerfs. Instead more getting done we have content droughts from the devs feeling pressured by elitists who want everything balanced in their eyes. How are we supposed to get Rail jack and the New War if the devs have to go back to nerf and rework melee 3.0, and their reworked content along with ending Itzal? The recent M R changes help; but there are new weapons and characters that can fit into the higher MR; so players have to try the other content instead of saying one item is too good. The weapons as it is needs a solid road map because reworking Lex Prime to be a side grade and the Vasto Prime is a large over step. Before accounting the AK- variant if people demanded Lex Prime to be impact, Magnus to be slash, and Vasto Prime to puncture and nerfed, then we would be delaying about 2 to 3 weeks of the content road map for some elitists who want to mess the game up.

And that has anything to do with what I said?

Ogris got reverted, nobody was really asking for the changes to it either, it was pretty random of a change. Nearly nobody is wanting the itzal nerfed, the devs are choosing to change it due to it's overuse, not any external factor. Most want the other AWs to be buffed because, as they are, their abilities aren't really useful on the open worlds so they are mainly just transportation. Melee 3.0 will be a rough launch, they are probably anticipating more than a few bumps on the road, nothing is perfect on release, there will be oversights, broken mechanics, maybe more than a few network issues again, and that is understandable big changes affect much more than just their little section. MR changes still have a certain degree of ambiguity, some weapons still outperform their mr for one reason or another like the corinth, MR 8 and a high tier shotgun, while the Boltor prime sits between the supra and vandal, but has a lower fire rate and has to reload constantly compared to them.

I have a feeling you don't understand what an "elitist" is. Elitists are those that try to make the most powerful builds, tout their skills constantly, and act like anyone who can't keep up with them is incompetent. Wanting a balanced game or wanting items to have unique character to them is not elitism. The goal of those who request or push for certain changes is not wanting to mess up the game, it is to make it better. Universal vacuum was a change brought by massive community effort, the carrier even got a new overpowered ability, ammo case, and I rarely see people complain about it due to how much more convenient it is. You might get low effort off hand complaints like it takes up a mod slot, but even those people are still giving up that slot for such a powerful utility.

Whenever I am active in this game, I post on the forums. There are weapons that are seriously out of place in power and those that seem as anchors of sorts. The tiberon prime overshadows the supra vandal, it's neighbor, and most other critical and status rifle weapons. It needs a few changes to be balanced but then again rifles in general need a buff. The recent 60 ammo pickups change is a great direction to take, something I was not expecting. Rather than tackle the power per ammo issue individually, improve the supply side to compensate for the high usage.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Deadoon
completing incomplete section

[Gawizard]

OP, before posting large bodies of text, read it. It helps since other people kinda need to understand your message.
Anyways, from what youre saying, you're implying that newer weapons should not be sidegrades but full upgrades to their dated counterpart. I can sorta agree but Side grades are perfect for variety, something thats lacking in the meta at the moment.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

4 hours ago, Gawizard said:

OP, before posting large bodies of text, read it. It helps since other people kinda need to understand your message.
Anyways, from what youre saying, you're implying that newer weapons should not be sidegrades but full upgrades to their dated counterpart. I can sorta agree but Side grades are perfect for variety, something thats lacking in the meta at the moment.

2+ hours in the void and the Raids were the meta testing grounds. Changes have thrown the Meta testing grounds for loops since teralyst hunting.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-04-14 at 10:58 PM, Deadoon said:

And that has anything to do with what I said?

Ogris got reverted, nobody was really asking for the changes to it either, it was pretty random of a change. Nearly nobody is wanting the itzal nerfed, the devs are choosing to change it due to it's overuse, not any external factor. Most want the other AWs to be buffed because, as they are, their abilities aren't really useful on the open worlds so they are mainly just transportation. Melee 3.0 will be a rough launch, they are probably anticipating more than a few bumps on the road, nothing is perfect on release, there will be oversights, broken mechanics, maybe more than a few network issues again, and that is understandable big changes affect much more than just their little section. MR changes still have a certain degree of ambiguity, some weapons still outperform their mr for one reason or another like the corinth, MR 8 and a high tier shotgun, while the Boltor prime sits between the supra and vandal, but has a lower fire rate and has to reload constantly compared to them.

