Old Jupiter defense/interception map must be brought back

[GourangaPL]

I like the Gas City rework, new tilesets and textures except for one detail. I don't really care about the new defense map (used on Io/Sinai) and about the part of community that likes it. I don't like this map and i just want to play on the old layout, but once again DE forgot there is a difference between adding content and replacing content and once again they removed important part of the game... So my point is just give us back old defense map on Jupiter, it may even be old layout with new textures, whatever, the old Io must be available. You did that mistake once with defense map on Ceres, don't make it again with Jupiter please.

[peterc3]

58 minutes ago, GourangaPL said:

the old Io must be available

Dying to know how you think this was going to play out.

[GourangaPL]

Well the point is there's no sense in removing working content from game. I used to play a lot on old Io and DE took me possibility to do it, which is not fair. They should've added new map but leave the old one so people who like the new one could play on it and people who don't could stay on old version. Why didn't they remove old weapons like tonkor? Or why didn't they remove old frames like loki? Why then do so with maps, it doesn't make any sense.

[Ham_Grenabe]

That's not how any of this works. 

[ExcaliburUmbra]

3 hours ago, GourangaPL said:

Why didn't they remove old weapons like tonkor? 

In a way, they already have if you want to get technical about it. Tonkor received several nerfs and changes over the course of its usage, and now players who liked how it originally played can never use it like they did before. The original Tonkor does not exist in the game anymore, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[fr4gb4ll]

i disagree. sure, the old one was good, but only because it was way too easy to rule with certain frames and weapons. the new map forces the players to move a bit more (though, some nukers still can rule the map easy enough).

[GourangaPL]

Ok, tonkor was nerfed, but technically it's still in game. Removing content is unforgivable and mustn't be done.If DE wants that new map to be in the game ok, i don't care, but let the old one be still in game too.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, GourangaPL said:

Ok, tonkor was nerfed, but technically it's still in game. Removing content is unforgivable and mustn't be done.If DE wants that new map to be in the game ok, i don't care, but let the old one be still in game too.

They didn't. There is still a defence mission on Jupiter. It is using a new tileset. Io is still in the game. It is the same content changed. Just like the Tonkor. This logic would let Miragulor still nuke every PC because 'you can't remove old content' like that interaction, or keep around Draco, Viver, and whatnot.

Not to mention, of course, that there may be a wealth of reasons DE wanted to change it - such as how easy it was to farm, for example. Wouldn't be the first time - I'd like to bring up Draco and Viver again. I can't say in relation to your reasoning, because you've given none, just that it 'must' come back.

[Buttaface]

Was headed to this subforum to make a thread on this and saw this one, so will add here. Old Io was one of the better defense maps in the game, a personal favorite of mine and many I've played with over the years. This was  because of the unique "king of the hill" aspect that placed players at the top of a pyramid with swarms of mobs heading up the hill from all directions. The fun comes from seeing the swarms and moving back and forth across the hill to kill them and prevent them from getting to or significantly damaging the objective.

Of course it wasn't particularly challenging in early waves, no basic WF maps are, but depending on player experience, gear and team composition, could get very interesting and tough past a certain point of waves. That map was one of the reasons I got hooked on your game. I believe many feel similarly.

To be blunt, new Io is awful. It is atrociously bad. It inverts the pyramid and has all manner of unnecessary maze paths feeding mobs into the map. This hangs mobs. If this was intentionally done to slow things down, well it worked, and now the map is BAD. Slow, mobs hang, no fun. Played an arbitration on it last night, all agreed the map sucked, one player even left after wave 6 or so without bothering to stay four more waves for the reward. No one wanted to stay past wave 10 despite that the team was doing very well and could have easily remained.

Please consider that just because a map is popular, an outsized number of players use it, doesn't necessarily mean that anything wrong is going on, but usually something right is going on. Over the years you have jiggered with many of the FEW really good maps in your game, and always negatively. Asteroid cave defense is a perfect example. Akkad, where mobs now hang in the halls, is another.

