Expectations for public matchmaking

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Just now, JackHargreav said:

Hey, someone gets it. 

It's nice, warm and salty.... 

Anyways just to be more on topic, ppl are just A******s usually. Best thing is to put them on ignore list. It sucks but no one can change this.

I personally don't bother with public matches unless I absolutely need other ppl to help me.

I run pubs more often then not unless Im trying to do something really specific like farm a mod or tricaps or something like that. I remember A while back I got mad at this harrow for not playing how a "harrow was supposed to play" and told him off. You know what he said? "If you don't like how I'm playing don't go publics" and after my salt levels went down he was right. Me getting upset about how someone who I don't know and Likley to not see a in. Is crazy. I can't control or expect someone to play how I want them to If I don't know them

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

6 hours ago, Softballbryan said:

It’s about playing with others...

don’t be too late to get to elevators

do help with the missions in open worlds

do communicate in chat about your desires in the mission 

do help revive players

have fun watching what others are doing around you while in mission and join in on the fun

be serious if those around you are as well

 

play solo if you get chapped by being a cooperative public player. Easy in my mind. I go into each pub with an open mind while still working actively toward the goal set for the mission. 

If I don't feel like doing any during a mission I'm sorry but I don't have to. While it's a kind thing to do you can't expect someone to follow this. 

I don't wait on elevators nor expect someone to do the same for me in pubs as we are trying to clear a mission. If I don't wait for you it's not the end of the world 

If you get there before me by all means go up or wait it dosent matter 

I don't have to talk to people I don't know nor generally want to most of the time in game. If I do feel like it I do but expecting someone to use gamechat in this day and age is crazy.

 

I'm going into an open world to farm 9/10 if I help you might be close to where I'm fishing or mining and I want yer to get out my way but I don't have to help you. If you queued up a mission I expect you have the capability to do it without me esp in open worlds.telling the guy all the way across the map "get over here and help me do my mission" isn't going to make him move  and I don't expect someone I don't know to drop what they are doing or want to do for me. It'll be nice and I'd appreciate it and wouldn't mind helping in return BUT expecting it of someone just isn't realistic.

 

Again. You can't expect someone to talk to people they don't know so easily. Yes it's mainly a co-op game but it's also deemed efficient to squad up beforehand with like minded individuals if you want communication in games like this. Do you expect that random genji in your over watch comp to carry every single time? No I don't know him or his skill level. I'm just going to assume he's a regular genji and if he carries he carries if he dosent I teabag his body 😄. 

I have no need to be serious in warframe as well. No need to strain myself when all of my frames can pee on enemies and make them go away.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

7 hours ago, Aldain said:

Anyone who puts expectations on random people in a video game matchmaking lobby is setting themselves up for disappointment.

Expecting others to adhere to your ideal visions are 90% of the reason why everyone is yelling at each other at all times these days.

Very few people can accept that there are different ideals in the world, so usually to enforce their own ideals they fall back on things like justice, righteousness, societal standards and virtue being reasons as to why they are correct, all the while acting as the very opposite of what they preach.

The only way to do right by others is to admit that imperfection exists and adapt as much as possible without compromising your own beliefs. 

I am not saying to condone obvious malice, but differences in personal vision in something as petty as a video game are not something to demand virtue and project standards on.

Ahhh common sense and logic 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

6 hours ago, 844448 said:

Because apparently some people just think everyone has to be as "competent" as them, even when they don't know what they're doing before someone told them for 177013th time or see how things don't go as they wish.

Well, that's just how people is, you can't expect people in public will be understanding, kind, and want to hear either so no need to sweat it, that's just how things are

Whaaaaaaaattttttme and you agreeing on something 

[JackHargreav]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I run pubs more often then not unless Im trying to do something really specific like farm a mod or tricaps or something like that. I remember A while back I got mad at this harrow for not playing how a "harrow was supposed to play" and told him off. You know what he said? "If you don't like how I'm playing don't go publics" and after my salt levels went down he was right. Me getting upset about how someone who I don't know and Likley to not see a in. Is crazy. I can't control or expect someone to play how I want them to If I don't know them

Same I only run interception in public and sometimes requiem missions.

