I use 40 frames just fine. But what does Gauss do?

[RX-3DR]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Penalize due to how DE built the ability.  It could easily be a flat percentage gain. Redline could charge up at the same speed regardless of duration. 

So you want to penalize people who don't build Duration then. Lets use a very simple example, 50% Fleeting Expertise.

Current version : Approx. 5/10(PC/Consoles) second of max battery to hit 100%. You get 10/5 seconds to go ham.

Your version : It takes approx. 10/20 seconds, to hit 100%, leaving you with 5 seconds of unlimited battery or is straight up impossible to max.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

On 2019-10-03 at 11:36 PM, RX-3DR said:

If the overcharge didn't scale, Redline would be penalizing you for having low duration. In its current state, low duration Redline is as functional as a high duration Redline and the trade up is a faster charge vs a more consistent overcharge duration. But as @(NSW)ToadBlue mentioned though, hitting 100% is not a requirement.

We should be allowed the ability to effectively build him to hit a consistent and long-enough 100%, as I really enjoy the buffs to his 2nd and his 3rd it gives. I've had no issues with any other frame building them based off of a single ability and/or playstyle, so why should I be penalized with Gauss?

Edited October 5, 2019 by (NSW)FlameDivinity

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

19 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

So you want to penalize people who don't build Duration then. Lets use a very simple example, 50% Fleeting Expertise.

Current version : Approx. 5/10(PC/Consoles) second of max battery to hit 100%. You get 10/5 seconds to go ham.

Your version : It takes approx. 10/20 seconds, to hit 100%, leaving you with 5 seconds of unlimited battery or is straight up impossible to max.

There is no penalizing for people who build for low duration. Do you count players building Volt for low range and and high strength for his 2nd a penalty? Do you count players building Limbo for high range and low duration a penalty? What you're saying implies that having the ability to customise a loadout is penalizing. You're literally saying that having more than one way to play a frame penalizes players. You are making no sense. If people wanted to build for Redline, they'd use high duration, just like if people wanted to build Volt for speed, they'd use high strength. It's not penalizing for Volt players who build him for speed to have less nuking power because they chose strength over range. Are you getting it?

Edited October 5, 2019 by (NSW)FlameDivinity

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

6 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

We should be allowed the ability to effectively build him to hit a consistent and long-enough 100%, as I really enjoy the buffs to his 2nd and his 3rd it gives. I've had no issues with any other frame building them based off of a single ability and/or playstyle, so why should I be penalized with Gauss?

100% doesn't buff his abilities, it just locks his battery to full so Kinetic Plating provides it's maximum damage reduction without drain and Heat Sunder doesn't expend battery.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

On 2019-10-04 at 1:42 PM, RX-3DR said:

So you want to penalize people who don't build Duration then. Lets use a very simple example, 50% Fleeting Expertise.

Current version : Approx. 5/10(PC/Consoles) second of max battery to hit 100%. You get 10/5 seconds to go ham.

Your version : It takes approx. 10/20 seconds, to hit 100%, leaving you with 5 seconds of unlimited battery or is straight up impossible to max.

What??

Umm... feelting expertise is a penalty in itself. This is a horrible example.

Build for 10 seconds to use a skill for 5 seconds... Lmao, yeah ok.

[RX-3DR]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

What??

Umm... feelting expertise is a penalty in itself. This is a horrible example.

Build for 10 seconds to use a skill for 5 seconds... Lmao, yeah ok.

That's exactly what you want where lower duration is directly worse. The problem is that you're creating a situation where Redline is extremely effective when stacking duration that it starts to performs poorly at base line in comparison. Look at it this way, if they designed it your way, they would have left it at 20 seconds to fully charge out of a 30 second duration because people would build it to 60 seconds, then DE would call it a day because people would just say that you have to exclusively build Duration to use Redline. This only hurts the people who don't build duration.

Right now, Redline has the same value at 100% Duration or 250% duration and 50% duration/150% efficiency against 100% duration/100% efficiency is the amount of times you have to recast it, much like every other buff. It still totals up to the same amount of time spent building up the battery and the same amount of time at 100% but in different time frames. There is no specific way to build Redline and you are free to build any other stat without it completely gimping one ability.

It looks like people have the whole max one ability, throw out the rest so horribly ingrained into them.

Edited October 6, 2019 by RX-3DR

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

16 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Look at it this way, if they designed it your way, they would have left it at 20 seconds to fully charge out of a 30 second duration because people would build it to 60 seconds

Look at it this way. They could make it "10 seconds" to charge at ANY duration.

They don't HAVE to develop skills a certain way.  It's a choice. 

