So the point of Baza Prime and Aksomati Prime is.....?

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

I just can't even understand why a prime has almost no difference in stats from the base counterpart.

They feel the SAME as their vanilla versions. Primes are supposed to be way more powerful than their vanilla counterparts.

Seriously, a mere 2% Critical Chance increase for the Baza Prime? You could have given us a nice 32% to make a difference.

And my oh my, the status chance is even worse, you could've made that EASILY a 22% Status Chance but no..... You didn't.

Seriously DE, if you're gonna make us Farm/Buy primes, at least make them worth the Money or Time Wasted in farming them.

You didn't even touch the IPS, the base damage is literally the same as regular Baza. Like, why? It makes no sense.

Aksomati are the same history, they are weak as heck. Same as it regular variant. The stats were barely boosted. Magazine size from 70 to 80? Only 10 bullets, man what a HUGE upgrade.... (not)

Like you didn't even touch Aksomati's Critical Chance..... Why? It's a Prime.... It should have higher Crit.

Again, WHY?

This prime access is the literal definition of not a good Cost/Performance value.

You still got time to open the code a type better stats. Please? I swear, it won't even take 5 minutes to put everything together and drop it in the next HotFix.

PS: I edited the values, it is even worse than I thought. The critical chance  on the Baza was at 26% and for the Baza Prime they boost it to 28%....... Only 2% increase..... WHYYYYY???

Edited December 18, 2019 by (XB1)KnightSlayer411

[8faiNt]

TLDR Op dont know anything about DPS therefore this thread has been created

Edited December 17, 2019 by 8faiNt

[notlamprey]

The point is to make money.

[lukinu_u]

I'm happy they didn't went into insane power creep like they did with other recent prime stuff, but with the changes to Riven disposition and weapon variants could make the non-prime variants better, depending on how people react to the disposition change.

• Since the prime variant is better (sighly better but still better), people will use it over the vanilla version, meaning more people will use the prime variant.
• Prime variant will be more used that vanilla Baza, so the disposition on the prime version will fall down and since the stats difference is really small, stronger riven disposition matter more than using the prime version.
• The vanilla version will be more used than its prime variant, since higher riven disposition make it better, meaning people use the vanilla version more that prime and disposition will change according to this.
• Since vanilla version will be more used, the prime variant disposition will scale up and people won't use the vanilla anymore.
• This cycle will repeat over and over, making the vanilla or prime version sighly better depending on the month.

I'm not against the idea of making the vanilla version usable through higher riven disposition, but this super low stat variation work against this idea. To make this work what is needed is a much higher riven disposition disposition with big stats differences, maybe really differences like higher firerate at the cost of damages or something that really make the weapons differents and allow one variant or another to be better depending on the Riven.
It's good to see DE trying to do changes about this but I don't think it's the right solution.

[Reifnir]

And that's why Riven dispositions need to be set to 1.0 and never, EVER touched again. Because if there's anything we learned in all these miserable years of riven rng and dispo shifts, it's that it DOES NOT WORK

Edited December 17, 2019 by Reifnir

[Hellmaker2004]

Baza vs Baza Prime

Magazine size 40 vs 60

Reload time 1.4 vs 1.1

Crit Chance 26% vs 28%

Full damage up to 22m vs Full damage up to 30m
Min damage at 34m vs Min damage at 60m

Sounds like a substantial upgrade to me, perhaps not all weapon upgrades have to be status or damage?

[Maxim_M_Payne]

The true thing to be alarmed about is the complete aesthetic conflict of pretty much every detail on Aksomati Prime. Disregarding the pitiful stat "changes", I'm highly suspicious DE has been borderline slave-driving the art team to rush out Prime Access faster and faster. Nothing about their form language as dual pistols suggests the product of a healthily leninent deadline or creative talent that was given the time to actually unify their look and refine the work. 

