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Forma Change


-GrT-kostasp99
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I will be as brief as possible the forma system should be changed as following , my simple suggestion before i make it more complicated is that i wish i could put as many forma i want on a weapon or frame and the xp to max the weapon to 30 or 40 should be relevant to that forma count. Now you put one forma and you go and lvl the weapon and so on until you max the forma you want to put in it.
 

the choice i suggest is to put all the forma you want and then lvl the weapon and gather as much xp as you would when you put one by one. for a more practical example is that now you forma and you need 100.000 xp to max it and you do this again and again. the new system is you want to put 4 forma so 100.000x4 forma its 400.000xp to max it.  

This will be less time consuming for the players and better in result in the mission which you can use that weapon and do damage with having all the mods at once and so resulting in lvling that faster. the MR would be considered as well here.

its simple and effective and since the kuva weapons came out and you have to put 5 forma in each weapon and like 60 forma in all of them just for the MR xp , you should consider changing the system for some QOL change that has a meaning. 

another idea is that the MR lvl should reward the forma system as to give higher starter lvl to upgrade xp the weapon for  example if you are 20 mr the weapon would start at 5 lvl xp

 

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2 hours ago, -GrT-kostasp99 said:

I will be as brief as possible the forma system should be changed as following , my simple suggestion before i make it more complicated is that i wish i could put as many forma i want on a weapon or frame and the xp to max the weapon to 30 or 40 should be relevant to that forma count. Now you put one forma and you go and lvl the weapon and so on until you max the forma you want to put in it.
 

the choice i suggest is to put all the forma you want and then lvl the weapon and gather as much xp as you would when you put one by one. for a more practical example is that now you forma and you need 100.000 xp to max it and you do this again and again. the new system is you want to put 4 forma so 100.000x4 forma its 400.000xp to max it.  

This will be less time consuming for the players and better in result in the mission which you can use that weapon and do damage with having all the mods at once and so resulting in lvling that faster. the MR would be considered as well here.

its simple and effective and since the kuva weapons came out and you have to put 5 forma in each weapon and like 60 forma in all of them just for the MR xp , you should consider changing the system for some QOL change that has a meaning.

Not sure exactly what you are suggesting here but you want all weapons to be able to gain more max levels with more forma? If so, no...

2 hours ago, -GrT-kostasp99 said:

another idea is that the MR lvl should reward the forma system as to give higher starter lvl to upgrade xp the weapon for  example if you are 20 mr the weapon would start at 5 lvl xp

The current system allows for something far better than that as your Current MR defines how strong your new Weapon/Frame will start in terms of mod points. Example i am MR28 so my weapons start with 28 Points (56 with Catalyst).

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How about this - all gear in Warframe comes without the requirement to lvl it and you can just use Forma to add polarities without re-lvling shenanigans.

The concept with lvls and collecting Exp to rank up weapon is intended to increase playtime and it was usefull in early days, as there was not enough content or weapons to beginn with. Today, those lvls make no sense at all, especially on Frames who cannot even use abilities; or for high MR players, who just bypass the whole capacity limit.
The only players affected by the lvl system are newbies, who not only start without mods but also suffer from slow lvling process, since they do not know meta Exp caves yet. This initial ranking up experience in combination with Arsenal filled with hundreds of weapons could appear intimidating and off putting.

Long story short, weapon lvls make little sense in Warframe today; are only perceived by newcomers and may even contribute to a terrible New Player Experience.

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8 hours ago, ShortCat said:

How about this - all gear in Warframe comes without the requirement to lvl it and you can just use Forma to add polarities without re-lvling shenanigans.

You're joking right?

This has the be the most insane request I've seen yet. You would be undermining hundreds of hours of Affinity for most players. Likewise, the system would become completely shallow and uninteresting.

You should have to invest time into an item to maximize its potential to your liking. The "new player's experience" argument doesn't apply here. Warframe's already shaky progression shouldn't become a joke because people don't want to put a little work into their account.

Installing Forma is fine the way it is, and it really isn't that bad. I made a spreadsheet for myself and installed Forma for everything in the game. It took only 3 months, and that was doing way more than necessary.

