Why do people keep going on about reworks for <insert warframe> ?

[DeMonkey]

11 hours ago, NigglesAU said:

Wasnt there a supposed to be a Hydroid one???

The person asking why others ask about frame reworks, is asking about a frame rework?

[(PSN)Silverback73]

11 hours ago, NigglesAU said:

Is this just a trendy thing to do?

Or is there a genuine need for certain frames?

Wasnt there a supposed to be a Hydroid one???

 

Because Warframe kits built for 2013 Warframe don’t work the same in soon-to-be 2020 Warframe...some have actually become more powerful/relevant, some less powerful, some obselete as new frames emerge, and some simply AREN’T as fun as they once were.

This ^ is likely an in-depth discussion for another thread that DE might be interested in.

And finally let’s clarify a bit on these terms being thrown about “loosely-Goosey”:

FULL REWORKS are RARE.  What usually happens is termed a “revisit” or “tweak” where an existing kit is modified.

The danger with reworks is they remove what caused players to fall in love with said frame. (Entire powers are replaced), but if DE is actually investing in a full rework, it likely really is needed.

“Revisits” are more common and seem to be more precarious.

It seems that they have a 50/50 shot of working.  If they don’t address a big-picture need, fans of the frame are further disappointed  (why do people think pumping a single, slow mind-controlled enemy with bullets to make it stronger helps NYX in 2019 Warframe?), or a full rework ensues (The Ember rework after a failed revisit).

Fin.

 

[SilverRook]

because things like Saryn Spores exist.... 

now the other frames need to feel relevant instead of just changing saryn

[Sintag]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

Well I mean, he is Loki after all. Being unseen is his schtick.

Relevant: I still use Loki here and there.  His utility is always loved.  Switch to set foes to pathfind to the objective, Disarm so nobody's getting shot it, Invis that is just incredibly useful on it's own, and a Decoy which...

Well, Decoy's the odd one out, but you can't win 'em all.

[SPplayer76]

You see rework talk pop up when frames get changed for just about any reason you can think of. When someone gets changed, the perception is that suddenly this window for change is open so you gotta get your ideas out there. The posts range from, "buff my main they suck" all the way to well thought out feedback. I think most of it comes from people that don't know what their talking about and think they do, but it all comes from good intentions. I've already seen people claiming that gauss needs a rework and is useless.

[844448]

12 hours ago, Aldain said:

frames that could use either a complete overhaul (Nyx)

No, she's on a fine position as a mind control warframe and a nice support with her skills from CC and defense stripping for burst damage increase. She doesn't need a rework

[Oreades]

Quite simply everyone want's the frame they like to get some TLC.  

That doesn't mean you have to enjoy playing it fully in it's current form but you like the overall concept or maybe one specific aspect that you would love to see expanded upon. Maybe they just like the concept but the execution is just not where it needs to be to be even remotely competative, who knows everyone has their own reasons but they all boil down to the same general "I really like this, but...." 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

12 minutes ago, 844448 said:

No, she's on a fine position as a mind control warframe and a nice support with her skills from CC and defense stripping for burst damage increase. She doesn't need a rework

Yes she absolutely does.  She was in my top 3 years ago, but Warframe has changed.  She is an antiquated frame with a deadening, static play experience.

Her CC (Chaos) is unreliable due to enemy AI, and the only real benefit in the rework was the armor stripping, which is also a slow, selective cast animation from a previously rather inept power.

Pumping a single, mind-controlled enemy with lead AFTER casting Mind-Control on it to “make it stronger” while entire mobs spawn on your squad doesn’t really gel with modern Warframe.  It’s borderline ludicrous to call it a buff.

Absorb LITERALLY LOCKS YOU IN PLACE IN ISOLATION when movement, weapon use, squad synergy and fluid progression have become the premium in modern Warframe.

Changing absorb’s damage type doesn’t make this ok.

Augments shouldn’t be needed just to make her a viable frame that players can use in combat like other frames. Roll them into her kit just to get things going.

She’s hamstrung.  Look at her usage numbers, even with the new top-3 deluxe Skin Bundle.

Most only use her for an endurance play style that is so far removed from mainstream play that it just proves how badly in need of further changes/improvement her kit still is.

 

[SPplayer76]

7 minutes ago, Crasharr said:

Real reason!?

Most die-hard white-knight players are on the spectrum...

Warframe comes closest to a reality as they can bare, hence the huge investmenta in time and emotion.

What a take.

citation needed.

