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Let's talk about Gore & Combat system

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Posted (edited)

Hello ladies and gentlemen!

Today I will tell you my ideas to improve the game.

 

That said, we started!

This time I would like to share my ideas to improve the Gore system in the game:

 

Gore system:


Concept:
Over the years I have noticed that this system has received many changes, however, these changes do not seem to work properly and the system is still very limited so objectively speaking the idea is to expand and improve this system as much as possible:

Examples: 

Note: Also the gore only looks more focused on the slash damage and should not be so (that limits a lot)

Gore levels:
Levels derived from the gore that depends on how many attacks a limb receives, in addition to the strength of the attack and resistance of the target

  • Level 1: Weak

One or several attack: The exposure of the wounds will be small and the probability of dismemberment will be low

  • Level 2: Average

One or several attack: The exposure of the wounds will be intermediate and the probability of dismemberment will be average

  • Level 3: Strong

One or several attack: The exposure of the wounds will be big and the probability of dismemberment will be high


Gore Meter:
It will be placed in different ways depending on the level of the stealth of the players (If the level of disaster is high the meter will rise, however, if it is low the meter will go down) also give different characteristics to the players regardless of where is located

  • Meter: Low

The exposition of the wounds will be very low and the probality of dismembrement will be zero (0%), in addition you will not leave traces in your murders and you will not expose yourself to the blood stains which will not unleash the smell

  • Meter: Medium

Average 

  • Meter: high

The exposition of the wounds will be devastating and the probality of dismembrement will be immediate (100%), you will also leave traces in your murders and expose yourself to the blood stains which will unleash the smell of them

Pain subsystem:
It will deal with the different effects that can be had when a limb receives damage:

  • Sensitive:

These beings will be sensitive to which will have different desbonifications depending on which is the affected limb (Less precisions, Less movement, etc)

  • Immune:

These beings will be immune to pain

  • Masochists:

These beings will be sensitive to pain but this will give them bonuses depending on which is the affected limb (More precision, More movement, etc)

Damage to the limbs:

Players can damage the extremities (torso, back, head, arms, legs) of the NPC which will have different effects on them, in addition each limb will have different resistances and reactions to damage

Note: It will not be the same as the pain subsystem

Weak points and strong points:
Each NPC will have different weak / strong points that can be located in one or more limbs

  • Strong points:

These points will receive less damage and may even be immune

  • Normal points:

Average

  • Weak points:

These points will receive more damage and could even be devastating for the objetive

Gore and stealth:
Basically the gore effects on stealth, depending on how you play

  • High Gore :

Kills with high levels of gore will leave traces of you and will stain what could emanate an odor that alerts enemies

  • Low Gore:

Kills with low level of gore will not leave traces and will not stain you

Gore-based missions:
As the name implies, these are missions that will be based on gore levels

Competitive:

  • High Gore: Players will have to demonstrate great devastation in their killings (high gore) to earn points and win the game
  • Low Gore: Everything opposite to high Gore

Note: Players will play separately

Cooperative:

  • High Gore: The players will have to cause a great devastation towards the enemies with the objective that they flee
  • Low Gore: Everything opposite to the High Gore

Note: The players will play together

Rewards according to your level of gore:

The rewards could vary from Sigils to animations, etc. and as the title says it will depend on your level of gore

Gore through the health bar / shield / armor

  • Armor bar:

When the bar receives damage the armor will begin to detach from the enemies (depending on which is the damaged limb)
until it is completely destroyed

Note: This means that the armor now can be destroyed without using a specific damage (Corrosive)

  • Shield bar:

When the bar receives damage, the shield will start to deactivate from the enemies (depending on which is the damaged limb)

  • Health bar:

When the bar is damaged, the skin of the enemies will be devastated (depending on which is the damaged limb)

Note: The aforementioned effects will depend on the user's gore levels

 

Balance and imbalance in combat:

each enemy or player will have levels of balance that will be determined by their weight (warframes, etc.) and by the weight they are carrying (weapons, mods, etc.) and this will have different influences in combat