I have a feeling you don't understand what an "elitist" is. Elitists are those that try to make the most powerful builds, tout their skills constantly, and act like anyone who can't keep up with them is incompetent. Wanting a balanced game or wanting items to have unique character to them is not elitism. The goal of those who request or push for certain changes is not wanting to mess up the game, it is to make it better. Universal vacuum was a change brought by massive community effort, the carrier even got a new overpowered ability, ammo case, and I rarely see people complain about it due to how much more convenient it is. You might get low effort off hand complaints like it takes up a mod slot, but even those people are still giving up that slot for such a powerful utility.

Whenever I am active in this game, I post on the forums. There are weapons that are seriously out of place in power and those that seem as anchors of sorts. The tiberon prime overshadows the supra vandal, it's neighbor, and most other critical and status rifle weapons. It needs a few changes to be balanced but then again rifles in general need a buff. The recent 60 ammo pickups change is a great direction to take, something I was not expecting. Rather than tackle the power per ammo issue individually, improve the supply side to compensate for the high usage.

Reverting Tonkor to it’s previous non self damage state would not be a bad option or to patch in the mod Caution Shot instead of it being a bandaid. As a community if we asked for more late game content like the old raids and a reason to do endless mission types or events like pacifism defect, then we can have a clear reason to score weapons better in the MR system and get better weapons to shoot for.

 

On the context of elitists, we are talking about the people who are the least of them, those that mimic people who GIT GOOD and turn around with a pious attitude to state “I feel that ‘x’ item is too good and needs to be toned down a lot to be balanced.” In other words a defective person who has the title; but can’t do it. Similar to the movie ‘Gladiator’ these “elitists” who want the attention; but don’t want to put in the effort, so they try to compete with the other person by tearing them down. Just like the famous general in the film some of our quality partners showed us how to GIT GOOD on Warframe.

 

Over the time many Warframe and weapons were in a good niche and it was good. People didn’t have a problem with the Rhino player in 4 hour survival just beefing it up or the Ash player chopping it up. Nor the ember keeping it hot, Trinity keeping alive, Mirage keeping the rooms bright, or even the Vauban keeping things afloat. Just like these frame there has been weapons like the Tonkor, the Simulor, Tonfas and more were in good position. While we did get the Lenz and Napalm Grenades mod with reworks to the Tonkor and Simulor to the current time it does help to get mechanics like the Pyrana Prime’s spree buff.

[Basalto]

I'll just casually point out that Warframe wants to have those fancy RPG-like stats of damage and damage types, as well as a "clear" distinction between weapons, like Braton and Braton Prime, but doesn't actually label weapons into power tiers, which defeats the purpose of them having such "complex" stats in the first place. If Warframe had a clear weapon progression and a group of weapons that was specifically stated to be the current best, things would be a lot easier to balance and we wouldn't have the classic "you can make any weapon good", which, while not exactly false, implies that a MK-1 Braton could reach Tiberon Prime's level of power with enough formas; we all know that's bullS#&$. So in short, Warframe needs to dive deeper into its pseudo-RPG mechanics and use them as they were meant to be used. After that, label weapons for a power group and add a proper in-game DPS calculator that tells players up to what level their weapon's stats will be "good enough", and by that I mean taking the average TTK on a level 1 enemy with an unmodded starter weapon and applying that TTK as a base for the calculator to give you a "yay" or a "nay" for things like headshot kills and bodyshot kills.

What's truly terrifying is when people are adamant on making everything be "usable" instead of having a group of items that help the player progress and another that help the player stay strong, something akin to a level 50 equipment in a game with 100 as the max level; you're not going to point at the level 50 equipment and say "make it usable on level 100 because people want to play it".

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

1 hour ago, Basalto said:

I'll just casually point out that Warframe wants to have those fancy RPG-like stats of damage and damage types, as well as a "clear" distinction between weapons, like Braton and Braton Prime, but doesn't actually label weapons into power tiers, which defeats the purpose of them having such "complex" stats in the first place. If Warframe had a clear weapon progression and a group of weapons that was specifically stated to be the current best, things would be a lot easier to balance and we wouldn't have the classic "you can make any weapon good", which, while not exactly false, implies that a MK-1 Braton could reach Tiberon Prime's level of power with enough formas; we all know that's bullS#&$. So in short, Warframe needs to dive deeper into its pseudo-RPG mechanics and use them as they were meant to be used. After that, label weapons for a power group and add a proper in-game DPS calculator that tells players up to what level their weapon's stats will be "good enough", and by that I mean taking the average TTK on a level 1 enemy with an unmodded starter weapon and applying that TTK as a base for the calculator to give you a "yay" or a "nay" for things like headshot kills and bodyshot kills.

