Ash The New Melee META??? Augment is PERFECT - Thanks DE :*

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

It should be a bug made feature tbh.

If they can allow Saryn to be MORE op with her venom overdose augment after it's buff. I don't see the issue with letting Rising Storm do this kind of build up unless they plan to give Bladestorm some kind of massive buff or something ridiculous.

[selig_fay]

Remember what they wanted to do with the combo in melee 3.0 and immediately it becomes clear that this may not be an OP in the future.
Perhaps Ash will be the frame that will receive the endless ragemelee mode.

[000l000]

Le 13/08/2019 à 15:52, JuicyPop a dit :

 

Ash doing his lengthy gimmick meanwhile any warm body with an Atterax has already cleared the map. 

Didn't know Atterax had a 50m range.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Huh. Shortly before the augment update, I tested Ash's 4 and wasn't getting any combo counter from the clones. It'd only build if I also joined in on the stabbing.

Definitely gonna have to give this a look.

[Lupgarou]

while the video shows a nice example of how you can build a combo counter

 

in game it's a lot different unless

1) your solo 

2) the enemies dont get 1 shot from the clones.

so while yes you can build a nice counter, in real game modes you will rarely get to that 4.5 counter

[Somi_xD]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb Lupgarou:

while the video shows a nice example of how you can build a combo counter

 

in game it's a lot different unless

1) your solo 

2) the enemies dont get 1 shot from the clones.

so while yes you can build a nice counter, in real game modes you will rarely get to that 4.5 counter

That's what i thought at first.
And yes, on low lvl it isn't that effective since everything dies with one hit 😄

But after some tests i saw, that you don't need to attack the Marked enemies.
It is enough if Bladestorm is active and you melee any Enemy.

Also how it works.
The Augments affect Melee, as long as the Blade Storm is active you can hit any Mob(it doesn't matter if they are Marked or not).
Any Melee Attack gets those +Hits from the augment, but it's more effective with the Gunblades since all the pellets count as hits and they have punch through.
So 10 Pellets each gets +4 hits from the Augments and hits 4 Enemies in a row.
10x4x4 =160 hits in one shot.
And the Augment is affected by Power Strength.
With my 229% Power Strength in the Video i do get +9 from the Augment.
10x9x4 = 360 in one shot.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Somi_xD

[Nazrethim]

hace 1 hora, TheGrimCorsair dijo:

Huh. Shortly before the augment update, I tested Ash's 4 and wasn't getting any combo counter from the clones. It'd only build if I also joined in on the stabbing.

Definitely gonna have to give this a look.

Targets in the process of being attacked were pretty much in another dimension as far as the game is concerned.

[Lupgarou]

2 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

That's what i thought at first.
And yes, on low lvl it isn't that effective since everything dies with one hit 😄

But after some tests i saw, that you don't need to attack the Marked enemies.
It is enough if Bladestorm is active and you melee any Enemy.

Also how it works.
The Augments affect Melee, as long as the Blade Storm is active you can hit any Mob(it doesn't matter if they are Marked or not).
Any Melee Attack gets those +Hits from the augment, but it's more effective with the Gunblades since all the pellets count as hits and they have punch through.
So 10 Pellets each gets +4 hits from the Augments and hits 4 Enemies in a row.
10x4x4 =160 hits in one shot.
And the Augment is affected by Power Strength.
With my 229% Power Strength in the Video i do get +9 from the Augment.
10x9x4 = 360 in one shot.

ah so that's it then

the effect is magnified with gunblades.

Ivenbeen using the mod but have had a 2h melee equipped and was spin meleeing.

I'll try out the gunblade tonight

[000l000]

Il y a 8 heures, Somi_xD a dit :

That's what i thought at first.
And yes, on low lvl it isn't that effective since everything dies with one hit 😄

But after some tests i saw, that you don't need to attack the Marked enemies.
It is enough if Bladestorm is active and you melee any Enemy.

Also how it works.
The Augments affect Melee, as long as the Blade Storm is active you can hit any Mob(it doesn't matter if they are Marked or not).
Any Melee Attack gets those +Hits from the augment, but it's more effective with the Gunblades since all the pellets count as hits and they have punch through.
So 10 Pellets each gets +4 hits from the Augments and hits 4 Enemies in a row.
10x4x4 =160 hits in one shot.
And the Augment is affected by Power Strength.
With my 229% Power Strength in the Video i do get +9 from the Augment.
10x9x4 = 360 in one shot.