  • High weight

Balance: high
they are less likely to be unbalanced, their imbalance recovery speed is slow, their accuracy is high, targeted speed is slow, sheath speed is slow, slow reload speed, slow movement speed

Note: those are the characteristics of the weight of the players and the weight they are carrying

  • Weight: regular

Balance: regular
its characteristics are regular

  • Low weight

Balance: Low
they are more likely to be unbalanced, their imbalance recovery speed is fast, their accuracy is low, targeted speed is fast, sheath speed is fast, fast reload speed, fast movement speed

Speed of recovery
The speed of recovery determines the time it takes for the player or the enemy to recover from the imbalance, the weight will influence this

Stability and imbalance
if the players are stable they will not have problems to attack, move or defend themselves but if they are unbalanced they will have problems to do those things

 

 

I hope you liked it

Thanks for your attention!

Edited by (PS4)StationOfDead
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How would this work for people who don't like Gore and subsequently turn it off? What about people who are satisfied with the current amount of Gore and don't want more?

How will the missions or rewards work? Would there just be none available, or just no way to determine performance?

What does adding large amounts of gore actually add to the experience that the current amounts don't? 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Gore and stealth:
Basically the gore effects on stealth, depending on how you play

  • High Gore :

Kills with high levels of gore will leave traces of you and will stain what could emanate an odor that alerts enemies

  • Low Gore:

Kills with low level of gore will not leave traces and will not stain you

So what happens if I have gore turned off and try doing a stealth mission, with your idea implemented?
I would just be apparently randomly penalized because I can't see the gore that alerting all of the enemies?  How would that be fun for anyone involved?

Also I would hate to have my weapons chosen for me in a stealth mission and go "Well, I can't use any of these fun weapons...they'll just cause the spy vault to randomly fail because apparently they are high gore weapons....and I can't see any of it..."

This would just be annoying and randomly punishing for no benefit.

1 hour ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Pain subsystem:
It will deal with the different effects that can be had when a limb receives damage:

  • Sensitive:

These beings will be sensitive to which will have different desbonifications depending on which is the affected limb (Less precisions, Less movement, etc)

  • Immune:

These beings will be immune to pain

  • Masochists:

These beings will be sensitive to pain but this will give them bonuses depending on which is the affected limb (More precision, More movement, etc)

Please tell me: When would this ever actually come into effect in a game like Warfarme?
Even at Sortie 3 levels with enhanced armor grineer we can still easily one or two shot pretty much anything the game throws at us....so when would any of this "pain subsystem" come into play and actually be seen by players?

This seems like a ton of work for DE to implement, fix bugs, and so on....and no one would ever actually see it in action because we would just one-shot the enemy anyway and completely bypass the entire "pain" system.

Maybe in a much lower powered game where the TTK for average enemies wasn't less than 1 second this might be a useful idea.  I just don't see it being a good thing to implement because the effects wouldn't be noticeable at nearly any level of play.

1 hour ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Damage to the limbs:

Players can damage the extremities (torso, back, head, arms, legs) of the NPC which will have different effects on them, in addition each limb will have different resistances and reactions to damage

Note: It will not be the same as the pain subsystem

Same complaints as the above apply here.
When would limb damage actually be used in this game when a single shot to the foot kills the enemy instantly?

Fact is that no TTK in this game is high enough to go "You know what?  I won't just shoot this enemy in the head a few times and kill them, I'll instead shoot their arms to disable their weapon!"
Everyone would just shoot them in the head or body a few times and kill them...which has the effect of permanently disabling their weapon, and done a lot faster than trying to damage their arms.

1 hour ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Gore-based missions:
As the name implies, these are missions that will be based on gore levels

Competitive:

  • High Gore: Players will have to demonstrate great devastation in their killings (high gore) to earn points and win the game
  • Low Gore: Everything opposite to high Gore

Note: Players will play separately

Cooperative:

  • High Gore: The players will have to cause a great devastation towards the enemies with the objective that they flee
  • Low Gore: Everything opposite to the High Gore

Note: The players will play together

So basically: Players that don't play with gore enabled need not apply as they simply can't participate and earn the rewards!
Further this just seems like a mission that would heavily restrict weapon choices for no reason.