 

[RX-3DR]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Look at it this way. They could make it "10 seconds" to charge at ANY duration.

They don't HAVE to develop skills a certain way.  It's a choice. 

Why not 5 seconds? Why not have it 100% from the start then?

[Xepthrichros]

On 2019-09-19 at 5:53 PM, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Run into enemies does nothing.  And running into wall is dumb. 

You'd think if running into a wall can generate a shockwave that damages things around it, then running DIRECTLY into the enemy ought to deal damage to that enemy too, or even cause a shockwave from the impact with the enemy...

But... shrugs...  space magic works in mysterious ways. 

 

And again, for a speedster which is about CLOSING THE GAP between the warframe and enemy, Gauss abilities don't do much to benefit melee but instead buff gunplay. Why use guns when you are running to get closer? (plus his signature weapons are explosive that risk self-damage 👏 ) Guns are for killing at distance. Running towards the enemy is almost the opposite of relying on guns. 

And he can't Mach Rush side step left and right. If he could do that, then the guns would make sense. You strafe left and right quickly while raining bullets or rockets at the enemy from a distance. But right now, the kit + signature weapons are like "lets race my missiles towards the enemies to see what kills me first, the enemy or my own self-damage" 

 

 

These days I just skip all that and use Gauss as a World on Fire approximation. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

4 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

You'd think if running into a wall can generate a shockwave that damages things around it, then running DIRECTLY into the enemy ought to deal damage to that enemy too, or even cause a shockwave from the impact with the enemy...

But... shrugs...  space magic works in mysterious ways. 

 

And again, for a speedster which is about CLOSING THE GAP between the warframe and enemy, Gauss abilities don't do much to benefit melee but instead buff gunplay. Why use guns when you are running to get closer? (plus his signature weapons are explosive that risk self-damage 👏 ) Guns are for killing at distance. Running towards the enemy is almost the opposite of relying on guns. 

And he can't Mach Rush side step left and right. If he could do that, then the guns would make sense. You strafe left and right quickly while raining bullets or rockets at the enemy from a distance. But right now, the kit + signature weapons are like "lets race my missiles towards the enemies to see what kills me first, the enemy or my own self-damage" 

 

 

These days I just skip all that and use Gauss as a World on Fire approximation. 

You're not supposed to run to the enemy, you're supposed to run through the enemy.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

19 hours ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

100% doesn't buff his abilities, it just locks his battery to full so Kinetic Plating provides it's maximum damage reduction without drain and Heat Sunder doesn't expend battery.

It also allows Thermal Sunder to instantly proc it's dual cast effects in a single cast, and maximizes the buffs he gets from Redline (i.e faster reload speed, faster attack speed, faster weapon swap speed).

[RX-3DR]

9 minutes ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

It also allows Thermal Sunder to instantly proc it's dual cast effects in a single cast, and maximizes the buffs he gets from Redline (i.e faster reload speed, faster attack speed, faster weapon swap speed).

Actually, no, literally.

The extra effects for abilities is gotten from Redline and the basic battery itself. The overcharge has no effect on them so you can be at 0% with Redline and freeze enemies with a single cast of Thermal Sunder as long as you are within the extra capacity on the battery. The buffs are actually tied to his basic battery, which means you can get the full effect as long as you are maintaining the battery bar at full, regardless of the Redline overcharge. The only two things that happens when hitting 100% is that your battery is locked at full and your battery doesn't drain out when Redline ends. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by RX-3DR

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

3 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Actually, no, literally.

The extra effects for abilities is gotten from Redline itself. The overcharge has no effect on them so you can be at 0% with Redline and freeze enemies with a single cast of Thermal Sunder as long as within the extra capacity. The buffs are actually tied to his basic battery, which means you can get the full effect as long as you are maintaining the battery bar at full, regardless of the Redline overcharge. The only two things that happens when hitting 100% is that your battery is locked at full and your battery doesn't drain out when Redline ends. 

Okay, thanks for cleairng things up. I still heavily prefer to reach and stay at 100% since I don't have to worry about managing drain.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

28 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Actually, no, literally.

 The buffs are actually tied to his basic battery, which means you can get the full effect as long as you are maintaining the battery bar at full

 

Thermal Sunder gains bonuses to its status effects when  Redline is active and above the redline battery charge (>80%😞

• The  Cold proc freezes enemies solid instantly.
• The  Heat proc deals full damage-over-time against enemies.
• The  Blast proc permanently strips away the enemy's current amount of armor based off of battery power level, up to a maximum of 100% with a full battery charge, before inflicting its damage.

You need to be over the basic battery with Redline active especially for the armor strip

8 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

Why not 5 seconds? Why not have it 100% from the start then?