Even if I run into, say a Limbo who doesn't seem to know what he's doing, I'm like whatever. It's not really worth my time to get upset about teammates. It's a game after all. There aren't many stakes really. And same goes to ppl who whine about me playing "wrong".

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

4 hours ago, .Unreality said:

Stabbing your Lich is the most efficient method 90% of the time.

Think about it this way, let's assume you absolutely refuse to stab your Lich until you know all 3 requiems. You still don't know the order so you can fail at most 2 times to get the first and at most 1 time to get the second and third. This means your Lich can be up to level 4 already. Likewise, the chance you complete all 150 required murmurs with the first set of missions is impossible and even getting 30 is not guaranteed. That means your Lich will likely level up once just from completing all available missions so a level 5 Lich is an inevitability.

Once you accept that fact, you can realize that a level 5 Lich does not reset rage anymore. By rushing your Lich to level 5, they can start spawning in every mission and it becomes easy to brute force the requiems and/or gather the rest of the murmurs. You will also have a wide choice of missions instead of being forced into whatever missions are left.

Also when your Lich spawns you can stall and let them create Thralls. You can kill but not finish the Thralls so that you can stab your Lich to reset there rage then finish off all the Thralls to enrage the Lich for the next mission.

Efficient and optimal however is dependent on what the player wants to do and is based on how they want to play. I only Stab my lich when I feel like im close a murmur or I feel like it's the right mod equipped on my Parazon. I've yet to get complaints. While "it may not be the fastest method" it's the method I enjoy and choose to do because it's how I want to play. You can't force someone to always brute force their lich and I feel like this 3 down system should only apply to the player and their own lich. As I feel like once it's in full swing people are going to be complaining that "guy kills my lich as soon as they spawn so I can't farm mumurs and kill my lich" type thing. It's 2 steps forward and one step baxk

[(XBOX)Madinogi]

3 hours ago, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

so say when there are 0 enemies around the lich an the person refuses to stab the lich, thus making 0 thralls is more efficient?
cause guess what thats what i often am seeing when people refuse to take out there lich.
im on my 10th lich an only 1 single time i didnt take out my lich when it was around was when i was like 3 or 4 more thralls from learning what requiem i use in slot 3, an i was with a friend an COMMUNICATED that im almost know the exact code to use so not gonna stab.

Then there is a lv 1 lich is only on one planet so when you run out of missions to run for the lich an yours hasnt spawned at all, guess what you need to find someone else cause you refused to stab your lich.
Once you stab the lich you get the planet its on have some missions on the planet refreshed an so can actualy not have to have someone else.

While your saying if you knew the exact code to take out your code an for the past several missions randoms refuse to take out there lich as it holds up the spawn of your own an you wont get upset?
 

regarding your last point. 

"While your saying if you knew the exact code to take out your Lich an for the past several missions randoms refuse to take out there lich as it holds up the spawn of your own an you wont get upset?"

no i dont get upset when no one wants to take down their lich. Why? because i wont be encountering them when im at the step of needing to kill my lich since ill be dragging his/her Butt into a solo lobby. you dont have to worry about fighting over other peoples lichs if your in solo play where your lich will be a guarentee spawn. and if you say "but i cant solo the lich on my own" then go and ask in recruitment chat for help to kill your lich. ive done this before for my jordas precept final fight. and i got it done because i couldnt solo it. why is it so hard for you all to do the same? 

[.Unreality]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Efficient and optimal however is dependent on what the player wants to do and is based on how they want to play. I only Stab my lich when I feel like im close a murmur or I feel like it's the right mod equipped on my Parazon. I've yet to get complaints. While "it may not be the fastest method" it's the method I enjoy and choose to do because it's how I want to play. You can't force someone to always brute force their lich and I feel like this 3 down system should only apply to the player and their own lich. As I feel like once it's in full swing people are going to be complaining that "guy kills my lich as soon as they spawn so I can't farm mumurs and kill my lich" type thing. It's 2 steps forward and one step baxk

Efficiency is not based on how a player wants to play, it is an unobjective measure of what is the most optimal. How a player wants to play is called preference.

