New augment system is needed! PLS!

[ZiKi1705]

Hi, adding augments to your build as mods is kinda lame imo. So I'm gonna suggest a new one, but first small talk about augments in general

I really despise augments that just give a buff, augments should be treated like corrupted mods, you gain something, but you lose something else. Or the benefits are so meh that you don't need a negative stat. Good augment is  because you gain something but you lose other functionality. Augments like these should CHANGE how the ability works almost completely.

When this is done to all augments and you tweak strong augments, example , but crit chance of exhalted blade reduced to 0%, augments should be equippable like Arcanes are right now...  max 2 at the same time, on the LEFT side, when you right click the ability AND PLEASE MAKE THE ABILITY CALCULATE THE AUGMENT xD (how many time, you gonna look how much armor would remove but its not written?)

 

so there... my idea... pls   

 

Edit: My bad sirs... its Ability not spell

Edit2: added gif of my idea. pls ignore bad editing and not removing the actual mod from the build xD

Edited April 18, 2019 by ZYKY1705

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

9 minutes ago, ZYKY1705 said:

spell

No.

[ZiKi1705]

1 minute ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

No.

My bad... edited
I apologize 

[Entharias]

The crit on exalted blade is one of the reasons it's somehow viable in high levels (you need to proc Berseker on EB, or it's just too slow and you are better off with literally any other melee).

About the idea, i will go with no.
I think augments should have their own slot (i know DE already denied this, but i think it's still stupid for an augment slot to not be in game), they have an energy cost, and the power creep isn't really a factor, because most of the augments don't make those abilities broken, but just different.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Nakrast

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

9 minutes ago, ZYKY1705 said:

Augments like these should CHANGE how the spell works almost completely.

In general I agree with this.

10 minutes ago, ZYKY1705 said:

augments should be equippable like Arcanes are right now...  max 2 at the same time, on the LEFT side

If by this you mean they use separate slots from your normal mod slots then no. And I believe DE has said no to this as well (power creep). Aside from that, I'm not sure I agree with limiting you to only 2 only because I believe I have 3 or 4 on my Banshee and Nezha. Some of the augments are kinda essential to a frames kit to work with certain play styles or to overcome big flaws with their kit.

The only thing I believe needs to be looked at with the Augment system is making sure that all augments are actually worth giving up a slot for. I can say right now, many are not worth a slot.

[ZiKi1705]

1 minute ago, Nakrast said:

About the idea, i will go with no.
I think augments should have their own slow (i know DE already denied this, but i think it's still stupid for an augment slot to not be in game), they have an energy cost, and the power creep isn't really a factor, because most of the augments don't make those abilities broken, but just different.

sir... but you basically saying what i am... except the ability points... but i can see why and why not.. thats not the issue... 
Having extra mod slots, or having a thing on the side to equip them is bascially the same.. why would you go No then?

 

[ZiKi1705]

Heres my bad editing 

[Atsia]

On 2019-04-18 at 2:24 PM, ZYKY1705 said:

sir... but you basically saying what i am... except the ability points... but i can see why and why not.. thats not the issue... 
Having extra mod slots, or having a thing on the side to equip them is bascially the same.. why would you go No then?

 

Except one systems cost mod points, the other doesn't. DE wants the systems where you have to sacrifice a slot on your build to put in an augment. They've already denied extra slots and an augment slot, so it's highly your suggstions is gonna get any traction within DE (if they even see it).

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2019-04-18 at 7:08 PM, ZYKY1705 said:

Hi, adding augments to your build as mods is kinda lame imo.

The problem with Augments doesn't lie in the fact that they take up a mod slot or that they aren't strong enough.

There are very few Augments that are not a direct buff to the ability, by virtue of being a band-aid to give a function that the ability doesn't have, being a way to bypass limitations that the base ability has, or by straight up giving the ability more damage/functions than it had before.

The real problem lies in the fact that the Abilities in themselves don't actually have enough potential to be worth Augmenting.

