Saryn's 4th ability

[Xepthrichros]

51 minutes ago, DawnFyreSon said:

Saryn does indeed need to be become less obnoxious. Its annoying to see her hogging all the kills every time.

It is safe to assume all of you are complaining about Saryn in low level content. 

This isn't a PVP game. No need to get competitive. Maybe as a new player, you think shooting these brain dead paper thin low level  enemies as something "fun". After you do this for the 500th hour or longer, it's not. There's no need to slowly do something, when it can be done fast.

Also, team mate's kills still gives you XP. Don't act like your team mate is preventing you from leveling. 

14 hours ago, (XB1)NeoCortex Prime said:

Try to rank weapons is impossible with a saryn on your side.

Please educate yourself. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Affinity

 

I remember a time where players asked for Saryns etc. to carry them to Hydron to help them farm affinity. These days we have entitled fussy people that complain about "muh interactivity". Your interactivity will be your boredom once you shoot these walking planks of wood (especially for low to mid level content) for the millionth time and realize they do not and never will pose a threat to you and you are wasting time shooting them slowly one by one. 

Oh wait, I actually still see people who ask for nuking and farming  help at Hydron. It's not a generation thing. Just a "you" thing, and a few others.

14 hours ago, (XB1)NeoCortex Prime said:

So i Wonder why Saryn's ultimate is beyond some next level damage output, while other warframe have to actually work and play for it.

Saryn's power is worked for. She is obtained from the boss at Sedna, which is at the end of the Star Chart. Requires many hours of overall gameplay time to reach that point and get her. This is not just looter shooter, it is also an action RPG, in case you missed the memo. Look at your mods and all the leveling you need to put into them. That's a RPG mechanic. Based on the way you talk about things, you obviously missed this memo. Different equipment has different power levels. Saryn is obtained later in the game, and designed to kill mid to high level fodder enemies fast, to sustain high efficiency in a specific content known as Elite Sanctuary Onslaught. Of course, if equipment is meant to do well at high levels, then naturally, they will completely dumpster low level fodder, which is where you are at now. If they nerf Saryn to be crap at low level fodder, then she will be useless at high levels, and she will utterly useless overall - and rival Ember in terms of uselessness. Right now, there is content that Saryn will not work so well in, which you probably have not yet progressed enough to attempt yet - such as Disruptions, Eidolon Hunts, Orb Mother fights and Arbitrations. These modes contain certain mechanics like ability immunity or resistance. and various bosses or mini-bosses, and the way you beat them requires things that Saryn cannot do efficiently. You can fulfill your desire for interactivity there. These enemies also do stand a chance at actually killing you pretty well, and you can actually fail your mission, so it is indeed less boring, and can be challenging, if that is what you want.

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[(PSN)mindwarper11]

33 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

If someone brings a nuke Frame to a low-level (say, Lith Fissure) Exterminate, yeah that's a bit questionable maybe.

But, for better or worse, a lot of content in this game nowadays is about killing lots of doods,
and if one of my Squad mates bring a Frame that can siginificantly contribute to that,
making the mission easier / progress faster, that's quite alright by me, better than one of those dang leeches that don't kill anything.

If you're power leveling, yes. If you need affinity farming, yes. But that's it. It's not playing the game if you sit there twiddling your thumbs. I'd prefer leeches any day, as long as they stay near the group, so drops/nob spawns aren't all over the place. If you have a sryb in your group, and they play her for her abilities, then you are the leech.

To me a saryn is every bit as bad as someone with an ARCA plasmor or catchmoon constantly shooting your face. At least leeches effect mob spawns/positions, and potentially affect drops.

 

"Saryn's power is worked for. She is obtained from the boss at Sedna"

and I feel like addressing this too. That's not that hard to get to, nor is the boss at Sedna. Fun boss mechanic, but the arena missions to get to her, and the fight itself are very chill, you run around in circles. Unlike say ambulas, whom you have to hope spawns in order to get to the fight, which is a sit around and wait fight, or at least has you bored of the mechanics by the end.