I mean with low gore I would just bring an Ignis, or Amprex, or Atomos, as those can't really dismember and create any gore at all.
Meanwhile for high gore I would just bring a Tigris Prime, or explosive weapon, as those would be guarantees of lots of gore.

That's just artificial weapon restriction...for what purpose?

1 hour ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

my ideas to improve the game.

In closing, please tell me:
How would this really improve the game?

I can understand the spectacle of seeing gore shower from everything, or attempting to avoid it, but what would it really bring to the game?
Especially when you have to consider all the players that would leave it disabled.

Why should DE spend all the time, effort, and money to make a system like this?

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vor 29 Minuten schrieb Loza03:

How would this work for people who don't like Gore and subsequently turn it off? What about people who are satisfied with the current amount of Gore and don't want more?

How will the missions or rewards work? Would there just be none available, or just no way to determine performance?

What does adding large amounts of gore actually add to the experience that the current amounts don't? 

For me the OP, what i read out of it, seems like those small kiddies who enjoy gore like in Mortal Kombat or so and see it as the onyl way to show the game is "adult" enough, because gore and blood is so effective to show things apperently for them, you know, the graphic peopole who only enjoy a game for its graphics instead of its gameplay.

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1 minute ago, Marine027 said:

For me the OP, what i read out of it, seems like those small kiddies who enjoy gore like in Mortal Kombat or so and see it as the onyl way to show the game is "adult" enough, because gore and blood is so effective to show things apperently for them, you know, the graphic peopole who only enjoy a game for its graphics instead of its gameplay.

Indeed.

Gore is a tool. Just adding gore doesn't make a game better.

Case and point: Metal Gear Rising Revengence. In the original Japanese version of the game, the blood is white for 99% of the enemies except Jetstream Sam in your showdown with him, at least from what I've read

The blood being white ties into the theming of the game with it's questions of what makes someone human, and makes the reveal around the middle of the game more impactful, as your foes have been dehumanised right down to their internal organs up until that point. That single spray of red blood in the fight with Sam demonstrates his humanity.

But nah, just make everyone bleed.

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hace 13 horas, Loza03 dijo:

How would this work for people who don't like Gore and subsequently turn it off?

Censorship could range from changes to the color of blood (or other fluids) to limitation of dismembrement, that is, the concept will continue there but in a different way
 

hace 13 horas, Loza03 dijo:

What about people who are satisfied with the current amount of Gore and don't want more?

Could you explain what is that current amount of gore? Because what I see is a gore system that is only focused on the slash damage which seems wrong to me, besides it does not seem very satisfactory when you know that the system can be improved even more
 

hace 13 horas, Loza03 dijo:

How will the missions or rewards work? Would there just be none available, or just no way to determine performance?

Basically the missions would rotate in a competitive / cooperative environment with parameters derived from the gore, that is, sometimes you will have to do kills with a lot or little gore, and as for the rewards I can not say much since that does not depend so much on my

hace 13 horas, Loza03 dijo:

What does adding large amounts of gore actually add to the experience that the current amounts don't? 

As for the levels of gore, what I propose would give more detail, more logic and could even be easier to work, why? because the current gore in the game does not have a concept and established order

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hace 12 horas, Tsukinoki dijo:

So what happens if I have gore turned off and try doing a stealth mission, with your idea implemented?
I would just be apparently randomly penalized because I can't see the gore that alerting all of the enemies?  How would that be fun for anyone involved?

No ... even if you disable the gore the concept will remain there, deactivating it will only censor it but not eliminate it
 

hace 12 horas, Tsukinoki dijo:

Also I would hate to have my weapons chosen for me in a stealth mission and go "Well, I can't use any of these fun weapons...they'll just cause the spy vault to randomly fail because apparently they are high gore weapons....and I can't see any of it..."

