the K-drive problem

[Klokwerkaos]

So here's the problem.

Devs thought hoverboards would be cool.  To be fair, so did everyone.  Nobody really thought about how they fit into the game, because if they did they would realize they don't.

Superior forms of transportation are as follows:

Any archwing at base speed is objectively faster and you can shoot and have more control.

Operators are objectively faster and you can shoot and have more control of the environment (again).

Warframes in most cases aren't as fast, but in some cases they can be (nova in particular), and they also give you the added benefit of being able to control the environment by murdering everything around you with ease, where as k drives don't.

K drives were a cool idea, on paper, in reality they are trash content padding.  No amount of density to the game (as steven mentioned) will fix that either.

There are a couple of options.  Firstly, you could give players (for free) a k drive as soon as they get on the plains, then they would at least have some use for it for a little while until they get their arch set up.

This isn't a great option, but it's a fix.

Adding more density won't help either, because then the warframe and operator will absolutely be superior because of the control you have of them over the k drive, even if you took out archwings entirely from the game.  Allowing players to shoot from their k drive would also add to their viability for a little bit.

My suggestion is to move it and leave it and stop developing for it, let it be a thing players can have and mess around with early on to feel cool until they learn how the game is actually played.

Also add a room for the dojo to build a custom skate park like the custom obstacle courses.

Add a thing in to the arcades we have (ludoplex) that's a retro game of k drives, but it plays like the speed rift diversion in saint's row 4.  Do something similar with Lunaro too, since that's defunct as hell and keeping it around at this point is simply embarrassing to have in your code.  At least by having these alt game mods it provides some legacy use of the concepts. Also please make frame fighter not trash... this could be a perfectly fine game mode like flappy and wyrmius, but it isn't, it's garbage.  To fix that my suggestion is to make it AI only except when you put it on a single console for events like tennocon, or create a lan connection.  The lag here is the same reason lunaro doesn't work, both of them are trash and don't function as intended.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[Zanchak]

Personally I only ever saw them as a fun side thing.. to be used for fooling around on. That standing is connected to them is really the only "issue" with them but it doesn't affect much currently. I'm not entirely sure what people expected from k-drives to be honest, it was clear from the start they weren't meant to be zapping people across the maps instantly.

[Klokwerkaos]

Just now, Zanchak said:

Personally I only ever saw them as a fun side thing.. to be used for fooling around on. That standing is connected to them is really the only "issue" with them but it doesn't affect much currently. I'm not entirely sure what people expected from k-drives to be honest, it was clear from the start they weren't meant to be zapping people across the maps instantly.

I don't think anyone expected them to revolutionize the game, but it's clear from recent dev streams the devs are lamenting that nobody uses them, but the problem they don't understand is that nobody uses them because they are inferior trash grind and content padding.

[Zanchak]

Just now, Klokwerkaos said:

I don't think anyone expected them to revolutionize the game, but it's clear from recent dev streams the devs are lamenting that nobody uses them, but the problem they don't understand is that nobody uses them because they are inferior trash grind and content padding.

They should stick some half-pipes on the open maps and then just leave them for people to fool around on lol

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

I think K-Drives are pretty fine. As said previously, as a fun tool. And taking it out on Archwing blindly won't solve the issue. Seriously, as someone who already put 2 forma on my K-Drive, why would I want more speed? It's already hard to maneuver with the huge speed I have from mods.

Another thing I truly find stupid is how we must master each K-Drive. Seriously, the stats are the same, apart from that it's purely cosmetic. You tried your first KD? You tried them all. Why force players to level and re-level something so useless with such bad affinity rates.

But hey, at least AW is gonna pay the bill for the mess ups on K-Drive so that should totally fix things. It's not like reworking Archwing for the correct reasons would be the best course to follow, right?

[Ragingwasabi]

kdrives have issues, but i dont mind them being "useless" compared to archwing. theyre a fun thing u can pull out from time to time and mess around with. theres no way a ground based vehicle travelling over mountains will ever beat a rocket that can just fly straight to its destination. buffing up kdrive speed too much will make them difficult to handle, and no longer fun.

but as i stated, kdrives do have issues that need to be fixed.
1) considering the overall significance of kdrives (nothing), they should not be split into so many types. there should only be 1 type (especially considering they ARE all the same statswise), so maxing out any 1 kdrive should be enough.
2) add in enemy collision ragdolls please. we cant shoot enemies, so at least let us smash into them and send them flying. imagine the fun we're missing out on! (that goes for all vehicles)
3) jumps need to be chargeable mid air. not being able to prepare for ur next jump because ur in the air just feels clunky
4) kdrives are rocket propelled so why dont they behave like it? they currently need to hover just over the ground to accelerate forwards. we should be able to accelerate mid air. this would help speed kdrives a bit since, remember, we are constantly trying to jump over hills and mountains in the vallis. Currently when we do a jump, our kdrives slowly decelerate throughout the jump...
5) jumping should automatically cancel toggle crouch/grind!

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Ragingwasabi

[Klokwerkaos]

On 2019-04-16 at 2:34 AM, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

I think K-Drives are pretty fine. As said previously, as a fun tool. And taking it out on Archwing blindly won't solve the issue. Seriously, as someone who already put 2 forma on my K-Drive, why would I want more speed? It's already hard to maneuver with the huge speed I have from mods.

Another thing I truly find stupid is how we must master each K-Drive. Seriously, the stats are the same, apart from that it's purely cosmetic. You tried your first KD? You tried them all. Why force players to level and re-level something so useless with such bad affinity rates.