The reason why the 3 down system was implemented was because of people who refused to stab there Lich and the other people who would flame them for it. It was a serious problem on both sides but it is so much better this way.

You want to leave your Lich alone but your random teammates want you to stab your Lich so they can get a chance to spawn theirs. Are you saying that your preference is superior to theirs so they are the ones who should suck it up and let you leave your Lich alone. No, that's silly.

There is a level of courtesy you have to give for your random teammates and a level of courtesy that they will return to you. I go solo when my Lich has a good chance of spawning because I save Thralls for reset.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

9 minutes ago, .Unreality said:

Efficiency is not based on how a player wants to play, it is an unobjective measure of what is the most optimal. How a player wants to play is called preference.

The reason why the 3 down system was implemented was because of people who refused to stab there Lich and the other people who would flame them for it. It was a serious problem on both sides but it is so much better this way.

You want to leave your Lich alone but your random teammates want you to stab your Lich so they can get a chance to spawn theirs. Are you saying that your preference is superior to theirs so they are the ones who should suck it up and let you leave your Lich alone. No, that's silly.

There is a level of courtesy you have to give for your random teammates and a level of courtesy that they will return to you. I go solo when my Lich has a good chance of spawning because I save Thralls for reset.

Efficiency is dependent on how a players prefence is however. As your way of farming or my way of playing may not be the most effective or efficient way for me to play or farm. For example. With my riven mod on my daikyu it's more efficient for me to run a volt in tricaps for the speed buff or a harrow. I prefer stealth play. So if I'm in an interception I tend to use Ivara and the stealth method. Given  warframe has no  true challenge And there are many different avenues to approach the same issue and ALL if not All MOST of them work just the same there is no true efficient way to play or grind warframe. Because a players preface ties directly into what's effective and efficient for them  

 

again  I  expect nothing from someone I don't know and they shouldn't expect something from me. You don't know them what they want or what they want to do in terms of gameplay. So expecting them to follow the guidelines the player has set and DE themselves is a very very selfish thing to expect at core. I'd like for everyone to drive like a sane person but you also have to understand that nobody is the same and has different things going on etc I don't know them snd I just can't expect everyone to be a stand up driver 

Edited November 26, 2019 by (PS4)sweatshawp

[.Unreality]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Efficiency is dependent on how a players prefence is however. As your way of farming or my way of playing may not be the most effective or efficient way for me to play or farm. For example. With my riven mod on my daikyu it's more efficient for me to run a volt in tricaps for the speed buff or a harrow. I prefer stealth play. So if I'm in an interception I tend to use Ivara and the stealth method. Given  warframe has no  true challenge And there are many different avenues to approach the same issue and ALL if not All MOST of them work just the same there is no true efficient way to play or grind warframe. Because a players preface ties directly into what's effective and efficient for them 

That's not player preference, that's player capability. You prefer stealth but that does not mean you are capable of stealth

 Even if you prefer it, if you are not capable of it but are capable of something more optimal then it is not the most efficient because it is not the most optimal.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

3 minutes ago, .Unreality said:

That's not player preference, that's player capability. You prefer stealth but that does not mean you are capable of stealth

 Even if you prefer it, if you are not capable of it but are capable of something more optimal then it is not the most efficient because it is not the most optimal.

Optimization is dependent on the players preface again in warframe. If someone preferred stealth they optimize it and make it as efficient and effective as possible. With warframe and the lack of difficulty and failure there is no true optimal or most effective way of playing which is great at base level. A stealth build that is played well can be just as effective as efficient as a 3hr plus inaros in game if you're capable of it.  