Again ... No ... Your level of stealth will depend on yourself, obviously the weaponry will have a lot of influence on that but if you want to be stealthy or noisy you will have to prove it, that is, if you do not want to attract attention try to do clean kills instead if you want to draw attention then devastates your enemies, in addition the gore meter also influences that

hace 12 horas, Tsukinoki dijo:

Please tell me: When would this ever actually come into effect in a game like Warfarme?
Even at Sortie 3 levels with enhanced armor grineer we can still easily one or two shot pretty much anything the game throws at us....so when would any of this "pain subsystem" come into play and actually be seen by players?

This seems like a ton of work for DE to implement, fix bugs, and so on....and no one would ever actually see it in action because we would just one-shot the enemy anyway and completely bypass the entire "pain" system.

Maybe in a much lower powered game where the TTK for average enemies wasn't less than 1 second this might be a useful idea.  I just don't see it being a good thing to implement because the effects wouldn't be noticeable at nearly any level of play.

That subsystem is basically a derivative of the damage to the extremities (which apparently did not read) with various effects that occur when one or several limbs are damaged, and obviously the idea is that everyone can notice it, whether strong or weak, that's where it comes the part of the damage to the limbs, and yes, that would involve a lot of work but there is no hurry, besides if you do not know what the damage to the limbs is, look at this:

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjbA_7zVMrA

hace 12 horas, Tsukinoki dijo:

Same complaints as the above apply here.
When would limb damage actually be used in this game when a single shot to the foot kills the enemy instantly?

Fact is that no TTK in this game is high enough to go "You know what?  I won't just shoot this enemy in the head a few times and kill them, I'll instead shoot their arms to disable their weapon!"
Everyone would just shoot them in the head or body a few times and kill them...which has the effect of permanently disabling their weapon, and done a lot faster than trying to damage their arms.

You are not understanding the concept, I will explain it, the idea is that when you damage a limb (torso, back, head, arms, legs) only that limb is damaged, that is, you will not kill an enemy if you damage one of his limbs (unless that is his weak point) instead of that you will have to damage several of his limbs in order to kill him

hace 12 horas, Tsukinoki dijo:

So basically: Players that don't play with gore enabled need not apply as they simply can't participate and earn the rewards!
Further this just seems like a mission that would heavily restrict weapon choices for no reason.

I mean with low gore I would just bring an Ignis, or Amprex, or Atomos, as those can't really dismember and create any gore at all.
Meanwhile for high gore I would just bring a Tigris Prime, or explosive weapon, as those would be guarantees of lots of gore.

That's just artificial weapon restriction...for what purpose?

As I mentioned before, although the censorship is enabled the gore will remain there, so if you can apply, it should be noted that the gore will depend on how you use your weapon, in a cooperative environment I see it functional but I would not be sure of the competitive environment

hace 12 horas, Tsukinoki dijo:

In closing, please tell me:
How would this really improve the game?

I can understand the spectacle of seeing gore shower from everything, or attempting to avoid it, but what would it really bring to the game?
Especially when you have to consider all the players that would leave it disabled.

Why should DE spend all the time, effort, and money to make a system like this?

To make a good game you need to improve all its aspects, whether big or small, you have to improve because that is what makes up a game and in this case the gore is one of those aspects (one of several), so there is to improve it as much as possible

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hace 12 horas, Marine027 dijo:

For me the OP, what i read out of it, seems like those small kiddies who enjoy gore like in Mortal Kombat or so and see it as the onyl way to show the game is "adult" enough, because gore and blood is so effective to show things apperently for them, you know, the graphic peopole who only enjoy a game for its graphics instead of its gameplay.

Oh man ... that's pretty rough

But speaking seriously, I assure you that that is not the idea

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Censorship could range from changes to the color of blood (or other fluids) to limitation of dismembrement, that is, the concept will continue there but in a different way

You have described dismemberment as a gameplay mechanic. That cannot be turned off, since this is a multiplayer game. How would it work when one player can actively dismember an enemy and have that enemy still be alive (AKA, still an active presence), but another chooses not to see that? If you blow a Grineer's legs off, for example.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Could you explain what is that current amount of gore? Because what I see is a gore system that is only focused on the slash damage which seems wrong to me

It's not just limited to slash damage. There are a variety of kill effects, including burning, corroding and becoming impaled on walls. 