What's truly terrifying is when people are adamant on making everything be "usable" instead of having a group of items that help the player progress and another that help the player stay strong, something akin to a level 50 equipment in a game with 100 as the max level; you're not going to point at the level 50 equipment and say "make it usable on level 100 because people want to play it".

The same can be said about the Eather weapons too. Those entitled people just want to force everyone to use a either dagger or go on here to demand everything else to get nerfed into the ground.

[Benour]

What? 

[Deadoon]

On 2019-04-15 at 6:45 AM, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Reverting Tonkor to it’s previous non self damage state would not be a bad option or to patch in the mod Caution Shot instead of it being a bandaid. As a community if we asked for more late game content like the old raids and a reason to do endless mission types or events like pacifism defect, then we can have a clear reason to score weapons better in the MR system and get better weapons to shoot for.

 

On the context of elitists, we are talking about the people who are the least of them, those that mimic people who GIT GOOD and turn around with a pious attitude to state “I feel that ‘x’ item is too good and needs to be toned down a lot to be balanced.” In other words a defective person who has the title; but can’t do it. Similar to the movie ‘Gladiator’ these “elitists” who want the attention; but don’t want to put in the effort, so they try to compete with the other person by tearing them down. Just like the famous general in the film some of our quality partners showed us how to GIT GOOD on Warframe.

 

Over the time many Warframe and weapons were in a good niche and it was good. People didn’t have a problem with the Rhino player in 4 hour survival just beefing it up or the Ash player chopping it up. Nor the ember keeping it hot, Trinity keeping alive, Mirage keeping the rooms bright, or even the Vauban keeping things afloat. Just like these frame there has been weapons like the Tonkor, the Simulor, Tonfas and more were in good position. While we did get the Lenz and Napalm Grenades mod with reworks to the Tonkor and Simulor to the current time it does help to get mechanics like the Pyrana Prime’s spree buff.

Tonkor, in it's era, was an overperformer. Everyone was aware of it, it was such an over-performer that people which didn't really like it's mechanics used it. When it was changed they refunded all of the forma put into it for everyone, I found that to be a very good compromise. Anyone which liked it for it's mechanics could keep using it and got free forma, anyone who didn't could drop it and not feel obligated to keep it for it's sunk cost. Cautious shot should be a -50% total damage with -100% self damage, +100% knock back on player at max level. Put it to that, allow it on all self damage capable weapons and it would be useful, but still a bit annoying to use.

What you aren't describing isn't elitists, that is tryhards. People which will put every effort forward to top the scoreboard and if you aren't keeping up you are a scrub in their eyes. If you surpass them without being what they consider the best, they will whine. They care about recognition and winning above all else, never takes the blame for failure, it was always someone else's fault. Tryhards are those that spout what big damage share they have from shooting down transports, and whine if they ever go down. 

Elitists are also those that gloat about being able to do challenge content and refuse any suggestion that it is pointless. They will go to every effort to claim that the stuff like level 300 enemies should be the new standard, ignoring that 99.9% of players don't or can't do that. Elitists are those that are the "You should be able to handle that trash, I'll go do X" type mentality of people abandoning the rest of the players in bounties.

I'm a fairly decent player, I play to win generally but if I am being an obstruction to someone else's enjoyment I know how to throttle it back a bit. Tryhards and elitists do not, they are the people which did cataclysm spam when it was the most powerful nuke in the game. I've noticed in recent play, people will ignore plains bounties to kill the new thumpers. I don't complain, they are a pinata of goodies after all. 

That last paragraph is just making me go "wut?" It doesn't even say anything or progress the conversation. All of those still fulfill their old niches(barring the tonkor), they might have been displaced by better options, but they are still able to function perfectly fine. Rhino, ash, trinity and vauban haven't really changed to a massive degree. Ember has always been good at low level content then fallen off. Mirage is still good at flooding the map with projectiles, most of the complaints about them now are focused on the simulor's absurd particle effects. Simulor has been displaced by better damage options. The only tonfa changed to a notable degree was the telos boltace, and that was understandable. It took all the enemies around it pulled them into you and knocked them down with no cooldown, allowing you kill everything effortlessly with nothing but spamming slide attacks.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

2 hours ago, Deadoon said:

When it was changed they refunded all of the forma put into it for everyone,

No, they refunded ONE forma, regardless of how many people put on it.