A great example is Mesa's Ballistic Battery. The ability is incredibly limited in itself, but the Augment, which grants Status chance on top of the base damage, is a straight buff to it. Unfortunately due to the nature of Ballistic Battery, the Augment's buff is literally not worth costing an entire mod slot.

Another example is Trinity's Well of Life, an ability immediately eclipsed by Blessing from the second you unlock it. Pool of Life dropping Health Orbs is a straight up buff. It plays into other mods, it plays into Arcanes, and it allows players that weren't there to take advantage of the actual cast still have drops they can pick up to gain healing even after Trinity moves on to another location. But it's still not an ability that's worth Augmenting, because it still doesn't make Well of Life a better cast over Blessing.

So, the long and short of the entire thing is... The abilities need to be worth augmenting first then suddenly you'll find that a mod slot is a very justified cost of an Augment mod.

[ZiKi1705]

On 2019-04-21 at 2:16 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

The real problem lies in the fact that the Abilities in themselves don't actually have enough potential to be worth Augmenting.

A great example is Mesa's Ballistic Battery. The ability is incredibly limited in itself, but the Augment, which grants Status chance on top of the base damage, is a straight buff to it. Unfortunately due to the nature of Ballistic Battery, the Augment's buff is literally not worth costing an entire mod slot.

Another example is Trinity's Well of Life, an ability immediately eclipsed by Blessing from the second you unlock it. Pool of Life dropping Health Orbs is a straight up buff. It plays into other mods, it plays into Arcanes, and it allows players that weren't there to take advantage of the actual cast still have drops they can pick up to gain healing even after Trinity moves on to another location. But it's still not an ability that's worth Augmenting, because it still doesn't make Well of Life a better cast over Blessing.

So, the long and short of the entire thing is... The abilities need to be worth augmenting first then suddenly you'll find that a mod slot is a very justified cost of an Augment mod.

THIS! This is the reason i thought new system is needed! 
There are sooo many augments now, that make some abilities interesting.. some different.. but isn't worth a mod slot.. 

But the new MODLESS (not costless btw, it can or should cost points or smth else... maybe Helminth can play into this a bit, he has been idle enough) would fix some of this issues. AT LEAST it would make you TRY the augment.

[Test-995]

I'm fine with this if they merge "just a buff" type of augment into ability itself.

I can't use ivara without infiltrate augment, she is just too slow, and i don't want to lose something just for make things actually useful.

[Benour]

Let me put augments in exilus slot, BAM problem solved. Everybody is happy. We even have augs that can be slotted in exilus slots so whats the problem making every aug being able to go in exilus slot? Why 2 augs are so MUCH more special than rest of them??? 

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

2 hours ago, Test-995 said:

I'm fine with this if they merge "just a buff" type of augment into ability itself.

I can't use ivara without infiltrate augment, she is just too slow, and i don't want to lose something just for make things actually useful.

Can't Ivara go way faster in prowl by using zip line arrows? I haven't played with her recently but if I remember correctly you can Sprint and slide on zip lines while still on prowl to get around a ton faster.

[Test-995]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Can't Ivara go way faster in prowl by using zip line arrows? I haven't played with her recently but if I remember correctly you can Sprint and slide on zip lines while still on prowl to get around a ton faster.

She can, just not that reliable for most part of the game.

Just rolling through maps would be faster even without infiltrate i guess, i think zip lines aren't supposed to be movement ability.

[Ham_Grenabe]

6 hours ago, Benour said:

Let me put augments in exilus slot, BAM problem solved. Everybody is happy. We even have augs that can be slotted in exilus slots so whats the problem making every aug being able to go in exilus slot? Why 2 augs are so MUCH more special than rest of them??? 

Please, this. Just make all augments Exilus mods, and then there you have it - in fact, it'll cost you more to use Augments, because you have to unlock the Exilus slot first, you need to make room, and you still need to use other slots if you want more augments or other exilus mods. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

6 hours ago, ZYKY1705 said:

But the new MODLESS (not costless btw, it can or should cost points or smth else... maybe Helminth can play into this a bit, he has been idle enough) would fix some of this issues. AT LEAST it would make you TRY the augment.

