DE's questionable lRoadmap

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

This is all just straight-up lying, as players have clearly pointed out the balance issues with Railjack that compel people to seek out those high-level components for the thing to be usable.

You claim that D3 has no compensatory systems right as you list several within this very paragraph (the guaranteed rolls with Kanai's Cube, XP, Torment levels). Your point is not only false, it proved itself wrong.

I would suggest you do so first, as your reply is once again so completely beside reality it raises the question as who you expect to actually believe you. Really, who do you expect to convince with any of this? You know I only care about concrete facts and evidence, and the only other people who still pay attention to what you have to say openly mock your posts. If this is all you have to say, why break your promise not to reply any further? 

Nope, not a straight up lie. Heck I've pugged from earth through veil with zero issues. On ships having 1k hp to 6.5k HP, it has all been the same, the approach has differed, the end result has still been faceroll. Has it ever occured to you that those players complaining and claiming they need perfect vidar reactors are just uhm... you know... bad players? I'm no stellar RJ pilot yet my RJ survived fine in veil with a 50 capacity reactor for many missions. Did I get anything extra form my 87 capacity vidar? Yup, I got to slot 3 tactical avionics that I never use aswell as swap out one other avionic for slightly more drift speed. Zomg! OP Vidar reactors! Such must have, very epiclegendprimaltastic gear!

As I said, Kenai's cube isnt compensatory, because it doesnt help you use something you dont want. It has 3 very specific roles to fill to perfect your build. Torment levels are also not compensatory. You can reach a whooping 16 torment now or whatever it is. That still results in zero xp gain when you farm for mats you need thousands of before it even gets worthile to start crafting. Since Vidar reactor equal top of the line endgame gear here, we should compare it with top of the line endgame in D3. That means you are sitting at GR72+ atleast so you have primals unlocked as drops, that means torment levels are so far below your level that you dont progress at all. All in order to use a "compensatory" system. If it was compensatory you'd get the bounty mats passively by doing NRifts and GRifts so you could craft up whatever scrap legendary loot you find as you go, without having to stop and do things that feels like you run level 1 content. You dont get compensated by being forced into low level content in order to make use of high level loot. WF is more compensatory because atleast we get dirac and everything else we need as we grind for the top end items to min-max our builds.

No need for me to go play RJ since I have most of what I need. 13 more capacity would be cool, a better predator aswell, but the content is already faceroll. My suggestion to you is improve your gameplay.

[Aggh]

8 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I don't have to say much more here, as this response was met with immediate disagreement from others. As said already, your response itself also presumes that even with the lowered standard you are setting, it is necessary to grind just for Railjacks to be usable, to say nothing of how RNG stats prolong the grind in ways most players have been finding unpleasant.

 

You mean by one other person.  Who never actually said I was wrong, just built straw men like you claiming that I'm saying it's fine as long as it's barely playable.  If you can't manage to play the veil with a clan reactor, vidar avionics and mk III clan guns, all of which are easily obtained, it's user error that's causing problems.  Why not just up and say you're bad at the game and you want it to be a walk in the park like it usually is?  Dressing it up as though it's a problem with RNG that you can't min max things into a trivial difficulty that the game mode was never meant to have is ridiculous.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Aggh

[Teridax68]

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope, not a straight up lie. Heck I've pugged from earth through veil with zero issues. On ships having 1k hp to 6.5k HP, it has all been the same, the approach has differed, the end result has still been faceroll. Has it ever occured to you that those players complaining and claiming they need perfect vidar reactors are just uhm... you know... bad players? I'm no stellar RJ pilot yet my RJ survived fine in veil with a 50 capacity reactor for many missions. Did I get anything extra form my 87 capacity vidar? Yup, I got to slot 3 tactical avionics that I never use aswell as swap out one other avionic for slightly more drift speed. Zomg! OP Vidar reactors! Such must have, very epiclegendprimaltastic gear!

So you're not lying... because you say so? Real convincing argument there. Also, didn't you try bragging with some similar invented narrative about your Railjack success story before and get laughed at already? How do you expect anyone to believe you here?

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

As I said, Kenai's cube isnt compensatory, because it doesnt help you use something you dont want. It has 3 very specific roles to fill to perfect your build. Torment levels are also not compensatory. You can reach a whooping 16 torment now or whatever it is. That still results in zero xp gain when you farm for mats you need thousands of before it even gets worthile to start crafting. Since Vidar reactor equal top of the line endgame gear here, we should compare it with top of the line endgame in D3. That means you are sitting at GR72+ atleast so you have primals unlocked as drops, that means torment levels are so far below your level that you dont progress at all. All in order to use a "compensatory" system. If it was compensatory you'd get the bounty mats passively by doing NRifts and GRifts so you could craft up whatever scrap legendary loot you find as you go, without having to stop and do things that feels like you run level 1 content. You dont get compensated by being forced into low level content in order to make use of high level loot. WF is more compensatory because atleast we get dirac and everything else we need as we grind for the top end items to min-max our builds.

You visibly do not understand what compensatory systems are. Kanai's Cube allows the player to use mats to reforge legendaries into Primals, thus allowing the player to compensate for a lack in Primal drops with Primal reforging. It also allows the player to equip maxed-out versions of certain legendary effects in case they get low rolls on their item versions, thus compensating for the associated RNG. Higher Torment levels allow for higher rewards at will, thus compensating for what would otherwise be slower progression (and the XP increases are significant). Your comparison between the different stages of Diablo and Railjack does not even begin to make sense, and in fact harms your point, as you are effectively telling me the player needs the equivalent of Primals for their Railjack to function.