It's more like a "Gunblades are OP" thread then. Sure this augment makes Ash get combo counters like crazy but not that much without tough/numerous/frozen&aligned enemies. In most content you'll get a x2.5 counter, which is already nice but not as broken.

Anyway since melee combo is going to be reworked and if it's ending as a high damage finisher, it'll be less impressive.

[Peter]

Thanks for advice, nerf incoming :v

[JuicyPop]

On 2019-08-14 at 2:11 PM, 000l000 said:

Didn't know Atterax had a 50m range.

Didn't know you stood still while meleeing. 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

How I see it, no matter how strong Ash gets, the issue will always be that his bs is too slow and the marking mechanic is terrible. Other than that you can do two things at once, the activation speed of the old bs is WAY better. 

[Somi_xD]

Am 15.8.2019 um 06:38 schrieb 000l000:

It's more like a "Gunblades are OP" thread then. Sure this augment makes Ash get combo counters like crazy but not that much without tough/numerous/frozen&aligned enemies. In most content you'll get a x2.5 counter, which is already nice but not as broken.

With the augment you get pretty easy up to x3(135 hits) and x3,5(405 hits) in normal content.
But you won't get higher with any other setup anyway in the same content 😄
This augment bug would only really shine at higher lvls.
I agree - i don't think it is broken from a balance aspect but it's broken from a mechanical point  ^^ (it's a bug)

Am 15.8.2019 um 06:38 schrieb 000l000:

Anyway since melee combo is going to be reworked and if it's ending as a high damage finisher, it'll be less impressive.

I guess DE won't get around reworking Ash( at least Bladestorm) if Melee 3.0 looks like they showed us.

[Nazrethim]

hace 6 horas, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

How I see it, no matter how strong Ash gets, the issue will always be that his bs is too slow and the marking mechanic is terrible. Other than that you can do two things at once, the activation speed of the old bs is WAY better. 

The thing is that old BS had a different design paradigm. Old BS was excellent for wiping hordes of grunts, but failed at dispatching tough enemies like Eximus and Field Bosses (G3 excluded) because it deal almost no damage to them. This was balanced by Teleport being able to take them out (Stalker not included). The effective way of using Ash back then was to scout the area, dispatch any eximus or other nasty beforehand, then clean up the rest with BS. With this in mind, building for range was a double edge sword: yes you marked over a wider radius, but you also increased the risk of getting stuck on an eximus. So old BS had a tactical aspect to it and complemented Teleport. Current one overlaps with (and disables) Teleport and has no tactical aspect at all. Sure it hits Eximus really hard, but that came at a cost of ridiculous energy cost and sh*tty mechanics.

The main problem of old BS wasn't the ability itself, it was the idiotic bladespammers who harmed the team trough reckless spam of it. A well played Ash was usually an incredibly asset to any team. Now Ash is meh at best or completely pointless to a team. His effect on the battlefield is no longer noticeable at all.

Old BS, flawed as it was, was better in terms of general design.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2019-08-16 at 2:40 PM, Nazrethim said:

The thing is that old BS had a different design paradigm. Old BS was excellent for wiping hordes of grunts, but failed at dispatching tough enemies like Eximus and Field Bosses (G3 excluded) because it deal almost no damage to them. This was balanced by Teleport being able to take them out (Stalker not included). The effective way of using Ash back then was to scout the area, dispatch any eximus or other nasty beforehand, then clean up the rest with BS. With this in mind, building for range was a double edge sword: yes you marked over a wider radius, but you also increased the risk of getting stuck on an eximus. So old BS had a tactical aspect to it and complemented Teleport. Current one overlaps with (and disables) Teleport and has no tactical aspect at all. Sure it hits Eximus really hard, but that came at a cost of ridiculous energy cost and sh*tty mechanics.

The main problem of old BS wasn't the ability itself, it was the idiotic bladespammers who harmed the team trough reckless spam of it. A well played Ash was usually an incredibly asset to any team. Now Ash is meh at best or completely pointless to a team. His effect on the battlefield is no longer noticeable at all.

Old BS, flawed as it was, was better in terms of general design.