Long enough, the point is that just because players apparently love a particular map and play it disproportionally doesn't mean any exploits are occurring or outsized gains. What it usually means is that many of the rest of the options available, raised platform defenses on Earth, Mars, etc., corpus raised platform defense, corpus "Ice cavern" defens that have always hung mobs, are so BAD that players flock to the better alternatives. Moreover, just putting a graphics person on reworking a map is not enough. It needs to have its spawning and fun factors tested thoroughly.

Please consider reverting Io or at least redesign it to maintain some of its unique character. It is just plain bad now.

[Educated_Beast]

I don't like new map because they removed the drop ship after wave 1.  It used to be a easy way to open the kill enemies on drop ship riven challenge by nuking wave 1, getting to dropship, kill, then exit and repeat.  

Now we have to roam earth / Venus looking for spawns.  I much prefer a gauranteed spawn location.  Random spawns on riven challenge blows.  

Add back in dropship after wave 1 and I'm happy with new map.  Otherwise, no reason to go back.  

 

[Lobosandia]

1 hour ago, Educated_Beast said:

I don't like new map because they removed the drop ship after wave 1.  It used to be a easy way to open the kill enemies on drop ship riven challenge by nuking wave 1, getting to dropship, kill, then exit and repeat.  

Now we have to roam earth / Venus looking for spawns.  I much prefer a gauranteed spawn location.  Random spawns on riven challenge blows.  

Add back in dropship after wave 1 and I'm happy with new map.  Otherwise, no reason to go back.  

 

There's a drop ship on the Europa defense /interception

[Vulture051]

On 2019-05-30 at 5:21 PM, fr4gb4ll said:

i disagree. sure, the old one was good, but only because it was way too easy to rule with certain frames and weapons. the new map forces the players to move a bit more (though, some nukers still can rule the map easy enough).

_{It's not hard, it's just so slooooooooooooooooow. Earth's Defense maps have the same problem. Warframe's enemies are known for being dumb and the number of paths they can take on Earth & New-Jupiter Defense slows it to a crawl.}

Edited June 8, 2019 by Vulture051

[fr4gb4ll]

17 hours ago, Vulture051 said:

_{It's not hard, it's just so slooooooooooooooooow. Earth's Defense maps have the same problem. Warframe's enemies are known for being dumb and the number of paths they can take on Earth & New-Jupiter Defense slows it to a crawl.}

well, at earth there always was (and still is) the annoying problem with enemies spawned into the walls and floors of some locations - at least that isn't happening in the new jupiter map (as far as i witnessed at least)... it also was (at times) a problem with the old jupiter map, but since one player at least was usually a nuker-frame, it didn't really matters. on earth, there often were new(ly) players active without the 'benefit' of such frame-build.

but, like i said, on the new jupiter map, you still can cheese the mission with a nuker (like we can do in almost every defense and many interceptions too) - so, no big deal in my book about the map change...

Edited June 8, 2019 by fr4gb4ll

[QuickSpy]

Honestly I think they should've just remastered the old map, and done what they did with Uranus when they made a new tile for defense. Have a random chance to spawn one or the other just like on Uranus, this way both tiles get the same chance to be played and those who prefer one over the other can play the one they want to.

As a side note, I hate how DE continually make defense maps more and more complicated for the AI to maneuver through, as many have stated on this post alone, warframe''s AI is exceedingly stupid and giving them excessive paths to take makes everything a drag, plus this new map suffers heavily from enemies spawning in walls.

Some maps are played more than others, it's not a bad thing, for instance, I don't play Akkad to lvl things anymore because I hate the tile. A reason that Hydron is popular (other than it's grineer and good for lvling) is because it's got good map flow, think of the backlash if they were to change that tile to something akin to the changes made to Eris (They probably will when the reworked ship interiors comes around)

[Aesthier]

I agree about reverting IO. I much preferred the old tileset over the new one.