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Xehalin

How many of you like the current riven system?

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Rivers should be less about raw damage boosts and more about interesting weapon builds or changing how they play.   Less +CRIT and damage and more + mag size, reload, +/- zoom, so on.  So like a rubico riven that increases mag size to 20, but has only 1.5 zoom and a fast reload.  You just turned a sniper rifle into an m14.  Stuff like that.  

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10 hours ago, Morthal said:

^ 2 very different points being made, absolute madness. 
Time is money. Argument solved!

So how does Riven and Kuva sit with me? It's my end game, the last reason to bother with Warframe anymore. The Kuva cost at maximum per roll is too high, should be reduced to 1200-1500 at most per roll. The system in place is very much surprise mechanics but it also helps generate Platinum sales and invigorates the market with the same. Meanwhile collectors like myself who have nothing else to do, can reroll our 'soon to be' 120 rivens until we're happy. 

But then what? What to do once you've got all them Pookimans? That's where the Riven system I think, needs some improvement. What the hell do we do when we've got all the god rolls and no content 😕 !?

Thanks, at least someone gets it. Inb4 nO ItS NoT. He just wants to argue over stupid S#&$.

Well, it depends on what you mean by get all the god rolls? You can't really get a god roll for every weapon because of inventory limitations, and each weapon you decide to farm for just makes the task even harder. I guess if you get a god roll for just every weapon you want instead of every single weapon, it's possible, but not something I'd really wish on anybody. Except maybe our mastery 6 friend here so he can get an idea on how in over his head he is and how ridiculous the whole system is.

Would you think it be better to get rid of the rng influences on the system and instead rely on a progression system similar akin to affinity?

 

So basically, the idea I've been working on goes like this:
New syndicate under Samodeus. Riven cards are now called Apex cards. You pay rep for a veiled Apex card. You slot that into whatever weapon you want the Apex to be for. Unveil it by doing the challenge, it becomes a card that matches the weapon it's slotted in. Challenge has to be relevant to and relevant to the weapon the veiled Apex card is inserted into. No headshot challenges for something like the fulmin, for example. The new card has no stat lines and is basically blank to start with. You have to go out and earn stat tokens, and they can be earned the same way that current rivens are. These tokens are called rivens. The stat you get on your new riven is random and can be rerolled using Kuva.

Desire system implemented when rerolling rivens, allowing you to pick up to 3 desired stats that will have a higher chance of being selected while rerolling. Using the desire system increases the kuva cost to reroll, increasing for every stat you pick. Every 10 rerolls allows you to lock out a stat from the pool, reducing how many stats you have to roll against. Every milestone you reach on rerolls after the first(10 is the first), reduces the lock requirement by one. So your first lock would be at 10, your second at 19, third at 27, fourth at 34, so on and so forth, until you reach the requirement cap of every 5 rerolls.

Rivens are tradeable, veiled Apex cards are tradeable, but once an apex is unveiled or a riven is inserted into an apex card, it becomes bound to the player. Rivens inserted into an apex card become bound to that apex. Your new apex card starts out with 1 available stat line, which is determined by the riven you insert into it. Valued stat rivens are sold for the most plat, but there's a cap on how much plat they can be traded for. No other items can be inserted into the trade to bypass this cap. I was thinking a cap of around 350-500 plat.

Endo system is not used. When you use the weapon in a mission with the apex card inserted, it gains exp that powers up the inserted stats starting with the first line until you reach a milestone, unlocking a second line, and then eventually a third line. Stat %s operate on a level system, starting at level 0 and raising with each level. Outside of missions, you can redistribute exp between inserted rivens, leveling each one up accordingly, and determining which stat is highest or lowest or if they're all even. You can substitute and/or supplement exp with kuva and focus. Disposition determines how much exp it takes to raise the individual stats to the next level, on a curve, as well as what # a riven stat starts at on that weapon. The higher the stats go, the more points they cost to increase. Max disposition weapons have significantly less point costs, making it much, much easier to build say a 400% damage, 300% multishot, 200% cd apex vs a 1 disposition weapon. Max disposition riven stats might start at 30 or 50%, while a 1 disposition weapon might start at 5-15.