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No need for me to go play RJ since I have most of what I need. 13 more capacity would be cool, a better predator aswell, but the content is already faceroll. My suggestion to you is improve your gameplay.

This is a rather interesting statement to make considering how DE is announcing major rebalancing and bugfixing to Railjack. Your entire string of lies and false pretenses on this thread has been disproven by DE themselves, as it has already been, and as it inevitably would. You are demonstrably wrong on every single point you have made here, a singular feat that almost comes across as deliberate. The question remains: what was the purpose of your posts? What did you think you were contributing? Had you left when you said you would, you could've perhaps saved face somewhat, but after this... whew.

7 hours ago, Aggh said:

You mean by one other person.  Who never actually said I was wrong, just built straw men like you claiming that I'm saying it's fine as long as it's barely playable.

I count two people directly contradicting what you said, in a manner congruent with the near-totality of people who have given feedback on Railjack. I also fail to see the "straw men" here, you really did set such a ridiculously low standard here that it begs the question as to whether you're even advocating for a healthy state of the game.

7 hours ago, Aggh said:

  If you can't manage to play the veil with a clan reactor, vidar avionics and mk III clan guns, all of which are easily obtained, it's user error that's causing problems.  Why not just up and say you're bad at the game and you want it to be a walk in the park like it usually is?  Dressing it up as though it's a problem with RNG that you can't min max things into a trivial difficulty that the game mode was never meant to have is ridiculous.

Because even if the entire Warframe playerbase, except for you and some handful of elite people, were bad at Railjack, that would itself be cause for concern, and a reason to change the mode. As it stands, DE is about to hotfix Railjack extensively based on this feedback. I'm sure that in an environment where some people are desperate to feel good about themselves in some way, it must provide some temporary relief to brag about how supposedly better you are than other players, but the simple reality at hand is that not only are you almost certainly inventing your own narrative, nobody even cares. Not even DE, who you seem to be desperately trying to protect at all costs, cares, or likely even knows of your existence. They haven't listened to you, they've listened to the people you're trying even now to dismiss and put down. You've lost.

[Aggh]

2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

 

Because even if the entire Warframe playerbase, except for you and some handful of elite people, were bad at Railjack, that would itself be cause for concern, and a reason to change the mode. As it stands, DE is about to hotfix Railjack extensively based on this feedback. I'm sure that in an environment where some people are desperate to feel good about themselves in some way, it must provide some temporary relief to brag about how supposedly better you are than other players, but the simple reality at hand is that not only are you almost certainly inventing your own narrative, nobody even cares. Not even DE, who you seem to be desperately trying to protect at all costs, cares, or likely even knows of your existence. They haven't listened to you, they've listened to the people you're trying even now to dismiss and put down. You've lost.

They aren't though.  I spent my first week in rail jack just match making into other peoples' ships before I bothered using my railjack.   I played with literally hundreds of people on EU and NA regions on rail jacks that clearly were not min maxed and we all did just fine.  I'm not saying that I'm better than you, I'm saying tons of people are better than you.
.
I think you're going to be pretty disappointed by the changes DE is getting ready to make.  Even they don't seem to be in complete agreement on the needed changes and they like to take baby steps on major system changes.  People who don't think the sky is falling will probably love the changes, but if you're struggling in veil missions this late after release nothing is going to satisfy you.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Aggh

[Teridax68]

7 hours ago, Aggh said:

They aren't though.  I spent my first week in rail jack just match making into other peoples' ships before I bothered using my railjack.   I played with literally hundreds of people on EU and NA regions on rail jacks that clearly were not min maxed and we all did just fine.  I'm not saying that I'm better than you, I'm saying tons of people are better than you.
.
I think you're going to be pretty disappointed by the changes DE is getting ready to make.  Even they don't seem to be in complete agreement on the needed changes and they like to take baby steps on major system changes.  People who don't think the sky is falling will probably love the changes, but if you're struggling in veil missions this late after release nothing is going to satisfy you.

I'm sorry, which part of "DE openly acknowledges a balance problem and is buffing Railjack" did you miss? Which part of "DE is pushing out as many fixes and rebalances to Railjack as they possibly can" did you miss? For someone who whined about straw men not three posts ago, you've impressively based your entire argumentation on them here: my point was never that one's Railjack needs to be absolutely min-maxed to be playable, but that at least some high-level components are necessary for one's Railjack to not be too weak to use properly, and that even with just decent amounts RJ isn't exactly that good (a fact the first link corroborates, from DE themselves). Similarly, trying to pin this on my person and claim I'm complaining because I'm supposedly still struggling even now is generally pretty useless, as it makes no point and serves only as a personal attack, but is also itself based on strictly nothing I've actually said: I've merely pointed out that people in general have run into balance issues when dealing with Railjack enemies, especially in the Veil, to the point where Archwing is seriously favored over RJ. Again, this is something corroborated by the linked replies. Even as you have the evidence presented to you from DE themselves that Railjack has problems and that they'll be working to fix them, you still try to pretend to work for DE and claim to know those changes better than everyone else, even the developers who don't seem to agree with you. The amount of sheer denial and gracelessness on display here boggles the mind.

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

So you're not lying... because you say so? Real convincing argument there. Also, didn't you try bragging with some similar invented narrative about your Railjack success story before and get laughed at already? How do you expect anyone to believe you here?

You visibly do not understand what compensatory systems are. Kanai's Cube allows the player to use mats to reforge legendaries into Primals, thus allowing the player to compensate for a lack in Primal drops with Primal reforging. It also allows the player to equip maxed-out versions of certain legendary effects in case they get low rolls on their item versions, thus compensating for the associated RNG. Higher Torment levels allow for higher rewards at will, thus compensating for what would otherwise be slower progression (and the XP increases are significant). Your comparison between the different stages of Diablo and Railjack does not even begin to make sense, and in fact harms your point, as you are effectively telling me the player needs the equivalent of Primals for their Railjack to function.