When something not only barely resembles its "vanilla" weapon counterpart, but its individual segments look like they came from different creative teams working on three to five separate guns, I get real @#!%$%ing nosy about how a company is treating its artists. They do not look like weapons that resulted from artists being given enough time or a low-stress environment.

DE has done enough to dissappoint me this year; the possiblity, even remotely, that they've started treating their creative teams the way that "quality" American mega-corps like EA do is the icing on a truly noxious cake.

I'm not going to uninstall quite yet, but 2019's holiday season marks me officially growing too suspicious of business ethics at DE to purchase a single thing in-game in good conscience. I try, however futilely, to be an ethical consumer; and I am not spending one cent on a cosmetic or rushed item's worth of Platinum until I have a verified, non-coerced reassurance from one of the artists themselves; written independantly and outside of company grounds, that they weren't mistreated. 

There's been a lot of things handled suspiciously poorly this year, including Melee 3.0; so let me extend my sentiment to say that I'm suspicious about coders, artists, writers, and de-buggers being abused as well. The company seems oddly understaffed, and I keep getting an unpleasant feeling they are not properly treating the staff that's there.

 

 

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

19 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Baza vs Baza Prime

Magazine size 40 vs 60

Reload time 1.4 vs 1.1

Crit Chance 26% vs 28%

Full damage up to 22m vs Full damage up to 30m
Min damage at 34m vs Min damage at 60m

Sounds like a substantial upgrade to me, perhaps not all weapon upgrades have to be status or damage?

Read again my man, the word POWERZ is an important one

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

7 minutes ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

The true thing to be alarmed about is the complete aesthetic conflict of pretty much every detail on Aksomati Prime. Disregarding the pitiful stat "changes", I'm highly suspicious DE has been borderline slave-driving the art team to rush out Prime Access faster and faster. Nothing about their form language as dual pistols suggests the product of a healthily leninent deadline or creative talent that was given the time to actually unify their look and refine the work. 

When something not only barely resembles its "vanilla" weapon counterpart, but its individual segments look like they came from different creative teams working on three to five separate guns, I get real @#!%$%ing nosy about how a company is treating its artists. They do not look like weapons that resulted from artists being given enough time or a low-stress environment.

DE has done enough to dissappoint me this year; the possiblity, even remotely, that they've started treating their creative teams the way that "quality" American mega-corps like EA do is the icing on a truly noxious cake.

I'm not going to uninstall quite yet, but 2019's holiday season marks me officially growing too suspicious of business ethics at DE to purchase a single thing in-game in good conscience. I try, however futilely, to be an ethical consumer; and I am not spending one cent on a cosmetic or rushed item's worth of Platinum until I have a verified, non-coerced reassurance from one of the artists themselves; written independantly and outside of company grounds, that they weren't mistreated. 

There's been a lot of things handled suspiciously poorly this year, including Melee 3.0; so let me extend my sentiment to say that I'm suspicious about coders, artists, writers, and de-buggers being abused as well. The company seems oddly understaffed, and I keep getting an unpleasant feeling they are not properly treating the staff that's there.

 

 

Fee free to add it, because yeah, Aksomati design is really bad

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

25 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

I'm happy they didn't went into insane power creep like they did with other recent prime stuff, but with the changes to Riven disposition and weapon variants could make the non-prime variants better, depending on how people react to the disposition change.

• Since the prime variant is better (sighly better but still better), people will use it over the vanilla version, meaning more people will use the prime variant.
• Prime variant will be more used that vanilla Baza, so the disposition on the prime version will fall down and since the stats difference is really small, stronger riven disposition matter more than using the prime version.
• The vanilla version will be more used than its prime variant, since higher riven disposition make it better, meaning people use the vanilla version more that prime and disposition will change according to this.
• Since vanilla version will be more used, the prime variant disposition will scale up and people won't use the vanilla anymore.
• This cycle will repeat over and over, making the vanilla or prime version sighly better depending on the month.