 

its really not that many hours of gameplay to get to and through the story and relays to get to Sedna, the hours are in everything you skipped to get there.

 

", Eidolon Hunts, Orb Mother fights " you mean the hunts people only request an abysmally small number of frames in to begin with? That's a very niche group. The other two are just flat out incorrect. Maybe high level disruption runs after you've already spent alot of time there, which I don't do anyway, because eventually your group wants to leave, and I prefer team play, not one woman carry, so I stick with a fun group. And arbitrations maybe give some problems because of drones, but the drones do not spawn with or even stay with every group, so it's still easy to use her there...and still a niche example. General gameplay sees her overpowering in both low and high levels of content with very little player skill needed. She's not the only frame with this issue, but regardless if you like her, she is the topic at hand and she does make the game fairly boring for her team by being overpowered.

Edited September 24, 2019 by (PS4)mindwarper11

[DawnFyreSon]

Also getting leeches at hydron is better than getting a saryn when you need to level a frame.

Thats because your kills split affinity 50/50 with warframe/weapon, while kills by teammates split affinity 25/75 warframe/weapons, so it takes twice as long to level a new frame even if you use your best weapon.

Moreover, there is some competitiveness in this game, why do you think the top number gets to be orange? Its annoying when you are about to kill an enemy pack and suddenly they drop dead because a saryn wants to flex.

And no i am not only talking about low level content, I am also talking about eso where saryn is queen.

[Pizzarugi]

58 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

If someone brings a nuke Frame to a low-level (say, Lith Fissure) Exterminate, yeah that's a bit questionable maybe.

But, for better or worse, a lot of content in this game nowadays is about killing lots of doods,
and if one of my Squad mates bring a Frame that can siginificantly contribute to that,
making the mission easier / progress faster, that's quite alright by me, better than one of those dang leeches that don't kill anything.

That's a problem right there, isn't it? If you only need one person to kill everything, then there's no reason to do anything, so you might as well leech.

Don't get me wrong, I hate leeches, but Saryn is one of many factors that encourage this behavior.

[(NSW)Badger]

See, I've been testing this against level 110 enemies in the simulacrum. I have a 190 range and 200 (with Growing Power activated) power strength. Against corrupted heavy gunners it takes a long time to kill them outright, and Miasma doesn't nuke them. In an early mission with lower enemy levels Saryn is truly OP. But around 100 she starts to fall off hard, having the player rely on weapons/statuses/cc. 

TLDR Saryn is indeed OP in earlier levels, but she does not pack quite as hard of a punch once the enemies get higher in level. 

It's just too bad that truly difficult enemies only appear long past the average player's exit, and other than for your own enjoyment there really is no reason to stay that long. The problem isn't from Saryn, it's from not having hard enough content/enemies. 

Also, she's not very good in Open Worlds. 

[Loza03]

Her 4th isn't honestly all that special on its own. It just magnifies the damage on her spores both in terms of dealing viral alongside the spores innate ability to strip armour. (honestly, she could lose all her DPS and still be reasonably useful just due to that, the EHP reduction that combo gives is extreme), effectively leading into big chain reactions that wipe out everything you see.

Whilst her spores are strong, they need work to maintain properly - proper cultivation, at least outside of ESO where fertile soil (to continue to metaphor) is throwing itself at you at all times like it wants to get infected. Her 4... not so much. It's a one-and-done, and very very effective within that. It lets a frame that's otherwise pretty well-designed for active play stop engaging. Even spores stop being effective once they start hitting so hard they kill enemies before you can reach the victim to spread them, which is actually a pretty smart limiting factor. Miasma, however, allows for very fast spread which can mitigate this a lot more.

IMO, I feel like a good solution would be to make it a small over time AoE centred on her - similar to WoF, but much smaller, melee-ish range. Basically serving as a means to extend spreading spores and as a means to support active engagement with enemies instead of hanging back. Also, a Miasma hanging around her fits the name better.

[Cibyllae]

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

What she needs is LoS restrictions on her 1 and 4.

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[Cibyllae]

2 hours ago, DawnFyreSon said:

Saryn does indeed need to be become less obnoxious. Its annoying to see her hogging all the kills every time.

