Suggested Volt changes.

[(XBOX)Adaptabilty]

            !Please give any and all feedback!😶😶

         Many people are freaking out about the prospect of Gauss making volt obsolete (Volt will not be obsolete in the slightest). At one point, I was one of these people. However, I realize this would be a great time to suggest volt changes while he is still a hot topic since the reveal of Gauss and volts appearance in the new Warframe trailer. Volt is considered the speed frame, but in reality, his electrical Abilities are his name sake. Yes, we attribute electrical Abilities to speed, and I love speed, though it would be nice to improve his other electricity based abilities ever so slightly. Primarily his 1: Shock and his 4: Discharge.

      1st change: Shock "Enemies hit by shock are Charged, and take 25-30%(pending) weapon damage" unaffected by Ability strength

        Volt's shock is a pretty ok ability, it's a one handed cast, it provides a short stun, applies status, and has an augment in the form of shock trooper, which was recently changed to be casted on yourself that applies/increases electrical damage on weapons. It also, buffs the electrical damage of volts sheild and creates a radial shock explosion when casted on enemies affected by discharge. It is an ok first Ability but despite the things mentioned above it doesn't have that much use in it of itself. As such this would be a way to make shock more appealing to use by itself and combined with his 4 could make the weapon damage buff spread across  enemies affected by his 4 to a certain extent. (This wouldn't be too unlike the secondary effect Nova's 4, or Nezha's chakram)

       2nd change: Discharge. Increase the stun duration of discharge. 

        DE has extressed disinterest in having discharge be a fullfleged crowd control option. Despite this, I believe that by increasing the stun duration of Discharge to a short 20 seconds or so would improve the usage and utility of discharge. This would be somewhat similar to the more limited yet still useful cc ability Harrow's 1 is. This Change unlike his 1st Change does come with some nuance. For instance, If the duration of discharge is too high along with a really large/expanding aoe, it could result in a cc Ability that is too powerful, as such making it more of a limited, but not abysmal duration like it is currently, combined with the energy cost attributed to a 4th Ability, would make the ability more balanced. The other issue with discharge is that despite doing ok damage to lower level enemies, or enemies without armor such as the infested, it lacks a use against armored units. it can't actually hurt them and even if it did, the actual duration of the ability is to Low to keep up with the energy cost of reusing the ability.

      The general idea of the small volt changes  is to have him use all his abilities in tandem, to control the Battle Field while spreading damage. At lower levels shock, discharge can be used to kill enemies. All while you use speed to increase the mobility, reload speed and melee attack of you and your team. At mid-high levels, shock is used to weaken enemies it can't kill, and discharge is used to deter enemies so they can be easier to take down. This can be done while you and your team are using Volt's speed to run around and kill enemies before Discharge runs out and needs to be recasted (assuming you are using discharge). The shield being used to also improve the damage of your weapons and provide light protection. 

    I think these smaller changes could make volt's other electrical Abilities seem more appealing to use aside from just his speed. 

 

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Edited August 29, 2019 by (XB1)Adaptabilty
Typo

[Teridax68]

Outside of some issues with Speed not always playing nice with teammates, my main problem with Volt has always been the overlap between Shock and Discharge: Discharge is basically just a bigger, better Shock, and using the former makes the latter redundant. In this respect, I like the suggestions here, because they offer at least some degree of differentiation by giving Shock and Discharge slightly more different functionalities, and implementing some synergy between the two. However, I still do think there is a heavy amount of overlap between the two abilities even after these changes, since Shock would still be a stun/debuff effect, whereas Discharge itself remains a massive stun/nuke.

Beyond this, I also think making Discharge an even stronger stun should probably not be the way to go, because even now the ability is a press-4-to-win button that can nuke high-level crowds of enemies in addition to halting the battlefield, or at least whoever survives (which is ultimately why DE doesn't want to buff the ability's stun). I do, however, very much sympathize with wanting to improve its utility, and in this respect I'd personally want to sacrifice the ability's existing damage and stun in order to dial the Tesla tower effect up to 11, which could also include the debuff you'd want to apply on the 1: if Discharge debuffed enemies to take bonus damage, and then also spread it to other nearby enemies via electrical shocks with each hit, Volt's 4 would have the benefit of turning all weapons fire into potentially massive AoE damage. Going further, if this helped spread Shock's chain lightning, and enhanced its damage, it would establish a clear difference between the two without having to attach that many more additional mechanics. If Volt's CC ends up being weak after this, it would be all the more reason to buff Shock's stun instead, and have it spread via Discharge.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Remove the Megathread and PSA tags, you’re not DE.

Volt is the Electricity frame not the speed frame. Why do people care so much that he’s not going to be the fastest anymore?

[peterc3]

12 hours ago, (XB1)Adaptabilty said:

despite the things mentioned above it doesn't have that much use in it of itself.