I'm not against the idea of making the vanilla version usable through higher riven disposition, but this super low stat variation work against this idea. To make this work what is needed is a much higher riven disposition disposition with big stats differences, maybe really differences like higher firerate at the cost of damages or something that really make the weapons differents and allow one variant or another to be better depending on the Riven.
It's good to see DE trying to do changes about this but I don't think it's the right solution.

They should go to power creep because the game at a certain point if you plag long enough in a mission, it will REQUIRE that power creep.

 

And no, Rivens shouldn't be taken into consideration by the simple fact that a weapon needs to be sufficient with regular mods

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

27 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

I'm happy they didn't went into insane power creep like they did with other recent prime stuff, but with the changes to Riven disposition and weapon variants could make the non-prime variants better, depending on how people react to the disposition change.

• Since the prime variant is better (sighly better but still better), people will use it over the vanilla version, meaning more people will use the prime variant.
• Prime variant will be more used that vanilla Baza, so the disposition on the prime version will fall down and since the stats difference is really small, stronger riven disposition matter more than using the prime version.
• The vanilla version will be more used than its prime variant, since higher riven disposition make it better, meaning people use the vanilla version more that prime and disposition will change according to this.
• Since vanilla version will be more used, the prime variant disposition will scale up and people won't use the vanilla anymore.
• This cycle will repeat over and over, making the vanilla or prime version sighly better depending on the month.

I'm not against the idea of making the vanilla version usable through higher riven disposition, but this super low stat variation work against this idea. To make this work what is needed is a much higher riven disposition disposition with big stats differences, maybe really differences like higher firerate at the cost of damages or something that really make the weapons differents and allow one variant or another to be better depending on the Riven.
It's good to see DE trying to do changes about this but I don't think it's the right solution.

Man, stop being so mediocre. Players are either PAYING actual money o farming for days to get these and for what? Changes that don't even make primes a different from the regular versions?

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

38 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

The point is to make money.

Yeah, but have decency while at it.

[Andele3025]

28 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

I'm happy they didn't went into insane power creep like they did with other recent prime stuff, but with the changes to Riven disposition and weapon variants could make the non-prime variants better, depending on how people react to the disposition change.

I mean, prime vs regular shouldnt have different dispositions in the first place if DE were sticking to the supposed idea of rivens because a weapon with a upgrade is rated off that upgrade (and if the "upgrade" changes the functionality instead of adds to the functionality of the base weapon, it shouldnt have been that weapons upgraded form).

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

24 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Baza vs Baza Prime

Magazine size 40 vs 60

Reload time 1.4 vs 1.1

Crit Chance 26% vs 28%

Full damage up to 22m vs Full damage up to 30m
Min damage at 34m vs Min damage at 60m

Sounds like a substantial upgrade to me, perhaps not all weapon upgrades have to be status or damage?

Oh riigh because 20 rounds more are going to help me kill that lvl 130 right?

Or 2 tenths of a second less is gonna make feel the reload faster right?

And ooooh a 4% crit chance increase from 24% to 28% oh JUICY (It isn't)

Oh yeeeaah, Bullet Falloff on a RIFLE that's nice right?

But what is this? You didn't make a single mention to the Status Chance and even less about Aksomati.

Why is that I wonder?

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

4 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

I mean, prime vs regular shouldnt have different dispositions in the first place if DE were sticking to the supposed idea of rivens because a weapon with a upgrade is rated off that upgrade (and if the "upgrade" changes the functionality instead of adds to the functionality of the base weapon, it shouldnt have been that weapons upgraded form).

They should have different dispositions if all Primes were substantially more powerful than regular counterparts. But in case of Baza and Aksomati? There's no difference

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

59 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

TLDR Op dont know anything about DPS therefore this thread has been created

Sure fam, go take baza prime against 150s. Tell me how many magazines DIRECTLY to the head you need to take it down without a riven. Go ahead.