But hey, at least AW is gonna pay the bill for the mess ups on K-Drive so that should totally fix things. It's not like reworking Archwing for the correct reasons would be the best course to follow, right?

It's content padding and it sucks.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

if at least we could use melee attack and use K-drive in all maps it could be more fun and more useful (and probably less buggy than sprinting with volt boost or submarine archwing).

And add some of the companion mods : vacuum, moa grenades / shields, animal instinct, etc, or an exilus mod (and make frame movement boost affect K-drive)

Edited April 30, 2019 by MonsterOfMyOwn

[Teridax68]

My problems with K-Drives:

• There is not a single function they provide that Archwing doesn't do better, notably traversal.
• K-Drives are far too restrictive, preventing both ability and weapon usage, which puts them at a further disadvantage relative to Archwing.
• K-Drive controls are not made for proper traversal, especially for high-speed movement where it's crucial to have a reactive jump button against incoming obstacles.
• The trick system isn't quite there yet, as currently the highest-scoring tricks tend to be the most boring, i.e. grinding the Pearl or the like.
• K-Drive Affinity grinding is still not great, as it's still far too repetitive. Ventkid Standing is more manageable now that races can be repeated for large amounts of Standing at a time, at least.

My suggestions to improve them:

• Significantly increase K-Drive speed while boosted. I'm not the biggest fan of giving K-Drives combat abilities, and I feel it would be more interesting if Archwing were the more combat-oriented vehicle. By contrast, letting us move far quicker through open levels would make the vehicle feel worth using, and would make for more interesting travel than simply flying in a straight line over all conflict.
• Allow players to use abilities and weapons while in K-Drives, and perhaps also allow Operators to use them too.
• Rework K-Drive controls to enable smooth movement, perhaps by mirroring our parkour moveset better.
• Rework tricks so that they focus on chaining moves across new terrain, e.g. by restricting multipliers to the pickups, and having all moves provide a flat amount of score. Perhaps uncap scores per trick after this.
• Rework K-Drive Affinity gains so that players can go from rank 0 to 30 in about a half-hour of good K-Drive play.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Teridax68

[SordidDreams]

On 2019-04-16 at 9:12 AM, Klokwerkaos said:

add a room for the dojo to build a custom skate park like the custom obstacle courses

That's actually a fantastic idea. One of the biggest problems with k-drives IMO is that the environment just isn't set up for chaining tricks together, even in Vallis, where DE made some effort toward that.

On 2019-04-16 at 9:12 AM, Klokwerkaos said:

perfectly fine game mode like flappy and wyrmius

I'm sorry, what part of flappy or wyrmius is fine? Flappy is literally Flappy Bird, enough said, and Wyrmius is by far the worst 2D shmup I've played in over 30 years of gaming.

Edited April 30, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Buttaface]

On ‎16‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 3:19 AM, Klokwerkaos said:

 they are inferior trash grind and content padding.

Could there be any more hyperbolic, sour way to classify a side game you don't like or see a future for in a very broad game full of side games as "inferior trash grind and content padding?" WTF does that even mean?

To the "topic," weaponize them in some meaningful way that doesn't involve weak, special use mods, and they would have more of a niche. They are far more maneuverable near the ground than AWs are. Could allow secondaries be fired from them at X dmg reduction while frames takes X% higher incoming damage as one of many possibilities off the top of my head.

[Klokwerkaos]

On 2019-04-30 at 1:26 PM, Buttaface said:

Could there be any more hyperbolic, sour way to classify a side game you don't like or see a future for in a very broad game full of side games as "inferior trash grind and content padding?" WTF does that even mean?

To the "topic," weaponize them in some meaningful way that doesn't involve weak, special use mods, and they would have more of a niche. They are far more maneuverable near the ground than AWs are. Could allow secondaries be fired from them at X dmg reduction while frames takes X% higher incoming damage as one of many possibilities off the top of my head.

inferior trash = not worth using because literally any other transport option is better to use

content padding = intentional implementation of unnecessary grind wall to make it seem like there is content, when really, there isn't.

So far, both of those descriptors are met.  I think your assessment of hyperbole is inaccurate.

[Klokwerkaos]

On 2019-04-30 at 10:07 AM, SordidDreams said:

That's actually a fantastic idea. One of the biggest problems with k-drives IMO is that the environment just isn't set up for chaining tricks together, even in Vallis, where DE made some effort toward that.

I'm sorry, what part of flappy or wyrmius is fine? Flappy is literally Flappy Bird, enough said, and Wyrmius is by far the worst 2D shmup I've played in over 30 years of gaming.

by "fine" I mean they are bullS#&$ side games that aren't worth investing heavily into but are decent time wasters, like a mobile game.  frame fighter on the other hand, is absolute garbage and executed very poorly.  It doesn't stand up to or even close to any mobile fighting game, and while wyrmius is a crap scroller, it's just a side gimmick, ie, if you think of it like the free solitaire that comes installed on your computer you're in the right frame of mind, because it's BS amusement you might use a couple of times and forget about it when you install better stuff.  Fighting games on the other hand, are a whole different animal.  Severe lag means it's unplayable, then when we get into the mechanics of it, it's missing core technology from the last 20 years of fighting games.  This might have been passible in 1989 just based on graphics, but the gameplay is about where early nintendo was in the 80s, like two buttons, no combo complexity, block, etc.