In any event, the nerfs are just flavors of the day  - enough try&cryhards whine on the forums and DE nerfs something into the ground leaving behind 10 other weapons just as or even more powerful.  And they do so in a way that just hits the one weapon while not addressing the actual underlying issues that enabled that weapon to be powerful in the first place. 

All that said, I have NO CLUE what the OP was on about  - (s)he wants MORE power? Less power?  

[Deadoon]

Just now, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

No, they refunded ONE forma, regardless of how many people put on it.

In any event, the nerfs are just flavors of the day  - enough try&cryhards whine on the forums and DE nerfs something into the ground leaving behind 10 other weapons just as or even more powerful.  And they do so in a way that just hits the one weapon while not addressing the actual underlying issues that enabled that weapon to be powerful in the first place. 

All that said, I have NO CLUE what the OP was on about  - (s)he wants MORE power? Less power?  

Ah yes, you are right, double checking old messages, it was a forma and a 3 day booster. Some reason thought it was a full refund and also forgot about the booster, but that was over 2 years ago.

[Lutesque]

What ?

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-04-15 at 11:51 AM, Deadoon said:

Tonkor, in it's era, was an overperformer. Everyone was aware of it, it was such an over-performer that people which didn't really like it's mechanics used it. When it was changed they refunded all of the forma put into it for everyone, I found that to be a very good compromise. Anyone which liked it for it's mechanics could keep using it and got free forma, anyone who didn't could drop it and not feel obligated to keep it for it's sunk cost. Cautious shot should be a -50% total damage with -100% self damage, +100% knock back on player at max level. Put it to that, allow it on all self damage capable weapons and it would be useful, but still a bit annoying to use.

What you aren't describing isn't elitists, that is tryhards. People which will put every effort forward to top the scoreboard and if you aren't keeping up you are a scrub in their eyes. If you surpass them without being what they consider the best, they will whine. They care about recognition and winning above all else, never takes the blame for failure, it was always someone else's fault. Tryhards are those that spout what big damage share they have from shooting down transports, and whine if they ever go down. 

Elitists are also those that gloat about being able to do challenge content and refuse any suggestion that it is pointless. They will go to every effort to claim that the stuff like level 300 enemies should be the new standard, ignoring that 99.9% of players don't or can't do that. Elitists are those that are the "You should be able to handle that trash, I'll go do X" type mentality of people abandoning the rest of the players in bounties.

I'm a fairly decent player, I play to win generally but if I am being an obstruction to someone else's enjoyment I know how to throttle it back a bit. Tryhards and elitists do not, they are the people which did cataclysm spam when it was the most powerful nuke in the game. I've noticed in recent play, people will ignore plains bounties to kill the new thumpers. I don't complain, they are a pinata of goodies after all. 

That last paragraph is just making me go "wut?" It doesn't even say anything or progress the conversation. All of those still fulfill their old niches(barring the tonkor), they might have been displaced by better options, but they are still able to function perfectly fine. Rhino, ash, trinity and vauban haven't really changed to a massive degree. Ember has always been good at low level content then fallen off. Mirage is still good at flooding the map with projectiles, most of the complaints about them now are focused on the simulor's absurd particle effects. Simulor has been displaced by better damage options. The only tonfa changed to a notable degree was the telos boltace, and that was understandable. It took all the enemies around it pulled them into you and knocked them down with no cooldown, allowing you kill everything effortlessly with nothing but spamming slide attacks.

While the game was in a more arcade version I did miss out to try infinate blind mirage and self damage Rhino. While they, like a Tonkor, are boxed in with parameters to satisfy the use of them the use of band aid mods would be a jab than a haymaker. Sure it can be hard to manage 300+ weapons ;but with each weapon and rework option it is best to give them all a effect; so the ones that shine can be the majority of the weapons and interest players to get through the first couple of weapons to try everything else.

 

On the ‘skin’ interval, like a statistic, we can look at the quest like like a competence factor. While we can have a engine record data and compare it to observation (Emperical Data) we have two different stories. IF at the time for the counter argument that when playing the void missions when the relics were keys and I observed over a thousand other players / accounts going past 20 minutes in endless and compared it to the active players / accounts it is going to be a different statistic. So in this part a business can generate a claim / product; but empirical data and placebos will say differently and have different factors that can be controlled or allowed in the process. Back to the point, if most players were able to get Excalibur Umbra, then those players were able to handle the solo parts in the game while using the operator too. 