6 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

besides it does not seem very satisfactory when you know that the system can be improved even more

Have you ever heard of overdesigning? It's when you keep adding detail to something that doesn't need it. As I mentioned before with Metal Gear Rising: adding more gore made that game worse.

The current gore system works fine. It gets enemies dead and has them sometimes be dead in fun ways.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Basically the missions would rotate in a competitive / cooperative environment with parameters derived from the gore, that is, sometimes you will have to do kills with a lot or little gore, and as for the rewards I can not say much since that does not depend so much on my

No, like... how would the work for somebody with gore turned off?

Would players just be locked out of this whole mission system, or would they just have no way of knowing how well they're doing because they can't see the gore the mission is designed around?

10 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

As for the levels of gore, what I propose would give more detail, more logic and could even be easier to work, why? because the current gore in the game does not have a concept and established order

As I said before, it is possible to have too much detail. And it would certainly not be easier to work. There would be far more processes running on active AI's, as opposed to a visual effect on a corpse or a couple of non-interactive entities spawned. It would put more stress on the engine to run these enemies, swapping models (as opposed to textures) in real time. Just because another game's engine can handle it doesn't mean the Evolution engine can.

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I really like the idea in concept, but as others have pointed out, it creates too big of gameplay difference for people playing with gore on verses those playing with it off. The system you propose is very heavy on detailed visual feedback, which I think is a great design mechanic. However, there will inevitably be players with gore turned off because of personal preference or because their region doesn’t allow it. Using the same system without the visual feedback takes away the immersion and feels incomplete/unfair. 

I’m all about that masochist idea as a new special enemy type though! As it loses health, it gets more dangerous. I’d love to fight a high level masochist manic eximus or two, lol.

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vor 17 Stunden schrieb Loza03:

You have described dismemberment as a gameplay mechanic. That cannot be turned off, since this is a multiplayer game. How would it work when one player can actively dismember an enemy and have that enemy still be alive (AKA, still an active presence), but another chooses not to see that? If you blow a Grineer's legs off, for example.

Actually it could kinda work but limited wise, i remember in the game  Killing Floor they forced a cut version on some people on steam, some had then behaded enemies due head was shot of but they still attack, while others had only a sort of broken neck with the head to the side instead due blood was completly gone and cut of body parts.

So multiplayer wise its not a issue, rather gameplay wise, but i see the issue.

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Posted (edited)

There are lots of more important problems. Like frankly shietey netcode and constant graphics crashes for example. DE just keeps bringing up new hats instead of fixing these. And you want some fancy gore. Good luck with this, dreamer...

Edited by Darth_BOR

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Something like this suggests elevating gore to the core of the combat system. I'd like to ask @(PS4)StationOfDead why you think gore is so important that it should be a cornerstone of all Warframe gameplay, which is what changes like this would basically turn it into. The 'current system' for gore is fine-it emphasizes that Warframe attacks are powerful and brutal through dismemberment and corpse damage in death animations.

That's all it needs to do. It doesn't need to have a mechanical consequence and honestly, the game would probably be better off if it didn't have any mechanical consequences.

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En 1/7/2019 a las 20:22, Loza03 dijo:

You have described dismemberment as a gameplay mechanic. That cannot be turned off, since this is a multiplayer game. How would it work when one player can actively dismember an enemy and have that enemy still be alive (AKA, still an active presence), but another chooses not to see that? If you blow a Grineer's legs off, for example.

Man, my point is that the gore will remain there even if you deactivate it, it will only be censored, that is, everyone will see it, only that those who have it disabled will see it in another way and I deduce that you know what the types of censorship

En 1/7/2019 a las 20:22, Loza03 dijo:

It's not just limited to slash damage. There are a variety of kill effects, including burning, corroding and becoming impaled on walls. 