What every argument against saryn boils down to.

Remember folks, we're at this point with Saryn because people complained. What makes you think your complaints about her are going to work the third time on this "lets-change-saryn" merry go'round.

[(PSN)mindwarper11]

20 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

What every argument against saryn boils down to.

Remember folks, we're at this point with Saryn because people complained. What makes you think your complaints about her are going to work the third time on this "lets-change-saryn" merry go'round.

In a way, I'm apt to agree. We've complained about scaling and balancing for years, but we get needless Vauban and Ember nerfs. I don't think needing everything strong is the only way to go... I just think there needs to be some form of balance, instead of some frames/weapons being useful, some being ridiculous*, and some being bad jokes.

DE just refuses to really go over what they have, instead of releasing new things. We severely need balance before tau system release, because as it stands, based on what we have, the story may be engaging like say harrow or sacrifice, but it also won't be challenging or engaging in gameplay form more than what we already have. Or hell due to lack of DE ability to scale, it will be too challenging, at least to people who get there after those of us who have been min/maxing what we have, though I think if it's too challenging, it might be more because of a sudden heavy focus on umbral whatnots more than anything.

 

 

 

Z(just spent some time with rage, decaying dragon key, wisp, and lolling with her 4 in ani for a bit...I've played wisp in hour plus runs, so I know her 4 is absurd, but I've never solely focused on just spinning in a circle with it... I trolled myself so hard today). 

[Cibyllae]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)mindwarper11 said:

I just think there needs to be some form of balance, instead of some frames/weapons being useful, some being ridiculous*, and some being bad jokes.

I completely agree, I've thought about this issue enough to come to the conclusion that, because we are dealing with numbers, our two choices are either that there is no meta, everything is useful. Or there is a meta, and only a portion is useful.  Right now the first thing that needs to happen is standardization of all rewards across game types coupled with an increase of difficulty to those game types which are receiving new rewards. 

 

EDIT: Or, in other words, a frame is only a bad joke when the rewards for the content that frame is good at are bad jokes.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Cibyllae

[Hellmaker2004]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)mindwarper11 said:

I've played wisp in hour plus runs, so I know her 4 is absurd

Honestly if you have played wisp for hours you would know it is not Sol gate by itself that is absurd.
You should use Breach Surge, with a lot of power strength and why would you not have that on Wisp, anyway with a lot of power strength the amount of damage you deal very easily reaches into overflow.

[(PSN)mindwarper11]

Just now, Hellmaker2004 said:

Honestly if you have played wisp for hours you would know it is not Sol gate by itself that is absurd.
You should use Breach Surge, with a lot of power strength and why would you not have that on Wisp, anyway with a lot of power strength the amount of damage you deal very easily reaches into overflow.

No you're right, I didn't say, or intend to say I have alot of hours, just alot of hour runs, and I've never used Sol gate as intensely as I just did, usually just to remove a group of enemies quickly or take out an enemy with high dr that nobody has good damage against, since the already high dmg of Sol gate may as well be considered ignor IMG dmg resistance outright until well after lv 100 enemies hit the field. I was just seeing how long I could keep her in her 4 with rage going and the decay key setting my shields to 54, since apparently she can still use rage with her Sol gate active lol

 

I also apologize for potentially changing the topic, is not my intention, just using an example. I could use any number of wonky things that either deal absurd amounts of damage, or have ridiculous effects (that wisp health Regen though...full party rejuvenation effects and then some from an infinite ability whose only drawbacks are it has to be placed and touched), or no real effect in comparison to anything that can do the same thing.

Ie, DE needs to balance...badly, regardless of favorite frames and whatnot (thank you de for making valkyr insta swap between claws and guns to get that rage mod energy boost for infinite claws. Don't change that >_>

..who needs energy/health operators/gear with rage lol.)

[(PSN)mindwarper11]

17 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

or, in other words, a frame is only a bad joke when the rewards for the content that frame is good at are bad jokes.