[Andele3025]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)KnightSlayer411 said:

They should have different dispositions if all Primes were substantially more powerful than regular counterparts. But in case of Baza and Aksomati? There's no difference

No they shouldnt. Rivens are SUPPOSEDLY INTENDED to increase use and balance power of underused weapons. If a weapon has a upgraded version that is that weapon, its you using a worse/stepping stone version of the weapon, not the weapon itself being bad.
Its like complaining that the MK1 braton cant compete.

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

39 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

I'm happy they didn't went into insane power creep like they did with other recent prime stuff, but with the changes to Riven disposition and weapon variants could make the non-prime variants better, depending on how people react to the disposition change.

• Since the prime variant is better (sighly better but still better), people will use it over the vanilla version, meaning more people will use the prime variant.
• Prime variant will be more used that vanilla Baza, so the disposition on the prime version will fall down and since the stats difference is really small, stronger riven disposition matter more than using the prime version.
• The vanilla version will be more used than its prime variant, since higher riven disposition make it better, meaning people use the vanilla version more that prime and disposition will change according to this.
• Since vanilla version will be more used, the prime variant disposition will scale up and people won't use the vanilla anymore.
• This cycle will repeat over and over, making the vanilla or prime version sighly better depending on the month.

I'm not against the idea of making the vanilla version usable through higher riven disposition, but this super low stat variation work against this idea. To make this work what is needed is a much higher riven disposition disposition with big stats differences, maybe really differences like higher firerate at the cost of damages or something that really make the weapons differents and allow one variant or another to be better depending on the Riven.
It's good to see DE trying to do changes about this but I don't think it's the right solution.

And if that's their new marketing for their primes then they better get use to loose money.

People buy primes because they're an upgrade both in a esthetic way and performance way.

If new prime variants aren't palpable performance upgrade, then no one will bother to buy them or farm them

 

[Hellmaker2004]

I did not even see it had better status, but it did. So yeah it even got 

10% status vs 14% status.

To me this all sound like you did not get the power creep you wanted, but the Baza was already a really strong Rifle.

Now you may not like it, and you are allowed to not like it. But that will not change that it is a perfectly viable weapon, and getting substantial upgrades in areas despite you not caring about those are still substantial upgrades.

And as of Aksomati, the Wiki have not yet been uppdated so hard to say how good or bad it is.

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

2 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

No they shouldnt. Rivens are SUPPOSEDLY INTENDED to increase use and balance power of underused weapons. If a weapon has a upgraded version that is that weapon, its you using a worse/stepping stone version of the weapon, not the weapon itself being bad.
Its like complaining that the MK1 braton cant compete.

Yes they should have different rivens disposition if the Prime variants are significantly stronger. It's common sense.

If they're going to start releasing weak Primes, then R.I.P to their prime access.

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by (XB1)KnightSlayer411

[(XBOX)KnightSlayer411]

1 minute ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

I did not even see it had better status, but it did. So yeah it even got 

10% status vs 14% status.

To me this all sound like you did not get the power creep you wanted, but the Baza was already a really strong Rifle.

Now you may not like it, and you are allowed to not like it. But that will not change that it is a perfectly viable weapon, and getting substantial upgrades in areas despite you not caring about those are still substantial upgrades.

And as of Aksomati, the Wiki have not yet been uppdated so hard to say how good or bad it is.

14% status is still nothing MY POINT if you read carefully is that it isn't a substantial UPGRADE as it should be.

why? Because it's a PRIME

And no, the Baza was just good against low to mid level enemies. Baza starts to fade as soon as a level 80 comes into place and higher than that it becomes useless.

[Hellmaker2004]

I can assure you that Baza can compete with way higher enemies than level 80 if you mod it correctly.

And my counter point is that you may not like a lot of the upgrades, but there are a substantial upgrade if you compare the Baza vs Baza Prime.