[Diavoros]

Several frames had always had some issues in them, useless passives, useless abilities and whether they came out on release that way or got changed along the way, they still need a rework. A few cases would be:
Chroma: His first ability spectral scream is well, weak with a very limited range and no actual use whatsoever past the leveling stage (good luck killing anything with it) then comes Effigy that while can help for CC with cold element, it is still weak, takes 50% of Chroma's armor, has horrible energy drain/second and range cannot be increased with range mods.
Inaros: His Undying passive is pretty much useless as doesn't scale with enemy level giving it only use at lower levels, levels at which Inaros shouldn't die, at all. Devour doesn't scale either so have fun trying to consume a high level enemy for several minutes for creating a weak minion and getting some health, Sandstorm it's another joke, ridiculous energy usage per second, abysmally low damage, poor scaling.
Loki: Decoy should be based on duration, not have hp of its own as it is instantly deleted on mid to high level, Invisibility should be able to be recasted while active, as Loki's squishiness makes him highly vulnerable once the ability runs out
Mesa: Ballistic battery is plain useless, should be changed to a new ability.
Nyx: Pretty much her only useful ability is Chaos, yet CC abilities in the meta aren't optimal, Mind control can be fun but relies on enemy AI to make the controlled target useful...Psychic bolt can strip some armor but limited number of targets at once + requiring to build for ability str, and her ultimate...horribly low range to make it worth the bother of gathering damage to unleash.

And that's just some of them, while Wukong, Ember and Vauban were a known complaint for reworks, there are more frames that have been requested to have a look at their kit and performance.

[844448]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Yes she absolutely does.  She was in my top 3 years ago, but Warframe has changed.  She is an antiquated frame with a deadening, static play experience.

Her CC (Chaos) is unreliable due to enemy AI, and the only real benefit in the rework was the armor stripping, which is also a slow, selective cast animation from a previously rather inept power.

Pumping a single, mind-controlled enemy with lead AFTER casting Mind-Control on it to “make it stronger” while entire mobs spawn on your squad doesn’t really gel with modern Warframe.  It’s borderline ludicrous to call it a buff.

Absorb LITERALLY LOCKS YOU IN PLACE IN ISOLATION when movement, weapon use, squad synergy and fluid progression have become the premium in modern Warframe.

Changing absorb’s damage type doesn’t make this ok.

Augments shouldn’t be needed just to make her a viable frame that players can use in combat like other frames. Roll them into her kit just to get things going.

She’s hamstrung.  Look at her usage numbers, even with the new top-3 deluxe Skin Bundle.

Most only use her for an endurance play style that is so far removed from mainstream play that it just proves how badly in need of further changes/improvement her kit still is.

 

She's my new main now other than Nezha and her play style is active, constant caster that uses all of her abilities.

You cast chaos early to reduce the chance of getting shot.

Then you strip some enemies' defenses using bolts to make them die faster.

Any enemy that can be a tough distraction? Mind control and let that enemy take the front line while you shoot and control the battlefield from rear line.

Surrounded? Cast absorb, let it get some damage and deactivate to release a shockwave that knocks down or launch enemies away.

She's not a front line warframe, she's a support with ability to make enemies fight each other and I love her already.

[faizdikra]

To make sure there are not "only one" frame to be used in four squad member and in a spesific mission. Because AFAIK, DE wants a variety frame to be used in a mission.

I will give an example, you know bounty? want a bounty bonus? do it faster! Because mostly the bonus required us to finish all the task quickly. So all i can see is Mesa when i do bounty (im not lying, i always use Mesa in the bounty mission, because all his skill is designed to the bounty mission, and almost all mission i think), and it's the safe frame to be used when no one join us in a pub bounty.

When i use Mesa in bounty, another Mesa joined, and another Mesa joined again, until the fourth Mesa joined. When it does happened, I just said "wow, we are like a twin mate" 😲.

Edited October 14, 2019 by faizdikra

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Because some frames suck and people think a rework will make them better.  In a game based on math like this one though, there will always be some frame and weapon that are the worst for a given scenario.  

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, 844448 said:

She's my new main now other than Nezha and her play style is active, constant caster that uses all of her abilities.

You cast chaos early to reduce the chance of getting shot.

Then you strip some enemies' defenses using bolts to make them die faster.

Any enemy that can be a tough distraction? Mind control and let that enemy take the front line while you shoot and control the battlefield from rear line.

Surrounded? Cast absorb, let it get some damage and deactivate to release a shockwave that knocks down or launch enemies away.

She's not a front line warframe, she's a support with ability to make enemies fight each other and I love her already.

I know what she is.  She is what she was 4 years ago when I played her in my top 3...now with armor stripping added that only affects a few enemies at a time and some augment mods.

You do realize I WANT NYX to be relevant and fun and effective and live up to her deadly reputation, right?

I’m not telling you how to play Warframe, but until further changes are made, repeatedly fast-casting Chaos for the “headache animation” to ensure all enemies won’t attack you beyond lvl 40 and using absorb to save “downed” squadmates is part of antiquity.

[mrrobotto67]

Well, as times moves on, a certain skill set (or a set up) isn't as efficient as it used to be. For example, Vauban used to be a GOD on defense missions, specially on ODD, but then his abilities became irrelevant, other warframes just killed a bunch of enemies by pressing a button and that was a more efficient solution. Other one, (but more than a skill set is a set up) was the Slow Nova set-up that, back in the day, people loved slow Novas for defense missions, but because now we want to finish missions faster we want a fast Nova so enemies arrive faster to the target, so we can kill them faster and do more waves in lesser time because efficiency.

Is just how times are right now, going on a constant rush for "reasons".