Edited by Voltage
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3 hours ago, Voltage said:

You would be undermining hundreds of hours of Affinity for most players. Likewise, the system would become completely shallow and uninteresting.

You should have to invest time into an item to maximize its potential to your liking. The "new player's experience" argument doesn't apply here. Warframe's already shaky progression shouldn't become a joke because people don't want to put a little work into their account.

What is there to undermine? Are you trying to give the Hema excuse as "it would be unfair to people before..." here? What exactly is interesting in getting a weapon on a new account and not be able to put even one mod in it? How is softlocking Warframe's core systems - modding- interesting? Gear lvl system brings nothing to the game at this point and it never had any depth in the first place. I do not see how playing extra missions with an inferior weapon can somehow teach players anything, especaily since people just jump in ESO or other Exp caves and leech on shared Afinity. Is this the deffinition of "work" for you? It is just a pointless timesink.

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Honestly, I think Forma is fine by and large. It's meant to represent a player's dedication to a select group of their favourite/best gear.

What I really want is for forma to be able to stack within slots, rather than each forma effectively carving a deeper niche for your gear. Effectively, I mean the ability to spend 2 forma on the same slot, so that it's polarised for V and D at the same time, for example.

Now we've got Aura forma, which I feel could comfortably coexist since it's only applicable to auras and having free choice in auras can impede squad gameplay.

It just means if you LOVE a frame but also love having radically different experimental builds (like valkyr built for endless Hysteria vs valkyr built for Eternal War), you can put 3-4 extra forma into them to give you those extra options. It'd mean that no forma is ever really 'wasted' by having to undo something, since it would always keep your options open.

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all i proposed is that changing the forma system so you can put all forma at once and not going back and forth in mission. one time you put all the forma and you lvl the weapon but this time you will need more xp to upgrade it, the same amount as the 4 times you did in the old system.

one weapon needs 450,000 xp to be full rank and when you put one forma you need another 450k and so on. when you forma the weapon once with 4 forma polarities you will need 4x450.000 if you put 5 forma you will need 5x450.000 and so on. BUT all at one time and not going back and forth on missions or eso or anything.

its simple change and dont affect the game , doesnt change anything , doesnt need too much work and doesnt ruin the game. its just a QOL quality of life change and that is all.

its not a change in the system or the game , its just a change for the players that have spent over 1000 hours in the game. i have forma more than 150 weapons cause i try new things and now with the kuva leeches i have to put 5 forma in all the weapons one by one , one by one, its tidious and time consuming. 

ONE TIME ALL FORMA ALL XP

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On 2020-01-14 at 2:42 AM, ShortCat said:

How about this - all gear in Warframe comes without the requirement to lvl it and you can just use Forma to add polarities without re-lvling shenanigans.

So how would mastery work?
How would there be any progression at all?

I mean you're basically saying "Hey, lets remove any sense of progression completely! and replace it with absolutely nothing!  Surely that's the best thing for a game!"

What would replace the leveling to provide a sense of progression and improving?

It would make the system far duller and more boring to go "Whelp here's what it is, it never gets better, and you won't get more options as you progress since there is no progression!"

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2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

So how would mastery work?

There could be a requirement to kill X enemies, or score X headshots or finish X missions etc. The weapon just has 30 capacity from the get go.

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

How would there be any progression at all?

I mean you're basically saying "Hey, lets remove any sense of progression completely! and replace it with absolutely nothing!  Surely that's the best thing for a game!"

What would replace the leveling to provide a sense of progression and improving?

There is no progression in lvling system though or at least I do not see any. How does starting capacity of 30 (without potato) affect your interaction with a weapon, especially if you only aim only for mastery points?

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On 2020-01-14 at 5:42 PM, ShortCat said:

How about this - all gear in Warframe comes without the requirement to lvl it and you can just use Forma to add polarities without re-lvling shenanigans.

