People Who Got Banned For Fitting The Profile of RMT: Is There A Way To Prove Their Innocence?

[VotumPrime]

A lot of people I know have been through this before. They buy a crap ton of plat and then they give it out to some friends who they need it for free or some Warframe Twitch streamer gives away platinum for free to their viewers but suddenly:

How do people who hold platinum giveaways or clan events or they just want to give platinum to their friends for free prove their innocence?

Since this is something that seems to happen more and more frequently, I think it's a worthy topic to discuss. As for proving their innocence, I think people who received plat from them should be able to vouch for their innocence no?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

De needs a better support team and detection system imo but I’m just an angry no life who complains about everything so what do I know

[krc473]

5 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

As for proving their innocence, I think people who received plat from them should be able to vouch for their innocence no?

No. Are you not familiar with bias at all? Someone that was buying plat off a friend is unlikely to say "yes, it was an RMT".

 

DE could have a better system, but it is hard to know. People are not going to admit that was what they were doing, so how can you prove the system is flawed?

7 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

How do people who hold platinum giveaways or clan events or they just want to give platinum to their friends for free prove their innocence?

I have given plat to friends for free before. I have never had any issues doing it. Perhaps the problem is the amount traded?

[VotumPrime]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

De needs a better support team and detection system imo but I’m just an angry no life who complains about everything so what do I know

Well I encouraged my clan member to keep trying everything he can until the bitter end but then he gave up. I can't really vouch for him or prove his innocence at all sadly but Warframe is a game that means a lot to him.

[VotumPrime]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

No. Are you not familiar with bias at all? Someone that was buying plat off a friend is unlikely to say "yes, it was an RMT".

 

DE could have a better system, but it is hard to know. People are not going to admit that was what they were doing, so how can you prove the system is flawed?

I have given plat to friends for free before. I have never had any issues doing it. Perhaps the problem is the amount traded?

Yes this is why I suspected one of his so-called friends who was bitter towards him might have reported him out of petty and the amount he gave out wasn't a lot I believe. 

I will go ask him for details.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

Hmm I could be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if when they do further investigations they get all of your chat logs... In doing that they can probably get some evidence of what happened.

 

It kind of seems a bit hard to believe that they would be giving out permanent bans on a first offense with no evidence other than an algorithmic profile.  Like ammo case isn't worth a thousand plat permabann!

 

 

[krc473]

1 minute ago, VotumPrime said:

I will go ask him for details.

Here was my situation:

• My friend had just started playing. He needed slots for things. I was buying a Prime Vault anyway, so gave him the 200 plat from it (I only wanted the cosmetics). He did give me a few items for it (mods/prime parts/etc. I don't recall).
• People knew about this, but were not worried. So no one would have reported this.
• Said friend has now purchased their own plat from DE too.

This was not flagged as a problem trade for DE. And they did get an additional paying player as a result.

[VotumPrime]

Just now, (PS4)Eluminary said:

Hmm I could be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if when they do further investigations they get all of your chat logs... In doing that they can probably get some evidence of what happened.

 

It kind of seems a bit hard to believe that they would be giving out permanent bans on a first offense with no evidence other than an algorithmic profile.  Like ammo case isn't worth a thousand plat permabann!

 

 

Yes but when handful of well known streamers are also getting banned over this I kind of have some doubt.

[VotumPrime]

2 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Here was my situation:

• My friend had just started playing. He needed slots for things. I was buying a Prime Vault anyway, so gave him the 200 plat from it (I only wanted the cosmetics). He did give me a few items for it (mods/prime parts/etc. I don't recall).
• People knew about this, but were not worried. So no one would have reported this.
• Said friend has now purchased their own plat from DE too.

This was not flagged as a problem trade for DE. And they did get an additional paying player as a result.

But you don't do this frequently. I think people who give away plat frequently like a twitch streamer or someone hosting a clan event might be more at risk.

[Carnage2K4]

5 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Here was my situation:

• My friend had just started playing. He needed slots for things. I was buying a Prime Vault anyway, so gave him the 200 plat from it (I only wanted the cosmetics). He did give me a few items for it (mods/prime parts/etc. I don't recall).
• People knew about this, but were not worried. So no one would have reported this.
• Said friend has now purchased their own plat from DE too.

This was not flagged as a problem trade for DE. And they did get an additional paying player as a result.

The OP is talking about something much more substantial, I have a friend who has given out a few 1000 plat to ppl just for helping to smash out the planet map... He's never been flagged and I would not suspect him to be. RMT transactions would be in the 10s of thousands of plat at the least.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Carnage2K4

[VotumPrime]

3 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

The OP is talking about something much more substantial, I have a friend who has given out a few 1000 plat to ppl just for helping to smash out the planet map... He's never been flagged and I would not suspect him to be. RMT transactions would be in the 10s of thousands of plat at the least.

Whoa there. I don't think my friend here is loaded like that. The most he can ever give away is probably 100 plat to each person and that's it lol.

[NekroArts]

8 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

But you don't do this frequently. I think people who give away plat frequently like a twitch streamer or someone hosting a clan event might be more at risk.

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200092259-Trading-FAQ-Safe-Trading-Tips

Quote

Can I create contests with giveaway prizes that are awarded via Trading?

