We need a way to speed up Lich grind (ignoring the trading)

[Artekkor]

As someone who was on a quest for last couple of months to get specific guns of specific elementals i started to notice that i'm seriously getting burned out on Kuva Lich grinding.
It just takes way too long to take out a single Lich, especially if you are unlucky with random guessing of requiems (1/8 is a decent chance, but not quiet good enough). And when after that you create a new one and its a gun you just don't need it and your memory is still fresh on the grinding process and you realise that you have to do it again for no gain at all... The pain is real.

Basically, what i'm asking for, is a booster that doubles murmurs gained from thralls. A pure and simple murmur booster. Yes, i will pay plat for that. Please.

[Ham_Grenabe]

I can see a justification for regular resource boosters affecting them - they are a "mission-end reward," and you could just streeeeetch your interpretation to see them being like kuva or void traces. 

At the very least they're looking at ways to trim the grind and let you dump a garbage lich from time to time. Hope they get that out the door soon. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[kapn655321]

Perhaps DE should consider their player base more with these mechanics...

If there's something that can take 3 years to drop, then don't add it. These folks will beat themselves to death for Months to get a gun they'll be ultimately bored of in less than 50 hours.

Lich should come with a personal therapist to work out our fixations, or not at all.

[Artekkor]

6 минут назад, kapn655321 сказал:

Perhaps DE should consider their player base more with these mechanics...

If there's something that can take 3 years to drop, then don't add it. These folks will beat themselves to death for Months to get a gun they'll be ultimately bored of in less than 50 hours.

Lich should come with a personal therapist to work out our fixations, or not at all.

I think what's especially painful is that there is no other gain from current Kuva Lich system but guns. So if the gun is wrong - you just waste your time since there is nothing else that's worth gaining from current system. Convertion is useless and there is nothing else worth gaining from lich grind. They dont drop any unique mods, resources... There is nothing. Only the gun.
And further you progress with getting the guns that you need (right elementals, right bonus) the lesser and lesser the chance of getting the next one is.

First 5 guns were super fun to get. 6 through 11 was a mediocre experience. And now that there's only 2 left out of possible 13... Its just suffering.

[kapn655321]

Just now, Artekkor said:

I think what's especially painful is that there is no other gain from current Kuva Lich system but guns. So if the gun is wrong - you just waste your time since there is nothing else that's worth gaining from current system. Convertion is useless and there is nothing else worth gaining from lich grind. They dont drop any unique mods, resources... There is nothing. Only the gun.
And further you progress with getting the guns that you need (right elementals, right bonus) the lesser and lesser the chance of getting the next one is.

First 5 guns were super fun to get. 6 through 11 was a mediocre experience. And now that there's only 2 left out of possible 13... Its just suffering.

I agree it's a lack luster system. The good news is, the infrastructure is there to build on when they get through Duviri.. the bad news is people cannot help but interface with it until they've extracted every optimal drop of loot. ..which is like, dangerously obsessive, especially knowing the RNG and grind involved.

I saw that system and thought, "Neat, I can give myself an event style enemy that might drop a wacky gun.." everyone else seems to see it as, "Those things need to be in my inventory yesterday, and we're entitled to getting them all in perfect chosen states in a reasonable amount of time." It's kinda spooky.

I get the intent that DE had in mind, but the player base is just NOT EVEN REMOTELY in that headspace or perspective.. and so it's become this monstrous time-vampire rather than a little somethin'-somethin' on the back burner. Genuinely, when I said they should come with a therapist, I wasn't kidding. Their dialogue should address people's compulsive perfectionism and do better to address that perspective before it can get this outrageously unhealthy.

[Artekkor]

1 минуту назад, kapn655321 сказал:

"Those things need to be in my inventory yesterday, and we're entitled to getting them all in perfect chosen states in a reasonable amount of time."