[.Unreality]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Optimization is dependent on the players preface again in warframe. If someone preferred stealth they optimize it and make it as efficient and effective as possible. With warframe and the lack of difficulty and failure there is no true optimal or most effective way of playing which is great at base level. A stealth build that is played well can be just as effective as efficient as a 3hr plus inaros in game if you're capable of it.  

It's not a question of if it can be done but instead of how quickly can it be done. Even if there are multiple methods, the most optimal method is the one that is the fasted when it itself is fully optimized.

Going back why it is better to stab your Lich, I've explained that the average Lich will reach level 5 before death. Because of that, it becomes a matter of minimizing rage loss from each reset from level ups. Leveling up a Lich that has rage from 30 Thrall kills is strictly inferior to one that has rage from 10 Thrall kills because you spend more time. Likewise killing your Lich with less total Murmurs is strictly superior so getting excess from having to increase rage after discovering all 3 Requiems and failing is strictly inferior.

[Zekkii]

The truth is that everyone has expectations, as much as you pretend to hide it, you do.  For example, most people here are upset that people have called them out for things that they don't like, because they have an expectation that people aren't allowed to do that.  

Usually when someone says they don't have any expectations it's because they don't want any expectations placed on them.  Sorry, but that's not how the world works.  At bare minimum you're expected to not be racist, homophobic, or otherwise discriminatory.  You're expected to contribute as well, hence why leeching and afking are reportable offenses.  Luckily if you're a reasonable and considerate person, you shouldn't be running into people calling you out very much. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

13 minutes ago, .Unreality said:

It's not a question of if it can be done but instead of how quickly can it be done. Even if there are multiple methods, the most optimal method is the one that is the fasted when it itself is fully optimized.

Going back why it is better to stab your Lich, I've explained that the average Lich will reach level 5 before death. Because of that, it becomes a matter of minimizing rage loss from each reset from level ups. Leveling up a Lich that has rage from 30 Thrall kills is strictly inferior to one that has rage from 10 Thrall kills because you spend more time. Likewise killing your Lich with less total Murmurs is strictly superior so getting excess from having to increase rage after discovering all 3 Requiems and failing is strictly inferior.

But there is no true fastest method for too much of anything in warframe. You can bring wukong into a spy and autopilot or you can bring a drift frame nezha and revive pretty much the same results. You can bring a nekros in a mission or bring a hydroid khora or Ivara and yield similar results.

You can bring an equinox or a Saryn or volt or any frame that has nuking capabilities to yield the same results in a playstyle. With warframe optimization and efficiency is dependent on what the player wants to do and how they want to play. 

 

Which brings me back to the lich situation. A player may not want to raise their lich level  and keep it as low as possible so the most efficient thing for them would be to farm mumurs. Generally speaking would it be slower? Possibly but the player is playing at the pace that works for them therefore deemed efficient for them and their playstyle it's not that many people "arent able to kill the lich" many people just don't like how the system is implemented and would like to practice avoiding death. I'm on my fourth lich and while I could he faster the most efficient way for me to play is to only attempt a Stab if I feel like A I'm discovering a mumur or I have all three mumurs. To minimize lich level and overall the lich is less of a bother at lower levels so it's not much of an issue for him to be around. "Just play solo" a common argument I see on the foums. But I can say the same thing or request like everything else sought to be farmed look for a group. Honestly in game this isn't really and issue as people dont generally interact with each other in game at least console wise. After the mission in pubs we leave or we stay and thats that.  Efficiency is dependent on the player not everything can be efficient for the same one thing 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

15 minutes ago, Zekkii said:

The truth is that everyone has expectations, as much as you pretend to hide it, you do.  For example, most people here are upset that people have called them out for things that they don't like, because they have an expectation that people aren't allowed to do that.  

Usually when someone says they don't have any expectations it's because they don't want any expectations placed on them.  Sorry, but that's not how the world works.  At bare minimum you're expected to not be racist, homophobic, or otherwise discriminatory.  You're expected to contribute as well, hence why leeching and afking are reportable offenses.  Luckily if you're a reasonable and considerate person, you shouldn't be running into people calling you out very much. 