Ask DE...

[BL4CKN0ISE]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Thermal Sunder gains bonuses to its status effects when  Redline is active and above the redline battery charge (>80%😞

• The  Cold proc freezes enemies solid instantly.
• The  Heat proc deals full damage-over-time against enemies.
• The  Blast proc permanently strips away the enemy's current amount of armor based off of battery power level, up to a maximum of 100% with a full battery charge, before inflicting its damage.

You need to be over the basic battery with Redline active especially for the armor strip

Ask DE...

Gauss is just kinda confusing for people to talk about because of how his abilities are explained by DE. Most people are probably saying the same thing. Just stay above redline. I believe that's what RX-3DR was saying. You just don't need the counter to be at 100%. 

You obviously need Redline, but I'm not sure why anyone would ever use Gauss without Redline active. 

 

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

43 minutes ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

 You obviously need Redline, but I'm not sure why anyone would ever use Gauss without Redline active. 

 

This is the point everyone is stressing. You need Redline.

But when building Gauss for duration , Redline suffers. Takes way longer to build up 100%. The charge should be fiat rate. Not inverse to duration 

When playing Gauss in a group,  he's likey to go the whole match without ever hitting 100% Redline ability bonus. Unless you play endless map and seclude yourself in a room. Even then, you spend most of Redline's duration running around trying to build the bonus to 100% to get the no battery drain.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

This is the point everyone is stressing. You need Redline.

But when building Gauss for duration , Redline suffers. Takes way longer to build up 100%. The charge should be fiat rate. Not inverse to duration 

When playing Gauss in a group,  he's likey to go the whole match without ever hitting 100% Redline ability bonus. Unless you play endless map and seclude yourself in a room. Even then, you spend most of Redline's duration running around trying to build the bonus to 100% to get the no battery drain.

The 100% has nothing to do with Redline's buffs. All you have to do is be above the Redline. The % is just a bonus for being above the Redline.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

1 hour ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

The 100% has nothing to do with Redline's buffs. All you have to do is be above the Redline. The % is just a bonus for being above the Redline.

Higher percent for the buff gives higher buff.  If you hit 100% buff (not the battery) your battery drained is removed. Kinetic plating DR percentage won't be reduced by getting hit. 

 

Just try it. Get the redline bonus to 100%. You'll see that the battery drain is removed.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

Just now, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Higher percent for the buff gives higher buff.  If you hit 100% buff (not the battery) your battery drained is removed. Kinetic plating DR percentage won't be reduced by getting hit. 

 

Just try it. Get the redline bonus to 100%. You'll see that the battery drain is removed.

I know how Gauss works. I'm saying that you do not need to prioritize reaching his 100% buff to benefit from Redline's buffs, you only need the battery. Yet people seem to get hung up on the % meter as if Redline doesn't function without it. It does, and people who say "I have to run around in circles to get 100% before I can do anything" sound like they're so stuck on this bonus effect that the rest of Redline doesn't exist to them.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

Just now, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

I know how Gauss works. I'm saying that you do not need to prioritize reaching his 100% buff to benefit from Redline's buffs, you only need the battery. Yet people seem to get hung up on the % meter as if Redline doesn't function without it. It does, and people who say "I have to run around in circles to get 100% before I can do anything" sound like they're so stuck on this bonus effect that the rest of Redline doesn't exist to them.

Without removing the battery drain,  Kinetic plating doesn't stay at 100%. 

Without being at 100% buff you don't get the maximum damage output from your other skills and you don't get the high side of the buffs from Redline. 

Redline "functions" but you don't get the battery synergy unless the Redline buff is at 100%.

Otherwise there are other frames like Wisp who increase fire rate, atk speed, movement speed wayyy better and more efficiently, effectively with duration and helps your team.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

18 minutes ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Without removing the battery drain,  Kinetic plating doesn't stay at 100%. 

Without being at 100% buff you don't get the maximum damage output from your other skills and you don't get the high side of the buffs from Redline. 

Redline "functions" but you don't get the battery synergy unless the Redline buff is at 100%.

Otherwise there are other frames like Wisp who increase fire rate, atk speed, movement speed wayyy better and more efficiently, effectively with duration and helps your team.

All you have to do is keep the battery up to get the buffs. 100% Redline is just a reward for accomplishing that efficiently. If you can't handle Gauss without that bonus, I don't know what to tell you other than he's simply not for you.

[RX-3DR]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Otherwise there are other frames like Wisp who increase fire rate, atk speed, movement speed wayyy better and more efficiently, effectively with duration and helps your team.

Then use those frames then. Your entire gripe with Gauss and Redline simply stems from comparing it with frames things that are designed to function differently.