This is a rather interesting statement to make considering how DE is announcing major rebalancing and bugfixing to Railjack. Your entire string of lies and false pretenses on this thread has been disproven by DE themselves, as it has already been, and as it inevitably would. You are demonstrably wrong on every single point you have made here, a singular feat that almost comes across as deliberate. The question remains: what was the purpose of your posts? What did you think you were contributing? Had you left when you said you would, you could've perhaps saved face somewhat, but after this... whew.

I count two people directly contradicting what you said, in a manner congruent with the near-totality of people who have given feedback on Railjack. I also fail to see the "straw men" here, you really did set such a ridiculously low standard here that it begs the question as to whether you're even advocating for a healthy state of the game.

Because even if the entire Warframe playerbase, except for you and some handful of elite people, were bad at Railjack, that would itself be cause for concern, and a reason to change the mode. As it stands, DE is about to hotfix Railjack extensively based on this feedback. I'm sure that in an environment where some people are desperate to feel good about themselves in some way, it must provide some temporary relief to brag about how supposedly better you are than other players, but the simple reality at hand is that not only are you almost certainly inventing your own narrative, nobody even cares. Not even DE, who you seem to be desperately trying to protect at all costs, cares, or likely even knows of your existence. They haven't listened to you, they've listened to the people you're trying even now to dismiss and put down. You've lost.

No one has pointed out anything about any success story. Oh you mean me saying RNG isnt so over the top as people claim? Nope, maybe you laughed somewhere in your head, I dont know. You should look in this thread since there are more people agreeing with me regarding your made up "must have vidar" claims than there are people agreeing with you. You know, people here who are actually farming Veil without a Vidar reactor with max rolls.

No that is no compensatory because that requires a seperate, dedicated grind. So you give up on one chance in order to rely on another chance. You also dont reforge, you simple reroll the whole items, which can result in you going from an ancient with acceptable rolls and affix lines to a regular legendary with poor rolls and the wrong affix lines. That is not compensatory because you are not compensated. And being able to equip certain maxed out effects is also not compensatory, that is simply the system being used as it should. It isnt about something you use if you get low rolls or not. You will have the slot dedicated to one specific item that goes in your build, you will not give a crap if that item rolls with low or max rolls because you will not keep it even with a max roll since it doesnt fit into your build outside of the cube. If you equipped it just because you got a max roll you will effectively gimp your build. So no, not a compensatory system. Higher torment is still pointless with higher rewards because you still need to grind them specifically for no other reward than the mats, removing time from content that may actually drop the things you need aswell as robbing you of the chance at upgrading your gems. If Torment was ever going to be useful and not a drawback it would need to have up towards 30 levels to pick from. It is also you that claims that a RJ needs the equal to a primal to function, which it doesnt. That is what you imply when you claim that the RJ needs a Vidar Reactor to even work. It needs a simple Sigma MK3 or a top rolled Zetki, that is it. Then you can fit all needed aswell as some extra avionics into your build.

What would that disprove except that another already easy enough mode will get nerfed? That doesnt make the mode less faceroll in its current shape, it just makes it even more faceroll after the changes to RJ weapons (that are already strong if you have any clue how you build your RJ loadout). If it is so hard and imbalanced now, it is kinda odd that so many of us have already finished the whole mode and now sit with fully geared MK3 RJs. I'm all for the fixes to healing orbs and marked loot etc. But the changes to guns? Hilarious pampering imo. They should have just removed the buff possibilities from those specific frames and left the weapons as they are, maybe buff/change zetki a bit.

Even though the rest isnt directed to me I'll still answer. 2 people arent exactly alot when the whole in-game population that runs Veil kinda backs up all he and I says.

And none of us are "elite" people or "handful". Every mission from earth through veil have been a breeze except for maybe 5 in total that have failed due to shear stupidity on my part (and others) by just missing a critical breach because they are mostly so damn uncommon that when they pop you sometimes miss them. That is how faceroll empyrean is mostly, so you forget when things like critical breaches happen, because your head isnt fully in the mission.

[Elenortirie]

16 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

So you're not lying... because you say so? Real convincing argument there. Also, didn't you try bragging with some similar invented narrative about your Railjack success story before and get laughed at already? How do you expect anyone to believe you here?

I've cleared veil gian with stock railjack that only have maxed particle ram worth of mentioning.... with 2 man squad.

took a bit longer than properly equipped one, would take probably less if I myself was able to pull quick boarding actions, as a friend could, since that would allow him to just keep piloting all the time, but it is doable.

53 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It needs a simple Sigma MK3 or a top rolled Zetki, that is it. Then you can fit all needed aswell as some extra avionics into your build.

I've managed to squish a decent build into sigma mk2 😉

[Teridax68]

6 minutes ago, Elenortirie said:

I've cleared veil gian with stock railjack that only have maxed particle ram worth of mentioning.... with 2 man squad.

took a bit longer than properly equipped one, would take probably less if I myself was able to pull quick boarding actions, as a friend could, since that would allow him to just keep piloting all the time, but it is doable.