The concept with lvls and collecting Exp to rank up weapon is intended to increase playtime and it was usefull in early days, as there was not enough content or weapons to beginn with. Today, those lvls make no sense at all, especially on Frames who cannot even use abilities; or for high MR players, who just bypass the whole capacity limit.
The only players affected by the lvl system are newbies, who not only start without mods but also suffer from slow lvling process, since they do not know meta Exp caves yet. This initial ranking up experience in combination with Arsenal filled with hundreds of weapons could appear intimidating and off putting.

Long story short, weapon lvls make little sense in Warframe today; are only perceived by newcomers and may even contribute to a terrible New Player Experience.

It takes 2 minutes in ESO or 10 minutes on hydron (both with affinity booster) to max a gun. It also incentives higher mr, and actually makes you work to get that new weapon working. It can be daunting, but the grind to get the forma way outpaces the grind to put it on the gun.

It would also make affinity boosters useless, anything like hydron useless, ect. DE will never do this, for obvious reasons

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On 2020-01-14 at 10:42 AM, ShortCat said:

How about this - all gear in Warframe comes without the requirement to lvl it and you can just use Forma to add polarities without re-lvling shenanigans.

I suggest then that we also remove all the resources. You just go to the foundry, click on the forma (you won't need a blueprint for this either) and get a forma. Actually, I think it would be better if when you get a new piece of gear, it actually comes with an universal forma on each slot (one that takes the polarity of the mod you put). And to get a mod, you just need to select it from the mod list and equip it. It will also be maxed, of course.

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12 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

I suggest then that we also remove all the resources. You just go to the foundry, click on the forma (you won't need a blueprint for this either) and get a forma. Actually, I think it would be better if when you get a new piece of gear, it actually comes with an universal forma on each slot (one that takes the polarity of the mod you put). And to get a mod, you just need to select it from the mod list and equip it. It will also be maxed, of course.

You forget that you still need to click craft on the weapon, you still need Endo to take up mods, and heck you even need mods in the first place. I should be able to type the damage amounts I want into chat, and they get added onto my gun.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)DA ZACHYZACHY said:

You forget that you still need to click craft on the weapon, you still need Endo to take up mods, and heck you even need mods in the first place. I should be able to type the damage amounts I want into chat, and they get added onto my gun.

Dude!!!! The mods are maxed already! You just select them from the list that has all of them and get added to the gun maxed.

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Just now, (XB1)DA ZACHYZACHY said:

But why should I have to select them, DE is really putting in needless grind walls for the sake of it I see.

Too much effort, I see your point. How about this? We have 1 weapon of each type. It already does 10 trillion damage per hit, so technically it one hits every single thing (including bosses with invulnerability periods). So basically, you don't need to even make a build. Just select the weapon and it's ready to kill every single enemy in the game with one hit.

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Just now, (NSW)Belaptir said:

Too much effort, I see your point. How about this? We have 1 weapon of each type. It already does 10 trillion damage per hit, so technically it one hits every single thing (including bosses with invulnerability periods). So basically, you don't need to even make a build. Just select the weapon and it's ready to kill every single enemy in the game with one hit.

Too hard, I just think this game is beyond repair.

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Am 15.1.2020 um 20:10 schrieb ShortCat:

There could be a requirement to kill X enemies, or score X headshots or finish X missions etc. The weapon just has 30 capacity from the get go.

There is no progression in lvling system though or at least I do not see any. How does starting capacity of 30 (without potato) affect your interaction with a weapon, especially if you only aim only for mastery points?

Sry but a System that give you MR based on fix tasks, is just bad, becourse it forces you to play exactly like you told. Thats not how a game should be. There should be a lot of different ways to achieve a gole or you create a fast burn out. 

The Level System of Frames and Weapons relating to MR give you something to progress in warframe and you can progress by playing the game in all the various ways the game offers you. Sure a new player need longer to max a weapon, but a new player also got a lot more to dicover, and the journey from low mr to veteran is what keeps you playing.

 

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3 hours ago, (XB1)DA ZACHYZACHY said:

It takes 2 minutes in ESO or 10 minutes on hydron (both with affinity booster) to max a gun. It also incentives higher mr, and actually makes you work to get that new weapon working. It can be daunting, but the grind to get the forma way outpaces the grind to put it on the gun.