I think I explained incorrectly ... The concept has nothing to do with the effects of status / critics (that part is different), that is, it is about how a attack affects the body of a living / dead person, taking in also counts the number of attacks, the force of the attack and the resistance of the limbs

En 1/7/2019 a las 20:22, Loza03 dijo:

Have you ever heard of overdesigning? It's when you keep adding detail to something that doesn't need it. As I mentioned before with Metal Gear Rising: adding more gore made that game worse.

The current gore system works fine. It gets enemies dead and has them sometimes be dead in fun ways.

That is not even overdesign, much less when you know that the system needs it ... In addition, the gore system at MGR is cool, but even so it is very limited, that is, it could be improved even more but they did not and that's what I do not want to happen with Warframe
 

En 1/7/2019 a las 20:22, Loza03 dijo:

No, like... how would the work for somebody with gore turned off?

Would players just be locked out of this whole mission system, or would they just have no way of knowing how well they're doing because they can't see the gore the mission is designed around?

Here we go again ... the gore will only be censored for those who disable it but it will remain there

En 1/7/2019 a las 20:22, Loza03 dijo:

As I said before, it is possible to have too much detail. And it would certainly not be easier to work. There would be far more processes running on active AI's, as opposed to a visual effect on a corpse or a couple of non-interactive entities spawned. It would put more stress on the engine to run these enemies, swapping models (as opposed to textures) in real time. Just because another game's engine can handle it doesn't mean the Evolution engine can.

I know it's not easy, but compared to what that graphic engine has done so far, I think it can be adapted, besides, sooner or later the graphic engine will have to be optimized.

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En 2/7/2019 a las 11:24, (PS4)nekokujo dijo:

I really like the idea in concept, but as others have pointed out, it creates too big of gameplay difference for people playing with gore on verses those playing with it off. The system you propose is very heavy on detailed visual feedback, which I think is a great design mechanic. However, there will inevitably be players with gore turned off because of personal preference or because their region doesn’t allow it. Using the same system without the visual feedback takes away the immersion and feels incomplete/unfair. 

And for that there are different types of censorship, as I told other users, the idea is that although the gore is disabled the gore is there, censored, but it will still be there.

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En 2/7/2019 a las 15:23, Darth_BOR dijo:

There are lots of more important problems. Like frankly shietey netcode and constant graphics crashes for example. DE just keeps bringing up new hats instead of fixing these. And you want some fancy gore. Good luck with this, dreamer...

It is obvious that there are things that have to be fixed, but that does not mean that they can not add new content, that is, fixing things is important but they should not only focus on that.

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hace 16 horas, MJ12 dijo:

Something like this suggests elevating gore to the core of the combat system. I'd like to ask @(PS4)StationOfDead why you think gore is so important that it should be a cornerstone of all Warframe gameplay, which is what changes like this would basically turn it into. The 'current system' for gore is fine-it emphasizes that Warframe attacks are powerful and brutal through dismemberment and corpse damage in death animations.

That's all it needs to do. It doesn't need to have a mechanical consequence and honestly, the game would probably be better off if it didn't have any mechanical consequences.

As I said to another user previously, for a game to improve all its aspects must be improved (without consequences), even if they are small aspects (they are all important), they should be improved as much as possible and in this case the gore is one of them, besides, the gore has ALWAYS been part of the combat system of the games (not only of Warframe) but people only see it as a visual aspect, and yes, the visual is very important in the gore but that only It is a part that shapes it, and that is one of the reasons why there are not many games with good gore systems. It should be noted that the gore system of warframe is quite regular (neither good nor bad) but even if it was good , I would not be satisfied knowing that you can improve even more.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Man, my point is that the gore will remain there even if you deactivate it, it will only be censored, that is, everyone will see it, only that those who have it disabled will see it in another way and I deduce that you know what the types of censorship

If there's still grievous visible injuries... then it's still gore, isn't it? Just slightly less gorey gore. 

7 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

I think I explained incorrectly ... The concept has nothing to do with the effects of status / critics (that part is different), that is, it is about how a attack affects the body of a living / dead person, taking in also counts the number of attacks, the force of the attack and the resistance of the limbs

Enemies killed by fire damage burn up. Enemies killed by corrosive damage have their skin corroded into a brown mess. Enemies killed by certain projectiles get flung and impaled into walls. Enemies killed by certain cold attacks freeze into statues.