 

When it comes to the term elitists we are going to find some try hard and some people who focus on making the best out old and new weapons when new mods and rivens come out. These people tend to carry the banner to guide members in one area to the other on content. Now the ones that are the major malefactors are like the reverse flash to the flash, the anti christ to the Christ, the bad example to a leader, and dung to metal. In that sense we used to play the raids to have enjoyment and the rewards. It may not been like World of Warcraft to us where 2/3rds of the team were buffers and the last thirds was DPS and Crowd Control characters; but it gave us an outlet to stress test our weapons and characters, primed and new weapons alike. While we MIGHT get the Raids back by the end of the year without the many bugs we had we can look at how our current style of weapons will match up to the revised version. Having weapons like the Secura  Penta with the Tether Grenades, Operator tether grenades on void dash, and others like the ignis wraith are other options that add to the game than another complaint to get the Tonkor nerfed again for a couple of months to be restored. We have yet to see more Prime Effects and Special Variant effects in weapons to be added, like the Pyrana Prime’s 3 kill buff. So if we can bring the possibilities to the table, then we will have diversity in the new primes, new weapons, and special variants than ips changes and reworks that will slightly change weapons, which takes away from the time to bring solid content to the game.

[Deadoon]

You simply can't have everything shine. That implies balance, and if everything is balanced, nothing stands out. Thus it isn't shining. Also the more unique things, the more development time spent, and the more potential bug fixes needed to make stuff stable.

You are not one to talk about statistics, you went on a roundabout explaining it so badly you didn't even get anywhere. People spent extra long in void missions due to you could get many rewards for a single key. The nerfed life support drops to make it less viable to stay forever. You then needed a nekros, rather than just pure dps and CC. 20-40 minutes for survival wasn't unusual, heck it was considered common. Hour+ t4 runs were a bit more specialized, but doable with a proper comp. Relics made the shift between vaulting more smooth and farming specific items easier, but you lost the flood of items from the endless missions. This has nothing to do with statistics, it is simple reward cycles, you spent more time you got more rewards, people built comps around maximizing rewards from single key usages.

You are becoming completely incomprehensible at this point. The gist of what I got from that is that you don't like them changing what is already in place and want them to implement new mechanics constantly. But what is with this inane drivel about malefactors? Also most people which did raids did it solely for the rewards, do your raids, get your arcanes, arcanes are rare valuable trade assets. Many people wanted them reworked. The Jordas verdict in particular was especially disliked, but people did it anyway due to it being the only way to get the rewards.

 

[taiiat]

On 2019-04-09 at 6:50 PM, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

We have to get back to Fragor to Fragor Prime buffing in the game

oh. ok now i understand what this Thread is about.

so, there isn't enough useless Powercreep for you. everything is already infinite, what is infinite+1.

2 hours ago, Deadoon said:

if everything is balanced, nothing stands out.

absolute nonsense. choice A not making choice B completely pointless to exist does not mean everything is bland.
that is completely misunderstanding what balance means. 

if things are balanced, everything stands out, because the choices do different things and are all useful, but for different purposes. rather than you simply pick __ because there's literally no reason not to (or a similar situation wich pick 1% of things because the other 99% have no purpose or use whatsoever).

 

- - - - - 

if one is ok with, and even desires, a situation where choices that they can make, aren't choices because whatever choice you made was already predetermined and you will never think twice about it because one or a small number of choices does everything you may want or need at once - if that's something that's "good", that's just pretty simple that you don't like having choices and don't like content. or in short, every Weapon is gonna be 'Mastery Fodder' if 1% of them do everything at once and therefore you always pick that because it's just better.
which can come full circle too, if everything is made into a Crit Slash and/or Hybrid Weapon (as the game has been moving towards recently), then choices also won't matter because literally everything will be the same.

[Deadoon]

10 minutes ago, taiiat said:

 

absolute nonsense. choice A not making choice B completely pointless to exist does not mean everything is bland.
that is completely misunderstanding what balance means. 

if things are balanced, everything stands out, because the choices do different things and are all useful, but for different purposes. rather than you simply pick __ because there's literally no reason not to (or a similar situation wich pick 1% of things because the other 99% have no purpose or use whatsoever).

If everything is balanced, that means that nothing stands out.  Everything could be completely unique, but if it is balanced against everything else it is still not going to really stand out. Bland has nothing to do with it. Standing out is being more notable or better than the average. You can't have everything better or more notable than average, that isn't how it works.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Deadoon