I think this misunderstands the conversation at hand, in that it's always possible to clear content even with the worst possible Railjack... it's just that doing so requires using RJ as minimally as possible, and instead relying heavily on Archwing and boarding. I don't think that's really a great state of affairs, and DE visibly doesn't either, hence why they're rebalancing the mode.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

No one has pointed out anything about any success story. Oh you mean me saying RNG isnt so over the top as people claim? Nope, maybe you laughed somewhere in your head, I dont know. You should look in this thread since there are more people agreeing with me regarding your made up "must have vidar" claims than there are people agreeing with you. You know, people here who are actually farming Veil without a Vidar reactor with max rolls.

You literally just invented your own Railjack success story, in what is now a long line of deliberately false statements easily disproven by your immediate previous posts. Furthermore, the tepid agreement by a tiny minority of people is itself far overshadowed by the sheer number of players, including devoted content creators, pointing out otherwise, often with video evidence, and now DE themselves. You're not winning this contest of opinion even in your wildest dreams.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

No that is no compensatory because that requires a seperate, dedicated grind. So you give up on one chance in order to rely on another chance. You also dont reforge, you simple reroll the whole items, which can result in you going from an ancient with acceptable rolls and affix lines to a regular legendary with poor rolls and the wrong affix lines. That is not compensatory because you are not compensated. And being able to equip certain maxed out effects is also not compensatory, that is simply the system being used as it should. It isnt about something you use if you get low rolls or not. You will have the slot dedicated to one specific item that goes in your build, you will not give a crap if that item rolls with low or max rolls because you will not keep it even with a max roll since it doesnt fit into your build outside of the cube. If you equipped it just because you got a max roll you will effectively gimp your build. So no, not a compensatory system. Higher torment is still pointless with higher rewards because you still need to grind them specifically for no other reward than the mats, removing time from content that may actually drop the things you need aswell as robbing you of the chance at upgrading your gems. If Torment was ever going to be useful and not a drawback it would need to have up towards 30 levels to pick from. It is also you that claims that a RJ needs the equal to a primal to function, which it doesnt. That is what you imply when you claim that the RJ needs a Vidar Reactor to even work. It needs a simple Sigma MK3 or a top rolled Zetki, that is it. Then you can fit all needed aswell as some extra avionics into your build.

Those grinds are not separate, they rely on things you normally do as part of the regular grind. You are therefore making stuff up again, right down to how apparently using Kanai's Cube gimps one's build (???). As for Railjack... there isn't anything to be said here, as DE agrees with me, as do most people. Given the sheer number of false claims you've made on this thread, your word alone here is worth less than nothing.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

What would that disprove except that another already easy enough mode will get nerfed? That doesnt make the mode less faceroll in its current shape, it just makes it even more faceroll after the changes to RJ weapons (that are already strong if you have any clue how you build your RJ loadout). If it is so hard and imbalanced now, it is kinda odd that so many of us have already finished the whole mode and now sit with fully geared MK3 RJs. I'm all for the fixes to healing orbs and marked loot etc. But the changes to guns? Hilarious pampering imo. They should have just removed the buff possibilities from those specific frames and left the weapons as they are, maybe buff/change zetki a bit.

I'm sorry, all I'm reading here is "wah wah wah". DE acknowledges that Railjack has a lot to be fixed, and is setting out to fix it, regardless of how much denialist dreck you write on their forums. The fact that you're legitimately mad that DE is fixing Railjack only after you had to suffer through the half-baked product only makes this case of sour grapes all the more delicious.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Even though the rest isnt directed to me I'll still answer. 2 people arent exactly alot when the whole in-game population that runs Veil kinda backs up all he and I says.

... where? Again, given the sheer amount of evidence to the contrary, this statement is utterly delusional.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And none of us are "elite" people or "handful". Every mission from earth through veil have been a breeze except for maybe 5 in total that have failed due to shear stupidity on my part (and others) by just missing a critical breach because they are mostly so damn uncommon that when they pop you sometimes miss them. That is how faceroll empyrean is mostly, so you forget when things like critical breaches happen, because your head isnt fully in the mission.

It is sad just how far the point went over your head here. Putting aside the obvious sarcasm in my statement, as I'm well aware your self-attributed Railjack credentials are entirely made up, its entire purpose was to show that even if what you said were true, it wouldn't matter. It doesn't matter how easy you claim Railjack to be, because not even DE agrees with you. Not even the developer you are toadying to is on your side here, is how wrong you are. What do you even hope to achieve at this point?

[Elenortirie]

40 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I think this misunderstands the conversation at hand, in that it's always possible to clear content even with the worst possible Railjack... it's just that doing so requires using RJ as minimally as possible, and instead relying heavily on Archwing and boarding. I don't think that's really a great state of affairs, and DE visibly doesn't either, hence why they're rebalancing the mode.

except, we did not - we used particle ram to deal with fighters, and slinghshotted or way to the crewships - I don't think we had used AW for anything real in there. Kinda bad that I don;t have my recording capable PC at hand I'd record that run and post in on YT for easy reference xD

 

as for boarding - yeah the most efficient way of dealing with crewships regardless of your upgrades to rj is to board it.

[Aadi880]

On 2020-01-08 at 5:46 AM, Aggh said:

Decent Mk III weapons are not all that hard to get either.

but repairing them tho.

[SneakyErvin]

48 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

-snip-

He/she isnt misunderstanding anything since you claim Vidar Reactor or well 100 bonus capacity is needed to do anything or get even near efficient results. He/she is saying they did it with a stock railjack and it took barely longer. That means, that just as I say, a Sigma MK3 is more than enough to clear the content efficiently and that Vidar is for min-max purposes only. Not that a Vidar reactor will actually improve your clear efficency notably because +50 capactiy lets you slot everything you need. A Vidar will let you cram out maybe 10% more total damage from your build if you already have the right avionics equipped with cheaper versions. 10% damage versus the already fragile fighters is utterly pointless because either your cryo will blow them up in 1 hit already or your carcinnox will need a second more sustained fire. And DE changing it is just another step where DE listens to some that arent even prepared to enter the content they complain about, or grasp the synergy between guns and mods. Those people that have trouble now wont see a difference because we are talking about armor getting removed from vessels that already die fast, even without abuse of frame buffs. If there is no bugged out healing orb in play, those Veil ships are already dead from a harsh sneeze.