Please do not do this.  While your intent may be innocent, if your contest will rely on the Warframe Trading or Gifting systems to send items or Platinum to players directly we must HIGHLY discourage this.  This is not the intent of these systems and there is little to differentiate this sort of contest from possible fraudulent or illegitimate transactions between parties. 

Contests from the Warframe Community team (Dev Streams, Primetime, etc), Fansites, and partners will use the code redemption system, and are the only sanctioned method of conducting a contest with players.  Digital Extremes does not offer support for unsanctioned giveaways or contests.

Platinum giveaway and clan events that are awarded must be strictly from within the game, real world money (RMT) comes from outside of the game.

Edited September 17, 2019 by NekroArts

[krc473]

14 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

But you don't do this frequently. I think people who give away plat frequently like a twitch streamer or someone hosting a clan event might be more at risk.

I have also done this in a clan event before. Giving away more platinum (1000 - 2000). It was a while ago so I don’t know if the system would have been the same, so I don’t know how relevant it is. Again, neither me nor anyone in my clan got in trouble. Note: in all cases items were given for the platinum. The plat amounts were small-ish.

• If someone is giving away thousands of platinum regularly I would question that. My approach would be to suspend all accounts involved until a time when it could be determined what was happening. This is probably far too much effort.

Edited September 17, 2019 by krc473

[VotumPrime]

13 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200092259-Trading-FAQ-Safe-Trading-Tips

Platinum giveaway and clan events that are awarded must be strictly from within the game, real world money (RMT) comes from outside of the game.

Can you give an example?

[NekroArts]

7 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

Can you give an example?

Legitimate platinum, prime parts/blueprints, certain special weapons, mods, arcanes - basically anything that is generated from within the game (DE's property). Real money, furniture, outside services (mow your lawn), property - anything that doesn't originate from within the game violates their rule.

Edited September 17, 2019 by NekroArts

[VotumPrime]

Just now, NekroArts said:

Legitimate platinum, prime parts/blueprints, certain special weapons, mods, arcanes - basically anything that is generated from within the game (DE's property). Real money, furniture, outside services (mow your lawn), property - anything that doesn't originate from within the game is violates their rule.

Ehh?....But how do you prove that?

[NekroArts]

Just now, VotumPrime said:

Ehh?....But how do you prove that?

Evidence. If they catch something that gives off a red flag (and is true) you bet you're in trouble, but keep hush-hush, no suspicious activity, and not leaving evidence of doing so can make your "illegal" activity fly under their radar.

[VotumPrime]

39 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Evidence. If they catch something that gives off a red flag (and is true) you bet you're in trouble, but keep hush-hush, no suspicious activity, and not leaving evidence of doing so can make your "illegal" activity fly under their radar.

Then how can they prove that it's true or false?

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

This is why I do not sell items for plat nor hand/accept large amounts of it. 

[HappyPlecostomus]

Op, have you received a plat discount login reward recently, purchased plat, AND THEN gifted these platinum to your friend?

[VotumPrime]

3 minutes ago, HappyFishxas said:

Op, have you received a plat discount login reward recently, purchased plat, AND THEN gifted these platinum to your friend?

I believe my friend has. I don't give plat away to anyone cause I'm a greedy son of a gun.

[NekroArts]

9 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

Then how can they prove that it's true or false?

Investigation, how their process work? idk. If you feel like it's unjust or you know you're innocent, make an appeal.

Quote

To start, one thing should be clear: every valid permanent ban has evidence to back it up and is reviewed by more than one person. We certainly can't share the information behind a decision publicly as it often involves more than one person, nor would we want to give away security details for any player’s account. That sounds like a cop out, but it’s true.

Again, every ban is reviewed by more than one person with evidence to back it up. Each one is now accompanied by a message outlining the reasons why you were banned. If you feel they are unjust, please make an appeal. This system is not set up to punish unlucky users, but to weed out the toxic players who make Warframe unfair for everyone.

There are cases where the unlucky (victims of the scam/fraud/illegal activity) do get the "punish" end of the stink. Attempt to appeal when you can and if it doesn't pan out in your favor (knowing that you are innocent), unfortunately, I can only say sorry.

[VotumPrime]

11 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Investigation, how their process work? idk. If you feel like it's unjust or you know you're innocent, make an appeal.

There are cases where the unlucky (victims of the scam/fraud/illegal activity) do get the "punish" end of the stink. Attempt to appeal when you can and if it doesn't pan out in your favor (knowing that you are innocent), unfortunately, I can only say sorry.

It's not me. But I see. Thanks for your help, NekoArts.

Right now I am just worried about my friend's mental state so we're keeping a close eye on the lad to make sure he doesn't do anything extreme that he will very much regret.

Edited September 18, 2019 by VotumPrime

[(PSN)death404]

39 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

But you don't do this frequently. I think people who give away plat frequently like a twitch streamer or someone hosting a clan event might be more at risk.

I give my son plat all the time, usually a couple hundred or less. Never had any issues.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I had a friend who gave out 100k plat as giveaway prizes, wasn't flagged. So I'm not sure why your mate was. And forgive me for being a little skeptical but you're on a seemingly fresh account asking this, why not use your main?