Agreed but being completely realistic here do you really think having such expectations towards a game where in reality many of us don't interact with each other is such a big issue? 

 

Yes at bare minimum you are required to do those things you mentioned above. But over years things like racism etc are on much different level than "he's not stabbing his lich or playing how I want to personally play"

[Raqiya]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

It's public matchmaking however. Do you expect Someome you don't know to listen or respect you especially after "flaming them"

Of course you go for the  gentle approach first but if that doesn't work you're forced to go for the guilt trip. 
Above or else Public matches require co-operation and if a single player refuses to co-operate with the three other players in the squad the single player is more likely in the wrong and should comply with majority rules. so yeah. I do think we should be able to tell other players what to do.

[Zekkii]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Agreed but being completely realistic here do you really think having such expectations towards a game where in reality many of us don't interact with each other is such a big issue? 

 

Yes at bare minimum you are required to do those things you mentioned above. But over years things like racism etc are on much different level than "he's not stabbing his lich or playing how I want to personally play"

There's right and wrong on both sides.  You shouldn't force players to kill their Lich, but you also shouldn't hold up other players from spawning their own Liches.  Blame DE for that I guess. 

[White_Matter]

10 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Why do people expect a player to play how they want or the "optimal" of "efficient" way in public matchmaking. I've very seldom seen this behavior in other games (and if I did its usually that one or few toxic or annoying folk who want to dictate the game for their beloved gain) and I just can't grasp my head around it. Can someone please explain to me why you should or expect a certain level or gameplay or courtesy from people you don't know and don't care about.  

Telling someone how or what to do in a public setting when you don't know them just seems like you're a weirdo imo. I don't like alot of people's playstyles (like Lokis for existing and Oberon bc he's ugly) but I'm not going to tell someone I don't know in what or how to do things

I agree. How dare people expect each other to act decent ? 

[.Unreality]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

But there is no true fastest method for too much of anything in warframe. You can bring wukong into a spy and autopilot or you can bring a drift frame nezha and revive pretty much the same results. You can bring a nekros in a mission or bring a hydroid khora or Ivara and yield similar results.

You can bring an equinox or a Saryn or volt or any frame that has nuking capabilities to yield the same results in a playstyle. With warframe optimization and efficiency is dependent on what the player wants to do and how they want to play. 

 

Which brings me back to the lich situation. A player may not want to raise their lich level  and keep it as low as possible so the most efficient thing for them would be to farm mumurs. Generally speaking would it be slower? Possibly but the player is playing at the pace that works for them therefore deemed efficient for them and their playstyle it's not that many people "arent able to kill the lich" many people just don't like how the system is implemented and would like to practice avoiding death. I'm on my fourth lich and while I could he faster the most efficient way for me to play is to only attempt a Stab if I feel like A I'm discovering a mumur or I have all three mumurs. To minimize lich level and overall the lich is less of a bother at lower levels so it's not much of an issue for him to be around. "Just play solo" a common argument I see on the foums. But I can say the same thing or request like everything else sought to be farmed look for a group. Honestly in game this isn't really and issue as people dont generally interact with each other in game at least console wise. After the mission in pubs we leave or we stay and thats that.  Efficiency is dependent on the player not everything can be efficient for the same one thing 

For Spy vaults, Wukong and Nezha are strictly superior to a frame that does not have a means to bypass lasers. For solo resource farming, Nekros, Hydroid and Ivara are strictly superior to Khora and Atlas because they have higher resource multipliers. For nuking, you can determine what is best by measuring total kills in ESO. There are purely objective ways to say one thing is better than another for a certain task.

A level 5 Lich is as difficult as a level 1 Lich and if that is not the case then that is simply a lack of player capability. Interact to die is thematically backwards but that doesn't change the fact that it is the fastest method. I know a lot of people go public because they can't handle their Lich missions alone. It's not a problem that people don't interact with each other, the problem is asking them to do more for you. If you're not willing to make some sacrifices for them then it becomes faster for them to play solo and so they will.