Thanks for making my points for me. The text in red underlines how pointless the lvl system is. The text in green underlines how screwed new players are.

2 hours ago, woisen said:

Sry but a System that give you MR based on fix tasks, is just bad, becourse it forces you to play exactly like you told. Thats not how a game should be. There should be a lot of different ways to achieve a gole or you create a fast burn out. 

The Level System of Frames and Weapons relating to MR give you something to progress in warframe and you can progress by playing the game in all the various ways the game offers you. Sure a new player need longer to max a weapon, but a new player also got a lot more to dicover, and the journey from low mr to veteran is what keeps you playing.

This is very noble, but also pretentious from you. I am sure you "played" the game and "progressed in all the various ways the game offers" with all that maxed gear with only couple of kills done. More like passive lvling or ESO leeching, because that's how a "journey from low MR to a veteran" should be.

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9 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Thanks for making my points for me. The text in red underlines how pointless the lvl system is. The text in green underlines how screwed new players are.

This is very noble, but also pretentious from you. I am sure you "played" the game and "progressed in all the various ways the game offers" with all that maxed gear with only couple of kills done. More like passive lvling or ESO leeching, because that's how a "journey from low MR to a veteran" should be.

Low mr players aren’t #*!%ed at all, it just takes time.

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On 2020-01-14 at 4:28 PM, Xarteros said:

What I really want is for forma to be able to stack within slots, rather than each forma effectively carving a deeper niche for your gear. Effectively, I mean the ability to spend 2 forma on the same slot, so that it's polarised for V and D at the same time, for example.

This. This is exactly what I want to see in terms of if they changed the Forma system. I'd have literally no other requests after that.

Edited by (NSW)MasterJ93
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On 2020-01-15 at 5:28 AM, Xarteros said:

What I really want is for forma to be able to stack within slots, rather than each forma effectively carving a deeper niche for your gear. Effectively, I mean the ability to spend 2 forma on the same slot, so that it's polarised for V and D at the same time, for example.

It would fundamentally ruin the mod system for me. A firms is supposed to be both a buff and a curse, it’s supposed to be thought about BEFORE you put it on.

It adds a niche for sure, but with how our kids work it doesn’t restrict you in any way beyond that you have to use your mind and not put 8 D’s on your gun.

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On 2020-01-13 at 1:31 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

The current system allows for something far better than that as your Current MR defines how strong your new Weapon/Frame will start in terms of mod points. Example i am MR28 so my weapons start with 28 Points (56 with Catalyst).

Does this mean if I build a weapon at MR 1, and then build that same weapon at MR 10, it will be that much more powerful and have that many more mod points to begin with? Can we keep doing this?

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1 hour ago, TwoWolves said:

Does this mean if I build a weapon at MR 1, and then build that same weapon at MR 10, it will be that much more powerful and have that many more mod points to begin with? Can we keep doing this?

No. It means when you have a weapon at level 0 (that is, just crafted or just forma'd) the amount of initial mod capacity it will have will depend on your MR. So when you craft a weapon at MR1, that weapon starts with 1/30 (2/60 with catalyzer) mod capacity for you to use. But if you craft the weapon when at MR10, it will start with 10/30 (20/60 with cat.) mod capacity.

Edited by (NSW)Belaptir
Math's are hard.
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32 minutes ago, TwoWolves said:

Does this mean if I build a weapon at MR 1, and then build that same weapon at MR 10, it will be that much more powerful and have that many more mod points to begin with? Can we keep doing this?

What?

As your MR goes up, your starting (lvl 0) capacity goes up. At MR 10 you start with 10 capacity, when you go into a mission to level it you don’t gain capacity until your guns level is over that of your MR Rank. So at Mastery Rank 10:

Gun Level - Capacity

0 - 10

1 - 10

2 - 10

3 - 10

4 - 10

5 - 10

6 - 10 

7 - 10

8 - 10

9 - 10

10 - 10

11 - 11 (your gun level surpasses your MR, and this your mod capacity starts going up)

It only effects levelling, nothing once your gun is max. Just a handy boost.

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