Or if their most useful abilities have better versions in other frames, which is becoming a common gag imo, let's make something that is all 4 of these frames but better! Or at least similar to 2 or 3 other frames but better.

 

 

Hell for example I'm still confused why they bothered with zephyr or Vauban primes if they weren't going to make them more competitive with other frames.

[Cibyllae]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)mindwarper11 said:

Or if their most useful abilities have better versions in other frames, which is becoming a common gag imo, let's make something that is all 4 of these frames but better! Or at least similar to 2 or 3 other frames but better.

I think that has more to do with how many times can you remake a damage buff. It always boils down to what gives you more damage output, whether its rhino, banshee, octavia, even some of the elemental frames with their augments.

[(PSN)mindwarper11]

13 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

I think that has more to do with how many times can you remake a damage buff. It always boils down to what gives you more damage output, whether its rhino, banshee, octavia, even some of the elemental frames with their augments.

Well I mean how effective a buff from one frame can be should be based on the frames overall effectiveness and compared to what other frames can use the same ability. Single target buffs should be better than aoe buffs, and pure buff roles should buff better than multi roles. Most frames fill at least 2 roles, ie rhino can lockdown with 4 (as someone who uses rhino alot, I feel most of the time a rhino 4 is more to the detriment of allies than benefit most of the time), he can tank for himself with his 2, and his 3 buffs damage for allies around him, all of it has a cast animation, all but 4 are none intrusive to allies...unless you stand in front of your friend who brought an ogris...but somehow only when he tries to fire...

Chroma conversely does everything there pretty much better without less effort put in the frame. 

 

Saryn's has decent base armor, high damage output regardless of walls, molt, more effective than people seem to give it credit for, is far better than say mag who also has high damagw at high range, but her ability to shield herself and allies still falls short (partially because it blocks rage mod players) and she has nearly no base armor while being negligibly faster than saryn...and all 4 of saryn's abilities are useful, mag has one situationally useful ability that can get in the way.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

18 hours ago, (XB1)NeoCortex Prime said:

 Try to rank weapons is impossible with a saryn on your side.

The number 1 reason to have saryn on your side is to power level weapons and frames. You do know that you get wayyy more affinity by literally having Saryn right by your side in affinity range doing ALL the killing? May DE bless every saryn that power leveled me on hydron. I'm talking 1 frame, 3 weapons,  archgun, amp, companion all rank 30 from 0 on one run in 20min using booster. Just equip weapon in hand and stand next to saryn. While I had under 60 kills...

I feel you. Im not complaining tho.

Edited September 24, 2019 by (XB1)Phantom Clip

[SomeonePrime]

There are better melee frames out there, but Saryn+Sweeper along with condition overload is pretty op. Throw in contagion cloud for a little extra fun.

[Xepthrichros]

8 hours ago, (PS4)mindwarper11 said:

No you're right, I didn't say, or intend to say I have alot of hours, just alot of hour runs, and I've never used Sol gate as intensely as I just did, usually just to remove a group of enemies quickly or take out an enemy with high dr that nobody has good damage against, since the already high dmg of Sol gate may as well be considered ignor IMG dmg resistance outright until well after lv 100 enemies hit the field. I was just seeing how long I could keep her in her 4 with rage going and the decay key setting my shields to 54, since apparently she can still use rage with her Sol gate active lol

 

I also apologize for potentially changing the topic, is not my intention, just using an example. I could use any number of wonky things that either deal absurd amounts of damage, or have ridiculous effects (that wisp health Regen though...full party rejuvenation effects and then some from an infinite ability whose only drawbacks are it has to be placed and touched), or no real effect in comparison to anything that can do the same thing.

Ie, DE needs to balance...badly, regardless of favorite frames and whatnot (thank you de for making valkyr insta swap between claws and guns to get that rage mod energy boost for infinite claws. Don't change that >_>

..who needs energy/health operators/gear with rage lol.)

Lol the valkyr part. Typical "pls nerf everyone else except me!" mindset. Utterly self-serving.

Again, you keep complaining about abilities. How about you go play modes where enemies are resistant and immune to abilities and enjoy your day, instead of crying? You can already find what you want, but you don't want to go do it.