Cheap CC is bad, but just doing more unmoddable damage is better?

12 hours ago, (XB1)Adaptabilty said:

increasing the stun duration of Discharge to a short 20 seconds or so

20 seconds is not short in a game like Warframe.

[Avadir]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Cheap CC is bad, but just doing more unmoddable damage is better?

20 seconds is not short in a game like Warframe.

yes my current volt build is 10 sec and is more than enough to murder stun enemy with my weapons, i think 10 sec base duration is enough 20 sec is kanda overkill and make the dps even powerful, and i guess thats what DE is avoiding

 

 

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Remove the Megathread and PSA tags, you’re not DE.

Volt is the Electricity frame not the speed frame. Why do people care so much that he’s not going to be the fastest anymore?

yes he mention that too here below

 

13 hours ago, (XB1)Adaptabilty said:

            !Please give any and all feedback!😶😶

         Many people are freaking out about the prospect of Gauss making volt obsolete (Volt will not be obsolete in the slightest). At one point, I was one of these people. However, I realize this would be a great time to suggest volt changes while he is still a hot topic since the reveal of Gauss and volts appearance in the new Warframe trailer. Volt is considered the speed frame, but in reality, his electrical Abilities are his name sake. Yes, we attribute electrical Abilities to speed, and I love speed, though it would be nice to improve his other electricity based abilities ever so slightly. Primarily his 1: Shock and his 4: Discharge.

 

7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Beyond this, I also think making Discharge an even stronger stun should probably not be the way to go, because even now the ability is a press-4-to-win button that can nuke high-level crowds of enemies in addition to halting the battlefield, or at least whoever survives (which is ultimately why DE doesn't want to buff the ability's stun). I do, however, very much sympathize with wanting to improve its utility, and in this respect I'd personally want to sacrifice the ability's existing damage and stun in order to dial the Tesla tower effect up to 11, which could also include the debuff you'd want to apply on the 1: if Discharge debuffed enemies to take bonus damage, and then also spread it to other nearby enemies via electrical shocks with each hit, Volt's 4 would have the benefit of turning all weapons fire into potentially massive AoE damage. Going further, if this helped spread Shock's chain lightning, and enhanced its damage, it would establish a clear difference between the two without having to attach that many more additional mechanics. If Volt's CC ends up being weak after this, it would be all the more reason to buff Shock's stun instead, and have it spread via Discharge.

I like this idea but i think its too similar to molecular prime? IDK haha.

[VentiGlondi]

8 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Discharge is basically just a bigger, better Shock, and using the former makes the latter redundant.

Not really. Discharge comes with a long wind-up animation that stops you dead in your tracks and leaves you vulnerable until you're done.

Shock can be cast even when you're shooting or reloading without interrupting either, allowing you to quickly stun an enemy or three provided you're not stunned yourself.

Discharge requires making sure you don't get killed while casting it. Shock allows you to make sure you don't get killed by a heavy gunner coming out of nowhere.

Now the fact that DE decided every enemy new comes with CC or status effect immunity is an issue

[Teridax68]

4 hours ago, Avadir said:

I like this idea but i think its too similar to molecular prime? IDK haha.

Molecular Prime does have an explosion component, but the explosion only chains if it kills enemies (which is unlikely to happen at higher levels, as the base damage is 800), whereas what I'm proposing would be a damage chaining effect that would basically turn any single-target damage into AoE against bunched-together enemies. You'd get chain-kills with both at lower levels for sure, but at higher levels MP's gonna be mainly picked for the enemy speed modifier, whereas ideally my proposal for Discharge would get picked for its utility.

3 hours ago, VentiGlondi said:

Not really. Discharge comes with a long wind-up animation that stops you dead in your tracks and leaves you vulnerable until you're done.

Shock can be cast even when you're shooting or reloading without interrupting either, allowing you to quickly stun an enemy or three provided you're not stunned yourself.

Discharge requires making sure you don't get killed while casting it. Shock allows you to make sure you don't get killed by a heavy gunner coming out of nowhere.

Now the fact that DE decided every enemy new comes with CC or status effect immunity is an issue

Sure, Discharge has an animation, but that's only going to be meaningful if you plonk yourself out as an open target and let yourself take a ton of enemy fire, while also not equipping the augment commonly taken to let Volt give himself massive instant overshields. It will still stun more targets, damage targets far more, and thus beat Shock in both speed and cost efficiency overall by a mile. I don't really see how much this can be argued when Shock is known for being underused, for the exact reasons I brought up, and even if one were to conceded that there are minor differences in how you'd cast either ability, their function remains the same (Shock's purpose is to stun enemies, a function also provided by Discharge, which just so happens to be better at it, and capable of doing more things on top).