9

Agreed and It`s just a damn shame. The solution was so simple but DE weren't smart enough to figure it out and instead changes the way it works. BTW did you know the marking mechanic was not DE`s idea? it was someone on the warframe reddit that gave them that dumb idea and the worst this is that DE asked for feedback for him but took an idea from the warframe reddit. So what`s the point of asking for feedback on the bloody forums if Rebecca is just going to take it from the wf reddit.

Edited August 18, 2019 by (PS4)Vexx757

[Nazrethim]

hace 1 hora, (PS4)Vexx757 dijo:

Agreed and It`s just a damn shame. The solution was so simple but DE weren't smart enough to figure it out and instead changes the way it works. BTW did you know the marking mechanic was not DE`s idea? it was someone on the warframe reddit that gave them that dumb idea and the worst this is that DE asked for feedback on her but took an idea from the warframe reddit. So what`s the point of asking for feedback on the bloody forums if Rebecca is just going to take it from the wf reddit.

Well, I've stated what my theory about what happened regarding Ash Rework is, but to boil it down:

1- DE didn't want to rework him (nor had any idea what to do) but were also tired of complaints about the fking bladespammers.

2-They asked for feedback and went with the first idea that came out.

3-Good, well-thought ideas didn't really come up on the forum after 2-3 months, by then the marking mode was in progress.

4-DE sort of forgot completely about the whole issue because they were overworked with TWW and Nidus

5-At some point the Art Team in charge of Deluxe skins showed up and something along the lines of this happened:

AT: "Hey, we got the Ash Deluxe ready, how's that rework going?"

Dev Team: "Oh sh*t! we forgot about that! what do we have?"

DT: "So we have a marking system, good enough, ship it and hope the shiny skin distracts the players from the untested rework"

6-They took the initial positive views of the rework as a success (mostly because players at the time, me included, were in fact distracted by the skin and the smoke screen improvement)

7- the hype for the skin settles and players realise it was a titanic nerf that solved nothing at all and made Blade Storm flat out counterproductive to even attempt to use (And it was mathematically proven!). The only ones not really affected by the nerf were the idiotic bladespammers with their max efficiency build, and over half of them jumped boat as soon as BS was no longer a press4towin. The ones mostly negatively affected were the ones who actually used Ash's full kit (because it included other nerfs, like SShadow not working on defense npcs, Rising Storm no longer affecting Body Count and Drifting Contact, etc)

8- A still ongoing debate starts because there are idiots who still don't realise what a colossal piece of guano BS still IS despite the buffs (due to it's very flawed core design) that barely made it go from "so useless it's counteproductive" to "you can use it, it's not good, but you can use it and not shoot yourself in the foot by doing so"

It seems DE paid some attention to feedback, as the recent Rising Storm change made the mod actually worth using. Doesn't make up for the general unpurpose of bladestorm's existence, but at least it adds a gimmick to make pressing 4 at all not a complete waste of time and/or energy. It still lingers in the air if the RS melee hit bug will be fixed or they will allow it.

[George_PPS]

SHHHHHhhhhhhh.....!

[Somi_xD]

vor einer Stunde schrieb George_PPS:

SHHHHHhhhhhhh.....!

o___o
It's to late my friend...

[Otobai]

I main Ash. This augment is really fun. Getting to 2.5 combo in the first room on arbitration is nice.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2019-08-17 at 9:08 PM, Nazrethim said:

-snip-

If what you say is true..

1- That's what the forums for to read ppls feedback so there is no excused for them. 

2- After what I saw, this is true and Rebecca is to blame.

3-DE`s problem is that they design the idea first, then put up feedback which is wrong. They should ask for feedback first them come up with an idea based of the feedback ppl give.

4-I see that as an excuse since there had a different team doing that.

6-Them thinking it was a success is proof that they don`t play their own game. I wasint distracted by the skin I know ash`s bs was going to be crap the moment I saw it on the devstream. My worst fears have come to pass.

7- I must admit, I was one of the bs spammer but only because I either wanted to finish the mission quickly or I was only killer in the team and I wasn't reckless with it. When I play solo I don`t really use bs that much in a team bs is more useful than the other abilities and got the job done.

8- I know they are illogical Angryspy 101 is one of them.

Like I said before even if they made rising storm better his bs is still slow and can`t be used in a team. The only support DE is getting me is me being apart of the number of ppl that play this, other than that, I'm not supporting them anymore.