I didnt invent anything, I got everything I needed in the timespan of 2 weeks. I can still perfect the build by min-maxing, but it isnt needed. You have real issues with words such as promise, invent, lies and facts. Also, a big favor from me to you. Overshadowed by what shear amount of players? You mean all those that actually play the mode and perform well in pugs even with fairly basic RJs? Or the shear amount that complain and havent even tried the mode properly. Also, devoted content creators, lol. They are usually some of the worst players out there if they cant follow a cookie cutter build invented by someone else. I'm winning the contest because I play the mode with others that can handle it without needing a min-maxed specific item they obsess about.

Also no, those are very much seperate because they arent part of the things you normaly do except at the entry level i.e when you hit max level and just want to get through the season chores for the first free set. That first free set that lets you start the grind for min-maxing, that first free guaranteed set that is the equal to a sigma mk3 here, to let you start the grind to get the best possible loadout. Just as primals arent needed to start the push, the vidar reactor isnt needed to clear the veil efficiently to farm for the very thing you want handed on a silver platter. Also, please for the love of all things unholy, read man, read! I said using the cube on the wrong item is gimping your spec, like equipping the max rolled item that was actually intended for the cube while cubing the low rolled item that was intended to actually be equipped for your build. That is gimping your build. Also, where are those "most" people. I see more supporting my view by providing their own input based on their own experiences.

Of course it has alot to be fixed. I'm arguing 1 very specific thing that you are 100% wrong about, namely the Vidar Reactor. But I guess for someone like you who is so obsessed with a single item it would seem like I'm saying no fixes are needed at all. Which is the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying one simple thing, Vidar Reactor isnt needed to complete anything or in order to be efficient, since yor dojo has (hopefully) access to Sigma MK3 and Zetki drops in piles. I'm also not mad at DE, I'm more disappointed because they act too quick on the "but mah damage!" outcries when it in reality is balanced when you have the proper gear i.e atleast full dojo mk3 gear. I dont think many of those that complain are even geared properly for veil to begin with, but it is easier to complain than play the mode. Most have likely rushed intrinsics to 7, which is really DEs fault for setting such a stupid (to say the least) requirement for a zone instead of having a "gear score" tied to their new MK tiers. They should have probably had both, 7 intrinsics for crewmen to sign up, full MK2 for hosts. Also, if I was legitimately mad you are implying that you actually agree with me since you say my anger would be legitimate i.e justified.

Where? In the game, playing the mode instead of complaining over content that they've never done. You've still dodged that question since the start, how far along are you in RJ?

It didnt come off as sarcasm, well the elite part did, not the handful comment. But, uhm, wait. So if you think I'm legitimately angry (which I'm not) and "handful" was sarcasm, then that means you actually agree with everything I've said since as I said earlier, you think my anger is justified and we obviously arent just a handful if your handful comment was sarcasm. Just as those that arent just a handful arent elite either. So the mode is cleared by many avarage players (me included). Or did you just happen to sprinkle your posts with big words?

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2020-01-07 at 10:24 PM, Teridax68 said:

When the weapons are so far below what you have, you turn them into currency or resources you can use to acquire other stuff, yes. There is no such system in Warframe, hence one more reason why the grind feels so awful by comparison. This is to say nothing of how BL and Diablo make a point of very quickly giving players usable stuff that is only superseded by exceptional items, thus ensuring the player doesn't hit some gear check wall at the start of play where their character cannot operate properly without some rare drop.

Soooo....so, what do you call endo and dirac? What happens when you scrap a built weapon? Can you not sell or trade those weapons? Are you suggesting a co-op based game mode is too difficult in the beginning without rare gear? Perhaps your issue still revolves around solo player complaints in a co-op based game mode. If that's the case then please, continue.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

On 2020-01-01 at 9:21 PM, fish_wet said:

Hehe, I would add that greed is even worse. Micro transactions and all.... 

Btw , player base as of lately is not doing so good at all. Not sure if you encountered this guy, has some interesting stuff on the matter :

P.S this as someone pointed out that DE is doing fine , just due to the fact that they had a lot of sales lately - platinum steam status

 

Yeah greed is definitely #1.

[Teridax68]

20 hours ago, Elenortirie said:

except, we did not - we used particle ram to deal with fighters, and slinghshotted or way to the crewships - I don't think we had used AW for anything real in there. Kinda bad that I don;t have my recording capable PC at hand I'd record that run and post in on YT for easy reference xD

 

as for boarding - yeah the most efficient way of dealing with crewships regardless of your upgrades to rj is to board it.

This is all nice, but didn't stop DE from implementing massive rebalances that all have decreased time to kill enemies -- and this is apparently just the beginning.

8 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Soooo....so, what do you call endo and dirac? What happens when you scrap a built weapon? Can you not sell or trade those weapons? Are you suggesting a co-op based game mode is too difficult in the beginning without rare gear? Perhaps your issue still revolves around solo player complaints in a co-op based game mode. If that's the case then please, continue.

Dirac merely adds another progression gate, though, so it is the opposite of a compensatory system, whereas the complaints made against Railjack clearly did not just come from solo players (I also fail to see which part of my posts gave the impression I was talking about solo play). This is why DE is hotfixing the living daylights out of the mode as we speak. Once again, you are attempting to misrepresent the issue at hand, and denying a problem the developers have already begun addressing.