The range of stats available are also wider, allowing for a greater customization of a weapon. Things like changing the projectile type, making the weapon silent, or increasing zoom effects while reducing the level become available. You can go higher than 4 stat lines, but every stat line you include past the 4th has a penalty effect on all the stats, reducing them down.

I think my idea is good because it increases the longevity of the system, gives more power back to the players in determining the build for their weapon and getting it to the point they want it to be, it still keeps rivens as a commodity you can sell for plat without making it too ridiculous (and in some cases, exploitable), and the system gives you a lot more freedom with your weapons than before while still allowing DE to balance certain weapons with dispositions. They can even start balancing around rivens, too, because they're a lot more accessible to the normal player.

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Never cared for Rivens at all. They're just there. 95% of my weapons don't even use them and I'm perfectly fine. And even the ones that do have them, I don't use them.

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I personally enjoy rivens, but only within the constraint of the self-imposed rules that I follow. I never buy unveiled rivens, and only use rivens that I unveil and roll myself. I let the rivens I get determine what weapons to get and try, not the other way round. And I almost never roll a riven more than 10 times. Thanks to these rules, I've managed to keep my kuva-farming time manageable, and I've started using weapons that I otherwise wouldn't have considered using without rivens, stuff like phantasma, quanta vandal and prisma grinlok.

As for how I feel about the system as a whole, I'm kind of ambivalent leaning towards positive. I'd probably be a lot more dissatisfied if rivens were more necessary or impactful to the game, but as it stands our time to kill even without rivens is already so short for the most part. It's hard to be angry at rivens for reducing a 0.4s kill time to 0.3s

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I like its concept, but I have a few gripes with the execution:

- I believe once a weapon has reached minimum disposition, no more Rivens should be generated for it until it gets a higher disposition.  Oherwise they are almost competing against standard mods. This helps control bloat.

- The amount of Kuva needed to roll them is unforgiving considering the acquisition rate.

- I believe Rivens should not be tradable. This has created a toxic market that often results in player backlash when disposition is adjusted despite them knowing full well disposition is meant to and should be updated frequently.

- Archgun Rivens should have a unique "Rank 10" disposition. Archguns are supposed to be this "Oh yeah!" short-lived power-up moment, but they are directly competing against other weapons with higher disposition Rivens. Archguns are anti-spacecraft weapons that are outdamaged and outclassed by normal weapons like the Kohm because of this.

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On 2019-08-27 at 2:26 PM, OmegaDonut said:

Rivers should be less about raw damage boosts and more about interesting weapon builds or changing how they play.   Less +CRIT and damage and more + mag size, reload, +/- zoom, so on.  So like a rubico riven that increases mag size to 20, but has only 1.5 zoom and a fast reload.  You just turned a sniper rifle into an m14.  Stuff like that.  

They can be? Some rolls are just utility like you described. It depends on what you want.

i actually have a saw that’s just a little too slow for my tastes and I would be perfectly happy with just attack speed. 

Now, if your suggesting that Damage be removed from the riven stat pool, I don’t think that would fix the problem. People would either ignore rivens or the next most useful stat combo after damage would become the new God Roll Meta.

Edit: maybe if the mods were completely unique, like giving other guns Quatz’s AOE reload or the Struns single shell reload I could be on board.

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55 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

*shrug* - dont even use rivens.

That’s definitely a way to go. If you don’t love it don’t do it!

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On 2019-08-23 at 8:18 AM, Peter said:

No one like it, is just a slot machine.

God Bless this man...

Rivens were a band aid solution by DE to make weaker weapons stand a chance against Meta weapons, the problem is that weaker weapons are at the mercy of RNG so its not really a viable solution imo, not to mention both weak and meta weapons have riven dispositions so meta weapons become even more meta and even more broken, leaving non meta weapons even less viable...

Really sad...

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On 2019-08-27 at 5:26 PM, OmegaDonut said:

Rivers should be less about raw damage boosts and more about interesting weapon builds or changing how they play.   Less +CRIT and damage and more + mag size, reload, +/- zoom, so on.  So like a rubico riven that increases mag size to 20, but has only 1.5 zoom and a fast reload.  You just turned a sniper rifle into an m14.  Stuff like that.  

i do wish that low disp rivens had high disposition for utility stats. 

personally, i wish Rivens had a chance to roll some unique properties, similar to arcanes. 

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