I mean... Are they wrong? Warframe was always a game about grind. "Checklist - The Game" if you will. I think its fair to assume that the general, primary objective here to collect things. For MR points, if nothing else. And i always considered Warframe a game that manages this well, having grind in that perfect golden spot of not to quick, but not too long. And to be fair, i still stand by that statement.

The core issue of kuva lich system, however, is its' monorail track nature in the current state. Despite the fact that liches can spread across planets and control sectors and be anywhere anytime... You have to go to their "content island" as DE called it in order to interact with the system.
A lot of the burn-out would be avoided if we could do liches in the background while doing something else. The fissures, the sorties, the syndicate missions, you name it.

Hell, just the fissures alone would be enough...

[kapn655321]

Just now, Artekkor said:

"Checklist - The Game"

That is the aspect that speaks to some players, yes.

I never once felt the game was an obligatory collectathon as much as a sandbox I can choose whatever I like from.
Some people are climbing ladders for conquest.. other are curating a museum of accomplishments..
I'm just goofin' off with some dollar store action figures.

All of those aspects are catered to in some extent, but none are the predominant or required approach.
It's what we see in the game, that is what we play.

[kapn655321]

Side note, I'm all for them refining the grind. Players are still going to approach it in a way that is detrimental to their enjoyment, and that's a shortfall of the mechanics, and a result of them pandering to collectors. I think the difference is that people are taking it personal that they're putting themselves through the wood chipper to dust off their 100% trophy, and that there is more on the player's own isms, than on the devs.

Edited January 18, 2020 by kapn655321

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

divide 3rd murmur requirement by 2.  the last one is just  a slog  and all you're hoping for while farming murmurs is that the lich appears so you can trial and error it.

 

 

[Artekkor]

13 минут назад, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg сказал:

divide 3rd murmur requirement by 2.  the last one is just  a slog  and all you're hoping for while farming murmurs is that the lich appears so you can trial and error it.

 

 

Yeah, its the 3rd murmur that's the core point of content. 1st and 2nd are alright - they're done before you feel burned out, but the 3rd one just crushes your soul.

[EinheriarJudith]

37 minutes ago, Artekkor said:

Yeah, its the 3rd murmur that's the core point of content. 1st and 2nd are alright - they're done before you feel burned out, but the 3rd one just crushes your soul.

for me before i stopped interacting with the system it was the constant reduction of their rage on failed attempts until they reach lvl 5 along side the 3rd murmur.

[LazyKnight]

2 hours ago, Artekkor said:

And when after that you create a new one and its a gun you just don't need it and your memory is still fresh on the grinding process and you realise that you have to do it again for no gain at all... The pain is real.

Why not just take a break until DE fixes it? Is there any reason at all to persevere with the current system?

[Ham_Grenabe]

9 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

Why not just take a break until DE fixes it? Is there any reason at all to persevere with the current system?

That's my plan. I have a lich, but he's parked on Phobos and he'll stay there until something changes. I'll skip sorties / fissures / other Phobos missions for the time being. 

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, Artekkor said:

I mean... Are they wrong? Warframe was always a game about grind. "Checklist - The Game" if you will. I think its fair to assume that the general, primary objective here to collect things. For MR points, if nothing else. And i always considered Warframe a game that manages this well, having grind in that perfect golden spot of not to quick, but not too long. And to be fair, i still stand by that statement.

A typical grind game usually relies on builds or getting better stuff to hit harder against tougher content. Warframe literally hits that ceiling amazingly fast with requiring a chain of interactions such as Volt`s shield with shock trooper as an example of one frame that can multi-stack buff effects on itself without taking into account on Riven mods, Arcanes, Operator focus skills, armor reduction interactions like shattering impact, etc.

Plus a typical rng-sus game that deals with wildly random values, should NOT skip the important fact that said loot should just as be easily toss able as when one acquires them. Instant use and Instant scrap, Warframe contradicts this by using a `Refining approach` thru the process of modding, forma, potatoes and even build interactions on some ends to maximize how busted said weapon can be, Which is ultimately a b-slap design against looter based games. Especially since the existence of variants exist which further sheets on the concept of all the investment one put into a good weapon, only to toss it and then put that same investment again on a new shiny version of it.