Unfortunately, no, it really wouldn't fix that.

I used to be on the side of this idea until somebody pointed out something very specific; Since every Augment, whether the ability is worth it or not, is a buff to the ability, what you're asking for is power without cost.

"But I'm saying there would be a cost." You will try to counter with. And no. There is already a cost and you're trying to bypass it. Putting in a new system that does not require there to be a mod-slot spent on the Augment is bypassing that designated cost. The cost of using an Augment is that you must sacrifice a regular mod from your build, and whether you judge that the ability is worth it or not does not change this at all.

Even putting them in the Exilus isn't going to happen right now, because DE physically sat down and streamed the discussion on them to say why some were Exilus and some were not, and the definition is 100% clear; if it changes the stats on an ability, stats that are carefully balanced by their internal team to not break the game already, whether that's damage, adding an enemy-affecting function or just base range stats, then it costs a full mod slot. Augments that do none of those, only granting either the Warframe or the specific summon Movement (Mesa's Waltz adds only movement, Escape Velocity is only movement, Hysterical Assault is only movement, Conductor is movement for Resonator only), those go in the Exilus.

Campaigning to have this changed? Not likely to succeed under the current state of what Augments are and do. Putting in a new system that doesn't use the modding slots? Definitely not going to happen under the current state of what Augments are and do.

Spoiler

It's the game equivalent of walking up to a cashier and saying 'This can of soup is a full dollar, but it's only tomato soup, it's not chicken soup, and the chicken soup costs a dollar, so this tomato soup should be less than a dollar because it's not as good and I don't like tomato soup.' Then, when the cashier says 'I can't arbitrarily change the price just because you think it's not as good.' you respond with 'Well I want to pay in this new currency I've developed, it's like dollars, but better.' and the only response to that is... 'Sorry, we don't accept that currency, it's a dollar.'

It's still a can of soup, whether you think it's inferior or not, it costs the same as the next can of soup.

Same with the augments. Making up another system is no different than trying to make up another currency to pay with.

I had this little message hammered home by a much more knowledgeable player than me, over a year ago now, and it still rings true to this day.

While you may not think the Augments are worth the cost, it's not you setting that cost. If all Augments were, in your opinion, worth it, then that would only be more reason to not create some bypass system like the one you're suggesting.

From the other point of view; if this bypass system were created, then all Augments would immediately get nerfed, because the new cost would not be enough for the benefit of the top Augments that you can currently get.

So... sorry my friend, you're just hitting a brick wall with this one, the proposal has been tried and rejected before.

[Atsia]

7 hours ago, Benour said:

Let me put augments in exilus slot, BAM problem solved. Everybody is happy. We even have augs that can be slotted in exilus slots so whats the problem making every aug being able to go in exilus slot? Why 2 augs are so MUCH more special than rest of them??? 

DE's own qualifications on what goes into the slot. The only things viable to go into the exilus slot (for augments at least) are augments that purely affect your movement or allow you to move. It's why Hysterical Assault, Mesa Waltz, Conductor, and Escape Velocity fit into it. The only other two mods that would be up for exilus treatment are Assimilate and Infiltrate, but the argument there is that they allow you to do more than just give movement, Infiltrate by allowing you to bypass spy lasers and Assimalte by letting you increase you DPS by allowing use of your guns. 

[Benour]

1 hour ago, Atsia said:

DE's own qualifications on what goes into the slot. The only things viable to go into the exilus slot (for augments at least) are augments that purely affect your movement or allow you to move. It's why Hysterical Assault, Mesa Waltz, Conductor, and Escape Velocity fit into it. The only other two mods that would be up for exilus treatment are Assimilate and Infiltrate, but the argument there is that they allow you to do more than just give movement, Infiltrate by allowing you to bypass spy lasers and Assimalte by letting you increase you DPS by allowing use of your guns. 

Actually i learned something new. 👍

And what the hell is conductor gonna check that when i get home. Cheers.