You're making yourself so miserable by blinding yourself to playing Gauss in a single way that you've completely threw away the entire reason why Gauss is designed the way he is, he is meant to substitute obsessive power builds with decent gameplay performance (I say decent and not good because I stopped needing to pay attention to the Battery with the changes).

I play Gauss and I use Redline sparringly (It's almost as if you don't need the buffs to kill 5 Lancers and I'd rather save the energy for when I need to push it). When I do, I hit 100% without hiding in circles. And somehow, I have no problems keeping up with your standard spin2win Inaros in Arbitrations.  It's almost as if people have gotten too used to lazy gameplay.

Edited October 7, 2019 by RX-3DR

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

3 hours ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

All you have to do is keep the battery up to get the buffs. 100% Redline is just a reward for accomplishing that efficiently. If you can't handle Gauss without that bonus, I don't know what to tell you other than he's simply not for you.

Not for anyone. BEFORE the rework people were claiming he was fine. Lmao

3 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

Then use those frames then. Your entire gripe with Gauss and Redline simply stems from comparing it with frames things that are designed to function differently.

You're making yourself so miserable by blinding yourself to playing Gauss in a single way that you've completely threw away the entire reason why Gauss is designed the way he is, he is meant to substitute obsessive power builds with decent gameplay performance (I say decent and not good because I stopped needing to pay attention to the Battery with the changes).

Well, it's me and like all the people on this topic. You are 1 of like 4 people who are ok with him as is.

Same time, even you admit he's better with the rework they dropped for him. They made it a bit easier but If DE improves Redline gain, he'll be just fine.

No one said he needs MORE power. He needs to be able to tap into his full potential without being punished for having duration to keep his ability going. You can't even refresh Redline. At least make it like thermal sunder. Tap to refresh, hold to explode. Spamming abilities like crazy is not fun. That's all. 

[000l000]

il y a 37 minutes, (XB1)Phantom Clip a dit :

Not for anyone. BEFORE the rework people were claiming he was fine. Lmao

Well, it's me and like all the people on this topic. You are 1 of like 4 people who are ok with him as is.

Same time, even you admit he's better with the rework they dropped for him. They made it a bit easier but If DE improves Redline gain, he'll be just fine.

No one said he needs MORE power. He needs to be able to tap into his full potential without being punished for having duration to keep his ability going. You can't even refresh Redline. At least make it like thermal sunder. Tap to refresh, hold to explode. Spamming abilities like crazy is not fun. That's all. 

I don't understand why you're debating about duration when the only thing that matters is that Gauss is unable to use Redline at full potential at will - One has to wait for redline to get to 100% and can't do anything about it. Game itself is deciding when or where you can get your buff - not you - which makes no sense.

Short duration has lower buffs but you can get your buffs way earlier and so not wasting them stupidly because of ending round, A to B travel or anything. It's a win-win situation so far. Problem is also that not building Gauss with duration also impairs thermal sunder and also doesn't help reducing power cost so...

Perhaps you're just wasting your time trying to build him without some mandatory duration.

[RX-3DR]

53 minutes ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Not for anyone. BEFORE the rework people were claiming he was fine. Lmao

Well, it's me and like all the people on this topic. You are 1 of like 4 people who are ok with him as is.

Same time, even you admit he's better with the rework they dropped for him. They made it a bit easier but If DE improves Redline gain, he'll be just fine.

No one said he needs MORE power. He needs to be able to tap into his full potential without being punished for having duration to keep his ability going. You can't even refresh Redline. At least make it like thermal sunder. Tap to refresh, hold to explode. Spamming abilities like crazy is not fun. That's all. 

Because he was relatively fine before the tweaks if you weren't obsessing over having to hit 100% all the time with Redline.

You're using the usual fallacy of a false majority. There are plenty of people who will come to the forum to ask for things they want but people who are content are less likely to voice out that they are having no problems.

I never said the changes were a good thing. I think the changes are a mistake because they made it so easy that I can ignore the battery and it will still achieve 100%. It invalidates the purpose it was designed to serve which is to reward you for doing things faster or differently. DE simply jumped the gun too fast and too hard on this. I press 4, tap 1 twice and I play as per normal and before I know it, I've hit 100%. It's no more interactive than any other buff at this point to me.

I never mentioned anything about more power either. My point is that Gauss was designed with his battery to replace the need for 150% power strength for things like 90% damage reduction which is why Redline should always be a significant limiting factor and not just a showpiece on how he is "different".

Honestly, if you're spamming abilities, you need to reconsider what you're doing.

Edited October 7, 2019 by RX-3DR