Attacks affecting the body of dead persons. Why do we need to take into account the number and force of attacks and the resistance of the limbs?

32 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

That is not even overdesign, much less when you know that the system needs it

Why does the system need it? What does it actually add to the game? You keep saying 'Logic' but there really isn't any reason for more logic to be added here, and it doesn't really add anything more than the current system does. The current system works fine. This isn't a body horror game. You don't need to add detail when there isn't need for it.

44 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

In addition, the gore system at MGR is cool, but even so it is very limited, that is, it could be improved even more but they did not and that's what I do not want to happen with Warframe

You have entirely missed the point.

I pointed out that in an earlier post that in Metal Gear Rising, by un-'censoring' the gore, specifically blood, in areas outside Japan, they made the game worse because the 'censored' blood was involved in the games theming and on of it's most poignant moments - specifically the reveal the Sam was biologically human, as he was the only character to have red blood, including Raiden himself. In other versions, that is no longer the case. The game is worse because they added more gore. Gore isn't some necessary addition - it's a tool. And like any tool, using it when you don't need it is at best wasted effort.

50 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Here we go again ... the gore will only be censored for those who disable it but it will remain there

And you still refuse to suggest how somebody is going to progress when they can't see what they're doing.

Because, again, broken necks and arms and stuff is still grievous injury, and thus still gore.

53 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

I know it's not easy, but compared to what that graphic engine has done so far, I think it can be adapted, besides, sooner or later the graphic engine will have to be optimized.

It's not easy and it has limited value.

That's something you send to the cutting room floor.

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Gore is great to have, but shouldn't affect actual gameplay.

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En 4/7/2019 a las 10:01, Loza03 dijo:

If there's still grievous visible injuries... then it's still gore, isn't it? Just slightly less gorey gore. 

And you want the gore to be eliminated when you deactivate it or what? No, that's not the idea, just imagine seeing the blood of a different color (that's censorship)

En 4/7/2019 a las 10:01, Loza03 dijo:

Enemies killed by fire damage burn up. Enemies killed by corrosive damage have their skin corroded into a brown mess. Enemies killed by certain projectiles get flung and impaled into walls. Enemies killed by certain cold attacks freeze into statues.

Attacks affecting the body of dead persons. Why do we need to take into account the number and force of attacks and the resistance of the limbs?

It seems incredible to me that you do not understand it, assuming that there are videos that explain it, so please watch them

En 4/7/2019 a las 10:01, Loza03 dijo:

Why does the system need it? What does it actually add to the game? You keep saying 'Logic' but there really isn't any reason for more logic to be added here, and it doesn't really add anything more than the current system does. The current system works fine. This isn't a body horror game. You don't need to add detail when there isn't need for it.

Is not it obvious the fact that why it need it after everything I've mentioned? Or is it that you're not paying attention?

En 4/7/2019 a las 10:01, Loza03 dijo:

And you still refuse to suggest how somebody is going to progress when they can't see what they're doing.

Because, again, broken necks and arms and stuff is still grievous injury, and thus still gore.

Look the first comment

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En 4/7/2019 a las 15:22, Test-995 dijo:

Gore is great to have, but shouldn't affect actual gameplay.

Could you please explain why it should not?

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Could you please explain why it should not?

Because it'll be hard to implement "no gore mode"?

I think it's fine if it works.

 

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24 minutes ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

And you want the gore to be eliminated when you deactivate it or what? No, that's not the idea, just imagine seeing the blood of a different color (that's censorship)

Usually when people want gore turned off they want it turned off completely and not just turned into rainbows and glitter. I have no issue with lots of gore in games where I think it belongs (Mortal Kombat and horror games for example), but Warframe isn't one of those games. Not every game needs guts and blood flying everywhere to be good, interesting and fun.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

And you want the gore to be eliminated when you deactivate it or what? No, that's not the idea, just imagine seeing the blood of a different color (that's censorship)

Er, yes. That's what 'turning off gore' means. Turning it off, not turning it into rainbows.