 

Or are you that even weirder group that doesn't want challenge and also don't want to win fast, but wants to kill brain dead, absolutely zero threat enemies slowly? Are you the kind of person that actually thinks its fun to shoot almost stationary targets at a shooting gallery in a virtual game where you can't even feel any physical recoil or hear the oomph of a shot?

 

And if everything is nerfed, I can flip it around and ask you, who needs to farm new weapons and warframes if the so-called new stuff offer absolutely zero improvements to my gameplay efficiency or power? All of them will end up becoming reskins of one another, fashionframe endgame becomes even more of a reality than it is right now. And adding cosmetics only to a game with RPG leveling mechanics is a bad idea, because everyone who's in it for the RPG mechanics will not be interested in skins, or lame attempt at "side-grades", but rather how to improve their stats further. It is alienating part of the audience of this game. Heck, this is already a problem now. Wisp, Gauss, etc. many of the new frames are absolutely not worth using in terms of power, just lame side-grades or even inferior versions of other warframes that exist in the game. People that care about them are more into fashion and appearance, and again, that's not for everyone. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[Cibyllae]

11 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

 

chill dog, this guy is trying to have a conversation with you and you're coming at him so hard settle down

[000l000]

Le 24/09/2019 à 20:29, (NSW)Badger a dit :

See, I've been testing this against level 110 enemies in the simulacrum. I have a 190 range and 200 (with Growing Power activated) power strength. Against corrupted heavy gunners it takes a long time to kill them outright, and Miasma doesn't nuke them. In an early mission with lower enemy levels Saryn is truly OP. But around 100 she starts to fall off hard, having the player rely on weapons/statuses/cc. 

TLDR Saryn is indeed OP in earlier levels, but she does not pack quite as hard of a punch once the enemies get higher in level. 

It's just too bad that truly difficult enemies only appear long past the average player's exit, and other than for your own enjoyment there really is no reason to stay that long. The problem isn't from Saryn, it's from not having hard enough content/enemies. 

Also, she's not very good in Open Worlds. 

Any Equinox, Revenant or Mesa can impair her whole miasma mechanics by killing all hosts. Saryn is no better at "nuking" at low levels than pretty much half of other frames, what makes her really powerful is higher amount of spores. And as you said, it takes some time. I've been cleaning maps with a Mag and no one was whining about that here, but Saryn is quite popular and kiddos like to spam ultimates, 2019 is so braindead gameplay.

Saryn only issue is that some people are playing the game as if it was a job or anything, looking for efficiency more than fun, especially other players fun. It's quite a guy thing since lots of guys are obsessed with performance for some reasons but tbh everytime someone is complaining about Saryn i can only think "hey, Saryn doesn't suck, players suck".

Edited September 25, 2019 by 000l000

[DawnFyreSon]

1. Equinox takes time to charge her maim, and MOST importantly cannot shred armor. Hence outside of a 3x corrossive squad shes useless.

2. Revenant and Mesa require LoS like almost all frames

Saryn IS an outlier no matter how much you want to deny it.

[Miyabi-sama]

This thread is so full of toxins no Saryn can handle such amount.

I got used to inflict more than half of team's damage per mission. Playing Trinity. Without your cool Ignises and stuff.

Guess all those teammates were typing on the forum about how they hate playing this game.

My eyes hurt reading this.

[DawnFyreSon]

6 hours ago, Miyabi-sama said:

I got used to inflict more than half of team's damage per mission. Playing Trinity.

What is this even supposed to mean? That because you can take a frame and try to get top damage in a squad of people that dont really care all frames are equally good at killing?

Its like saying that because you can go into a pub and get first to extraction with atlas, then atlas is a top tier speedframe.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by DawnFyreSon

[Miyabi-sama]

2 часа назад, DawnFyreSon сказал:

What is this even supposed to mean?

That is supposed to mean if you care about your kill amount on a mission, you'll find a way to get them regardless of your team composition. If you're not busy writing rageposts in forums of course.

[(XBOX)NeoCortex Prime]

👽😱🤒🤕