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

He/she isnt misunderstanding anything since you claim Vidar Reactor or well 100 bonus capacity is needed to do anything or get even near efficient results. He/she is saying they did it with a stock railjack and it took barely longer. That means, that just as I say, a Sigma MK3 is more than enough to clear the content efficiently and that Vidar is for min-max purposes only. Not that a Vidar reactor will actually improve your clear efficency notably because +50 capactiy lets you slot everything you need. A Vidar will let you cram out maybe 10% more total damage from your build if you already have the right avionics equipped with cheaper versions. 10% damage versus the already fragile fighters is utterly pointless because either your cryo will blow them up in 1 hit already or your carcinnox will need a second more sustained fire. And DE changing it is just another step where DE listens to some that arent even prepared to enter the content they complain about, or grasp the synergy between guns and mods. Those people that have trouble now wont see a difference because we are talking about armor getting removed from vessels that already die fast, even without abuse of frame buffs. If there is no bugged out healing orb in play, those Veil ships are already dead from a harsh sneeze.

Again, this is just more whining about how your invented, unsubstantiated arguments are themselves invalidated by DE taking justified action in the face of consistent feedback. You keep repeating yourself, yet are no less wrong for it.

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I didnt invent anything, I got everything I needed in the timespan of 2 weeks. I can still perfect the build by min-maxing, but it isnt needed. You have real issues with words such as promise, invent, lies and facts. Also, a big favor from me to you. Overshadowed by what shear amount of players? You mean all those that actually play the mode and perform well in pugs even with fairly basic RJs? Or the shear amount that complain and havent even tried the mode properly. Also, devoted content creators, lol. They are usually some of the worst players out there if they cant follow a cookie cutter build invented by someone else. I'm winning the contest because I play the mode with others that can handle it without needing a min-maxed specific item they obsess about.

I don't think I'm the one who struggles with the meaning of words when you seem to routinely fail to grasp that simply saying something does not automatically make it true. Not only are you almost certainly lying in this invented narrative you have no evidence to support, your narrative is not even relevant in the face of overwhelming feedback and subsequent action from the devs. Disparaging swathes of players on your perception on their skill itself not only fails to carry any relevance to the  argument (contrarily to what you may believe, it doesn't actually invalidate their opinion), it just further highlights how sore a loser you are in this argument.

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also no, those are very much seperate because they arent part of the things you normaly do except at the entry level i.e when you hit max level and just want to get through the season chores for the first free set. That first free set that lets you start the grind for min-maxing, that first free guaranteed set that is the equal to a sigma mk3 here, to let you start the grind to get the best possible loadout. Just as primals arent needed to start the push, the vidar reactor isnt needed to clear the veil efficiently to farm for the very thing you want handed on a silver platter. Also, please for the love of all things unholy, read man, read! I said using the cube on the wrong item is gimping your spec, like equipping the max rolled item that was actually intended for the cube while cubing the low rolled item that was intended to actually be equipped for your build. That is gimping your build. Also, where are those "most" people. I see more supporting my view by providing their own input based on their own experiences.

You're literally just repeating the same wrong arguments again. I fail to see what you hope to achieve here, as you've already been disproven above. As for "most" people... just look at the forums. Or DE's response in the form of hotfixes, which you yourself have acknowledged with profound saltiness.

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Of course it has alot to be fixed. I'm arguing 1 very specific thing that you are 100% wrong about, namely the Vidar Reactor. But I guess for someone like you who is so obsessed with a single item it would seem like I'm saying no fixes are needed at all. Which is the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying one simple thing, Vidar Reactor isnt needed to complete anything or in order to be efficient, since yor dojo has (hopefully) access to Sigma MK3 and Zetki drops in piles. I'm also not mad at DE, I'm more disappointed because they act too quick on the "but mah damage!" outcries when it in reality is balanced when you have the proper gear i.e atleast full dojo mk3 gear. I dont think many of those that complain are even geared properly for veil to begin with, but it is easier to complain than play the mode. Most have likely rushed intrinsics to 7, which is really DEs fault for setting such a stupid (to say the least) requirement for a zone instead of having a "gear score" tied to their new MK tiers. They should have probably had both, 7 intrinsics for crewmen to sign up, full MK2 for hosts. Also, if I was legitimately mad you are implying that you actually agree with me since you say my anger would be legitimate i.e justified.

This is interesting, because just a few posts ago you tried to pretend that Railjack had no technical issues. Also, speaking of not understanding the meaning of words, "legitimately mad" means that your anger here isn't minor or feigned: you appear to be genuinely angry at a video game developer improving a game and listening to feedback, and so only because you personally tried yelling over people as loud as possible to prevent their feedback from being heard, like a chihuaha barking at a lion. Again, attacking the person of the players who have given this feedback (even as you try to deny their existence in other paragraphs) only further highlights just how worthless your own argumentation is, and what your true intentions are in this discussion.

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Where? In the game, playing the mode instead of complaining over content that they've never done. You've still dodged that question since the start, how far along are you in RJ?

Again, where? You are the one dodging the question here, as I am asking you to substantiate your claim that most players agree with you with evidence. Given the contents of the forums and DE's own response, you are clearly wrong, so it will be interesting to see how you try to get out of this.

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It didnt come off as sarcasm, well the elite part did, not the handful comment. But, uhm, wait. So if you think I'm legitimately angry (which I'm not) and "handful" was sarcasm, then that means you actually agree with everything I've said since as I said earlier, you think my anger is justified and we obviously arent just a handful if your handful comment was sarcasm. Just as those that arent just a handful arent elite either. So the mode is cleared by many avarage players (me included). Or did you just happen to sprinkle your posts with big words?