Edited August 27, 2019 by Teridax68

[Avadir]

5 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Molecular Prime does have an explosion component, but the explosion only chains if it kills enemies (which is unlikely to happen at higher levels, as the base damage is 800), whereas what I'm proposing would be a damage chaining effect that would basically turn any single-target damage into AoE against bunched-together enemies. You'd get chain-kills with both at lower levels for sure, but at higher levels MP's gonna be mainly picked for the enemy speed modifier, whereas ideally my proposal for Discharge would get picked for its utility.

Yes and as far as i know, M Prime also got some damage multiplier, I'm not hating on your suggestion I actually like this idea, my only concern is its too similar to M prime to the point that ppl will not be happy about it for sure.

[CreamedSoda]

Volt Mains mad when Gauss doesn't even step into their territory. The only reason you guys even compare him with Volt is because of his 1. His radius for his abilities is like 1/3rd of Volts discharge radius and has a fairly long cast time not to mention he is more of a CC frame.

Stop being mad Volt players. Gauss is much more selfish with what he does and that is the trade off between the two even in the case that they did share territory. One benefits more people and the other does not.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Whitestrake0

[Xepthrichros]

Volt starter here and till now, I don't get why these people feel threatened by Gauss' existence. They look different enough to me and Volt still does Eidolons, ESO and many other content well. He's far from being irrelevant like Nyx or Vauban. Yet people are like "oh noes we need reworks cos new speed boi coming" Facepalm, Gauss actually looks at higher risk of being irrelevant than Volt based on how the devs say his speed has a penalty - being difficult to turn and all that. Making him relegated to open world and less for corridors (which is the whole star chart). Also depends on how hard his abilities hit. If not strong enough, then they won't be worthwhile beyond basic farming levels.  

Then of course we got some others just making every excuse to nerf Volt but spinning their nerf suggestions into reworks- thinking they have "superior design philosophies" when all they suggest is ways  to slow down combat against dumb AI at easy farming level stages - just so they can get their call of duty in space "but i need to use my gun"; please go back to the game title. This is called Warframe, not Gunframe. People should be asking for endgame modes where the challenge should be, instead of increasing tedium and boredom and slowness on easy levels, but again as always, nerf everything till it is all the same uniform player power level, and when that happens they realize some modes are too strong for the nerfed player powers, so now nerf/rescale enemy difficulties at all levels -  eventually everything reaches a state of uniformity that I will ask- why bother leveling up when such a thing becomes a reality? 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[Teridax68]

3 hours ago, Avadir said:

Yes and as far as i know, M Prime also got some damage multiplier, I'm not hating on your suggestion I actually like this idea, my only concern is its too similar to M prime to the point that ppl will not be happy about it for sure.

But Molecular Prime is by no means the only AoE damage multiplier either: Gara's Mass Vitrify also increases damage taken by all enemies within, Garuda's Seeking Talons marks enemies to take bonus bleeding damage, Saryn's Miasma applies an AoE Viral proc, and Octavia's Amp is itself a pure area-based damage boost. All of these have a similar damage-increasing component, yet are used for completely different reasons, with M Prime in particular being used for its slow or speed bonus, and feel completely different. In this respect I don't think my proposed Discharge would be an exception, as beyond the suggested damage increase (which may not even be necessary), its function would be to spread damage to multiple enemies, a function not really covered by any other ability.

[BlackVortex]

Warframe continues regurgitating already existing frame concepts into new covers

perhaps its time to stop adding new frames, the creativity is gone (considering there are so many frames, it leaves very little space for an original concept)

[(XBOX)Adaptabilty]

On 2019-08-27 at 6:21 AM, Teridax68 said:

Outside of some issues with Speed not always playing nice with teammates, my main problem with Volt has always been the overlap between Shock and Discharge: Discharge is basically just a bigger, better Shock, and using the former makes the latter redundant. In this respect, I like the suggestions here, because they offer at least some degree of differentiation by giving Shock and Discharge slightly more different functionalities, and implementing some synergy between the two. However, I still do think there is a heavy amount of overlap between the two abilities even after these changes, since Shock would still be a stun/debuff effect, whereas Discharge itself remains a massive stun/nuke.

Beyond this, I also think making Discharge an even stronger stun should probably not be the way to go, because even now the ability is a press-4-to-win button that can nuke high-level crowds of enemies in addition to halting the battlefield, or at least whoever survives (which is ultimately why DE doesn't want to buff the ability's stun). I do, however, very much sympathize with wanting to improve its utility, and in this respect I'd personally want to sacrifice the ability's existing damage and stun in order to dial the Tesla tower effect up to 11, which could also include the debuff you'd want to apply on the 1: if Discharge debuffed enemies to take bonus damage, and then also spread it to other nearby enemies via electrical shocks with each hit, Volt's 4 would have the benefit of turning all weapons fire into potentially massive AoE damage. Going further, if this helped spread Shock's chain lightning, and enhanced its damage, it would establish a clear difference between the two without having to attach that many more additional mechanics. If Volt's CC ends up being weak after this, it would be all the more reason to buff Shock's stun instead, and have it spread via Discharge.