Edited November 26, 2019 by .Unreality

[Aldain]

Everyone may have expectations.

But none of us have the power or authority to say what is right and wrong for others, we may be able to interpret the ToS, but only DE has the authority to act on it.

The sadder thing is that DE implements systems that should counter the issues (3 downs and a Lich runs meaning not stabbing isn't blocking) but people are STILL trying to enforce a nonexistent standard on others.

Acting decent to each other is a two-way street, and as much as many would rather not admit, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, if you try to be decent and then lash out at somebody for not being decent to you, you aren't as good a person as you want to act like you are.

Irreconcilable differences exist, no amount of vitriol, guilt-slinging, and demanding kindness will bend some people, rather than wasting time on those you don't care about why aren't you doing more to help those you do care about?

[KosmicKerman]

15 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

I agree. How dare people expect each other to act decent ? 

Or be courteous or considerate? What is happening to this game? I blame the Canadian influence. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

37 minutes ago, Zekkii said:

There's right and wrong on both sides.  You shouldn't force players to kill their Lich, but you also shouldn't hold up other players from spawning their own Liches.  Blame DE for that I guess. 

Agreed. On the DE part but outside of that setting standards based on your personal play etc expecting other players to follow it is just asinine to me 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

20 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said:

Or be courteous or considerate? What is happening to this game? I blame the Canadian influence. 

 okay 

 

24 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Everyone may have expectations.

But none of us have the power or authority to say what is right and wrong for others, we may be able to interpret the ToS, but only DE has the authority to act on it.

This ^

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

27 minutes ago, .Unreality said:

For Spy vaults, Wukong and Nezha are strictly superior to a frame that does not have a means to bypass lasers. For solo resource farming, Nekros, Hydroid and Ivara are strictly superior to Khora and Atlas because they have higher resource multipliers. For nuking, you can determine what is best by measuring total kills in ESO. There are purely objective ways to say one thing is better than another for a certain task.

A level 5 Lich is as difficult as a level 1 Lich and if that is not the case then that is simply a lack of player capability. Interact to die is thematically backwards but that doesn't change the fact that it is the fastest method. I know a lot of people go public because they can't handle their Lich missions alone. It's not a problem that people don't interact with each other, the problem is asking them to do more for you. If you're not willing to make some sacrifices for them then it becomes faster for them to play solo and so they will.

To your fits  statement there is no one true way or method to do said task as there are multiple viable solutions. There isn't one true frame to do any of the task above mentioned. With that being said again the most efficient way to play is dependent on the player. 

 

A level 5 lich has more dmg reduction and while may not be hard it's easier to kill them at a lower level. It's not a lack of player capibility  if they want to kill the Enemy at their weakest stratgeistly  speaking that's the smartest way to some and most effective. Less armor ehp and less damage to kill your enemy isn't about player capibility it's about choice. And warframe with all the frames and weapons are about playing how you deem efficient for you 

[.Unreality]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

To your fits  statement there is no one true way or method to do said task as there are multiple viable solutions. There isn't one true frame to do any of the task above mentioned. With that being said again the most efficient way to play is dependent on the player. 

 

A level 5 lich has more dmg reduction and while may not be hard it's easier to kill them at a lower level. It's not a lack of player capibility  if they want to kill the Enemy at their weakest stratgeistly  speaking that's the smartest way to some and most effective. Less armor ehp and less damage to kill your enemy isn't about player capibility it's about choice. And warframe with all the frames and weapons are about playing how you deem efficient for you 

It's not about having 1 method, it's about having better methods.

My Valkyr Talons modded Corrosive and Bane of Grineer downs a Lich in 2 slide attacks, 1 for non level 5 Liches. My random Kuva weapons that I'm leveling can kill level 100+ Grineer with barely any difference to a level 50. It's not about killing them when they're weakest, it's about killing them quickly. The whole point is this is quicker and thus this is more efficient.