It is impressive how you've managed to confuse yourself here with your own mental gymnastics. Putting aside how nothing you've just said makes any sense, "legitimately" is not exactly what I'd consider a "big word", though given your failure to understand its meaning in context, perhaps this is just a matter of perspective. I suggest you perhaps try paying more attention when reading posts and perhaps even consult a dictionary, particularly as your difficulty in parsing complete sentences seems to directly correlate with the frequency of you accusing me of not reading or understanding words. 

[Elenortirie]

1 minute ago, Teridax68 said:

This is all nice, but didn't stop DE from implementing massive rebalances that all have decreased time to kill enemies -- and this is apparently just the beginning.

hmmm I have no idea why that could be... totally not because GUNS of railjack (regardless of level) were not performing up to DE's expectations.... oh wait

[Teridax68]

1 minute ago, Elenortirie said:

hmmm I have no idea why that could be... totally not because GUNS of railjack (regardless of level) were not performing up to DE's expectations.... oh wait

... but it's the enemies that got their EHP nerfed, though?

[motorfirebox]

On 2019-12-29 at 5:21 AM, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

Or you could say they lied to their players. .. hoped to achieve lol  then don't call it a 2019 road map. .

You must be new here.

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

This is all nice, but didn't stop DE from implementing massive rebalances that all have decreased time to kill enemies -- and this is apparently just the beginning.

You should test it before saying too much about that because the same complainers are now complaining everything got worse. How long will you toot the "massive rebalance" flag as something positive before jumping the complainer wagon?

Two cannons were buffed, zetki house guns are still bad, cryo got slightly better versus some ships and worse against others. In the end it is all fairly the same as before, with the bonus that Photor is useful now and a good candidate for a gun. 

Ship armor got reduced while health got increased, this means that takis and cutters are slightly more fragile while Flak and other full alloy units are exactly as durable now as they were before and even more durable versus cryo that had its damage value decreased. Archguns perform the same, more armor or more health on the enemy didnt really matter in the end with the damage types available on archguns. So the massive changes really werent massive, they turned out to be about the same across the board except for a few guns that do better or worse than before.

[Teridax68]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

You should test it before saying too much about that because the same complainers are now complaining everything got worse. How long will you toot the "massive rebalance" flag as something positive before jumping the complainer wagon?

Where? Also how are things worse with enemy EHP reduced? I can completely agree with the criticism that this alone won't fix Railjack, but what you're claiming here is awfully vague and, in signature style, not backed up by even a single hint of a source.

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Two cannons were buffed, zetki house guns are still bad, cryo got slightly better versus some ships and worse against others. In the end it is all fairly the same as before, with the bonus that Photor is useful now and a good candidate for a gun. 

What was it you just said about testing stuff? Because time to kill has decreased significantly, without even needing to get into how the math proves you wrong as well. You are free to do it and see for yourself.

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Ship armor got reduced while health got increased, this means that takis and cutters are slightly more fragile while Flak and other full alloy units are exactly as durable now as they were before and even more durable versus cryo that had its damage value decreased. Archguns perform the same, more armor or more health on the enemy didnt really matter in the end with the damage types available on archguns. So the massive changes really werent massive, they turned out to be about the same across the board except for a few guns that do better or worse than before.

Again, you clearly didn't do the math; TTK has decreased across the board. Notice how we've gone from the original point of arguing about whether DE delivered honestly on their 2019 roadmap (they didn't), to you now trying to downplay the significant balance changes DE have made to Railjack in a manner I and many players had outlined before. Do you realize your own argumentation here only further underlines how badly you've lost this debate?

[SneakyErvin]

9 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Where? Also how are things worse with enemy EHP reduced? I can completely agree with the criticism that this alone won't fix Railjack, but what you're claiming here is awfully vague and, in signature style, not backed up by even a single hint of a source.

What was it you just said about testing stuff? Because time to kill has decreased significantly, without even needing to get into how the math proves you wrong as well. You are free to do it and see for yourself.

Again, you clearly didn't do the math; TTK has decreased across the board. Notice how we've gone from the original point of arguing about whether DE delivered honestly on their 2019 roadmap (they didn't), to you now trying to downplay the significant balance changes DE have made to Railjack in a manner I and many players had outlined before. Do you realize your own argumentation here only further underlines how badly you've lost this debate?

It didnt reduce EHP on anything but cutters and takis ships, those were already as fragile as they are now after the changes so there was no real noticable effect. The noticable TTK change came with seperate gun changes, like increased falloff and increased damage for photor and pulsar. But at the same time it also increased TTK for things like Cryo versus things where it was worth using, like versus Flak. If you need to find complaints, just look at the general discussion page. Some even tried to claim that the weapons were balanced with WF abilities in mind and that they are now useless since the WF abilties got nerfed and the damage and ehp changes werent enough to make up for it. When WF abilities were never even intended to be used with RJ guns in the first place. You also have one PS4 player complaining about what was in the patch notes and claiming it was massive nerfs even without having had a chance to try it all yet.

No it hasnt changed significantly, not based on the EHP changes atleast. The EHP changes are minimal. For instance, Flak lost 150 armor but it also gained 125 health. That means that it really only lost 25 armor, because it has a health pool that is alloy aswell. And the higher it comes up in the levels, the nerf will in reality turn into a buff for it and the elite version of it since the health scales higher than the armor. Leaving you with a higher armor in the end than prior to the "balance" pass. At max level (45) we are looking at less than 10% mitigation lost from armor on cutters and takis, on flak we are looking at less than 5% mitigation lost from the real armor, with the health scaling beyond that, effectively making those ships stronger than before. For outriders it is completely pointless, because no matter if they increase or decrease armor on those they still die the exact same due to weakpoint mechanics.