Thanks for the feedback, this was really well thought-out I appreciate it. This makes a lot of of sense.

[(XBOX)Adaptabilty]

On 2019-08-27 at 12:46 PM, peterc3 said:

Cheap CC is bad, but just doing more unmoddable damage is better?

20 seconds is not short in a game like Warframe.

Yeah, 20 seconds might be over kill for an Ability like his, but that's why I kinda left it up to interpretation. I want a longer duration but as I mentioned the ability would be too powerful. In response to the unmoddle damage, it would be slightly better than JUST a cheap stun. 30% more damage is still 30% more damage along with a quick stun on an Ability that costs 25 or less energy is pretty reasonable. And with his sheild, and his augments, he can deal a lot of damage to monopolize on that. I'm not looking to make super substantial changes, just tweaks the frame is in a good spot rn. 

[(XBOX)Adaptabilty]

On 2019-08-27 at 2:00 PM, Avadir said:

 

 

On 2019-08-28 at 12:01 AM, Whitestrake0 said:

Volt Mains mad when Gauss doesn't even step into their territory. The only reason you guys even compare him with Volt is because of his 1. His radius for his abilities is like 1/3rd of Volts discharge radius and has a fairly long cast time not to mention he is more of a CC frame.

Stop being mad Volt players. Gauss is much more selfish with what he does and that is the trade off between the two even in the case that they did share territory. One benefits more people and the other does not.

I don't really understand either, but if this press can get volt some tweaks to make at least shock and discharge a smidge better, meh. I mean it happened with nyx when revenant was coming out. Volt and Gauss' are very different, and I myself mentioned that Gauss will not "kill" volt. 

[(XBOX)Adaptabilty]

On 2019-08-28 at 1:21 AM, Xepthrichros said:

Volt starter here and till now, I don't get why these people feel threatened by Gauss' existence. They look different enough to me and Volt still does Eidolons, ESO and many other content well. He's far from being irrelevant like Nyx or Vauban. Yet people are like "oh noes we need reworks cos new speed boi coming" Facepalm, Gauss actually looks at higher risk of being irrelevant than Volt based on how the devs say his speed has a penalty - being difficult to turn and all that. Making him relegated to open world and less for corridors (which is the whole star chart). Also depends on how hard his abilities hit. If not strong enough, then they won't be worthwhile beyond basic farming levels.  

Then of course we got some others just making every excuse to nerf Volt but spinning their nerf suggestions into reworks- thinking they have "superior design philosophies" when all they suggest is ways  to slow down combat against dumb AI at easy farming level stages - just so they can get their call of duty in space "but i need to use my gun"; please go back to the game title. This is called Warframe, not Gunframe. People should be asking for endgame modes where the challenge should be, instead of increasing tedium and boredom and slowness on easy levels, but again as always, nerf everything till it is all the same uniform player power level, and when that happens they realize some modes are too strong for the nerfed player powers, so now nerf/rescale enemy difficulties at all levels -  eventually everything reaches a state of uniformity that I will ask- why bother leveling up when such a thing becomes a reality? 

Who wants to Nerf Volt? I'm actually curious, volt will be fine, these changes are things I wanted for a while specifically since he got his discharge damage cap removed. HOWEVER, this will all blow ever, I do think that it would be cool to talk about some volt changes while he is a hot topic, especially since Gauss is coming out and he looked so cool in the trailer. I mean mag is going to gain the ability to stop enemy bullets like in the cinematic. So hey.

[(XBOX)Adaptabilty]

23 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

Warframe continues regurgitating already existing frame concepts into new covers

perhaps its time to stop adding new frames, the creativity is gone (considering there are so many frames, it leaves very little space for an original concept)

Kinda sorta, I think it's less the idea with frames and more with content. But that's a different beast. Gauss is pretty different from volt Ultimately. A frame based on kinetic energy is the absolute coolest.

[BlackVortex]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Adaptabilty said:

Kinda sorta, I think it's less the idea with frames and more with content. But that's a different beast. Gauss is pretty different from volt Ultimately. A frame based on kinetic energy is the absolute coolest.

true, but you do see the resemblances...

they are both speed characters...
and they both charge while running...
the volt is electric, the gauss electrokinetic

pretty much the same concept, but with different skills

[(XBOX)Adaptabilty]

5 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

true, but you do see the resemblances...

they are both speed characters...
and they both charge while running...
the volt is electric, the gauss electrokinetic

pretty much the same concept, but with different skills

Can't really argue