1 hour ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

It seems incredible to me that you do not understand it, assuming that there are videos that explain it, so please watch them

Those videos are demonstration videos of gore systems. Demonstrations won't convince me considering the core problems with implementing this. I need actual reasons why it would help, and those reasons include 'How would this work for people who turn the gore off.'

1 hour ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Is not it obvious the fact that why it need it after everything I've mentioned? Or is it that you're not paying attention?

Saying "It adds logic" and "If it can be improved, it must be." is something I disagree with. You have yet to convince me otherwise.

 

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On 2019-07-01 at 7:18 PM, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

You are not understanding the concept, I will explain it, the idea is that when you damage a limb (torso, back, head, arms, legs) only that limb is damaged, that is, you will not kill an enemy if you damage one of his limbs (unless that is his weak point) instead of that you will have to damage several of his limbs in order to kill him

Basically what this sounds like is "Turn every enemy into a massive bullet sponge where you have to treat each and every one of them like necromorphs!"
I don't think that would do well in a game like warframe, which is much closer to a dynasty warriors like game than deadspace.
I mean, it wouldn't be enjoyable to have to slog through 300+ enemies in an exterminate knowing that you can't just kill them quickly and instead have to spend time disabling them slowly.

That is much to slow paced for a game like warframe.

On 2019-07-01 at 7:18 PM, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

That subsystem is basically a derivative of the damage to the extremities (which apparently did not read) with various effects that occur when one or several limbs are damaged, and obviously the idea is that everyone can notice it, whether strong or weak, that's where it comes the part of the damage to the limbs, and yes, that would involve a lot of work but there is no hurry, besides if you do not know what the damage to the limbs is, look at this:

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjbA_7zVMrA

Yes, I am aware of what limb damage is...but the thing is that every game that uses it has a much higher TTK than warframe.
So unless you are tying to say "Every last enemy in the game needs to have their TTK raised to 15+ seconds!" then I don't see how this would be useful, or beneficial to the game.

Look, please tell me how your pain system and limb damage system would work if I just wipe out an entire room in a single attack.
How would that system come into play?
Or would it essentially be wasted dev time and effort to implement and fix, because no one would actually experience the system?

2 hours ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

And you want the gore to be eliminated when you deactivate it or what? No, that's not the idea, just imagine seeing the blood of a different color (that's censorship)

And what if people actually want to turn it off.
As in disable the body parts flying everywhere and actually disable the blood instead of just having every enemy explode into rainbow colors when killed.

That is what is generally meant by "disabling gore".

Look: I have zero problems with gore where it belongs (MK and such) but I don't want to be showered in gore 24/7 with absolutely zero way to turn it off or mitigate it in some fashion.

Your ideas turn gore into a main cornerstone of the game, which means that it becomes impossible to disable...which isn't a good idea and shouldn't be done.

2 hours ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Is not it obvious the fact that why it need it after everything I've mentioned? Or is it that you're not paying attention?

Small tip here "logic" and "reasons" isn't actually a reason...or a logic.
You have completely failed to actually define what it would bring to teh game and why people would want it.
The most you've said is "logic" and it looking cool....but what actual benefits will the game get from having it?  How will it benefit people?

You also have to explain how it would benefit people that have gore turned off, as a system with this wide reaching of consequences needs to benefit everyone.

2 hours ago, (PS4)StationOfDead said:

Could you please explain why it should not?

Please tell me: What games have core mechanics that are based around gore and body horror that aren't horror games (and I mean games where it 100% matters about gore, not just for the spectacle but actually has mechanical changes to the game).
And then please tell me which of those games are in the same genera that Warframe is in.

I can understand wanting the spectacle of gore, but the simple fact is that there simply isn't any reason to have a cornerstone of the game be "gore and how it affects everything!".  And all of your videos show off "Here's some gorey systems and how they work!!!!" without once actually describing how it would be beneficial.

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