Please understand how different health types effect the outcome. Takis and Cutters are the only two that turned out less durable and in those cases it was pointless, that is because they have Robotic health, on Flak and others it was pointless since they have Alloy health or bound to weakpoint mechanics. This results in slighly weak versions of them on early earth, but more durable versions of them elsewhere when health starts to scale. The significant balance was that of the specific cannon changes, specifically photor which has resulted in all the cannons actually being strong and viable.

[Teridax68]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

It didnt reduce EHP on anything but cutters and takis ships, those were already as fragile as they are now after the changes so there was no real noticable effect. The noticable TTK change came with seperate gun changes, like increased falloff and increased damage for photor and pulsar. But at the same time it also increased TTK for things like Cryo versus things where it was worth using, like versus Flak. If you need to find complaints, just look at the general discussion page. Some even tried to claim that the weapons were balanced with WF abilities in mind and that they are now useless since the WF abilties got nerfed and the damage and ehp changes werent enough to make up for it. When WF abilities were never even intended to be used with RJ guns in the first place. You also have one PS4 player complaining about what was in the patch notes and claiming it was massive nerfs even without having had a chance to try it all yet.

No it hasnt changed significantly, not based on the EHP changes atleast. The EHP changes are minimal. For instance, Flak lost 150 armor but it also gained 125 health. That means that it really only lost 25 armor, because it has a health pool that is alloy aswell. And the higher it comes up in the levels, the nerf will in reality turn into a buff for it and the elite version of it since the health scales higher than the armor. Leaving you with a higher armor in the end than prior to the "balance" pass. At max level (45) we are looking at less than 10% mitigation lost from armor on cutters and takis, on flak we are looking at less than 5% mitigation lost from the real armor, with the health scaling beyond that, effectively making those ships stronger than before. For outriders it is completely pointless, because no matter if they increase or decrease armor on those they still die the exact same due to weakpoint mechanics.

Please understand how different health types effect the outcome. Takis and Cutters are the only two that turned out less durable and in those cases it was pointless, that is because they have Robotic health, on Flak and others it was pointless since they have Alloy health or bound to weakpoint mechanics. This results in slighly weak versions of them on early earth, but more durable versions of them elsewhere when health starts to scale. The significant balance was that of the specific cannon changes, specifically photor which has resulted in all the cannons actually being strong and viable.

I think you should take your own advice, as you don't seem to understand how armor scaling works and why it turns enemies into bullet sponges later in the game. Halving their armor is a big deal, not so much in the early game, but much more in the late game.

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I think you should take your own advice, as you don't seem to understand how armor scaling works and why it turns enemies into bullet sponges later in the game. Halving their armor is a big deal, not so much in the early game, but much more in the late game.

Except you miss my point. Cutters and Takis were already as fragile as things can get, the change made no difference on them. Flaks are treated as armor no matter if you hit their health only or have armor in the way since both are at the core alloy as a health class which makes it automatically work like an armor value, no matter if it is 150 armor or 150 hp. So it doesnt matter if the flak had 150 armor removed when 125 health was added because in the end the health will scale higher than the armor, so in the end the health will scale the active armor to a higher value that will result in it taking as long or longer to take it down. That is because you will need to take away chunks of health behind a higher armor value before you get to a point where the reduced actual armor first comes into play.

This is the same reason why people saw little difference from CP when fighting Flaks and other "heavy" ships earlier, because CP would remove 1k armor, yet the Flak would still be left with 10k alloy health, effectively having the equal to 10k armor which would slowly degrade the closer and closer it came to getting killed.

[Teridax68]

36 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Except you miss my point. Cutters and Takis were already as fragile as things can get, the change made no difference on them. Flaks are treated as armor no matter if you hit their health only or have armor in the way since both are at the core alloy as a health class which makes it automatically work like an armor value, no matter if it is 150 armor or 150 hp. So it doesnt matter if the flak had 150 armor removed when 125 health was added because in the end the health will scale higher than the armor, so in the end the health will scale the active armor to a higher value that will result in it taking as long or longer to take it down. That is because you will need to take away chunks of health behind a higher armor value before you get to a point where the reduced actual armor first comes into play.

This is the same reason why people saw little difference from CP when fighting Flaks and other "heavy" ships earlier, because CP would remove 1k armor, yet the Flak would still be left with 10k alloy health, effectively having the equal to 10k armor which would slowly degrade the closer and closer it came to getting killed.

It is impressive how you are trying to talk your way out of a mathematical fact. Also... that's not how armor works. I suggest you read how it works on the wiki.

[SneakyErvin]

25 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

It is impressive how you are trying to talk your way out of a mathematical fact. Also... that's not how armor works. I suggest you read how it works on the wiki.

It is how it works though for 2x alloy classes. There is only one type of alloy and when it applies to health it also still counts as armor. This was introduced with the Wolf and is also seen on Thumpers.

[Teridax68]

On 2020-01-10 at 6:20 PM, SneakyErvin said:

It is how it works though for 2x alloy classes. There is only one type of alloy and when it applies to health it also still counts as armor. This was introduced with the Wolf and is also seen on Thumpers.

Literally just read the part about how armor multiplies health.

EDIT: Oh, and here is another rather thorough exposé of how Railjack failed to live up to promise (and notice how the content creator also uses the word "promise"). I rest my case.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Teridax68