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The core issue of kuva lich system, however, is its' monorail track nature in the current state.

The REAL issue is the fact D.E. rushed the fking content out without properly thinking over on the following attributes:

HOW did the lich came to be and why do they suddenly show up out of nowhere? The fact we did not get any type of contected plot such as the kuva queen(s) sending a `personal` invitation to us by having some huge grineer activity occur, which we then get a distress signal picked up and we end up fighting a tutorial lich which would not require the normal process to take down, but instead when we try to kill it, the lich would get back up and we would have to down it 3 times before we finally put a finisher on it.

The Grineer young queen could then mock us talking about making it a whole lot harder for us to handle the next one which could of then introduced the mods and other stuff.

A lack of a way to nudge us into what kind of content we can expect when we first do it is a way D.E. should of kept towards on plenty of content. Just like how the Glast Gambit could be considered a great introduction on what the Index is like.

 

Also, it helps as many people has stated that more then a damn gun was added to what we got. The fact D.E. could not Multiply the loot it had pilfered based on its rank, as in it was raiding other loot then just ours, is one of the few saving graces that could of allowed it to be more impressive. Especially if we could end up with large piles of relics in the 5 to 10 or even more based on other facts like how many times we failed to kill it and so on.

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Despite the fact that liches can spread across planets and control sectors and be anywhere anytime... You have to go to their "content island" as DE called it in order to interact with the system.

You can honestly say that with almost any content in existence for warframe at this point:

1. Open world has us forced to goto thar islands to collect thar special resources and standing, to get access to extremely broken stuff such as thar arcanes and modular weapons. But once those have been collected. No real reason exists to continue doing thar content except to chase after very particular relics which usually only show up when a new prime appears or the lucky chance they are put thar when an unvaulting happens. Which Eidolons themselves being a smaller island to open world namely as another burn out island cause everyone is just gravitated to speed running for as many clears as possible when honestly it needs to be changed to some kind of weekly cap of sorts to cut down on the tension for those and maybe some people will ease up on taking it more calmly, casually and be fine with taking newer players thru to actually teach them the damn fight then be over-dosing on red-bull and likely attempting to do 40~60+ tridolons a day.
2. Syndicates are honestly feel like a island in itself because of things like the syndicate missions and medallions and its simply some kind of double standard market where you buy stuff from them to resell them. Which typically has no respect to the very FIXED daily standing caps, which just like usual is a massive burn out since beyond that is just farming them for relic packs, aka Hoarde medallions each day just to blow them once every 3 months to GACHA for specific relics to `save time`. But besides that, not much exists to keep coming back to it besides a tedious grind and cleaning out excess standing since most people would keep a sigil on for the free`lo points. Not many benefits even exist for the massive grind to get to rank 5 in up to 3 syndicates besides having 3 other ones bullying you in missions and acting as a resell vendor for goods that some will demand for 3 to 7 plat and 10~15 plat if your lucky for the weapons. Which normally 10 plat for a 25k standing item and 40 plat for a 100k or more standing item should be the standard considering you need to be MR 26 or higher to get a single mod in a day without abusing syndicate missions and it can take 4 to 6 days just to get a single weapon.
3. Relic system in itself is a ridiculous grind itself that has encroached basically over half the loot tables on every reward table and it would be nice if it just freaking get tidied up condensed and modernized to rely on less stupid things like enemy corruption rates, drop rates for reactants, reliance on `slave members` to get more odds for better prime loot and forma farming, where it honestly needs to be condensed into a more proper state then a burn-out isle which can allow higher level players to have better odds to get rare stuff by doing a higher difficulty or have the option B. to just do alot of relic opening at once with maybe a lowered odds at rarer loot to balance things out. Plus lets not even forget about how void traces themselves is another island grind in itself just to island grind the relics, since you cant really do both of them at once since you have to burn traces that could take between 6~10 or more rotations, without counting boosters, just to radiant one relic.