[lukinu_u]

il y a 5 minutes, (XB1)KnightSlayer411 a dit :

Man, stop being so mediocre. Players are either PAYING actual money o farming for days to get these and for what? Changes that don't even make primes a different from the regular versions?

If farming for something is enough for you to justify it being simply better, the game will be balanced. I understand you can be disapointed by a weapon upgrade that is so small, but the vanilla weapon is strong and already perform better than a few prime weapon we already have in game, so a few "QoL" like magazine, relload and fall off range (which increase your sustained DPS) are definitely enough in my opinion.
 

il y a 12 minutes, (XB1)KnightSlayer411 a dit :

They should go to power creep because the game at a certain point if you plag long enough in a mission, it will REQUIRE that power creep.

And no, Rivens shouldn't be taken into consideration by the simple fact that a weapon needs to be sufficient with regular mods

Well, if you argue we "need" power creep, this is actually what Riven are here for and they do their job more than well enough. More than 90% of weapon can do the job against 120+ (which you never see unless you do long endless run), and this without a Riven build, so they are not needed, but using them make your weapon even stronger and allow it to go against higher level stuff which you're not supposed to fight with.
Since weapons already do the job against all enemies we're supposed to fight, increase their damages further will actually break the few balance we have and make high firerate weapons better, since they will OS and high damage single shot weapons won't be that good.
 

il y a 14 minutes, Andele3025 a dit :

I mean, prime vs regular shouldnt have different dispositions in the first place if DE were sticking to the supposed idea of rivens because a weapon with a upgrade is rated off that upgrade (and if the "upgrade" changes the functionality instead of adds to the functionality of the base weapon, it shouldnt have been that weapons upgraded form).

I see your point, but lore wise, since most of vanilla Tenno weapons are lower tech copy of prime weapons, it make sense for them to be little different to balance what is missing, or for prime weapon to have little passives like the ghosts of Ballistica Prime. 
 

il y a 2 minutes, (XB1)KnightSlayer411 a dit :

14% status is still nothing MY POINT if you read carefully is that it isn't a substantial UPGRADE as it should be.

why? Because it's a PRIME

And no, the Baza was just good against low to mid level enemies. Baza starts to fade as soon as a level 80 comes into place and higher than that it becomes useless.

14% from 10% is a total 40% upgrade, which is more than a huge upgrade.

And no, Baza doesn't start to fade against lvl 80. With the right build, you can still melt lvl 120+ enemies.

[NinjaZeku]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)KnightSlayer411 said:

Oh riigh because 20 rounds more are going to help me kill that lvl 130 right?

Well, yes.

22 minutes ago, (XB1)KnightSlayer411 said:

Or 2 tenths of a second less is gonna make feel the reload faster right?

1.1 vs 1.4 is a 3 tenths of a second difference, but anyway, yes, you can feel that.

23 minutes ago, (XB1)KnightSlayer411 said:

And ooooh a 4% crit chance increase from 24% to 28% oh JUICY (It isn't)

It's a neat enough increase for a full-auto weapon, and not least will help +Crit Chance Rivens
(which will be weaker on the Prime) to still bump the numbers up to a reliable (yay) 100%+ CC.

25 minutes ago, (XB1)KnightSlayer411 said:

Oh yeeeaah, Bullet Falloff on a RIFLE that's nice right?

Better falloff values so you can use the weapon at longer ranges, yes, that's nice, indeed.

26 minutes ago, (XB1)KnightSlayer411 said:

But what is this? You didn't make a single mention to the Status Chance and even less about Aksomati.

Baza P got better Status (which was apparently good enough already to make lotsa people run Viral + HunMun),
and Aksomati P is a full-auto Secondary with 50% Slash, so more Status Chance is amazing to have for multiple reasons.

[prodi1600]

Not all weapons should be power creeps, if you dislike them don't farm them and get the Ivara with warframe marketplace.