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A lot of the burn-out would be avoided if we could do liches in the background while doing something else. The fissures, the sorties, the syndicate missions, you name it.

Hell, just the fissures alone would be enough...

Why do you think one of the most frustrating things on D.E.`s little so-called survey was Grinding? Alot of things could be easily resolved by putting the following things in:

1. Prevent `party bonuses` from positively or negatively affecting chasing after loot. Namely that regardless if we are solo or in a group, we should have the same result of clearing the mission regardless. instead, a bonus modifier could just be in place similar to how some online games give a bonus exp `party bonus`, things like fissure should just flat out give a bonus % void trace value on party size.
2. Have Deeper runs boost loot gains. Since any game that has scaling enemies. NEEDS to create a major WHY reason to do more then one `full rotation` of the loot table, because if the number of enemies are not increasing in dark sector maps or the odds to get rarer gains in things like arbitration, ESO, Fissures, Disruption and any other special game mode, then why the heck should we deal with tougher enemies with no tangible reason why to go deeper, when we can just reset instead?
3. If a new content must be introduced, it must provide loot and properly be linked towards main gameplay instead of being standalone. Namely i find it annoying that intrinsic do not provide benefits outside of railjack or the fact we cannot get to attach a orbital cannon to the railjack and can request support fire in open world maps with the things.

The same could be said on why i can`t get some actual boons with being max rank with syndicates such as how the regular ones i feel like i should get the right to phone in a `help squad` for an entire mission with units that really help, sort of like how i wish liches would not show up and then run off without warning.

Same could be applied on i feel Fortuna and Cetus could give extra perks for being higher rank besides more shop access, such as maybe discounts on items, extra loot from bounties or even bonus missions which can sometimes Konzu could put to the side for us, which we could do for guranteed specific loot(maybe even our own choice) or we could get tokens while doing bounties at max rank which we could exchange for very helpful items like built forma, potatoes or even exclusive ephemera and cosmetics in the design of those open world maps.

 

Anyway i could keep going on and on, but the point of my little ramble is that if D.E. is going to keep this ridiculous grind, more systems of boons needs to exist, the islands need to give useful loops that can feed into other gameplay and give a real reason to keep doing its content besides a stockholm syndrome that `pressures` us to keep farming it, But at the very least gives a coupe de grace goodie we can get and do our fare-well to that content till the need arises to return to it. But still most importantly, it would help if they start simplifying & modernizing all the fiascos and maybe condense alot of things, especially when plenty of it can even create massive headaches when D.E. suddenly introduces a dozen or so new resources and make a sheet show of it.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Avienas

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Players: We want content.

DE: You want grind?

Players: No, content! 

DE: And RNG?

Players: DE.

DE: Okay, here's a ridiculous amount of grind and RNG!

Players: Content... ;n;

I kid. But no seriously, Warframe has more than enough grind already, more, than, enough. And entirely too much RNG. They should really just entirely scrap the words being part of the relic system and replace that with something else and have 1, the words placed in your inventory by killing thralls and completely consumed when you kill your lich, and 2, have the weapon decided by the weapons you have equipped as the element is decided by the frame. I don't mind having to do a whole bunch of missions and then guess  out the order of the words, but the relic system and not being able to choose what weapon im working for are the two things too many on this process. At the very least I should be able to just pay off my lich to gtfo, maybe 100k credits just to not have to deal with the one that dropped. 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

I will ignore your Alibi in Title. They are already tons of Converted Leaches lying in players Inventories, if their owners make decision to give away them probably most everyone will be done with Leach system, unfortunately it’s near impossible in game where Greed rules.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

Well I got 6/7 ephemeras while a buddy of mine has 0/7 and he farmed for like 2x the amount of liches. He is pretty mad and gave up on farming for anymore liches. Would’ve traded him my ephemeras but I couldn’t find where it explains how till after the update for consoles that added the trade system.